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SLS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 9:52 AM 

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So since my other thread got locked, was thinking of making my Druid a Ffolk. Since I don't know much about Druid RP I decided to start simple, and they have a tradition of being Druids.

So since they worship Jannath, and Jannath is an aspect of Chauntea, I can just set his deity as Chauntea and RP him worshiping Jannath?


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 10:23 AM 

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They worship Earthmother, who is (supposedly) a local aspect of Chauntea in the Moonshae. She's more wild than Chauntea, and there's some mythology around her and other Moonshavian characters. You can find this in the Moonshae book, which you might get from this torrent, for example. Jannath is the Netherese goddess of nature, supposedly predecessor and earlier identity of Chauntea (but I wouldn't speculate too much with the actual genealogy of the gods). But yes, you can worship any deity in the Realms (or as a druid, any nature deity) even if they're not featured in the Amian Deity System. That's just a work-in-progress that will never feature every possible god.

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SLS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 10:34 AM 

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Ah, so the Earthmother is a primal spirit, did not know that, but it also says that Chauntea is still worshiped as Jannath in the Moonshea Isles.

So is it some sort of misunderstanding on their part? Believing that they were all the same person, and as a result ended up with people worshiping both the Earthmother and Jannath?


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 10:47 AM 

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Where does it say that? I've never heard that. Moonshavians aren't Netherese descendants as far as I know, so that makes little sense. The word Jannath doesn't appear once in the Moonshae book, either. It might be a mistake. I checked Netheril: The Empire of Magic, and Jannath seems to have the title Earthmother. That must be why they're confused, but as far as I can see it's an OOC confusion and not an IC one. Can't be sure, though.

This is a little ofwhat's said about Moonshavian druids and Earthmother, anyway:

Quote:
Druids
Druids are common on each of the
isles inhabited by the Ffolk. There is a
Great Druid on each of Gwynneth,
Alaron, and Moray.
Druids generally show an aptitude
for their calling very early in life. As
druids are highly regarded in the culture
of the Ffolk, parents encourage
children to develop their inherent talent.
The ranks of the druids are thus
assured a steady supply of fresh initiates.
Each druid is assigned a certain portion
of one of the isles as his territory.
At the center of the druid’s territory is
his druidic grove. The grove might be a
cluster of pine or aspen trees, but most
often contains aged oaks, weatherbeaten
and gnarled forest giants that
have withstood a hundred or more savage
winters.
In some high locations, or upon the
barren isles on the northern fringes of
the Moonshaes, the druidic grove is no
more than a scraggly circle of stumpy
pine trees. These trees might be two
hundred years and yet be barely as tall
as a man. Regardless of the type of
trees, every druid has his own grove.
Druids of 12th level and above
receive a particularly enchanted grove
to guard—one with a Moonwell at its
heart. These groves are the most sacred
locations in the world to the Ffolk. The
druids take their custodianship very
seriously indeed. Any druid would sacrifice
his life to preserve the sanctity of
a Moonwell.
Each of the largest isles, Gwynneth,
Alaron, Moray, and Norland, has a central
Moonwell of special import to the
druids. Stone monoliths with crosspieces
form rings of arches around
these Moonwells.
These special Moonwells lie at the
hearts of the groves of the Great
Druids. Those upon Gwynneth, Alaron,
and Moray remain bright and hallowed
places, for those islands are under the
control of the Ffolk. Upon Norland,
however, the arches have fallen into
wreckage and the waters of the
Moonwell lie stagnant and green. Here
the northmen have driven the Ffolk and
the druids from the land, so there are
none to tend the well. Thus the
goddess’s sight grows dim, and she
loses her vision of the world.


Quote:
The Goddess,
E a r t h m o t h e r
The goddess shivered and flinched.
She felt her body growing numb—not
from fear, but from a distant and wistful
sadness. The feeling was remote,
and she took no great notice of it. Gradually,
though, she began to recognize
the numbness for the dire threat that it
was.
With an effort, she forced herself to
stir. Hesitation now, she knew instinctively,
would be fatal. The call she sent
r e v e r b e r a t e d t h r o u g h t h e e a r t h ,
thrumming deep within the mountains
and hills, even rolling along the bottom
of the sea.
Hoping that it was not too late, the
goddess tried to awaken her children.
—From Darkwalker on Moonshae
The goddess of the Moonshaes is an
aspect of the benign goddess Chauntea
(Chawn—TEE—ah), who is worshiped
throughout the Realms as the neutral
good goddess of agriculture. As she is
worshiped in the Moonshaes, however,
her aspect is shaped differently than it
is in any other part of the Realms.
Where Chauntea is generally worshiped
as a goddess of agriculture, the
earthmother is much more a goddess of
nature. Agriculture as an aspect of nature
she regards kindly, but agriculture as
an attempt to master the land becomes a
grave threat to her existence.
The earth goddess does not have a
physical form in which her worshipers
can see her, other than the world that is
all around them. Her symbols, however,
are myriad. The tiniest swallow is a
favored messenger of the goddess. A
broad oak, gnarled and weatherbeaten,
but alive and flourishing, symbolizes
her ageless strength. A towering pine,
rising arrow-straight toward the heavens,
marks the precious neutrality of
her being, so necessary to preserving
the Balance. The thorny, bright green
cluster of mistletoe is another of her
symbols, showing the vitality and
harshness of her existence and mirroring
the extremes inherent in her two
most dramatic seasons, the winter and
summer.
Her deepest symbols, incorporating
all of the contradictions inherent in the
Balance, are the moon and the sun.
Those periods when the moon is full
are nights of high power, when druids
rejoice and the land itself seems to
share in the celebration of the goddess’s
power. Midsummer’s Eve, the night of
the summer solstice, is a period of great
magic. This is when the druids harvest
the mistletoe for their most potent
rites, and when all the communities of
the Ffolk pause to celebrate their life
and prosperity.
The full moons near the vernal
(spring) and autumnal equinoxes are
also festive occasions. In spring, the
festivals are affairs of frenetic drinking,
dancing, and romance as, after the long
cold winter, the return of warmth and
sun to the land is welcomed by the
Ffolk. Spring festivals are ribald affairs,
but the Ffolk are congenial even in the
throes of drink, so the only real drawbacks
are suffered by the celebrants
the following morning.
The autumn festival is a more sober
affair, for the Ffolk know that a cold
and dangerous winter waits close in the
wings. In autumn, feasting rather than
drinking is the order of the day, and the
better the annual harvest, the more
elaborate the feast. Nearly all ports of
the isles bid their last departing ships
farewell following the autumn festival;
they are not likely to receive another
visiting vessel for six months, until
spring once again rolls across the land.
The night of the Winter Solstice, or
Yuletide, is an eve of deep reverence for
the Ffolk and their druids. Locked within
the icy grip of winter, they quietly
acknowledge the might of the land
around them and celebrate the beginning
of longer days and the gradual
arrival of spring. The celebrations are
somber, for the Ffolk know that many
months need pass before the sun
returns with enough strength to drive
winter from the land.
The nights of the full moon are the
times when the goddess’s power is at its
height, but these are also the times
when her world is most chaotic.
Through the Moonwells and the druids,
she has the might necessary to control
the Balance, but she also faces some of
her gravest threats. Lycanthropy, in
particular, grows into its most dangerous
manifestations during the periods
of the full moon.
The vehicles through which the goddess
sends her power to the world, and
through which her druids perceive her
needs, are the Moonwells. These precious
pools of clear water are located
throughout most of the isles, but are
most common on Gwynneth and
Alaron. The waters of the Moonwells
have several beneficial properties that
are known to the druids alone.
The water, when drunk directly from
the Moonwell by a character’s cupped
hands, serves as a potion of healing.
This effect can benefit a character only
once per day. If the character drinking
the water has acted in a way that
threatened the Balance within the
month prior to drinking, the water
actually sickens him, inflicting 1d8
points of damage.
Examples of actions that endanger
the Balance include slaying animals
without putting the meat and skin to
good use, chopping down living trees
for any reason, or initiating attacks
against peaceful beings. Characters
who entered a dungeon to punish a
group of raiding goblins would not
imperil the Balance, but those searching
for treasure and attack goblins in
their lairs to gain this treasure would
not benefit from the favor of the goddess.
When a druid bears a rod, staff, or
other chargeable magical item, a
Moonwell can be used to recharge that
item. The druid must dip the staff into
the well at midnight, under the light of
a full moon, and cast a shillelagh spell at
the same time. The staff will receive
1d6 charges from the power of the
water. This recharging can only be performed
once a month, and a given
druid can only recharge one item per
month.
The druids earn these benefits, however,
for without their tending the
Moonwells would cease to hold their
power. On some of the northern isles,
where the northmen have already driven
the Ffolk and the druids away, the
Moonwells have dried up, or become
stagnant, or merely turned into mundane
wells. This is one cause of the
waning of the goddess’s power.
Each Moonwell is entrusted to the
care of a druid of at least 12th level. A
great portion of that druid’s activities
involve the ritual care and cleansing of
the Moonwell.
Animals of the isles, when they are
injured or sick, often seek out the
Moonwells. Sometimes, the healing
strength of the water will bring the
creature back to a state of health; other
times the waters peacefully put the suffering
creature out of its misery. Those
animals that die at the shore of the
Moonwell are taken by the water quickly
and cleanly, leaving no carcass to
decay and pollute.
The animals of the Moonshaes are
favored creatures of the goddess. The
majestic deer she regards fondly, and
the sly old trout is another of her favorites.
The rare faerie dragons that buzz
through her wildest forests give her
great delight.
The goddess is nearly immortal—as
immortal as the land that is her body.
She is not given gaming statistics as she
does not interact with the creatures of
the world in a way that would make
such stats meaningful. She has agents,
however, that can perform such
interaction—creatures of might, and
timeless grace, who prowl her surface
and seek to further her ends. These are
detailed here. Unlike the goddess herself,
her agents can kill and can be
killed.
These agents are the children of the
goddess.


There's more, but you can d/l the pdf I guess.

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!


 
      
SLS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 10:50 AM 

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I saw it in the FR wiki page about Chauntea:

Before her days as the "Great Mother", she is said to have been named Jannath, and in her early days, she frequented places of overgrown nature, wilderness and packs of animals. This role is now much more Silvanus', though in the Moonshae Isles Chauntea is still worshiped as Jannath.

I'm d/ling the PDF now but my connection is being crappy so could be awhile, thanks for the quotes tho, gimmie a bit to read through it.


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:20 AM 

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Oh. That's a misquote of Faiths & Pantheons, now that I checked. It says "In those early centuries, Chauntea was known as Jannath the Earthmother, a wild deity who ran with animal packs and rejoiced in the unhindered growth of wilderness. Though the people of Moonshae Isles continue to worship this aspect of the Great Mother, the deity herself has moved on, changing as the world changes."

So it doesn't actually say that Moonshavians worship Jannath, but that they worship the wild aspect of Chauntea. But even so, I think whoever wrote that got confused because of the title Earthmother used for Jannath, Chauntea and the Earthmother alike. Or maybe they simply wanted to streamline the developement from Jannath to Chauntea and make Earthmother worship a relic of the past. This wasn't the original lore, though. You can't find any mention of this in The Moonshae, Netheril: Empire Of Magic, earlier Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings or Faiths & Avatars. The line in F&P seems to be completely unprecedented. The Earthmother is a distinct and local entity of the Moonshaes, and she was connected to Chauntea in later lore (mostly because the Moonshae trilogy wasn't originally written for the Forgotten Realms so when it was released to promote the new campaign setting, things had to be tweaked and relatively soon the Earthmother was identified with Chauntea). And similarly, Jannath was a goddess of agriculture and wild nature alike in Netherese times (not quite the wild anarchist portrayed in the above quote) who supposedly developed into, was absorbed by or had her portfolio taken by Chauntea the Faerûnian pantheon took shape and assimilated the local human proto-pantheons. (Gods seem to lack distinct boundaries of identity, and can melt into eachother and split in two not only in name but also in reality, which is why I wouldn't say anything for sure.) At least originally, Jannath and the Moonshavian Earthmother weren't connected.

Whatever the actual connection between Jannath and the Earthmother, it is at least certain that Moonshavians today don't know the name Jannath or the possible origins of the Earthmother. They worship the Earthmother as the goddess of the islands, with all the mythology that goes with it.

_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!


 
      
SLS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:28 AM 

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Kinda like real life "gods" then.
So bottom line is that people from the Moonshae would only acknowledge the Earthmother and would not relate her to Chauntea in any way?


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:32 AM 

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Just pick Chauntea, is the short answer to your question.

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SLS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:36 AM 

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Eh, that works, nice to have background info just the same. Thanks Iron.


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:41 AM 

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SLS wrote:
Kinda like real life "gods" then.
So bottom line is that people from the Moonshae would only acknowledge the Earthmother and would not relate her to Chauntea in any way?


Probably. Depends on how educated and liberal in their theology they are, I guess. Up to you. But yeah, because she's an aspect of Chauntea the two are interchangeable in the deity system. You don't need to sneak to her idol OOCly if you just type Chauntea into your deity field at creation.

_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!


 
      
SLS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:45 AM 

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Nice, thanks again Iron.


 
      
Yossarin
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 14:41 PM 



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Having played a Chauntean and done my own research, yes, Iron is right. "The Earthmother" of the Moonshaes and Chauntea are one and the same, but whether a PC from the Moonshaes knows this or not depends upon their level of ignorance. Though it wouldn't be too difficult to draw the parallel. The dogma's not different, even if the liturgy has some variation.


 
      
SLS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 14:54 PM 

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I'm just reading through the Moonshae book that Iron posted, seems like the Earthmother has effectively become a separate entity from Chauntea?

Quote:
Clerics have arrived among the Ffolk,
preaching of the new gods—the gods
worshiped in Waterdeep, Calimshan,
and Thay. These clerics have not eliminated
the faith of the Ffolk in their goddess,
but they have raised doubts.
T h e g o d d e s s c a n n o w f e e l h e r
strength waning, and she knows that
her life has become bound into the life
of the Ffolk.
And again the Beast has begun to stir


Am I misunderstanding something here?


 
      
Yossarin
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 14:58 PM 



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Unsure how you interpret that.


 
      
SLS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 15:01 PM 

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Well if the Earthmother and Chauntea were the same, why would her life be tied to the Ffolk? Many others worship Chauntea as well no?

It makes it seem like the Earthmother is weakening cause not many still believe in her, which wouldn't be the case if she was Chauntea. Or am I interpreting this wrong?

Tho the book is AD&D, so maybe some stuff's been changed.


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 15:40 PM 

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The Earthmother is a relatively independent aspect of Chauntea. Gods are funny that way, they may have completely different personalities, portfolios and manifestations in different cultures. Maybe the Earthmother isn't even aware of her connection to Chauntea, or at least has a will of her own? Aspects (if you want to call them that) aren't just different names for the same deity, they're collocations of ideas, beliefs and motives that might to all intents and purposes be independent people. If the Earthmother is forgotten, Chauntea may lose that part of her essence and influence for good (at least until the worship is revived) and the Earthmother personality could dissipate. Or something. I still think these kind of metaphysical facts are bad, because the reality of the divine effects and is effected through beliefs and perceptions. So if the Earthmother and Chauntea are believed to be completely different and in conflict, I don't even understand what it means to say that they're "really" the same; they're gods, they ultimately are what they're believed to be.

It's conceivable that Faerûnian clergy of Chauntea would come to the Moonshae with the other faiths and get into competition and conflict with the worship of the Earthmother. A conflict like that would shape the future of the Chauntean faith and the nature of the goddess herself.

The interesting question is not whether or not they're recognized to be "the same" IC, though. What's interesting is how that observation is interpreted. Is Chauntea a watered-down misinterpretation of the Earthmother into Faerûnian purposes, or the opposite? Has Chauntea only managed to retain her true nature in the wild Moonshae, where the Moonwells and the faith of the people keep her from growing tame and degenerate? Is one of them really just an impostor? Or are they just two branches of human theology based on the faith of Jannath, none of the three necessarily representing the goddess accurately? Are they two complementary faces of the universal Mother of the cosmos or at least Toril? Does Chauntea have a special love for the Moonshae that causes her to reside there and take a local form? The possibilities are endless, so I wouldn't get hung up on simple OOC observations but rather start developing wild theology IC.

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!


 
      
SLS
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 21:32 PM 

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Fair point, not surprising for some wires to get crossed after 20 or so years.

Wild theology huh, time to start running naked through the forests. Thanks again for all the info, the Moonshae book was a good read.


 
      
Gunz
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 22:42 PM 



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I actually question whether binding to Chauntea's idol is a good representaion of Earthmother. Earthmother is much more toward the wild, while Chauntea is very much in favor of the tame. I'd argue binding to Silvanus' idol is a much better fit. Alternatively, Sheela Peryroyl of the Hin gods is a goddess of all nature (tame and wild) and might make a even better fit. But on second thought, since you're going Druid and not Cleric, it hardly matters. Just go Chauntea.

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 22:52 PM 

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I guess it doesn't matter because she's not a cleric, yeah. But I'd go with the OOC fact regardless of whether it's relevant IC, for clarity's sake. And as far as I know, the Earthmother's domains are the same as Chauntea's (though that may simply be due to a lack of detail). Because binding is pretty much an OOC thing, the actual dogma and style of the deity shouldn't matter.

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!


 
      
weales
 
PostPosted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 23:26 PM 

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there is also two "sects" to the worship of chauntea that im sure you've read somewhere, about the pastorals on one end and the trueshapers on the other. lots of commotion cause by both sides over whats right and wrong, i makes for a fun god to rp around. i made a druid of chauntea at one point, putting him into the idea of a trueshaper which would probably be on the lines of how the moonshaes see her. pastorals are the farm and irrigation side. a lot of the trueshapers have quarreling ideas with the pastorals, which does leave a lot of the trueshapers side to convert to silvanus. good thing is the whole church isnt well organized so the odds of you, IC dealing with it are lower if you really wanted chauntea as your goddess.


 
      
Gunz
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 1:17 AM 



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There is conflict within her Church, you're right.

The way I see it, the more "wild" followers come from her old school of thought, from when Chauntea was a goddess of all nature and was a lot more like Silvanus, in truth. Those ideals linger and remain in her Church. Because she doesn't particularly disagree with Silvanus' role -- hell, she gave it to him -- and stances, she allows them in her Church. It should be said though, although to a much lesser degree, the opposite is true in Silvanus' Church. And yes, he does indeed allow it.

Chauntea and Silvanus, when brought together, are the gods of nature as a whole. They oversee all things natural. All of it. Considering they're close allies and in reading about them, it becomes clear how much they truly love and care for nature. It's easy to see why Silvanus would allow some of his clergy to care for more for the tame or why Chauntea would allow some of her clergy to care more for the wild. You can argue that they're perhaps threatening their own rule over their particular aspect of nature by doing it, but they do it anyway.

But I digress. Chauntea is totally fine since you're a Druid. There isn't much to gain from with the prayer system if you're not a cleric. Best to keep things simple and clear if there's no need to make it complicated.

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Gobo-kobo
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 2:01 AM 

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http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Chauntea.htm

As simple as possible.
I've got a druid of Chauntea, so if you have any specific questions feel free to pm me.


 
      
SLS
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 2:10 AM 

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So Chauntea willingly left an aspect of herself behind in the Moonshae? I guess that she would recognize someone worshiping the Earthmother then, one way or another.

That CHA requirement really knocks me for a loop tho.


 
      
Gunz
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 2:55 AM 



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No one follows those stat requirements for clergy PC's for any god here. Well, I shouldn't say no one, but most don't. You're not required to obey that on Amia. Not to mention, all that nonsense is absent in the newer deity book. That info on the link is from the old deity book only.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 3:02 AM 

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Those stat requirements are for specialty priests in second edition. That concept was expanded into Prestige Classes in 3e/3.5e.

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SLS
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 8:24 AM 

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Druids were the equivalent of PRCs? Huh, makes sense I guess, so no need to worry about the CHA then, quite the relief.


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 8:52 AM 

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No, I mean Specialty Priests were one f the budding prototypes for PrCs, a bit like class kits were. I don't know enough about 2e mechanics to comment on Druid.

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Grymia
 
PostPosted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 8:58 AM 

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Druid was one of the effective main classes in some versions of 2nd Ed.


 
      
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