AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

LadyJeanine wrote:

Lizzie wrote:

Shrewd wrote:

What is the maximum possible amount of damage someone could hit on Amia and Taking Epic Prowess?

This should be the title of this thread.

Paladin Great Smiter Scythe. Make sure you nail that 4x Crit on your smite and WOOOOOO....

1x 2x 3x 4x
400+400+400+400 or something

Played such a paladin. It was a fun one, It still jumps at 50+AB Without any serious effort, Has a tone of AC/Damage and saves. And looks good, too!

GreatPigeon wrote:

LadyJeanine wrote:

Shrewd wrote:

What is the maximum possible amount of damage someone could hit on Amia and Taking Epic Prowess?

This should be the title of this thread.

Stop trolling!

Paladin (19) WM (7) Ro (3-4) Depending ecl.

Take great smite, X5 crit, the only problem being your great smites are limited so its a hypothetical gamble, its why its preferable to go rapier drop the WM and sit on a 12-20 crit and just do 400-600 damage a crit instead.

Source wrote:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Smite

Quote:

As an example, consider a character with 30 paladin and 10 champion of Torm levels. Smite evil by itself adds 40 damage to a successful smite. For each great smiting taken, an additional 40 damage is dealt. So if this character had great smiting I, but not great smiting II, a successful smite would deal a total of 80 extra damage. If this character had great smiting X, a successful smite would deal a total of 440 extra damage.

The Weaponmaster / Paladin is a great idea, honestly. You gain quite a lot of damage on that crit, but you will loose out on duration and Average great smite damage, since you'll be restricted to maybe great smite 4 or 5
Biggest issue is that a 19 paladin will only get 19Damage + Great smite level damage
While a 29 Paladin get's 10 points of damage more, but naturally much less on a crit.

But yeah, Wield a rapier - It's easier to oneshot people (And bosses) When you have 40% Crit, instead of 20%

I have a Durpari paladin 19 /CoT 10 /monk 1 with 9 great smites that can smite crit in the 700's. He uses a scimitar so that's about half the smites. He also has AC in the middle to upper 60's without really trying. Saves are godlike and ab is decent.

Edit: Downside is lack of UMD. Could've taken rogue instead of monk but monk fit my RP way better. Also gave me evasion and cleave

Shrewd wrote:

What is the maximum possible amount of damage someone could hit on Amia and Taking Epic Prowess?

I forgot the exact number but with gear acquired without DCs and with only self buffs it does not reach 1600 but is give or take 1500 per hit on paper which will never be done.

Theoretically it is possible to do around 4500 damage in 3 hits.

It's unfair to calculate several hits in one round - It's like putting together 3 Scythe crits with great smite

Which is why Chaotic Neutral is grand.

Very_Svensk wrote:

It's unfair to calculate several hits in one round - It's like putting together 3 Scythe crits with great smite

1500 = one crit
4500 = three crits

The Viking wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

It's unfair to calculate several hits in one round - It's like putting together 3 Scythe crits with great smite

1500 = one crit
4500 = three crits

Captain Obvious

But I thought you said I added 3 crits to get 1500, so I rephrased. Nvm.

Would a Paladin with 8Dex and 14Wis gain any benefit from Zen archery?

Yes. +3 AB Default with a potential of +8AB (Maxed wis)

@ Bhaalorian

Theres a really decent build for a Zen Archery focussed Paladin if you want it.

Just don't use throwing axes, you'll regret it.

Only exception to Zen Archery is if you're using an unwilling dwarf as a thrown weapon.

Obviously it'll suit any other character that can used ranged weapons and has a high WIS stat.

hendrack wrote:

Just don't use throwing axes, you'll regret it.

Oh comeon hendrack, Your halfling axe thrower paladin is quite neat

Possibly so at 30, but keeping track of divine favor/might/shield AND a ranged weapon with a max stack of 50 is tiresome.

I'd go Crossbow personally.

Seems more a Paladin weapon.

Sling. Power. David.

MoshingChris wrote:

I'd go Crossbow personally.

Seems more a Paladin weapon.

Depends on the paladin, I recon. An elf would be out of his league if he threw up a crossbow imo.
And yeah, as Opustus said - slings for Halflings!

I respectfully disagree. Wasn't the crossbow viewed as an unsportsmanlike weapon by knights and the clergy (and attached knightly orders) during the middle ages, for its sheer killing power and ease of use? I realise paladins aren't exactly all that but they do hold to the chivalry thing at least, so it's worth considering.

That said, bow + heavy armour is a poor mix, and a sling would work but it would be awkward. Crossbow is probably the better option regardless.

Uh, What?

I doubt your paladin really bothers if it's an OMFWTFPWN Weapon when he stands face to face with that blackguard of orcus...

Depends on the paladin. A lot of them would go so far as to treat their enemy fairly even knowing that they wouldn't receive the same treatment.

Though it's worth noting that unlike in real life, D&D crossbows are somewhat lame (and the distinct lack of obvious unambiguous evil does change some things). As I said, just something worth considering.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Uh, What?

I doubt your paladin really bothers if it's an OMFWTFPWN Weapon when he stands face to face with that blackguard of orcus...

Except that in my opinion they should. They strive to be better than their enemies afterall. Lead by example and all that good stuff.

Also the crossbow was indeed frowned upon when it first emerged, I believe the Pope at the time also threatened ex-communication to those that used it? I'm probably wrong about the latter but people were not happy about peasants being able to pick up a crossbow and kill a knight/king.

Silent2001 wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

Uh, What?

I doubt your paladin really bothers if it's an OMFWTFPWN Weapon when he stands face to face with that blackguard of orcus...

Except that in my opinion they should. They strive to be better than their enemies afterall. Lead by example and all that good stuff.

Also the crossbow was indeed frowned upon when it first emerged, I believe the Pope at the time also threatened ex-communication to those that used it? I'm probably wrong about the latter but people were not happy about peasants being able to pick up a crossbow and kill a knight/king.

Say that to your God when you stand before him.

-"So...You lost because you thought that the crossbow wasn't a honourable weapon to use against the enemy?"
-"Yes, Oh mighty Torm"
-"...And now you're dead, and that blackguard pillaged and murdered an entire village?"
-"Yes, oh mighty Torm!"
-"......."

There's a fine line and a lot of Grey area of course, but that's how i imagine the results would be.

Luckily we don't play in a medieval setting we play in a setting where Paladins use magic which the Inquisition burned people at the stake for.

Sometimes you folks make me wonder.

MoshingChris wrote:

Luckily we don't play in a medieval setting we play in a setting where Paladins use magic which the Inquisition burned people at the stake for.

Sometimes you folks make me wonder.

Was just saying, something to consider. A lot of people do like to use the medieval settings as an example.

Paladins do use magic, yes, but since it's clearly and unambiguously a gift from their gods, there's exactly zero chance that they'll be condemned by those same gods simply for using it. Physical weapons, since they are crafted by mortals and therefore don't have the same standing as gods-given magic, can be subject to deific fiat. I'm with Silent, it's perfectly plausible to believe that various gods frown on various weapon types.

(Yes, I am trying to turn this into another Lore discussion thread.

)

Lizzie wrote:

Paladins do use magic, yes, but since it's clearly and unambiguously a gift from their gods, there's exactly zero chance that they'll be condemned by those same gods simply for using it. Physical weapons, since they are crafted by mortals and therefore don't have the same standing as gods-given magic, can be subject to deific fiat. I'm with Silent, it's perfectly plausible to believe that various gods frown on various weapon types.

(Yes, I am trying to turn this into another Lore discussion thread.

)

*Waves garlic in lizzies direction* Begone! Lore elsewhere!

Lizzie wrote:

Paladins do use magic, yes, but since it's clearly and unambiguously a gift from their gods, there's exactly zero chance that they'll be condemned by those same gods simply for using it.

Any Cleric, Paladin, Ranger or Druid who takes that stance to their dieties gifts will fast find themselves fallen.

I'm curious as to what justifaction you can give me that equates Forgotten realms Paladins to medieval Knights given there are Knight PrC's evident?

I just find it odd that you romanticise medieval Knight-Hood and then try to append that belief to a High Fantasy campaign where it doesn't fit.

I don't see any of the Lawful Good dieties having any issue with the Crossbow. Even the God of Paladins Torm espouses the use of combined arms units to overcome evil. Why? Because the Crossbow has been used in Faerun for centuries perhaps even thousands of years. And because the entire point of a Paladin is to be the foe of all evil. If a beast is immune to edged weapons, and yet is raping and pillaging its way across the country-side, no Lawful Good, or Good diety is going to object to a his or her Paladin turning it into a pincushion.

In fact I'd suggest by the logic silent and you presented that the Paladin dieties would favor the crossbow because it kills evil beings quicker. Which is why I stated that Paladins fit the use of the crossbow better than any of the other ranged weapons.

Paladins can quite easily equate to a knight. They follow a code of chivalry (like a knight), are generally trained to be what they are from a very young age (like a knight), fight in the name of religion (like a knight) and are traditionally seen as knights in shining armor (...like a knight).

Some lands are going to be suspicious about magic. Some lands aren't. The fact there's prestige classes available centered around the hunting of mages makes this rather clear.

As for the weapon issue, that's just going to depend on the local society, the religion, etc etc. I don't think it's correct to generalise here, for or against this. Faerun's a big place. The slavery issue in Mulhorand in regards to paladins is a great example of that.

MoshingChris wrote:

Lizzie wrote:

Paladins do use magic, yes, but since it's clearly and unambiguously a gift from their gods, there's exactly zero chance that they'll be condemned by those same gods simply for using it.

Any Cleric, Paladin, Ranger or Druid who takes that stance to their dieties gifts will fast find themselves fallen.

I didn't claim that using magic inappropriately would be unobjectionable. I claimed that the mere use of it would be unobjectionable. I meant to assert that it's plausible that some gods might recognize a wide range of situations in which magic might be permissible, and at the same time refuse to acknowledge that the use of <insert weapon type here> would be permissible in any situation.

Also, the association of paladins with RL European-style chivalrous storybook knights goes way, way back.

2nd Edition Players Handbook wrote:

Throughout legend and history there are many heroes who could be called paladins: Roland and the 12 Peers of Charlemagne, Sir Lancelot, Sir Gawaine, and Sir Galahad are all examples of the class.

How about we get back on topic, eh?

Wisdom based zen Archer/paldin, anyone?

MoshingChris wrote:

@ Bhaalorian

Theres a really decent build for a Zen Archery focussed Paladin if you want it.

Half-elf Paladin/Wizard/AA
Here's something I came up with. If you want more paladin, let me know. I'm sure I can work something out.

6 Paladin, 1 Wizard, 6 AA, 1 Paladin 2 AA, 1 Paladin, 2 AA, 1 Paladin, 9 AA, 1 Paladin (Total: 10/1/19 Paladin/Wiz/AA)
14/8/10/14/16/14
1: WF Longbow
3: Zen Archery
6: Pt Blank Shot
9: Rapid Shot
12: Power Attack
15: Divine Shield
18: Divine Might
21: Armor Skin
24: G-Wis 1
24*: EWF Longbow
27: G-Wis 2
28*: Epic Prowess
30: G-Wis 3
14/8/10/14/22/18
Alternatively, you could take ESF Spot and another epic feat in place of the G-Wis 2 and 3.

AB: 19+5+4+10(AA)+12(wis)+5(enh)+1(bless)+1(aid) = 57
Damage/hit: 1d8+10(AA)+5(mighty)+10(divine might)+2d8(arrows) = 3d8+25=28-49

Human
Paladin 23 Fighter 6 Rogue 1

14 STR
8 DEX
10 CON
12INT
16WIS -> 20
15CHA -> 18

19 Paladin/1 Fighter
Pre-Epic feats: Zen Archery, Power Attack, Rapid Reload, Extend Spell, Improved Critical Crossbow, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Blindfight

Pre-epic Fighter 1: Weapon Focus Crossbow

Epic Feats: Epic Prowess, Epic Fort, Epic Discipline, Epic Spot
Fighter Bonus: Epic Weapon focus, Weapon spec, Epic Weapon spec
Paladin Bonus: Armor Skin

53 AB

Rather do 20 paladin/1 wiz/9 AA, imo, re: kobra's.

Restricted to Elf or Half Elf though.

That and the half tumble ranks on a two hander is painful.

Yup, I was just going the thematic of his build. I rate the 11 more caster levels higher thn the AA AB/damage.

It was suggested to me that I should post this character concept her for you all to read and perhaps give me some decent builds and so ian taking that advice.
What I would like to play I think is a guy who has just finished up his inital schooling to be a mage. The character "disposition" if you will is that while he is supposed to be traveling around to gain some practical experience he tends to spend most of his time with a fishing rod in the water and a book on philosophy or formal logic in his hands. Does this character sound like someone who would fit in? Of. Course I the player intend to have him engage in some adventures himself however he would definatly be something of a "reluctant hero" a little too cerebral and bookish for the trouble he finds himself in but able to get by through reason instead of brawn. If you can imagine a sherlock holmes type of mage but a bit more blushing and shy in his interpersonal interactions having

It sounds both like a Neutral Good Adventuring wizard and a Chaotic Good bard. Plenty of good builds to fill those slots.

What will this character's prime ability be?

Wizard, yea. Not bard. Most every bard I've ever heard of is charismatic (Because thats where they pull their power from, being a bard and all).

If iam understanding the question right it would be intelligence as I will be making him a wizard.

punisher75 wrote:

It was suggested to me that I should post this character concept her for you all to read and perhaps give me some decent builds and so ian taking that advice.
What I would like to play I think is a guy who has just finished up his inital schooling to be a mage. The character "disposition" if you will is that while he is supposed to be traveling around to gain some practical experience he tends to spend most of his time with a fishing rod in the water and a book on philosophy or formal logic in his hands. Does this character sound like someone who would fit in? Of. Course I the player intend to have him engage in some adventures himself however he would definatly be something of a "reluctant hero" a little too cerebral and bookish for the trouble he finds himself in but able to get by through reason instead of brawn. If you can imagine a sherlock holmes type of mage but a bit more blushing and shy in his interpersonal interactions having

Definitely a wizard, go for it!

Yep! Intelligence will be your more significant stat. I'd suggest doing a mix of Wizard and Rogue because Rogue blends well with Wizard and gives even more versatility to play with than a straight Wizard.

LetumLux wrote:

Yep! Intelligence will be your more significant stat. I'd suggest doing a mix of Wizard and Rogue because Rogue blends well with Wizard and gives even more versatility to play with than a straight Wizard.

How would you divide the classes?
25% rogue to 75% wizard?
Would it be prickish to take my fist level in rogue to get the extra skill points and hit points early on since you level. To 2nd as soon as you walk into the world?

Nah, although I would probably take Wizard as your first level if for no reason other than your first class is the one several scripts and NPCs will treat you as, and if you are primarily a Wizard, your first class should probably reflect that. However, if that isn't really important to you (or your character doesn't necessarily introduce themselves as a Wizard, for instance) then sure!

Depending on how much spellcasting power you want, 3 Rogue is usually sufficient. 10 is even better for the various feats Rogue will yield you. 3, 6, 10, and 11 are the sweet spot levels for taking Rogue as a secondary class, feat wise.

As far as stats go, Dexterity is also useful since you're likely to be running around in Cloth. More AC and avoidance. Constitution is also grand, since it increases your HP and, for casters especially, helps with Concentration checks and Fortitude checks, which Wizards are weak in.

So first level wizard and no more than 3 levels levels of rogue correct? I definatly see him as someone who identifies himself as a wizard more than rogue. (In point of fact the only reason for him to have any levels in rogue would be for the skillpoints and a better chance at not dying as I would imagine there is little chance of me finding others who want to "adventure" with a 2nd level mage.)

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