AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Don't need UMD? Tumble simply being "wouldn't hurt"!?

My personal favorite is the 28 druid/1 rogue/1 ranger. You don't net evasion but you'll survive.

Quote:

So you're suggesting that there may be a significant boost in abilities between level 28-29-30 for the companion? Can anyone confirm?

No one can confirm this because it's not done. In my eminent opinion, it is unlikely but there is no one that could tell you for sure because it's no done yet.

And even if I knew? You're not a tester or a dev. Not your business until it's released.

No, there shouldn't be any humungous gap. The companions follow the 'Good-Better-The Best' principle and pureclassing isn't the best option in most cases even though it may be the prettiest. So if you want the toughest badass summon, you take Druid30.

My previous eminent opinion, Opustus, was based on the fact that in the past (winterwight excepted but I believe this an oversighT) abilities tended to not scale dramatically past 28 so that +2 ECL races were not by default locked out of the highest tiers of content, and that significant power jumps in those levels could cause imbalance.

TormakSaber wrote:

Don't need UMD? Tumble simply being "wouldn't hurt"!?

My personal favorite is the 28 druid/1 rogue/1 ranger. You don't net evasion but you'll survive.

Quote:

So you're suggesting that there may be a significant boost in abilities between level 28-29-30 for the companion? Can anyone confirm?

No one can confirm this because it's not done. In my eminent opinion, it is unlikely but there is no one that could tell you for sure because it's no done yet.

And even if I knew? You're not a tester or a dev. Not your business until it's released.

You're making it sound like something is being considered, just not put down on paper yet.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

No, there shouldn't be any humungous gap. The companions follow the 'Good-Better-The Best' principle and pureclassing isn't the best option in most cases even though it may be the prettiest. So if you want the toughest badass summon, you take Druid30.

So, if I understand right, you're saying that I should go for level 30 simply for the sake of having a better summon, not because it would dramatically change anything.
And if I don't care for that then multiclassing would have no significant downsides?

Druid28/Rogue1/Ranger1 is by far the best way to go. I'm not saying you should go anything, I'm just stating the obvious that a level 30 companion is better than the 28 one, but not enough to make pureclassing quite worth it. Especially when compared to what you get in trade: UMD, Discipline, Spot, Tumble, slurp.

Okay, here's the revised build.

===

Ffolk

STR 11/10
DEX 12
CON 9/10
INT 15/14
WIS 17/18 (26)
CHA 9

33 Animal Empathy
33 Concentration
33 Spellcraft
32 Hide
32 Move Silently
30 Tumble
26 Discipline
16 UMD (not sure about this)

1 DRU Expertise, Extend Spell
2 DRU
3 DRU Combat Casting (?)
4 DRU
5 DRU
6 DRU Toughness (?)
7 DRU
8 DRU
9 DRU Brew Potion
10 DRU
11 DRU
12 DRU Maximize Spell
12 DRU
13 DRU
14 DRU Spell Focus: Evocation/Conjuration (?)
15 DRU
16 DRU
17 DRU
18 DRU Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
19 DRU
20 DRU
21 DRU Epic Spell: Mummy Dust
22 DRU
23 DUR
24 DUR Epic Spell: Greater Ruin, Epic Spell Focus: Evocation (Druid Feat)
25 DUR
26 DUR
27 DUR Epic Spell: Dragon Knight (?)
28 ROG
29 RNG Improved Combat Casting (?)
30 DRU Epic Spell: Hellball, Great Wisdom (Druid Feat)

===

Taking Hide and MS over Spot or the like because it better fits my idea of a Druid who moves through the trees and observes, while the summons fight.
Not sure if Combat Casting and will be of any real use, was thinking of switching it with Spell Penetration, also didn't take Improved Expertise because I heard it auto-cancels when you cast a spell.
Not sure if it is worth getting EDK, but a dragon summon is always fun RP.
Opted to drop Heavy Armor, think it suits the character better to wear light armor.

Question: How come shifting into a Panther doesn't give you a boost to Hide and MS?

Improved Combat Casting and Combat Casting is a waste of feats.

I'd go:

Ffolk
11 Strength
11 Dex
18/19Wisdom
9/10 Con
14/13 Int
Cha 8

I'd pull down Spellcraft to 20, Animal Empathy to 20 and Move Silently to 20 to balance out the SP income.

Pre-Epic feats: Extend Spell, Silent Spell, Empower Spell, Spell Focus Conjuration, Spell Focus Evocation, Greater Spell Focus Conjuration, Greater Spell Focus Evocation, Brew Potion.

Epic Feats: Armor Skin, Epic Fort, Epic Skill Focus Discipline, Epic Spell Mummy Dust
Druid Bonus: Epic Spell Greater Ruin, Epic Spell Focus Evocation
Ranger: Epic Spell Focus Conjuration

Hellball doesn't fit in with Druid nor does EDK in my opinion but thats your decision.

Always figured Hellball would be a better choice because it's supposed to deal multiple elemental damage, but Greater Ruin just deals straight up damage.

PnP: You deal 10d6 each of acid, fire, electricity, and sonic damage; you take 10d6.
NWN: The caster creates a ball of energy that does 10d6 points of acid, fire, electrical and sonic damage to all targets in its blast radius.

And Greater Ruin.

PnP: Object or target takes 35d6 damage.
NWN: The caster deals 35d6 positive energy damage to a single target.

Dropping Combat Casting, Toughness and Expertise for better spell focus I get, but why Empower Spell over Maximize spell?
Also wouldn't focus in Conjuration be kind of a waste without EDK? Better to get Spell Penetration no? And why 11 DEX and 13 INT as opposed to 12 INT and 12 DEX or something?

The epic feats seem more focused to defend against Dev Critters, think he'd be dead from the damage alone nevermind the KD. Problem with the epic feats tho, is that you can't take Epic Spells from a Druid's bonus feat list.

Quote:

NWN: The caster creates a ball of energy that does 10d6 points of acid, fire, electrical and sonic damage to all targets in its blast radius.

In Amia it's 20d6 pos, 20d6 neg, 10d6 fire.

because Amia and base barbarians seem too different i want to clarify a few things first

if you have unyielding rage or ferocity attack and get mighty rage do all the effects stack?

+1 Regeneration per 4 Barbarian levels.
+1 Dodge AC per 6 Barbarian levels, capped at +4 AC.
+1 Fortitude save per 8 Barbarian levels, capped at +3.
+1 Will save per 8 Barbarian levels, capped at +3.
+1 Reflex save per 8 Barbarian levels, capped at +3.
+3 Hit Points per Barbarian level.
+1 AB per 8 Barbarian levels, capped at +3.

* +1 Universal Saves/7 Barbarian Levels (21 Barb will net +3 28 will net +4)
* +5 Vampiric Regen
* +10 Bonus HP/Barbarian Level.

so at level 24
+6 on saves
+13 health/level (312)

Mighty stacks with the rest, yes.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

NWN: The caster creates a ball of energy that does 10d6 points of acid, fire, electrical and sonic damage to all targets in its blast radius.

In Amia it's 20d6 pos, 20d6 neg, 10d6 fire.

Well that kind puts a damper on it..hmm.

SLS wrote:

Blah blah blah.

Whoops keep forgetting about the epic spell feats.

I didn't even calculate the abilities properly

11STR (10)
14DEX
11CON (12)
17WIS (18)
13INT (12)
8 CHA

The reason for epic conjuration is because there are decent conj spells (stonehold, SoV etc) available to a druid.

Drop epic discipline for greater ruin.

Take Great Wisdom in the vacant druid bonus slot.

Epic Fort isn't only for the bonus against dev crit its against fort based spells such as implosion.

14 DEX is high enough to buff your dex stat to 26 (8 Modifier) and take advantage of padded armor.

Hmm, well I like about half the ideas, I'm thinking EDK would be nice to have with Spell Focus: Conjuration line, since it's supposed to extend the duration right?
I'll tweak my build with your suggestions and see what comes up, thanks Chris.

Okay here's the build, feel free to tell me how much it sucks.

Ffolk

20 Druid/1 Rogue/1 Ranger

STR 11/10
DEX 12
CON 9/10
INT 15/14
WIS 17/18 (26)
CHA 9

33 Animal Empathy
33 Concentration
33 Spellcraft
32 Hide
32 Move Silently
30 Tumble
26 Discipline
16 UMD (not sure about this)

1 DRU Brew Potion, Extend Spell
2 DRU
3 DRU Silent Spell
4 DRU
5 DRU
6 DRU Spell Focus: Conjuration
7 DRU
8 DRU
9 DRU Spell Focus: Evocation
10 DRU
11 DRU
12 DRU Maximize Spell
12 DRU
13 DRU
14 DRU Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
15 DRU
16 DRU
17 DRU
18 DRU Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
19 DRU
20 DRU
21 DRU Epic Spell: Mummy Dust
22 DRU
23 DUR
24 DUR Epic Spell: Greater Ruin, Epic Spell Focus: Evocation (Druid Feat)
25 DUR
26 DUR
27 DUR Epic Spell: Dragon Knight (?)
28 ROG
29 RNG Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration (?)
30 DRU Epic Spell: Hellball, Great Wisdom (Druid Feat)

Last edited by Jan Busta on Sat, Feb 12 2011, 12:01 PM, edited 1 time in total.

divine power question. Does it gave 4 Attacks per round, as well as fighter AB? I tried it in my build mod and i don't know if there was a bug, but the pc stayed at 3 attacks per rond

Jan Busta wrote:

divine power question. Does it gave 4 Attacks per round, as well as fighter AB?

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=23225&p=644297#p644297

kay. thanks for that. shold have looked there myself

I am going to assume that my build is either so awesome that people have nothing more to say, or that it's so awful that people can't stop laughing.

...OR, that you posted it 6 hours ago, and people are actually PLAYING THE GAME. :twisted:

Can the Blackguards Corrupt weapon and unholy sword be applied to unarmed strike or must you have a weapon in hand?

UMD question:

What's the most expensive item on the server, in relation to UMD?
Or, even, what's the commonly agreed upon UMD amount to max at?

And I was just thinking, should we add a FAQ to the OP of each of these threads? I have a feeling my questions, and many others, get asked a bunch. Figure the basic questions could probably be put up in the OP to save some time from answering them. Maybe?

Naivatkal wrote:

What's the most expensive item on the server, in relation to UMD?
Or, even, what's the commonly agreed upon UMD amount to max at?

30 will let you use any gear on the server.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

What's the most expensive item on the server, in relation to UMD?
Or, even, what's the commonly agreed upon UMD amount to max at?

30 will let you use any gear on the server.

And remember this is after Cha mod.

Oh yessum, though in my case there is none lol
So 30, huh? That's what I thought I heard/read.

Hello, can somebody tell me if the monk feat still stack with the dragon shape feat?

I seem to remember it was disabled, but I haven't played this server for years.

Thanks!

Don't quote me, but I think it's just the UBAB progression and Flurry of Blows that transfers into shapes. By the way, I hate dragonmonks.

There a filthy cheese build don't get me wrong, I'm just curious. Couldn't find any posts about it on here!

AIexander of SaIandran wrote:

Hello, can somebody tell me if the monk feat still stack with the dragon shape feat

Quote:

A Monk's Wisdom Bonus to AC caps at 1 per monk level. Example: A level 5 monk with 30 wisdom (+10 modifier) only recieves 5 Wisdom AC. When they level to level 6, they will recieve +1 more wisdom AC, up to their full Wisdom modifier. Monk Wisdom AC does not apply in any Polymorphed form.

SLS wrote:

I am going to assume that my build is either so awesome that people have nothing more to say, or that it's so awful that people can't stop laughing.

Sure, looks perfectly all right except for one wee peeve. The fact you've maxed Hide and MS before Discipline and UMD.

You will never reach the 100+ grounds, which most dedicated stealthers do, on a Druid. Not with those stats, not with those feats, not with all the other gear you'll need. A step further back from that is 50 for Hide and 40 for MS, because the highest non-spotter/listener you will ever have to confront have WIS 15 + 20 (+ 10 TS for Spot). This number of course varies depending on the race and whether there's a bard in the opposite team. Remember that you have plenty of lovely spells to help you up those numbers: Camouflage, Mass Camouflage, One With the Land, and the class feat Trackless Step. Sorry it took a while for me to answer, my computer was a bitch.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

SLS wrote:

I am going to assume that my build is either so awesome that people have nothing more to say, or that it's so awful that people can't stop laughing.

Sure, looks perfectly all right except for one wee peeve. The fact you've maxed Hide and MS before Discipline and UMD.

You will never reach the 100+ grounds, which most dedicated stealthers do, on a Druid. Not with those stats, not with those feats, not with all the other gear you'll need. A step further back from that is 50 for Hide and 40 for MS, because the highest non-spotter/listener you will ever have to confront have WIS 15 + 20 (+ 10 TS for Spot). This number of course varies depending on the race and whether there's a bard in the opposite team. Remember that you have plenty of lovely spells to help you up those numbers: Camouflage, Mass Camouflage, One With the Land, and the class feat Trackless Step. Sorry it took a while for me to answer, my computer was a bitch.

Not a problem, but what are you suggesting then? That I should lower/drop Hide and MS? I get that I'd loose out 10 from each for not taking Epic Skill Focus, but would that really kill the point of having stealth?

I am building two characters to play in Amia:

One is a male fighter. I am making him a cheesy weapon master, because the only way I can survive PvP is having a really good build to back my lack of knowledge. The second is a cleric of Sehanine Moonbow.

The first one is an improved edition of Alynne's build that I almost made right, and yes if I play with her again I will certainly got her build changed to this one I have now. And the second one I need help, since I suck at cleric build. This is what I got so far:

Andariel Dakath

Cleric of Sehanine Moonbow

Cleric 26, rogue at 27, two more clerics, ranger lvl 30

Domains: Travel and trickery
Weapon: longsword

Str 16 -> 20 with natural ability increases
Dex 8 – 10 with race bonus
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 16 -> 19 with natural ability increases -> 20 with a Great Wisdom feat from 23rd cleric's epic bonus feat
Cha 10

1) what to choose?
3) Extend Spell
6) Weapon Focus Longsword
9) Spell Focus in Conjuration
12) Maximize Spell
15) Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
18) Blind Fight
21: Epic spell focus (Conjuration)
23 [Cleric epic bonus feat]: Great Wisdom I
24: EDK or maybe something else… not sure
26 [Cleric epic bonus feat]: Armour skin
27: Epic Spell Focus (Greater Ruin)
28 [Epic ranger/fighter bonus feat]: Epic weapon focus (Longsword)
29: [Cleric Epic Bonus feat]: what to choose?
30: Not sure what I get here….

So, help?

Also, if possible help me to adapt it to a Human, Cleric of Ilmater, which main function in life is to heal. I need to make Angela more than a walking hospital protected in sanctuary 100% of the time, only healing and reviving people when in battle and such. All paladins already have good buffs, so she isn't very necessary in a group, so I want to make her more so.

Hmm, well it confuses me somewhat, 26 Cleric/1 Rogue/1 Ranger/Fighter? Why the Ranger/Fighter?
Get Silent Spell, same advice was given to me for my Cleric and it works wonders, gives you allot more Heal/Earthquake/Regeneration casts.

ranger or fighter.. But, I already chose ranger.

Advise taken.

Delarwyn wrote:

Domains: Travel and trickery

Trickery isn't a supported domain of Sehanine's. If you want to maximize your spot, I'd take knowledge(provides CC), otherwise, I'd take good domain. (Stoneskin can be useful)

On feats:
I'd shuffle blind fight to first. IMPR critical Longsword can go into L18. You may wish to consider grabbing KD as well.
You have ESF Conj, so I'd grab the dragon.
Clerics get bonus feats at L23, 26, and 29, you only get 28 levels, so with the ranger level (i'm assuming it's there for skill dumps), you get 3 bonus feats, plus the 4 you normally get. I'd grab:
21: ESF Conj
23*: G-Wisdom 1
24: Epic Dragon Knight
26*: Armor Skin
27: Epic Weapon Focus Longsword
30: ESF Spot (if you're taking spot anyways. Otherwise, I'd shuffle the feat from L27 here, and then grab epic mummy dust, it's a second epic summon and while you can't have both at once, it can be useful for extended dungeon crawling or as a backup in case the dragon drops.)
30*: Epic Prowess

Note that if you take the knowledge domain, ESF spot, and the skill dump, you can be a very hefty spotter: 33+5(wis)+10(ESF)+2(elf)+10(CC)+10(True sight) = 70, and that's before adding gear. This puts you a little tight on skills though, so you may wish to consider dropping 2 points somewhere to raise INT some. (CHA or CON?)

Totally get War domain for Cat's Grace and Aura of Vitality if you don't care to RP the domains, or Plant for Barkskin if you like.

Domains for Sehanine Moonbow: Chaos, Dream, Elf, Good, Illusion, Knowledge, Moon, Oracle, Repose, Travel, Trickery

They are not domains registered for Amia tho, so you won't get the benefits from prayer. Other then that it's all good.

Delarwyn wrote:

Domains for Sehanine Moonbow: Chaos, Dream, Elf, Good, Illusion, Knowledge, Moon, Oracle, Repose, Travel, Trickery

Domains for Sehanine Moonbow: Good, Knowledge, Travel.

http://www.amiaworld.net/about/deities.php

I stand corrected.

For now.

Take x domain because it's the best option and who cares about RP is pretty crappy advice, by the way. I'd go Good and Travel, if I were you. They're both decent, fit Sehanine fine and also mean you won't be yet another cleric with Barkskin, somehow.

SLS wrote:

Totally get War domain for Cat's Grace and Aura of Vitality if you don't care to RP the domains, or Plant for Barkskin if you like.

Get out.

Meh, I was just offering the advice I got, don't hate me for that.

Telling people to ignore RPing their domains is NOT advice on a roleplaying server. I don't care what thread you're in.

Whoever gave you that advice yourself should be ashamed of themselves. People like you are the reason domains deserve to be ENFORCED, because given the choice, you'll ignore and abuse.

It was a conditional, value-free statement: if X is desired and Y is the best way to achieve it, do Y. You know, the neutral viewpoint idealised in science among other things.

That said, I do think domains should be enforced if possible and you should never take something not supported by your god. Of course, it would also be nice to see more of them, especially now that downloads are no longer taboo.

If Y is ignoring RP on an RP server then no, you should not do "Y". I don't care how "Value-free" it is.

This isn't the place for your rhetoric.

Delarwyn wrote:

1) what to choose?
3) Extend Spell
6) Weapon Focus Longsword
9) Spell Focus in Conjuration
12) Maximize Spell
15) Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
18) Blind Fight
21: Epic spell focus (Conjuration)
23 [Cleric epic bonus feat]: Great Wisdom I
24: EDK or maybe something else… not sure
26 [Cleric epic bonus feat]: Armour skin
27: Epic Spell Focus (Greater Ruin)
28 [Epic ranger/fighter bonus feat]: Epic weapon focus (Longsword)
29: [Cleric Epic Bonus feat]: what to choose?
30: Not sure what I get here….

So, help?

Like was said, move Blind-Fight to the front and toss Imp Crit: Longsword in it's place. If the Dragon is part of your RP, go for it... but if it's not, I'd suggest going for MD instead and using the widget to change it to whatever type of creature would fit your RP. That dragon's fat ass tends to get stuck in certain places. Mummy Dust's longer natural duration can free you from your Spell Focus feats, if you like, and allow you to pick up things like KD and such.

For one of your undecided epic feats, remember that Epic Fort is always handy and can make piecing together your gear set a bit easier.

TormakSaber wrote:

If Y is ignoring RP on an RP server then no, you should not do "Y". I don't care how "Value-free" it is.

This isn't the place for your rhetoric.

Whatever. I should know better by now.

TormakSaber wrote:

Telling people to ignore RPing their domains is NOT advice on a roleplaying server. I don't care what thread you're in.

Whoever gave you that advice yourself should be ashamed of themselves. People like you are the reason domains deserve to be ENFORCED, because given the choice, you'll ignore and abuse.

Fair enough, I just noticed she(?) took Trickery Domain after Kobra pointed it out, and thought she wasn't intending to follow the domains because it wasn't listed with her Deity on this server, which is why I suggested what I did.
Wasn't till after she posted that I realized she had considered Trickery as an RP domain.

EDIT: And to clarify Sune, this :

SLS wrote:

They are not domains registered for Amia tho, so you won't get the benefits from prayer. Other then that it's all good.

Was directed to the post directly above, It's when I realized that she was using the domain list from the wiki and not just the Amia on. Was telling her that she could take those domains, but would not be able to get benefits from prayer.

go level 30 fighter. you'll be cool.

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