AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Hak Class Changes

What started off as a simple change of names for several classes has evolved into something far, far greater over these part few months. As it's quite evident here, a LOT of work has gone into this stuff, for both the developers and testers alike. Understand that until the day of release, this is all subject to change depending on bugs or mechanics, so don't take it as gospel until these shiny things are sitting in front of you.

Anyway, without further ado, here are the Amian class changes 2011.

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Assassin

Assassins have always taken a bit of a bad rap for being a class largely out-shined by Rogue. It is unfortunately well-warranted, as it simply doesn't offer enough in comparison to the more vanilla flavoured Rogue. To that end, we've given them spells, feats and even extra assassin tools in order to make them that much more appealing than their non-evil cousins.

But they were still missing something integral. Something very vital.

Something rather like this this.

And this.

Well, funnily enough. Take a look at these feat screenshots from the hak:

Ah, yes, and we've given them this for good measure, too:

All three of these are epic feat choices. So what does this mean for the Assassin? Well, the more build savvy of you have probably worked it out already. For the people who haven't, perhaps you should click on this link.

In exchange for these awesome benefits, Assassins may feel a slight sting in regards to the power of Kneecappers Knife. But rest assured, it is completely worth it for what they're gaining here.

Finally, Assassins can fight on the same ground as their older sibling the Rogue.

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Blackguard

OK, I'll be honest. What the Blackguards are gaining isn't quite on the level of Assassin. However, it is something that's been requested and mentioned over and over for as long as I can remember, and the response has always had to be "Sorry, unfixable without haks."

Well, this is convenient, isn't it?

Yes, they now have Extra Turning in their feat lists, just like their less evil-inclined brethren. Enjoy!

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Divine Champion
AKA: The artist formerly known as Champion of Torm

So, all you evil types want a slice of the divine pie then? But you don't want to pledge your soul to a demon or devil, nor do you want to be a cleric... you're a warrior, not a priest.

You're in luck. Divine Champion's alignment restriction has been unlocked. Now, the only thing you need to take this class is a Weapon Focus and the required Base Attack Bonus. Rejoice in your evil!

Also appropriately, Divine Champion has lost Smite Evil. For all you smite-based characters, fear not - your Divine Champion levels still stack in regards to the power of Smite Evil, but you'll no longer gain the feat from this class.

Instead, you gain Purge Infidel.

No, it isn't Smite Infidel. How this works is a weapon damage bonus that deals damage to all unfortunate creatures that don't happen to possess the same alignment as you. Quite nifty, I'd say.

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Druid

In the past, we gave those treehuggers the benefits of Magic Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon and Flame Weapon. They're meant to be the most 'buff heavy' class, so why shouldn't they have access to weapon buff spells, as well?

With that line of thinking, we gave all the ability buffs to druids.

That's Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, Endurance, Fox's Cunning and Owl's Wisdom.

Quite a mouthful.

So, all you weedy druids missing your Endurance spell - this is the update you finally get to buff up your body!

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As mentioned earlier, the original idea was to simply change the name of two classes in order to make them less faction-based and more general for anyone to take. However, it evolved past that idea into not only changing their names, but how they worked entirely in order to make them far more useful, while keeping the original 'feel' of the class that their designers had intended.

Those classes would be the Harper Scout and Purple Dragon Knight.

They've changed a lot. Enjoy the days where the Harper Scout class is the butt of jokes, because those days are numbered.

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Knight Commander
The new Purple Dragon Knight

"Whether it is leading the charge on a group of regal knights or cutting down fleeing victims, the Knight Commander stands forefront with a mastery over leadership, co-ordination and discipline. The Knight Commander is a shining example of why a handful of well-organised soldiers can best an army of rabble, gaining abilities to bolster his troops and control the battlefield with expert prowess. While such commanders come from many walks of life, all possess natural talent at direction and tactical supremacy."

- Hit Die: d10
- Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, all types of armor, and shields.
- Base Attack Bonus: High
- Saves: Fortitude and Will
- Skill Points: 2 + Int Modifier

REQUIREMENTS:

Base Attack Bonus: +5
Feats: Skill Focus: Discipline, Toughness
Skills: Discipline 8 ranks, Persuade 4 Ranks, Lore 4 Ranks, Taunt 4 Ranks

The Knight Commander takes everything which the Purple Dragon Knight was supposed to do, multiplies its use tenfold and gives itself yet another couple of features on top of that. Combining high Base Attack Bonus progression with heavy armor and shields, this is a class designed to be at the front of the party, protecting the weaker members of the party while able to take the punishment itself.

A Knight Commander's main feature is their auras. They gain up to five, one each level, and each one has its own function, ranging from slowing down the movement speed of all enemies in the proximity (as well as making them easier to hit with Attacks of Opportunity) to imparting all allies with a physical-based damage shield. A Knight Commander can change the flow of battle entirely through simply changing their auras. Want to help your mages deal extra damage with their spells? They have an aura for that. Want to combat mind-effecting spell heavy monsters? They have an aura for that.

In addition to this, they have a secondary use as party members - they gain a feat unique entirely to them which, upon a successful Taunt check, forces all nearby enemies to focus their attention on them. This is ideal for making sure the enemies keep their focus upon where they should be. A well-organised party led by a Knight Commander is a truly fearsome group to behold. Expect this feat to work differently against other player characters, however!

Finally, they have kept their Heroic Shield, but it has had some important changes which both balances it better than its original incarnation, and makes it far less tedious to keep clicking on during the flow of combat.

Overall, this class is a dream come true for any characters that are good leaders or tacticians. Fighters, barbarians, paladins or even bards make fine Knight Commanders!

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Master Scout
The new Harper Scout

"The wilderness is a harsh, unforgiving place of danger and intrigue. Some, however, call this dangerous land their home. They are the Master Scout, a specialist in survival and fortitude. While they retain similarities to other wardens of the wilderness, the Master Scout stands apart in that their skills lie in the navigation itself. In this, they are unparalleled."

- Hit Die: d8
- Proficiencies: All simple weapons, light armor.
- Base Attack Bonus: Medium
- Saves: Fortitude and Reflex
- Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier

REQUIREMENTS:

Feats: Skill Focus: Listen, Skill Focus: Spot
Skills: Craft Trap 2 ranks, Discipline 8 ranks, Listen 2 ranks, Lore 6 ranks, Search 2 ranks, Set Trap 2 ranks, Spot 2 ranks

Imagine a marriage between Rogue and Ranger, perhaps with a little supervision from Druid at the same time. That is the Master Scout. Yet, the Master Scout doesn't offer Sneak Attack, nor does it possess the high Base Attack Progression of the Ranger. So what does it get?

Terrain advantage and superiority at ambushes. If you fight a Master Scout on their land, good luck to you - you'll certainly need it.

The very first feat they gain is a simple movement bonus whilst in wilderness areas. Think of it as a way of ensuring the Master Scout always has the advantage of positioning while in their favoured area. Secondly, and more importantly, they gain the feature to craft tools. Harper Scouts have always had the ability to craft things on Amia, but what Master Scouts can craft is entirely different. The ability to change their weapon damage, confuse and damage enemies with bombs and buff themselves up with potions normally unbuyable are all features the Master Scout has at their disposal.

Most importantly, however, is their ability to upgrade traps. After all, what ambush would be without a carefully laid trap? With a simple monetary cost, they can give that trap an extra boom, whether it it be through extra ability damage or a temporary damage weakness to further traps. When it comes to fighting with a Master Scout, always ensure you have experience with traps!

The Master Scout gains another few advantages, as well. While its correct they normally have less Attack Bonus than a Ranger would, that isn't strictly always true... because in the wilderness, the balance is scaled in favour of the Master Scout.

Finally, the Master Scout hasn't lost the bonus feat at level one and level five, just like the Harper Scout. However, the bonus feat list it possesses has changed. You'll even find a feat there no other class has as a bonus epic feat.

Naturally, Rogues and Rangers make great Master Scouts. More sneaky druids and barbarians may even find it useful!

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Finally, I'm sure everyone wants to know how this affects their current character. Well, here you are:

In regards to rebuilds

¹ Champion of Torm, Blackguard and Assassin

These classes are not entitled to rebuilds of any sort. In the case of Champion of Torms, they must ask in-game for DM to fix their Purge Infidel feat, if they have already passed the level they were granted it. In those cases, a DM is able to fix this feat so they may gain it without the necessity of character edits or rebuilds.

² Druid

The druid gains these extra spells retroactively, and so there are no rebuilds necessary for them to gain their new benefits.

³ Purple Dragon Knight, Harper Scout

Any characters with at least one level of either of these classes are required to take a free rebuild. These free rebuilds must be requested in the Request Forums as per normal for any rebuild, but do not count toward the yearly rebuild amount. You are permitted to change your rebuild, keep or lose PDK/Harper Scout, but in these cases where classes change, roleplay reasons are expected. Additionally, in the case where classes change (for instance, a Paladin/Purple Dragon Knight into a Paladin/Divine Champion/Knight Commander), your approval of this request is not guaranteed. In all instances, the approval of these requests are run on a case-by-case basis and for the most chance of getting them approved, should be treated as seriously as any normal rebuild request.

As mentioned, if a character already possesses Purple Dragon Knight or Harper Scout, a rebuild is a requirement, not optional. This is because the requirements of the PDK and HS have changed from what they were originally, and the feats themselves have also greatly changed.

In an indefinite amount of time, characters with Champion of Torm that have not had their Purge Infidel feat fixed, as well as characters with Harper Scout or Purple Dragon Knight that have not been rebuilt will be unable to move past the Entry until they are fixed. For this reason, ask for your fix/rebuild sooner rather than later!

The picture of the master scout seems to be wearing something new on it's back... Perhaps a cloak model being added to the hak?

And also, on a more on-topic note, these look AMAZING! I can already see dozens of possibilites for their RP and build potential!

Bini wrote:

The picture of the master scout seems to be wearing something new on it's back... Perhaps a cloak model being added to the hak?

Nope. We've had quivers available for ages. Find a PC with the approriate job for making them if you want one.

Wow, good work! Are the Assassin feats free at 14, or do you need to use a feat for them?

.. *whimpers*..

These look cool!

I'm curious to know if there's anything in the works at all for Wizard and or Sorceror. (Even if it's as simple as mechanical changes for spells)

Oh yes, there are.

Xenos wrote:

Wow, good work! Are the Assassin feats free at 14, or do you need to use a feat for them?

They're epic feat choices, similar to how Rogue gains them.

Last edited by Kannexx on Sat, Jul 30 2011, 20:06 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Thank you, guys. I never understood why they built the Purple Knight like they did, and it looks like you fixed it!

I have one question though. Do we players need to reDL the Haks?

Edit: Thanks, Selmak!

I don't know if any of the old HAK files have been changed but certainly there will be at least one new HAK file to download.

Yes, looks like we do as with other grander updates as well.

Now i totally want to make an Assassin Master Scout.. or something.

Kinda off that Master Scout is a trap type class, but it has no requirement of Craft Trap, Set Trap, or Disable Trap. But rather that it needs "Discipline 8 Ranks". Feels like Discipline is out of place there.

Oh my god... this is exactly what we were missing! The Knight Commander taunt check is such an archetypical tank ability, it's a role I've really wanted to play. Maybe I'll be motivated to get back full-time and roll one. Such amazing work. Good changes, clearly with attention paid to PC role in a party. Just like it should be in D&D.

Just want to point out what an epic cocktease sune was for the first post. And he enjoyed every second of it, oh yes, oh yes he did indeed.

Xenos wrote:

Now i totally want to make an Assassin Master Scout.. or something.

Kinda off that Master Scout is a trap type class, but it has no requirement of Craft Trap, Set Trap, or Disable Trap. But rather that it needs "Discipline 8 Ranks". Feels like Discipline is out of place there.

Rather correct, actually. The Master Scout's original incarnation was quite vastly different to what it is now, and the Discipline rank requirements were never looked at again.

Sad its for wilds only, would of been an awesome class for city guards to pick up.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Xenos wrote:

Now i totally want to make an Assassin Master Scout.. or something.

Kinda off that Master Scout is a trap type class, but it has no requirement of Craft Trap, Set Trap, or Disable Trap. But rather that it needs "Discipline 8 Ranks". Feels like Discipline is out of place there.

Rather correct, actually. The Master Scout's original incarnation was quite vastly different to what it is now, and the Discipline rank requirements were never looked at again.

*Does a jump and hits his heels together* I said something useful! That said, Lore feels like it might be part of that original idea as well.. I suppose changing them both to Set and Craft traps would be more fitting for the class. Im kind of hesitant to suggest a feat change, given im not sure on the balance there. But two Skill Focus feels like a bit heavy.. but perhaps thats just the cost of the goodies you get, i dont know, i think Alertness would work better, replacing the two Skill Foci, and would give the same +2 +2.

Charles1810 wrote:

Sad its for wilds only, would of been an awesome class for city guards to pick up.

Id think they made it Wilderness areas because, really, why do you need move speed in a city? There isnt a lot of running around and fighting in Cordor or Kohlington is there? That said id not be at all surprised to see a rogue/scout trapper being around a city more then a forest, despite what the scout class gets in the 'wild'.

I'm sorry, i didn't understand something about the new smite, will paladins now get to smite neutral creatures too?

Quote:

Bini wrote:
The picture of the master scout seems to be wearing something new on it's back... Perhaps a cloak model being added to the hak?

Nope. We've had quivers available for ages. Find a PC with the approriate job for making them if you want one.

I'm interested in what the smaller, drape-like cloak is thats worn about her neck like a scarf.

survivor2009 wrote:

I'm sorry, i didn't understand something about the new smite, will paladins now get to smite neutral creatures too?

No, Divine Champion will he able to use the new ability to smite anyone that Isn't the same alignment as he is. Nothing is changed for Clerics, BG, Paladins.

Bini wrote:

I'm interested in what the smaller, drape-like cloak is thats worn about her neck like a scarf.

There's nothing there. You must be seeing things.

As for the required feats, they're most definitely staying. For what you get in return it's easily worth it.

Really awesome! Can't wait to make a Master Scout.

Few questions about the Master Scout:
- Is it still a 5-level Prestige Class, or can more levels be taken in it?

Quote:

Finally, the Master Scout hasn't lost the bonus feat at level one and level five, just like the Harper Scout. However, the bonus feat list it possesses has changed. You'll even find a feat there no other class has as a bonus epic feat.

- Is the feat mentioned here epic? If so, does the 1st/5th level of MS need to be taken in Epic levels in order to have access to it?

About Assassin:
- Are Defensive Roll, Imp Evasion, Epic Dodge, Crip hit only available on Assassin bonus feats? Or can they be taken by Assassin 14+ on a general feat?

Well that is just eerie. I was JUST planning on making a sort of trap-based highwayman/extortionist ("Some scoundrel has put traps in the road, but fear not, for I shall escort you past them for a modest fee!"), and then I see the new Master Scout. Can't wait.

I really really like these changes. Kudos!

Even better it was happening when I was planning a selfer for my assassin, and the changes work great for it!

Moonfighter wrote:

Few questions about the Master Scout:
- Is it still a 5-level Prestige Class, or can more levels be taken in it?

They're both 5-level Prestige classes still.

Moonfighter wrote:

- Is the feat mentioned here epic? If so, does the 1st/5th level of MS need to be taken in Epic levels in order to have access to it?

Correct.

Moonfighter wrote:

About Assassin:
- Are Defensive Roll, Imp Evasion, Epic Dodge, Crip hit only available on Assassin bonus feats? Or can they be taken by Assassin 14+ on a general feat?

Assassin bonus feats only, just like how Rogue does it. Except for Epic Dodge, that isn't an Assassin bonus feat and would have to be taken as a general.

Edit: And Sune beat me to it...

interesting!
seems you cant have both crippling strike and all feats prequesite for epic dodge.... why is that?

Probably to make you choose.

You can if you take levels in other classes. 10 rogue and 18 assassin nets you all three for instance.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Bini wrote:

I'm interested in what the smaller, drape-like cloak is thats worn about her neck like a scarf.

There's nothing there. You must be seeing things.

Just an excellent screenshot of quiver-clipping.

Sune,
Question on rebuilds:

I have a PC (Missus) who's been building to HS for many months. She's 18th level and has now taken ALL pre-requisites for the default HS class including the feats and skills which you can see if you examine my vault. She hasn't yet taken her first HS level which was planned to be in early epic. At this point she'll be unable to achieve Master Scout status as she has no more pre-epic feats.

My question is - Am I eligible for a free rebuild? My intent would be to retain the class and rebuild only to the extent of swapping out the Harper Scout pre-requisite feats/skills for the Master Scout pre-requisite feats/skills.

She is heading for Rogue14/Fighter6/Master Scout5 but is currently Rogue14/Fighter4.

If you fit every single pre-requisite (so it's perfectly clear you were aiming for HS), then yes, you should be eligible too.

...Now I want to be a non-conformist and make a PDK character... An actual PDK.

Are the alignment restrictions still in place for Scout and Knight Commander? I ASSUME they're not, but...

No, you know all of their restrictions already.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

No, you know all of their restrictions already.

Can you be more clear on the subject of PDK and HS Levels? Can you still only take 5?
can't find a reference in the first two main posts

PaladinOfSune wrote:

They're both 5-level Prestige classes still.

Jes wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

They're both 5-level Prestige classes still.

Great!

Won't availability to epic dodge make assassins too powerful? I always thought that not having access to that was the balancing factor for all their bonus spells, abilities, and of course the assassin's toolkit. I know it's expensive feat-wise but epic dodge is an extremely powerful feat.

Crippler strike on the other hand, sounds great.

Quote:

The1Kobra wrote:

Won't availability to epic dodge make assassins too powerful? I always thought that not having access to that was the balancing factor for all their bonus spells, abilities, and of course the assassin's toolkit. I know it's expensive feat-wise but epic dodge is an extremely powerful feat.

Crippler strike on the other hand, sounds great.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

In exchange for these awesome benefits, Assassins may feel a slight sting in regards to the power of Kneecappers Knife. But rest assured, it is completely worth it for what they're gaining here.

The only thing rogue has over assassin now is skill points and bonus feats every three levels instead of four, aside from the Evil-only part for assassins. Seems a bit skewed to me, but I like the additions, even if I'll probably never play an assassin.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

The only thing rogue has over assassin now is skill points and bonus feats every three levels instead of four, aside from the Evil-only part for assassins. Seems a bit skewed to me, but I like the additions, even if I'll probably never play an assassin.

Forget that Assassins now have all those extra skills that rogues don't?

No no. I mean that rogue used to be far and away a better choice of class (strictly mechanically speaking, which pains me here but needs to be said). Now, the only things rogue can claim over assassin is 8 skill points compared to the assassin's 4 skill points and bonus feats at 13, 16, 19 (and so on) compared to the assassin's 14, 18.

Other than those two things, assassin now blows rogue out of the water. I'm not complaining, though. I like it.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

No no. I mean that rogue used to be far and away a better choice of class (strictly mechanically speaking, which pains me here but needs to be said). Now, the only things rogue can claim over assassin is 8 skill points compared to the assassin's 4 skill points and bonus feats at 13, 16, 19 (and so on) compared to the assassin's 14, 18.

Other than those two things, assassin now blows rogue out of the water. I'm not complaining, though. I like it.

Yea you better not be complaining

yay... less potions in my poor druids inventory...

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

yay... less potions in my poor druids inventory...

Great for assassins, yay!

What about rogues?

Rogues never ever got one single "boon" to them, contrarily to now -all- (thanks to the new changes which are great btw) classes. Rogues never, ever, ever, got -one single- extra, be it RP, mechanical, whatsover, nada. ALL other classes did.

I fail to believe Rogues are "so good" every single other class deserves some extras, except them.

I was telling myself, when rogue changes where discussed..."Well, at least rogues got epic dodge and some unique feat choices".

The -only- thing they have now is 2 more skill points per level and a few far in between class skills assassins don't. That's -it-.

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