AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

That's more suited to black or green. Blues tend to be stocky and heavly built and so the concept doesn't relate well to dexterity imo.

What you can do is take advantage of the RDD con bonus and the fact that RDD epic bonus feats are epic damage reduction, and make an EDR3/Dev Crit dragon disciple, which you don't see much.

I have never been good at making builds so here I am listing a little wish list of things I want in a build. My hope is that somebody can give me a build that would work for the requirements and be fun/funny to rp.

1) max possable in crafting of any and all types. Ie armor, weapons, wonds, potions ect.

2) high charisma and good perform and bluff skills

3) specialize in a humorous weapon, like a fish or club so I could use a wonderforged baseball bat.

4) could be easily underestimated by those who do not know him.

Have fun with this peoples, I want others to laugh or at least smile when they see this character.

Str Based Deving Rogue Fighter SDer Halfling and or Brownie.

Nobody would see it coming. Literally.

Don't mean to sound snotty, but if your goal is to make people laugh when they see you, you're posting in the wrong thread. There's no such thing as a funny build. The effect you're looking for can be achieved with any and every build, if you RP it competently in that direction.

To Tormak: Ok, I see what you mean. Sadly you can't throw axes properly with an EDR build, let alone have dec crit on it (what I could come up with just now). Just liked the idea that someone loved axes so much that he/she would use an axe for everything.

To Lizzie:
I think you misunderstood what I meant as I am aware what this thread is meant for.
Laugh at = Potentially badly constructed build ~ build experts would pick apart for its flaws.
Funny = Fun to play ~ entertaining character combatwise and rpwise if you can make him/her interesting. Has nothing to do with people laughing you off the streets.

Personally, what I ment by funny was someone who could get laughs as an entertainer with the build being a good build. Like an orcs blood singer or dancer, dwarven singer or dancer, kabold puppitear or the like. Asking for ideas that might make the character more entertaining in addition to the build.

The character being entertaining comes entirely from the RP and nothing to do with the build, though.

In any case, 30 bard, Blueprint bard, ta.

TormakSaber wrote:

The character being entertaining comes entirely from the RP and nothing to do with the build, though.

In any case, 30 bard, Blueprint bard, ta.

Okay, folks. Here's my first foray into playing a character with a build that actually makes sense.

The theory of it is your standard HiPSer/Dodger crossed with a ranger dual-axer... at lvl 30, in outdoor areas, fully magicked up, his Hide skill should be 115. I had to take some of the feats in a weird order, but I think I managed to squeeze in everything I wanted except for Epic Prowess.

You may now feel free to commence tearing me apart.

S13, D19 (to 26), C8, I14, W14, Ch6

1 Rng 1 Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus Spot
2 Rng 2
3 Rng 3 Dodge
4 Rng 4
5 Rng 5
6 Rng 6 Mobility
7 Rng 7
8 Rng 8
9 Rng 9 Alertness
10 Rng 10
11 Rng 11
12 Rng 12 Skill Focus Hide
13 Rng 13
14 SD 1
15 SD 2 Stealthy
16 SD 3
17 SD 4
18 Ftr 1 Blindfight, Weapon Focus Handaxe
19 Ftr 2 Improved Critical Handaxe
20 Ftr 3
21 Ftr 4 Weapon Specialization Handaxe, Epic Weapon Focus Handaxe
22 Ftr 5
23 Ftr 6 Epic Weapon Specialization Handaxe
24 SD 5 Armor Skin
25 SD 6
26 SD 7
27 SD 8 Epic Skill Focus Hide
28 SD 9
29 SD 10
30 Rng 14 Epic Dodge

Skills: max Tumble, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Heal, Animal Empathy, Discipline, with 6 points leftover to put in... Concentrate? Lore?

You really only need 9 Ranger.

You really want some Rogue/Assassin or basically anything that can actually do some extra damage on top of your standard damage.

Hmm... I went with 14 Ranger because his Rangery hidey-ness is sort of his core concept, and I wanted him to be able to cast Mass Camouflage. You don't think a 7 attacks per round with both Weapon Spec feats will net him enough damage?

Which wont stack with Camo and unless he is some bizarre social ranger, self cast of it should more then suffice. Now if you want bladethirst or something that would work but youd need assloads more ranger for that, enough to probably take Bane of Enemies with it and really dish out the hurt.

Feonir wrote:

Which wont stack with Camo and unless he is some bizarre social ranger, self cast of it should more then suffice. Now if you want bladethirst or something that would work but youd need assloads more ranger for that, enough to probably take Bane of Enemies with it and really dish out the hurt.

Cannot get epic dodge and bane of enemies, or blade thirst +5, kind of pointless.

Feo... RTFW.

NWNWiki wrote:

[Mass Camouflage] Stacks with Camouflage and One with the Land.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_camouflage

Okay, its late, I tried. But with the gear Amia has stacking camo and mass camo is still a waste, just like taking stealthy. A spot focussed build is always going to spot a stealth focussed build again because of the avaliable gear. Either go way more ranger or yes, less, like 9, or 10 and take the 10th in epic swap out fav enemy for prowess.

Course with way more ranger you lose SD'er but thats not a bad thing either if you can corner sneak.

Your damage is going to be depressing, I'm afraid. Better off mixing Rogue with Ranger. If you really, really want a sneaky Dexterity ranger then change your classes to 23 Ranger/1 Rogue/6 SD, but Dexterity rangers are still blah in general and I refuse to hear Opustus' whining otherwise.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Your damage is going to be depressing, I'm afraid. Better off mixing Rogue with Ranger. If you really, really want a sneaky Dexterity ranger then change your classes to 23 Ranger/1 Rogue/6 SD, but Dexterity rangers are still blah in general and I refuse to hear Opustus' whining otherwise.

Here's my silly n00b question, for you, then... if low damage output is my build's problem, then how would 23 Ranger/1 Rogue/6 SD help? I'd be trading 6 points of damage on every attack (from spec/epic spec that I couldn't take as a non-ftr) for 1d6 points of damage on those attacks for which I can manage to get a sneak in. That seems like it would make the problem even worse?

Look up Bane of Enemies.... <3 As you said... RTFW

*Read also... UBER ASS FLUFFY PET

Because you're gaining both a stronger Favored Enemy (the bonuses increase every five ranger levels) and the all-important Bane of Enemies. While this isn't a huge damage increase (+2 from Favored Enemy, 2d6 from Bane of Enemies), you'd have a far, far better AB with this build than the other one, along with Bladethirst being able to give your weapons free +5 Enhancement and Keen. You'd also have an animal companion which is pretty darn good at 23, and will definitely help put out damage of its own.

By the way, Stealthy and Alertness should definitely be swapped out for Improved Knockdown. High Ranger AB + IKD is really nice.

Everyone knows that 10 Ranger 10 Rogue 10 SD is viable aswell right?

Yeah, Feonir mentioned that one. It's all right, but you get the damage problem again.

Not really.

Buff out your strength stop being a lazy bastard. The difference betwee 14 and 26 is only six damage, throw in 5d6 sneaks for the extra 17 damage average and your doing alright. My frank bloke face tanks for 35 - 40. Don't bother about Con, your defensive trick is HiPS.

5d6 is where sneaks start to become very noticeable in regards to DPS I find.

I'd be suggesting the "Better" build though is 10 Ranger 7 SD 13 Rogue. Or for fun, a Strength Based vs Favoured Enemy specialist of 23 Ranger 6 SD 1 Rogue.

I prefer the STR Build that Mosh posted last. Or the dexer 10/7/13.

Everyone seems very convinced that Bane of Enemies is the real deal... I've never played a ranger before, but reading it on paper (pixels) has always left me a bit leery. So, consider this question to be borne of ignorance, rather than skepticism: does BoE trigger often enough to really make it that spectacular? I looked at that feat when I was pondering the build, but the reason I rejected it was that the universal +6 damage from spec and epic spec seemed more reliable than the conditional +2d6 from BoE, which would only trigger against four creature types, right?

Quote:

does BoE trigger often enough to really make it that spectacular?

Um..it triggers on every single attack you ever make on any favored enemy. So yes.

BoE has a whole host of other added benefits; most notably +2ab to you're favoured enemies. You really should take it if going epic ranger. The "optimal" ranger build takes both but BoE is a very good feat and the only reason to go epic ranger.

Actually thats a complete lie. The most important reason to go epic ranger is to get a better animal companion.

I guess what I specifically meant to ask was, do people generally find that enough of their attacks happen to be targeting their favored enemies, that they're really getting sufficient bang for the buck out of having awesome favored enemy bonuses? It just seems like there's an awfully broad array of enemies out there... they will certainly be useless at least some percentage of the time, right? That percentage is what has me nervous. 10%? 25%? 60%? I'd build a test run and try to gauge it myself, but... 21 levels of ranger is a lot of grinding.

If you pick the "wrong" favoured enemies it'll be useless 100% of the time. Pick the "correct favoured enemies" and well...you're laughing.

Fav enemies can and should be picked based on what you intend to do with the char.

With 21 ranger if you take all fav enemies when able its 5. 1 5 10 15 20.

PvP: Human Elf Orc Halfling Gnome covers just about all your issues or.

PvE: Undead (Huge bonus to dmg vs undead.) Giants, Outsiders, Humans, Aberations

Coincidentally doing the PvE also sets you up for the majority of Pc's since presumably unless its a drow you wont be killing to many elves. Swap out as needed to fit the rp. Remember its NWN races, there isnt that many, you might also consider a swap from humans to construct, having a free 2d6 damage on a non-critable enemy makes a difference.

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Actually thats a complete lie.

The only reason to go epic ranger is if the character you want to play is an.. epic ranger.

One that didn't spend a significant part of their lives doing other things (knowing this place, it would involve being a rogue for a tumbledump and UMD. If you find yourself tumbledumping, reassess your diet). I'd base favoured enemies on the areas your character was bought up in to start (animals, or maybe goblinoids for a first?), and then learn as they go along.. It is supposed to represent how well they know things, after all.

Rangers are fun though. 2 hand weapon, Str based. A 30 Ranger has 6 attacks, at +2ab, with 7+2d6 damage ranger bonus on favoured enemies. Add an x3 critical from hand axes and it is fun. I'm used to making L40's so some feats will have to fall by the wayside. Maybe even use a 2 bladed sword for total fantasy schlock! If people can use a scythe to fight, a 2 bladed sword isn't so far out..

Someone make me a super-killy-RDD-PM-bard weaponmaster Scorcerer, with vorpal toenails and the backhand of smiting and dhoom? I can bolt on a cardboard fearless Eeevil personality to use between PvP. rawr.[/sarcasm].

MoshingChris wrote:

Not really.

Buff out your strength stop being a lazy bastard. The difference betwee 14 and 26 is only six damage, throw in 5d6 sneaks for the extra 17 damage average and your doing alright. My frank bloke face tanks for 35 - 40. Don't bother about Con, your defensive trick is HiPS.

5d6 is where sneaks start to become very noticeable in regards to DPS I find.

I'd be suggesting the "Better" build though is 10 Ranger 7 SD 13 Rogue. Or for fun, a Strength Based vs Favoured Enemy specialist of 23 Ranger 6 SD 1 Rogue.

I played that build for several years, with yes, maxed out strength, so I do have a fair bit of experience with it. The problem is the lack of consistant damage because you don't have Epic Weapon Specialization or Bane of Enemies. Anything you meet with sneak or critical immunity you will poke away at forever and face tanking for 35-40 is pretty awful when your AB is 43 at best.

And no way would I not bother about Con, you can kiss goodbye to any sort of decent Fortitude save on a sneaker build if you ignore it. Not all things can be dodged with HiPS and only fail Shadowdancers use it as a crutch.

The better build is 19 Rogue/5 Ranger/6 SD, but that depends if you want to want to go minimum SD. Either way ITWF isn't worth that much unless you're in a habit of hasting yourself and spamming the first three hit flurry, and again, I'd rather not pull that HiPS crap.

Out of curiosity, is there any way PM levels could be made to count when using the craft wand feat. Yes I know this is the build thread but its just a quick question.

EDIT: I'm an idiot, you mean for charges. I assume it's doable, yes.

Probably a simple question, I'm just shite at building and don't have a tonne of experience with the d20 system. I'm playing a fighter/weapon master/rogue and just discovered that I can't take level 11 WM until I hit 20, which means I'm at a loss as to what to take for 19. I'm currently F6/R2/WM10. I'm torn between taking two more levels of fighter - for the feat - or two more of rogue - for sneak attack and skills. Thoughts?

Definitely 2 levels of fighter.

I just hope that if you took rogue in pre-epic on a wm, you at least took rogue on the first level!

TormakSaber wrote:

EDIT: I'm an idiot, you mean for charges. I assume it's doable, yes.

That would be sweet if it could be implemented. Currently i'm playing a caster PM and well...i'm kinda wishing i'd gone along the melee route instead. Casting is just gimped too much with PM levels and the lack of charges on the crafted wands is the icing on the cake.

My 10 wiz/1 fighter/19 PM weeps with you.

I was wondering how others would go about building a "Witch Hunter" styled character.

I was thinking it could have limited spell-casting. It would be focused on using one weapon, much like a duelist, but more based on strength for the attacks rather than finesse. I was thinking either longsword or bastard sword, with 10 levels of weapon master because that seems to mechanically support using one weapon with the increased crit range and damage.

For the base class I was between either using a ranger because of Favored Enemy and the "blood hound" style animal companion (I would use the wolf), but If I went fighter, I could qualify and get into Weapon Master much sooner and have plenty of feat support for the whole idea.

My test build ended up being 10 fighter/10 Weapon Master/10 ?.

1: Fighter. Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Proficiency (Exotic)
2: Fighter. Expertise
3: Fighter. Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
4: Fighter. +1 str. Spring Attack
5: Fighter.
6: Fighter. Whirlwind Attack, Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword)
7: Weapon Master. -Ki Damage- -Weapon of Choice (Bastard Sword)-
8: Weapon Master. +1 str.
9: Weapon Master. Improved Critical (Bastard Sword)
10: Weapon Master.
11: Weapon Master. -Increased Multiplier- -Superior Weapon Focus-
12: Weapon Master. +1 str. Power Attack
13: Weapon Master. -Ki Critical-
14: Weapon Master.
15: Weapon Master. Called Shot
16: Weapon Master. +1 str.
17: Fighter.
18: Fighter. Improved Power Attack, Knockdown.
19: Fighter.
20: Fighter. +1 str or +1 wis. Improved Parry

Starting stats & (at level 20)
Str: 16 (20/21)
Dex: 13 (13)
Con: 10 (10)
Wis: 14 (14/15)
Int: 13 (13)
Cha: 10 (10)

1D10+7 (15-20/x3) +27/22/17/12 with no gear whatsoever besides a regular bastard sword.

Most of the skill points went into Discipline (25), Heal (22), Intimidate (10), Lore (18), and Parry (21). These skills I think not only help the build mechanically, but also fit well with the character concept. The only thing I can't decide is whether I should go into cleric for the self buffs (Mechanics) and to fill out the whole idea of the character being a hunter of evil/cultists/demons/whatever his deity is against, OR go into something like Rogue or ranger to further emphasize the "hunter" aspect by boosting his melee capabilities. I feel comfortable either way, but I guess I'm not sure on how Amia lore paints the Witch Hunter, if at all. I had assumed there was room for it since there is a job and NPC trainer to facilitate the character idea.

If anyone could help out in any fashion with either the build or the lore that exists to support it (preferably the lore), don't be a stranger! I really like this idea, but I didn't want it to feel cheap and forced into Amia. Thanks in advance to anyone who responds.

Well.... things go to level 30 here.... 10 WM doesn't give anything more than 7 WM. IF you go WM you take 5,7,13,16,19.

Ranger can work if you like, but you cant target casters, only other PC races is as close as you can get.

Witch Hunter = Monk (To me at least, free SR)

I had considered ranger, but I originally had planned on wearing plate armor to make up for using a torch in my offhand to help balance out the AC deficiency. With ranger, though, I would be losing too much by wearing plate and not light armor, so I decided rogue would be a better option. At the same time, rogue boosts my melee potential while IC giving me access to social skills like bluff, spot, listen, and persuade along with a nice chunk of skill points. After having thought about it for a bit, I ruled out a casting class like cleric because in general, Witch Hunters in my opinion wouldn't be casting spells but rather carrying around reliquaries, tomes, scriptures, relics, and other holy/blessed trinkets and UMD really fills that flare nicely by being able to read from scrolls and such.

I must have overlooked the WM not getting anything past 7, so I would probably fill those last 3 slots with fighter instead, making it 13 fighter/7 WM. I did know, however, that the level cap on Amia is 30, but I only made the build to 20 because I had no idea what I would be doing for those final 10 levels, but at this point I'm fairly certain I'll be using rogue to fill them.

The most difficult part for me, I feel, is designing the build to be viable (from a mechanics point of view) for the majority of the leveling process. Early game seems to be where most of the hardships come from since the average player doesn't have a lot of feats, gear, and stat points to help out in the first few levels. I could shift around when I take Weapon Master levels and Fighter Levels (after lvl6 since that's when I qualify for WM) but I'm not good with that part of character creation and building.

What do you mean by "If you go WM you take 5, 7, 13, 16, 19."? I thought you might have been talking about the levels I take WM at, but I'm not quite sure if that's what you meant.

As a ranger, I would be taking favored enemies for NPCs like Outsiders, Undead, demons/devils etc. I hadn't intended this to be a character that gears up to kill players specifically, though I would like to hold my own in a fight if things came down to it.

The SR from monk would definitely be nice, and does fit the flavor. I will have to look at what the monk gives to the character concept as a whole before deciding to take it. I wouldn't be fighting unarmed unless absolutely necessary, and again, much of the monk features are rendered useless while wearing heavy armor.

[EDIT] 12 levels of monk just for SR is a bit much.

13, 16, 19 refers to the bonus epic WM feats. It's kinda silly taking ten levels of WM and then stopping when three more levels can net you a bonus epic feat.

13 16 19 actually refers to the +1 AB you gain every three levels of epic weapon master you take.

Selmak, he refers to the +1 AB bonus you get at 13, 16 and 19. Feats are handy, too.

With Ranger/WM, I see a few choices: 21/5/Fighter4, 21/7/Rogue or Fighter2, 23/5/Rogue or Fighter2, 25/5, 23/7. I guess Ranger22/Monk3/WM5 would work nearly as well, if not better. You could flurry and all.

For feats you'd pick the necessities: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Wm. This leads to the fact that you're awfully short on feats, so in case you go with any other than a spread with Fighter in it, you have room for only Improved Critical and Blindfight apart from the WM pre-requisites.

And Ranger is quite comfortable wearing heavy armour on Amia, thanks to the various sources of Two-weapon fighting and Ambidexterity on gear. Improved two-weapon fighting does not require the ranger to wear light or cloth to function.

Yeah. +1 AB for each three levels in epic on top of your usual BAB progression, that's pretty sweet.

What is the maximum possible amount of damage someone could hit on Amia?

Shrewd wrote:

What is the maximum possible amount of damage someone could hit on Amia?

This should be the title of this thread.

No idea what the number is, but I'm positive it's a great smiting paladin with a scythe.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

No idea what the number is, but I'm positive it's a great smiting paladin with a scythe.

I think the best I have ever heard of was around a thousand?

Lizzie wrote:

Shrewd wrote:

What is the maximum possible amount of damage someone could hit on Amia and Taking Epic Prowess?

This should be the title of this thread.

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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