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[ 28 posts ] |
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SLS
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 9:52 AM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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So since my other thread got locked, was thinking of making my Druid a Ffolk. Since I don't know much about Druid RP I decided to start simple, and they have a tradition of being Druids.
So since they worship Jannath, and Jannath is an aspect of Chauntea, I can just set his deity as Chauntea and RP him worshiping Jannath?
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 10:23 AM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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They worship Earthmother, who is (supposedly) a local aspect of Chauntea in the Moonshae. She's more wild than Chauntea, and there's some mythology around her and other Moonshavian characters. You can find this in the Moonshae book, which you might get from this torrent, for example. Jannath is the Netherese goddess of nature, supposedly predecessor and earlier identity of Chauntea (but I wouldn't speculate too much with the actual genealogy of the gods). But yes, you can worship any deity in the Realms (or as a druid, any nature deity) even if they're not featured in the Amian Deity System. That's just a work-in-progress that will never feature every possible god.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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SLS
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 10:34 AM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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Ah, so the Earthmother is a primal spirit, did not know that, but it also says that Chauntea is still worshiped as Jannath in the Moonshea Isles.
So is it some sort of misunderstanding on their part? Believing that they were all the same person, and as a result ended up with people worshiping both the Earthmother and Jannath?
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 10:47 AM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Where does it say that? I've never heard that. Moonshavians aren't Netherese descendants as far as I know, so that makes little sense. The word Jannath doesn't appear once in the Moonshae book, either. It might be a mistake. I checked Netheril: The Empire of Magic, and Jannath seems to have the title Earthmother. That must be why they're confused, but as far as I can see it's an OOC confusion and not an IC one. Can't be sure, though. This is a little ofwhat's said about Moonshavian druids and Earthmother, anyway: Quote: Druids Druids are common on each of the isles inhabited by the Ffolk. There is a Great Druid on each of Gwynneth, Alaron, and Moray. Druids generally show an aptitude for their calling very early in life. As druids are highly regarded in the culture of the Ffolk, parents encourage children to develop their inherent talent. The ranks of the druids are thus assured a steady supply of fresh initiates. Each druid is assigned a certain portion of one of the isles as his territory. At the center of the druids territory is his druidic grove. The grove might be a cluster of pine or aspen trees, but most often contains aged oaks, weatherbeaten and gnarled forest giants that have withstood a hundred or more savage winters. In some high locations, or upon the barren isles on the northern fringes of the Moonshaes, the druidic grove is no more than a scraggly circle of stumpy pine trees. These trees might be two hundred years and yet be barely as tall as a man. Regardless of the type of trees, every druid has his own grove. Druids of 12th level and above receive a particularly enchanted grove to guardone with a Moonwell at its heart. These groves are the most sacred locations in the world to the Ffolk. The druids take their custodianship very seriously indeed. Any druid would sacrifice his life to preserve the sanctity of a Moonwell. Each of the largest isles, Gwynneth, Alaron, Moray, and Norland, has a central Moonwell of special import to the druids. Stone monoliths with crosspieces form rings of arches around these Moonwells. These special Moonwells lie at the hearts of the groves of the Great Druids. Those upon Gwynneth, Alaron, and Moray remain bright and hallowed places, for those islands are under the control of the Ffolk. Upon Norland, however, the arches have fallen into wreckage and the waters of the Moonwell lie stagnant and green. Here the northmen have driven the Ffolk and the druids from the land, so there are none to tend the well. Thus the goddesss sight grows dim, and she loses her vision of the world. Quote: The Goddess, E a r t h m o t h e r The goddess shivered and flinched. She felt her body growing numbnot from fear, but from a distant and wistful sadness. The feeling was remote, and she took no great notice of it. Gradually, though, she began to recognize the numbness for the dire threat that it was. With an effort, she forced herself to stir. Hesitation now, she knew instinctively, would be fatal. The call she sent r e v e r b e r a t e d t h r o u g h t h e e a r t h , thrumming deep within the mountains and hills, even rolling along the bottom of the sea. Hoping that it was not too late, the goddess tried to awaken her children. From Darkwalker on Moonshae The goddess of the Moonshaes is an aspect of the benign goddess Chauntea (ChawnTEEah), who is worshiped throughout the Realms as the neutral good goddess of agriculture. As she is worshiped in the Moonshaes, however, her aspect is shaped differently than it is in any other part of the Realms. Where Chauntea is generally worshiped as a goddess of agriculture, the earthmother is much more a goddess of nature. Agriculture as an aspect of nature she regards kindly, but agriculture as an attempt to master the land becomes a grave threat to her existence. The earth goddess does not have a physical form in which her worshipers can see her, other than the world that is all around them. Her symbols, however, are myriad. The tiniest swallow is a favored messenger of the goddess. A broad oak, gnarled and weatherbeaten, but alive and flourishing, symbolizes her ageless strength. A towering pine, rising arrow-straight toward the heavens, marks the precious neutrality of her being, so necessary to preserving the Balance. The thorny, bright green cluster of mistletoe is another of her symbols, showing the vitality and harshness of her existence and mirroring the extremes inherent in her two most dramatic seasons, the winter and summer. Her deepest symbols, incorporating all of the contradictions inherent in the Balance, are the moon and the sun. Those periods when the moon is full are nights of high power, when druids rejoice and the land itself seems to share in the celebration of the goddesss power. Midsummers Eve, the night of the summer solstice, is a period of great magic. This is when the druids harvest the mistletoe for their most potent rites, and when all the communities of the Ffolk pause to celebrate their life and prosperity. The full moons near the vernal (spring) and autumnal equinoxes are also festive occasions. In spring, the festivals are affairs of frenetic drinking, dancing, and romance as, after the long cold winter, the return of warmth and sun to the land is welcomed by the Ffolk. Spring festivals are ribald affairs, but the Ffolk are congenial even in the throes of drink, so the only real drawbacks are suffered by the celebrants the following morning. The autumn festival is a more sober affair, for the Ffolk know that a cold and dangerous winter waits close in the wings. In autumn, feasting rather than drinking is the order of the day, and the better the annual harvest, the more elaborate the feast. Nearly all ports of the isles bid their last departing ships farewell following the autumn festival; they are not likely to receive another visiting vessel for six months, until spring once again rolls across the land. The night of the Winter Solstice, or Yuletide, is an eve of deep reverence for the Ffolk and their druids. Locked within the icy grip of winter, they quietly acknowledge the might of the land around them and celebrate the beginning of longer days and the gradual arrival of spring. The celebrations are somber, for the Ffolk know that many months need pass before the sun returns with enough strength to drive winter from the land. The nights of the full moon are the times when the goddesss power is at its height, but these are also the times when her world is most chaotic. Through the Moonwells and the druids, she has the might necessary to control the Balance, but she also faces some of her gravest threats. Lycanthropy, in particular, grows into its most dangerous manifestations during the periods of the full moon. The vehicles through which the goddess sends her power to the world, and through which her druids perceive her needs, are the Moonwells. These precious pools of clear water are located throughout most of the isles, but are most common on Gwynneth and Alaron. The waters of the Moonwells have several beneficial properties that are known to the druids alone. The water, when drunk directly from the Moonwell by a characters cupped hands, serves as a potion of healing. This effect can benefit a character only once per day. If the character drinking the water has acted in a way that threatened the Balance within the month prior to drinking, the water actually sickens him, inflicting 1d8 points of damage. Examples of actions that endanger the Balance include slaying animals without putting the meat and skin to good use, chopping down living trees for any reason, or initiating attacks against peaceful beings. Characters who entered a dungeon to punish a group of raiding goblins would not imperil the Balance, but those searching for treasure and attack goblins in their lairs to gain this treasure would not benefit from the favor of the goddess. When a druid bears a rod, staff, or other chargeable magical item, a Moonwell can be used to recharge that item. The druid must dip the staff into the well at midnight, under the light of a full moon, and cast a shillelagh spell at the same time. The staff will receive 1d6 charges from the power of the water. This recharging can only be performed once a month, and a given druid can only recharge one item per month. The druids earn these benefits, however, for without their tending the Moonwells would cease to hold their power. On some of the northern isles, where the northmen have already driven the Ffolk and the druids away, the Moonwells have dried up, or become stagnant, or merely turned into mundane wells. This is one cause of the waning of the goddesss power. Each Moonwell is entrusted to the care of a druid of at least 12th level. A great portion of that druids activities involve the ritual care and cleansing of the Moonwell. Animals of the isles, when they are injured or sick, often seek out the Moonwells. Sometimes, the healing strength of the water will bring the creature back to a state of health; other times the waters peacefully put the suffering creature out of its misery. Those animals that die at the shore of the Moonwell are taken by the water quickly and cleanly, leaving no carcass to decay and pollute. The animals of the Moonshaes are favored creatures of the goddess. The majestic deer she regards fondly, and the sly old trout is another of her favorites. The rare faerie dragons that buzz through her wildest forests give her great delight. The goddess is nearly immortalas immortal as the land that is her body. She is not given gaming statistics as she does not interact with the creatures of the world in a way that would make such stats meaningful. She has agents, however, that can perform such interactioncreatures of might, and timeless grace, who prowl her surface and seek to further her ends. These are detailed here. Unlike the goddess herself, her agents can kill and can be killed. These agents are the children of the goddess. There's more, but you can d/l the pdf I guess.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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SLS
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 10:50 AM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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I saw it in the FR wiki page about Chauntea:
Before her days as the "Great Mother", she is said to have been named Jannath, and in her early days, she frequented places of overgrown nature, wilderness and packs of animals. This role is now much more Silvanus', though in the Moonshae Isles Chauntea is still worshiped as Jannath.
I'm d/ling the PDF now but my connection is being crappy so could be awhile, thanks for the quotes tho, gimmie a bit to read through it.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:20 AM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Oh. That's a misquote of Faiths & Pantheons, now that I checked. It says "In those early centuries, Chauntea was known as Jannath the Earthmother, a wild deity who ran with animal packs and rejoiced in the unhindered growth of wilderness. Though the people of Moonshae Isles continue to worship this aspect of the Great Mother, the deity herself has moved on, changing as the world changes."
So it doesn't actually say that Moonshavians worship Jannath, but that they worship the wild aspect of Chauntea. But even so, I think whoever wrote that got confused because of the title Earthmother used for Jannath, Chauntea and the Earthmother alike. Or maybe they simply wanted to streamline the developement from Jannath to Chauntea and make Earthmother worship a relic of the past. This wasn't the original lore, though. You can't find any mention of this in The Moonshae, Netheril: Empire Of Magic, earlier Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings or Faiths & Avatars. The line in F&P seems to be completely unprecedented. The Earthmother is a distinct and local entity of the Moonshaes, and she was connected to Chauntea in later lore (mostly because the Moonshae trilogy wasn't originally written for the Forgotten Realms so when it was released to promote the new campaign setting, things had to be tweaked and relatively soon the Earthmother was identified with Chauntea). And similarly, Jannath was a goddess of agriculture and wild nature alike in Netherese times (not quite the wild anarchist portrayed in the above quote) who supposedly developed into, was absorbed by or had her portfolio taken by Chauntea the Faerûnian pantheon took shape and assimilated the local human proto-pantheons. (Gods seem to lack distinct boundaries of identity, and can melt into eachother and split in two not only in name but also in reality, which is why I wouldn't say anything for sure.) At least originally, Jannath and the Moonshavian Earthmother weren't connected.
Whatever the actual connection between Jannath and the Earthmother, it is at least certain that Moonshavians today don't know the name Jannath or the possible origins of the Earthmother. They worship the Earthmother as the goddess of the islands, with all the mythology that goes with it.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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SLS
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:28 AM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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Kinda like real life "gods" then. So bottom line is that people from the Moonshae would only acknowledge the Earthmother and would not relate her to Chauntea in any way?
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:32 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere
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Just pick Chauntea, is the short answer to your question.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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SLS
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:36 AM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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Eh, that works, nice to have background info just the same. Thanks Iron.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:41 AM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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SLS wrote: Kinda like real life "gods" then. So bottom line is that people from the Moonshae would only acknowledge the Earthmother and would not relate her to Chauntea in any way? Probably. Depends on how educated and liberal in their theology they are, I guess. Up to you. But yeah, because she's an aspect of Chauntea the two are interchangeable in the deity system. You don't need to sneak to her idol OOCly if you just type Chauntea into your deity field at creation.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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SLS
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:45 AM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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Yossarin
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 14:41 PM |
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Having played a Chauntean and done my own research, yes, Iron is right. "The Earthmother" of the Moonshaes and Chauntea are one and the same, but whether a PC from the Moonshaes knows this or not depends upon their level of ignorance. Though it wouldn't be too difficult to draw the parallel. The dogma's not different, even if the liturgy has some variation.
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SLS
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 14:54 PM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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I'm just reading through the Moonshae book that Iron posted, seems like the Earthmother has effectively become a separate entity from Chauntea? Quote: Clerics have arrived among the Ffolk, preaching of the new godsthe gods worshiped in Waterdeep, Calimshan, and Thay. These clerics have not eliminated the faith of the Ffolk in their goddess, but they have raised doubts. T h e g o d d e s s c a n n o w f e e l h e r strength waning, and she knows that her life has become bound into the life of the Ffolk. And again the Beast has begun to stir Am I misunderstanding something here?
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Yossarin
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 14:58 PM |
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Unsure how you interpret that.
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SLS
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 15:01 PM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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Well if the Earthmother and Chauntea were the same, why would her life be tied to the Ffolk? Many others worship Chauntea as well no?
It makes it seem like the Earthmother is weakening cause not many still believe in her, which wouldn't be the case if she was Chauntea. Or am I interpreting this wrong?
Tho the book is AD&D, so maybe some stuff's been changed.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 15:40 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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The Earthmother is a relatively independent aspect of Chauntea. Gods are funny that way, they may have completely different personalities, portfolios and manifestations in different cultures. Maybe the Earthmother isn't even aware of her connection to Chauntea, or at least has a will of her own? Aspects (if you want to call them that) aren't just different names for the same deity, they're collocations of ideas, beliefs and motives that might to all intents and purposes be independent people. If the Earthmother is forgotten, Chauntea may lose that part of her essence and influence for good (at least until the worship is revived) and the Earthmother personality could dissipate. Or something. I still think these kind of metaphysical facts are bad, because the reality of the divine effects and is effected through beliefs and perceptions. So if the Earthmother and Chauntea are believed to be completely different and in conflict, I don't even understand what it means to say that they're "really" the same; they're gods, they ultimately are what they're believed to be.
It's conceivable that Faerûnian clergy of Chauntea would come to the Moonshae with the other faiths and get into competition and conflict with the worship of the Earthmother. A conflict like that would shape the future of the Chauntean faith and the nature of the goddess herself.
The interesting question is not whether or not they're recognized to be "the same" IC, though. What's interesting is how that observation is interpreted. Is Chauntea a watered-down misinterpretation of the Earthmother into Faerûnian purposes, or the opposite? Has Chauntea only managed to retain her true nature in the wild Moonshae, where the Moonwells and the faith of the people keep her from growing tame and degenerate? Is one of them really just an impostor? Or are they just two branches of human theology based on the faith of Jannath, none of the three necessarily representing the goddess accurately? Are they two complementary faces of the universal Mother of the cosmos or at least Toril? Does Chauntea have a special love for the Moonshae that causes her to reside there and take a local form? The possibilities are endless, so I wouldn't get hung up on simple OOC observations but rather start developing wild theology IC.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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SLS
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 21:32 PM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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Fair point, not surprising for some wires to get crossed after 20 or so years.
Wild theology huh, time to start running naked through the forests. Thanks again for all the info, the Moonshae book was a good read.
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Gunz
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 22:42 PM |
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Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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I actually question whether binding to Chauntea's idol is a good representaion of Earthmother. Earthmother is much more toward the wild, while Chauntea is very much in favor of the tame. I'd argue binding to Silvanus' idol is a much better fit. Alternatively, Sheela Peryroyl of the Hin gods is a goddess of all nature (tame and wild) and might make a even better fit. But on second thought, since you're going Druid and not Cleric, it hardly matters. Just go Chauntea.
_________________ My Characters: Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 22:52 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I guess it doesn't matter because she's not a cleric, yeah. But I'd go with the OOC fact regardless of whether it's relevant IC, for clarity's sake. And as far as I know, the Earthmother's domains are the same as Chauntea's (though that may simply be due to a lack of detail). Because binding is pretty much an OOC thing, the actual dogma and style of the deity shouldn't matter.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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weales
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 23:26 PM |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Location: toronto, canada
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there is also two "sects" to the worship of chauntea that im sure you've read somewhere, about the pastorals on one end and the trueshapers on the other. lots of commotion cause by both sides over whats right and wrong, i makes for a fun god to rp around. i made a druid of chauntea at one point, putting him into the idea of a trueshaper which would probably be on the lines of how the moonshaes see her. pastorals are the farm and irrigation side. a lot of the trueshapers have quarreling ideas with the pastorals, which does leave a lot of the trueshapers side to convert to silvanus. good thing is the whole church isnt well organized so the odds of you, IC dealing with it are lower if you really wanted chauntea as your goddess.
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Gunz
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 1:17 AM |
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Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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There is conflict within her Church, you're right.
The way I see it, the more "wild" followers come from her old school of thought, from when Chauntea was a goddess of all nature and was a lot more like Silvanus, in truth. Those ideals linger and remain in her Church. Because she doesn't particularly disagree with Silvanus' role -- hell, she gave it to him -- and stances, she allows them in her Church. It should be said though, although to a much lesser degree, the opposite is true in Silvanus' Church. And yes, he does indeed allow it.
Chauntea and Silvanus, when brought together, are the gods of nature as a whole. They oversee all things natural. All of it. Considering they're close allies and in reading about them, it becomes clear how much they truly love and care for nature. It's easy to see why Silvanus would allow some of his clergy to care for more for the tame or why Chauntea would allow some of her clergy to care more for the wild. You can argue that they're perhaps threatening their own rule over their particular aspect of nature by doing it, but they do it anyway.
But I digress. Chauntea is totally fine since you're a Druid. There isn't much to gain from with the prayer system if you're not a cleric. Best to keep things simple and clear if there's no need to make it complicated.
_________________ My Characters: Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Gobo-kobo
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 2:01 AM |
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Joined: 01 Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere far beyond
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SLS
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 2:10 AM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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So Chauntea willingly left an aspect of herself behind in the Moonshae? I guess that she would recognize someone worshiping the Earthmother then, one way or another.
That CHA requirement really knocks me for a loop tho.
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Gunz
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 2:55 AM |
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Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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No one follows those stat requirements for clergy PC's for any god here. Well, I shouldn't say no one, but most don't. You're not required to obey that on Amia. Not to mention, all that nonsense is absent in the newer deity book. That info on the link is from the old deity book only.
_________________ My Characters: Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 3:02 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere
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Those stat requirements are for specialty priests in second edition. That concept was expanded into Prestige Classes in 3e/3.5e.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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SLS
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 8:24 AM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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Druids were the equivalent of PRCs? Huh, makes sense I guess, so no need to worry about the CHA then, quite the relief.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 8:52 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere
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No, I mean Specialty Priests were one f the budding prototypes for PrCs, a bit like class kits were. I don't know enough about 2e mechanics to comment on Druid.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Grymia
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 8:58 AM |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Druid was one of the effective main classes in some versions of 2nd Ed.
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