AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Hello guys and girls, ive been working on some kind of barb/wm build for a few houres now aiming for Dev + Thundering/Terrifying
(I got a fetish for high crits) and any input at all would be appreciated.
Been building it in a module i made just setting it to 30 so there could be some Amia specific changes I am not aware of or just
in general, I also couldnt really test it with any subraces so getting 25 str was a pain and I ended up having to cross class tumble.
Anyways heres the build:

17barb/7wm/6ftr

Human 18str/13dex/12con/13int/8wis/8cha

1. Barb - Dodge/Mobility
2. Barb
3. Barb - Expertise
4. Barb
5. Barb
6. Barb - Spring Attack
7. Barb
8. Barb
9. Barb - Whirlwind Attack
10. Barb
11. Barb
12. Barb - Weapon Focus
13. WM
14. WM
15. WM - Imp. Crit
16. WM
17. WM
18. WM - Power Attack
19. WM
20. Ftr - Cleave
21. Ftr - Great Cleave/Overwhelming Crit
22. Barb
23. Barb
24. Barb - Terrifying Rage
25. Ftr
26. Ftr - Armor Skin
27. Ftr - Epic Weapon Focus
28. Ftr - Dev Crit
29. Barb
30. Barb - Thundering Rage

Would this work on Amia? and if it does, would it work with a greataxe or should I go shield?

It would work...but it isn't the best build out there (which i'm sure you know). I have a similar Barb/WM build. I ended up ditching some of the barb levels i'd planned for more fighter. Putting WM into the mix leaves the already feat starved barbie desperately gasping for feats.

Consider overlaying earth genasi on it...free +2 str and con and other boons. What you do lose is that one skill point per level but its minor seeing the ability points you'll save at character creation.

Thing is...this build is so subpar to the classic, fighter/WM/rogue. you'll probably end up doing more damage with it too (you're lacking EWS for example)

Oh...sword and board always. I personally love the idea of two-handering but well...it is and always will remain a subpar choice

Hello everybody! I've been digging through this thread in the hopes of finding the answers I was looking for, but I've either missed it or it isn't here. I apologize in advance if I failed to catch it previously.

I'd really like to play an archer, but I'm not familiar enough with the server to make a build I'd feel confident with. I'm very familiar with D&D 3.5, but it's been 7-8 years since I've played either 3.0 or NWN; it leaves me with an erroneous understanding of the rule system, as well as unique quirks in the NWN engine. In order to make this as concise as possible, I'll list all the requisite info to help facilitate this dialogue:

From what I understand Arcane Archer and Cleric (zen) are the two most viable archer builds. I'd prefer to AA to cleric, simply because I find I don't play clerics well.
I prefer to play a half-elf to a pure elf. Ignoring half-drow, are all the half-elves of moon elf heritage or can they be of any of the elf species?
I don't have a particular preference among the arcane classes. I find them all fun in very different ways.
I'm unsure of what feats I need to take, so advice here is greatly appreciated.
I also have no idea what sort of high-level loot is available.
With the changes to imbue arrow it seems that gaining access to at least 3rd level wizard spells/2nd level bard spells is a strong choice. Is this true?

Thanks in advance for all the help!

Edit: Added a bullet point for clarity.

To my knowledge, a half-elf can be of any elven origin, though you'd have to be careful not to try anything too extreme, such as a half snow elf, without writing a special request first. Suney loves those filthy metrosexual aberrations, so he'll be able to tell you more.

We'd like to know what kind of an AA you would fancy to play, for starters. There are numerous viable combinations, the most famous probably being heavyAA/someFighter/alittleBard. But really, you can go Bard25/AA5, Monk10/AA19/Wiz1, Wizard23/Rogue2/AA5, among hundreds of other things.

Just come up with a concept to sate your RP expectations of the build, have a go at it yourself, send the build here, and we'll instruct you better.

there are many archer builds available, many! perhapa give us a little something on the character concept beside what build it should be?
evil/ good
lawful/chaotic
preferences?
dos and dont

anything you can come up with. it helps us greatly

Very_Svensk wrote:

there are many archer builds available, many! perhapa give us a little something on the character concept beside what build it should be?
evil/ good
lawful/chaotic
preferences?
dos and dont

anything you can come up with. it helps us greatly

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Monk_9/_wizar ... _archer_29
I think this one doesn't get that many feats, but benefits from being monk and can have ac from wisdom, Also other nifty monk bonuses, like immunity to diseases. You'll get tumble dump and improved evasion at 30th level. I'd recommend not to use +ecl races. On the roleplay aspect, it works pretty well too, rping a zen archer.

Wow, quick replies! Well, I've been playing a wizard and been slightly disappointed in her role in a party. She mostly buffs her allies and then fires pot-shots with her crossbow in an attempt to help. Instead, I'd like to make a real contribution to battle with my arrows.

RP: I see her has a chaotic good archer who feels more human than elven. She studied with the elves during her "teenage" years (early twenties) and has been working out their techniques ever since. Using a bow feels second nature to her, and she takes pride in mixing her own magic with the weapon.

Build: This is where I get stuck. I don't want to be relegated to buffing a group of adventurers and then contributing in a mediocre fashion to combat. I've seen a lot of posts stating "that build is no good, it won't have enough AB" or "the damage is pitiful." I'm worried that I'll fall into this trap. I'd prefer a large focus on AA, but I adore the idea of being able to enchant my own arrows with imbue arrow. Is taking enough levels of a casting class to imbue with actually worth it if that's all I plan to do with the class? Also, how necessary are feats like epic weapon focus and epic weapon specialization for bow users?

Edit: Because I forgot to include a question.

Not really. The temporary elemental damage from casting spells onto arrows is a freebie bonus, not a big selling point. It does mean that you don't have to carry a whole bunch of different arrow stacks, but then those don't actually weigh anything, they just take up inventory space.

EWS is pretty handy considering your bow damage is capped by Mighty bonus. I know I'd rather do +6 damage with a weapon than just +2. EWF? More AB with the weapon I use all the time? How is that not good?

The imbue feat is woeful. Dont forget, you can get the same result using scrolls however its near pointless as the uber AA eclipse anything you could ever hope to create with your imbued magic.

The aforementioned builds all work. Because mighty is capped at +5 (i have no idea why, its like the only thing that shouldnt be capped so low imo) ews is very useful so i agree with selmak

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Consider overlaying earth genasi on it...free +2 str and con and other boons. What you do lose is that one skill point per level but its minor seeing the ability points you'll save at character creation.

Someone, please ban me from this thread. Things like this make me want to [remaining post was garbled, seemed to mostly involve pulling of hair and gnashing of teeth].

Well if you don't wanna eat the pie, leave it alone. Its no more cheesy that tumble dumping so get over it. Besides, it's implied that he will RP and change things as necessary. I'm talking from a pure mechanics angle.

Besides, imbuing works only on mundane arrows and lasts 1 hour/AA level

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Well if you don't wanna eat the pie, leave it alone. Its no more cheesy that tumble dumping so get over it. Besides, it's implied that he will RP and change things as necessary. I'm talking from a pure mechanics angle.

Actually, no it's worse. It's subrace abuse. People come here with a concept first and their attempt at a build, asking for help. The help given is not supposed to be 'oh, change your concept to fit the mechanics.' That's exactly what you said.

Funnily enough i also answered his question RE his build so there.

In the absolute sense, its not worse than tumble dumping either but you know what? Whatever.

Quote:

Wow, quick replies! Well, I've been playing a wizard and been slightly disappointed in her role in a party. She mostly buffs her allies and then fires pot-shots with her crossbow in an attempt to help. Instead, I'd like to make a real contribution to battle with my arrows.

RP: I see her has a chaotic good archer who feels more human than elven. She studied with the elves during her "teenage" years (early twenties) and has been working out their techniques ever since. Using a bow feels second nature to her, and she takes pride in mixing her own magic with the weapon.

Tenser's Transformation has been changed so that it's not a polymorph, here. You gain +1AB per 2 levels of mage, capping at 10 but lose the ability to use spells/items except potions.

If you're already a Wizard, you might want to look into sticking with that route and going something along the lines of Wiz20/AA9/Tumble1. Buff you, summon, party, Extend Mass Haste, Extend Tenser, profit.

I've not tried it and since I already have an AA on the go I haven't looked at the numbers, but it might be good. Well, anything with 20 mage levels and smart spell selection can't be anything but good...

@Uberace: My current wizard has a miserable dexterity, a hard focus on intelligence, and is not elf-y at all. I like the direction she's heading development-wise, I just wanted a character with meaningful contributions to combat. However, the Tenser's change is interesting.

I had a few questions about NWN's ranged combat system (I couldn't find answers in the wiki). In PnP if you add an enhancement bonus to the weapon it'll transfer to the ammo: is that the case in NWN as well? Secondly, I read that the enhancement bonus to arrows from an AA stacks with the current enhancement bonus: does that mean 20 levels of arcane archer using +5 arrows will grant me +15 shots? And finally, it seems that if a build takes less than 10 AA levels it's actually more beneficial to replace them with 5 levels of fighter (4 pre-epic, 1 epic). Am I incorrect there?

Build wise, I'm stuck between two builds:[list=]
[*]Spell-Free Archer: Fighter 10 / Bard 1 / Arcane Archer 19 - Attempts to maximize AA levels to gain the greatest bonus to arrows possible.
[*]Support Archer: Bard 20 / Fighter 4 / Arcane Archer 6 - Takes fighter 4 at 24th level to grab both weapon spec & epic weapon spec.[/list]

As far as playing a bard with support music and spells to buff himself/allies, what's the golden rule? Lasting inspiration & curse song both seem utterly necessary.

Xeorsos wrote:

@Uberace: My current wizard has a miserable dexterity, a hard focus on intelligence, and is not elf-y at all. I like the direction she's heading development-wise, I just wanted a character with meaningful contributions to combat. However, the Tenser's change is interesting.

I had a few questions about NWN's ranged combat system (I couldn't find answers in the wiki). In PnP if you add an enhancement bonus to the weapon it'll transfer to the ammo: is that the case in NWN as well? Secondly, I read that the enhancement bonus to arrows from an AA stacks with the current enhancement bonus: does that mean 20 levels of arcane archer using +5 arrows will grant me +15 shots? And finally, it seems that if a build takes less than 10 AA levels it's actually more beneficial to replace them with 5 levels of fighter (4 pre-epic, 1 epic). Am I incorrect there?

Build wise, I'm stuck between two builds:[list=]
[*]Spell-Free Archer: Fighter 10 / Bard 1 / Arcane Archer 19 - Attempts to maximize AA levels to gain the greatest bonus to arrows possible.
[*]Support Archer: Bard 20 / Fighter 4 / Arcane Archer 6 - Takes fighter 4 at 24th level to grab both weapon spec & epic weapon spec.[/list]

As far as playing a bard with support music and spells to buff himself/allies, what's the golden rule? Lasting inspiration & curse song both seem utterly necessary.

Do pick Fighter 8/Bard 4/AA 18 or Fighter 10/Bard 2/AA 18 for a bonus of 4 damage. Well, more like 3, since you will lose one from 19 AA, but sacrificing 1 ab in favor of 3 damage is rather fine. You will have a base of 56 or 57 ab anyways. You hardly ever miss.
The one with 4 bard is to gain +1 ab and +2 damage for ten rounds, which should give you that little extra in dire moments.

Both of those builds pale in comparison to the AA/Monk/Wizard.

MoshingChris wrote:

Both of those builds pale in comparison to the AA/Monk/Wizard.

I know that the monk makes an excellent archer type, but I don't enjoy the monk as a class in terms of RP. I've been trying to stick with something I'd enjoy from a roleplaying perspective, which is what's getting me stuck.

Xeorsos wrote:

Build wise, I'm stuck between two builds:[list=]
[*]Spell-Free Archer: Fighter 10 / Bard 1 / Arcane Archer 19 - Attempts to maximize AA levels to gain the greatest bonus to arrows possible.
[*]Support Archer: Bard 20 / Fighter 4 / Arcane Archer 6 - Takes fighter 4 at 24th level to grab both weapon spec & epic weapon spec.[/list]

As far as playing a bard with support music and spells to buff himself/allies, what's the golden rule? Lasting inspiration & curse song both seem utterly necessary.

You should go Fighter8/Bard3/AA19, because otherwise you'd have to take Bard on 10 at latest, and that wouldn't net you too full ranks of Tumble and UMD. If you go Bard3 pre-epic, you can start with Bard which will gain you a trivially insignificant number of extra skill points, and spare a level to your 20's meaning you land on Tumble20 and UMD23.

Concerning Bard20/Fighter4/AA6, your sixth level of AA is plain useless. I'd rather take Bard21 for an earlier Lasting Winspiration, which is uttermost win in PvM. Lasting Inspiration can only be taken on epic bard levels, y'see.

Well Op is sort of right.

But that sixth AA level could also be taken at 30 for a max spot score.
3 Fighter 5 AA in pre-epic for a boost to AB and the fourth fighter level in epic for weapon spec.

Or then just spare the Fighter feats and invest them in Great DEX II, if you really can't think of anything better?

So i was thinking on the AA builds a bit.

I came up with Cleric15/bard2/ AA 13

Assuming you can enchant Arrows with Ice storm from the clerical side of things. As well as divine might, and any Clerical Buffs. Have not got full stats down or anything yet. just throwing an idea out there. Oh and yes zen archery of course.

Pros cons? anyone?

Ice Storm enchantment one would assume adds 1d8 cold damage?

I am not sure.. maybe i have how it works down wrong.. icestorm the spell does 3d6 bludgeoning and 2d6 cold +1d6 cold every 4 caster levels.. i assumed it added the spell damge to the arrow? perhaps i miss read or was misinformed. Hehe just trying to think of something new

No but you are higher then AA 10 so it does add 2d8 cold.

Using the Imbue Arrow feat on a stack of arrows always applies 1d8 damage.

Just use scrolls and/or ?/day items with the imbue arrow feat and duplicate the arrowstack. The power vanishes after reset anyway.

hehe okay i miss understood what it meant when using the ice storm to imbue an arrow. So scratch the build. Thank you all

Okay, first ever attempt at a caster cleric.

Quote:

Stock Human

1- Extend, Spell Focus 1
3- Greater Spell Focus 1
6- Spell Focus 2
9- Greater Spell Focus 2
12- Maximize
15-
18-

21- Mummy Dust
23- Great Wisdom (if starting at 18 wis)
24- Dragon Knight
26- Epic Spell Focus 1
27- Greater Ruin
29- Hellball
30- (Ranger) Epic Spell Focus 2, Epic Skill Focus (Hide, MS, or Spot- Leaning towards Spot)

Skills: Concentration, Spellcraft, Hide, Move Silently, Spot (requires 14 INT, but I could theoretically sacrifice Hide/MS if I need to lower INT for something else)

As for starting stats, I'm not sure how to set them. Either 17 or 18 wisdom, certainly. After that, I'd like 14 Intelligence for the skills. Anything else, I'm not completely sure on for a caster cleric. Suggestions for that?

Also, how do the feats look and what should I take for the two open feats pre-epic? Anything I should change about them?

Luck of Heroes, Great Fortitude, Silent Spell, Empower Spell, Spell Penetration and toughness comes to mind.

I'd pick great fort and silent spell in this case. If you get domains with sexy offensive spells, I would consider grabbing empower spell instead of great fort.

I think the feats are fine, not too sure on the extra feats. Starting 18 WIS would be best, of course, though it will hurt the stats some:

STR 10
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 18
CHA 10

No Discipline? I took my AA through the Shekat caves to grab that sexy 0.1lb bag at level 23. That was a humbling experience.

Oh, hm. I had forgotten Discipline. That settles it. Hide/MS is a no-go.

Caster Cleric stock human.

8 Strength
10 Dex
14 Con
14 INT
18 Wis
8 CHA

Pre Epic Feats: Lightening Reflexes, SF Evocation, Extend Spell, GSF Evocation, Maximise Spell, Great Fort, Silent Spell, SF spot.

Epic Feats: Epic Spot, Epic Spell Mummy Dust, Armor Skin, Epic Reflexes
Cleric: Great Wisdom 1, Great Wisdom 2, Great Wisdom 3
Ranger: Epic Spell Focus Evocation

Obviously a +1 Wisdom base class would be handily used here. However if you go the spot route you could drop ranger in favor of master scout.

MoshingChris wrote:

...Obviously a +1 Wisdom base class would be handily used here. However if you go the spot route you could drop ranger in favor of master scout.

You mean +1 wisdom race right? Confusing me here for a sec

Yes thats what I meant.

+1 wisdom subrace is not applicable as the character is not from any of those places.

Also, Master Scout seems a somewhat heavy investment for a cleric (super low skill points) to only be taking one level in it, but it is certainly intriguing. I'll have to see what I can cook up.

Been a while. Was monkeying with fighter/rogue/blackguard, and seem to be stuck on whether to use the rogue's level 10 feat for Crippling Strike or Epic Skill Focus (or maybe something else). I have room for two ESF, but want to take it in Discipline, Taunt, and Spot.

Ultimately I can't tell what the better pick is, and could use an opinion on it. I feel like the first two ESF are necessary to prevent KDs and actually make Taunt work, but Spot seems pretty invaluable as well.

Arcadence wrote:

Been a while. Was monkeying with fighter/rogue/blackguard, and seem to be stuck on whether to use the rogue's level 10 feat for Crippling Strike or Epic Skill Focus (or maybe something else). I have room for two ESF, but want to take it in Discipline, Taunt, and Spot.

Ultimately I can't tell what the better pick is, and could use an opinion on it. I feel like the first two ESF are necessary to prevent KDs and actually make Taunt work, but Spot seems pretty invaluable as well.

Crippling strike is decent. I mean, I have a rogue heavy BG who wields a greatsword (still haven't figured out what i was thinking when i choose that weapon) and he can put out quite a bit of damage when hes flanking...easily over 300 for example which is enough to bring most things to near death, so its of questionable usefulness. Course, i'm play a strength based BG, a dex based one would likely get far more use out of it. PVP, it would be far more useful if you managed to land a KD or used darkness or something but even then, its completely nullified by negative energy protection so...

There's always improved evasion to help make use of that juicy BG bolstered rogue reflex save. The only skill focus actually necessary there is discipline IMO and spot of course if you want to see the SD's out there. If i was going to cut one of those ESF's it'd have to be taunt (even though i love the skill).

I want to make sure I'm calculating this correctly...

The build in question has 25 Ranger, 14 STR (26 buffed), Epic Weapon Specialization w/kukris, and BoE. Against a Favored Enemy, this is what I'm calculating for damage:

8 (STR) + 6 (EWS) + 6 (FE) + 5 (Bladethirst) + 1-4 (weapon) + 2-12 (BoE) = 28-41, critical (roll of 12-20) is 56-82

Is that correct? I ASSUME all the bonuses multiply on a critical...

I didn't realize Negative Energy Protection would stop Crippling Strike, which pushes things over to Improved Evasion.

I'm spot dumping so Disc and Spot take priority, but even with Taunt being around 40 without ESF, it seems like it'd be too easy to resist 99% of the time. I'd hate to give up Armor Skin for it though.

Thanks for the feedback.

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

I want to make sure I'm calculating this correctly...

The build in question has 25 Ranger, 14 STR (26 buffed), Epic Weapon Specialization w/kukris, and BoE. Against a Favored Enemy, this is what I'm calculating for damage:

8 (STR) + 6 (EWS) + 6 (FE) + 5 (Bladethirst) + 1-4 (weapon) + 2-12 (BoE) = 28-41, critical (roll of 12-20) is 56-82

Is that correct? I ASSUME all the bonuses multiply on a critical...

They do, yes. But you'll be doing a bit more damage than that. A Flame Weapon spell or scroll, plus whatever Elemental damage is on the weapon will also add up. 30-55(60-110) is more likely. You'll only get half that +8 STR damage on the offhand weapon, though.

Thanks. Just trying to make sure I wasn't losing my mind.

Double question:

1. Why are bards so awesome? Everyone keeps saying that but I never understood.

2. What's the best class to add to make a good bard/wm? Ftr? Rdd? I'm looking for a cannon that can also take some punishment (higher AC) without needing to drink heal pot every 10 seconds.

1: Lasting Inspiration bard song, skill set, spell buffs.

2: I'm not sure WM does well with bard. It's feat-heavy. Bard 25 / Fighter 5 is pretty standard and awesome. Or Bard 23 / Fighter 5 / Rogue 2.

Edit. Oh yeah, for number 1: Curse song, too.

I think what der ment to say was that they are basically the person you always want to party with.
With a bard everything is possible.

They are also fight capable and dont just run behind the party invis.

Well I'm looking for a nice cannon, which means x5 on a scythe with ki critical. So wm is most likely a must have. Now I am trying to spice it up a little. I already have a wm/ftr/rogue and cannon/devcrit wise it's awesome. But in any serious epic boss/pvp/pvm battle, I am forced to spill a whole pack of heal potions becouse of his poor AC. So I'm looking for a cannon with 60ish AC, mostly for PvM. Hence the scythe wm.

Dead wrote:

Double question:

1. Why are bards so awesome? Everyone keeps saying that but I never understood.

Its the combination of Bard Song, and Curse Song, that with Lasting Inspiration, gives the character (and its allies) an extremely high effective attack bonus and armour class. And saves. And skills. A high level Bard Song gives +2AB and +5AC. The Curse Song gives the enemy -2AB and -5AC. Effectively the battle is being fought with a +7AB to your guys, and -7AB to the other guys. Adjust the Discipline and Concentration checks by +/- 8. Saves by +/- 3. And thats only for a level 20 Bard. And the effect is practically indefensible. Awesomegasm.

Dead wrote:

Well I'm looking for a nice cannon, which means x5 on a scythe with ki critical. So wm is most likely a must have. Now I am trying to spice it up a little. I already have a wm/ftr/rogue and cannon/devcrit wise it's awesome. But in any serious epic boss/pvp/pvm battle, I am forced to spill a whole pack of heal potions becouse of his poor AC. So I'm looking for a cannon with 60ish AC, mostly for PvM. Hence the scythe wm.

Try any of the Divine Shield/Divine Might builds perhaps? Charisma based you get massive Damage with decent AC, not to mention the BG and Clerics Buffs, and the Paladins immunities.

If you are dead set on Bard/WM I would probably go simply fighter for extra feats if you want your bard levels high for lasting inspiration, Or if you want less bard levels PM is probably better then RDD for survivability, RDD for extra dmg, But to get 10 levels of each and making it fully worth it youd end up with max 13 levels of bard and youd have to micro manage a bunch of short duration buffs..

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Who is online