AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

The character I have in mind is a base human.

Do you just take the classes in that order: Cleric/Fighter/Rogue?

Im going to be all Snide and say that from a Solo perspective - 24 caster levels is Divine. ^.^

Yeah. You grab 16 Cleric pre-epic, Then 4 fighter levs to get the 4.th attack, Then it depends if you choose the 24/4/2 or 25/4/1 or 24/5/1 or 23/6/1.

You were going melee, Hmm?
Perhaps the 20STR 18CHA Route will fit you?

Well... it all depends. You could do what Very_Svensk said for mele. I went 24 cleric/4 fighter/2 rogue and built mine before they nerfed some of the cleric spells but nevertheless it is more rewarding in some ways. You take 19 cleric and 1 rogue preepic and the rest in epic. The point for doing this is to stack your epic feats so heavily that you can get Dev Crit + Epic spells. I have mine setup with Dev Crit, Epic Conj, and Epic Summon. Obviously you lose out on the fourth attack per turn forever since the nerf but you gain both Dev Crit and Epic spells compared to just choosing one before.

If you go melee: 23/6/1
Taking Rogue pre-epic is a poor idea, because you will end up with one less AB.

On a cleric with 26 base strength that isn't likely to matter.

To me it's still 1 AB going all in vain, I don't see your point.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you go melee: 23/6/1
Taking Rogue pre-epic is a poor idea, because you will end up with one less AB.

Cleric gives 3/4 AB and Rogue gives 3/4 AB a level. Just saying... also it is a cleric! My Cleric doesn't even have epic weapon focus and he still is sporting 55ish ab at level 22 -.- Lets be honest now. There is a thing as too much ab.

Would a Druid 17 / Bard 2 / AA 11 work all right? Or even Druid 19 / Bard 2 / AA 9? Zen Archer and, well, I haven't even loaded it into my spreadsheet yet to figure anything else out about it. I just feel like there's something I'm missing that makes them utter shit and that's why you don't see any.

It works but the cleric version is better just because cleric has combat buffs and druid is more support buffs and attack spells.

How come, a level 6 Bard (3/4 bab progression) plus a level 6 RDD (3/4 bab progression) has a total of 8 bab, when in theory (according to my calculations), it should be 9 bab?

Have I missed something?

Bard 1 - 0 BAB
Bard 2 - 1
Bard 3 - 2
Bard 4 - 3
Bard 5 - 3
Bard 6 - 4
RDD 1 - 4
RDD 2 - 5
RDD 3 - 6
RDD 4 - 7
RDD 5 - 7
RDD 6 - 8

Maverick00053 wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you go melee: 23/6/1
Taking Rogue pre-epic is a poor idea, because you will end up with one less AB.

Cleric gives 3/4 AB and Rogue gives 3/4 AB a level. Just saying... also it is a cleric! My Cleric doesn't even have epic weapon focus and he still is sporting 55ish ab at level 22 -.- Lets be honest now. There is a thing as too much ab.

Just for the sake of my being right, I present you: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Cleric and http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue. With the 3/4 progression you get your last bit of AB at level 20, which is 15. If you take Rogue on that, you gain Rogue's first level BAB which is a round zero, meaning you're fixed at 14 instead of the maximum you could have, 15. Not that this argument really serves any other purpose than inflating my ego, but I suppose it's better for people to be right than wrong.

And no damn you all, there's no such thing as too much AB!

Derk: I'd just go with a Druid24/AA5/Bard1 or Druid28/AA1/Bard1. The first being better with bow, the latter having more beef in its spells. Both are just peachy.

O'Raghailligh: Bard level six (see http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Bard) is 4 BAB and RDD level six (see http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Rdd) is 4 BAB, so with rather rudimentary maths we get 4 + 4 = 8.

OK thanks. I just thought that with the total of 12 levels of 3/4 bab classes it would be a 9 bab total.

3 bab per 4 levels
6 Bard + 6 RDD = 12
12/4=3
3*3=9

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Maverick00053 wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you go melee: 23/6/1
Taking Rogue pre-epic is a poor idea, because you will end up with one less AB.

Cleric gives 3/4 AB and Rogue gives 3/4 AB a level. Just saying... also it is a cleric! My Cleric doesn't even have epic weapon focus and he still is sporting 55ish ab at level 22 -.- Lets be honest now. There is a thing as too much ab.

Just for the sake of my being right, I present you: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Cleric and http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue. With the 3/4 progression you get your last bit of AB at level 20, which is 15. If you take Rogue on that, you gain Rogue's first level BAB which is a round zero, meaning you're fixed at 14 instead of the maximum you could have, 15. Not that this argument really serves any other purpose than inflating my ego, but I suppose it's better for people to be right than wrong.

And no damn you all, there's no such thing as too much AB!

Derk: I'd just go with a Druid24/AA5/Bard1 or Druid28/AA1/Bard1. The first being better with bow, the latter having more beef in its spells. Both are just peachy.

O'Raghailligh: Bard level six (see http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Bard) is 4 BAB and RDD level six (see http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Rdd) is 4 BAB, so with rather rudimentary maths we get 4 + 4 = 8.

If that is right then I apologize... I forget that bioware is retarded like that so instead of adding the BAB to the total already established it would do that. -.-

That's not Bioware being retarded, Maverick; that's straight out of D&D. If it's retarded, it's WotC who deserves your rage, not Bioware.

It's because DnD doesn't use fractions. There is a variant rule for fractional BAB that would turn the 3/4s AB into .75/1.5/2.25/3.0/3.75/4.50 nstead of 0/1/2/3/3/4, allowing you to add between classes and get the leftover AB point you might not otherwise be entitled to.

Okay this isnt a build post so much as a character post.
Thru some of the rping Ive done with my character lately some ideas have begun to come to light and i need some feedback. The character recently had a eye opening moment to explain me wanting to take her a different route.I stepped back and began asking myself about this character. Where did she come from? Why is she so deeply devoted to Corellon? Why does she always call him father? Was her moment of clarity dvine intervention,self realization or a twist of fate? Where the rping road takes me who knows.
Looking at subraces i saw Aasimar listed under general so it got me wondering. Are there half/elf aasimar? I know the children of gods and mortals turn out to be demi gods, but i was thinking Corellon and a half/elf could explain the diluted bloodline. Or perhaps this character's mother was really devout and he granted her the gift of a child for her dedication.
Now some mechanic wise stuff. Is there a certain time in an Aasimar's life that they manifest wings and if so does a player have to take them? Wings really dont fit this character thus why I ask. If the half/elf aasimar is a viable option for play can you still use the amia heads for 1/2 elfs? Im wanting to keep the pointed ears thus that question.Last question i promise. On some servers ive played a race with an adjusted ECL counts toward the 3 class limit NWN has. Is that the same here?Asking that becuase i still have not thrown the bladedancer concept out the window.

You are not playing a god child.

Yes thats understandable. Im just looking at options to open up roads for character development. Still can the Aasimar blood be rped as say Eladrin Blood? I ask that one because i not for sure Deva's serve the Seladrine.

You're not "aasimar blood" anyways. You are an Aasimar, who has Celestial blood. An Eladrin is a type of Celestial, so yes. Just keep in mind you are not half, or quarter, or whatever. It is fractional, generations back.

On a side note, I think the term 'fractional' confuses many people into making 1/4 stuff. I wonder if a swap to the term 'marginal' would help alleviate that...

Understood. Marginal fits so much better. I dont care to be walking around with wings and a halo.(Sorry just been anti angel/paladin/lawful goodie two shoes since 1st edition.)

Ah just found it. The Ghaele are Eladrin are knight errants of the celestials. And Eladrin were deemed outsiders up to 4th ed.

Thanks again for the help.

ok so sorry for being stupid at building but can someone help me with the whole spellblade thing that was being discussed before?
what classes are good and is it better to go with fullplate/towershield or what? i literally know nothing about building, all my toons are either pure class or built for me lol

i think i want something with ftr/wiz in it but i dont know if and what a 3rd would be besides rog

tsukasa1991 wrote:

ok so sorry for being stupid at building but can someone help me with the whole spellblade thing that was being discussed before?
what classes are good and is it better to go with fullplate/towershield or what? i literally know nothing about building, all my toons are either pure class or built for me lol

i think i want something with ftr/wiz in it but i dont know if and what a 3rd would be besides rog

What race would you like to play?

Wiz 23/Fighter 6/Bard 1 would be neat.. you can replace bard with rogue if you want to have trap skills and such, or spot. You can go str or dex. I recommend being a dex spellblade if you are an elf, although str works fine too. Depends on the race you want to play and the weapon you would fancy using.

Otherwise Wiz 23/WM 5/Rogue 2 is kinky.

i was thinking human with a bastard sword if he can offord it
and is it viable with a 30cap to use auto still spell3 and heavy armor and not use tensers?

Its viable but why wouldn't you use tensers?

When in melee combat casting spells amounts to suicide.

i mean he -could- have tensers as it doesnt take any effort to learn one spell but what i mean to say is it worth the three feats to take the autostill spells? or is it better to simply stillspell what you need and be grateful to have it?

also is it better to go wiz/ftr/rog or sorc/ftr/cot if im looking for a more melee, high AC kind of person?

Well my character is setup more of Rp so he is 23 sorc / 7 BG who has still spell 3, uses epic spells, full plate, etc. In tensers he gets 64 AC with about 46 ab I believe. Obviously my fellow is evil, but if you still want to go that route you can go 21 sorc / 7 bg / 2 rogue for maximum ac and cheesyness.

Maximum what?

Crap caster level.

Piddling mediocre damage.

And only four epic feats.

Its not even cheesy. Its just crap.

MoshingChris wrote:

Maximum what?

Crap caster level.

Piddling mediocre damage.

And only four epic feats.

Its not even cheesy. Its just crap.

Mediocre damage? Wonderforged Bastard sword with +5 and flame weapon + Divine Might + Str + Sneak attack = 40-50+ damage per hit = crap?

Four epic feats yes, mine has five I believe. When you build a character to be a caster and a mele beast you cannot have it all. The cheesyness comes from the fact you now have evasion to go with your fairly solid saves you get from the BG, and full tumble. So 67 AC. It is a more mele focused version of mine. Still spell is also enjoyable and a delight to RP.

i do not want BG or PM lvls as i will be a goodly

Quick Question- Do items that add to spellcraft increase your saves to spells every 5 points in that skill you have total, or are the saves against spells added only from base ranks?

Murex wrote:

Quick Question- Do items that add to spellcraft increase your saves to spells every 5 points in that skill you have total, or are the saves against spells added only from base ranks?

WHat does the Wiki tell you?

Not like tumble. Every five ranks work. You'll get +10 universal saves vs. spells with 50 spellcraft etc.

i just looked at the tensers spell on the wiki
it sounds like you will be forced to wield a +3 sword, which would make it hard to break DRs
lower AC from armor not merging
change your type to elf for some reason which is odd
and the only benefit i see is extra AB and HP
or am i completely retarded and missing the good part of this spell?

also the change to str dex and con, is that to your base stat or? cuz if i buff them and then go tensers will it increase those stats like i think it should or do you get screwed?

please excuse my noobish questions ive literally never cast this spell in my life

Been changed on Amia!

ooh ok will go look ty

the changes make it look better. does the extra d4 to the stats apply to the soft cap or not?
also for other servers how does the spell work?

tsukasa1991 wrote:

ooh ok will go look ty

the changes make it look better. does the extra d4 to the stats apply to the soft cap or not?
also for other servers how does the spell work?

The extra d4 applies to the +12 cap. This spell works like the wiki says for other servers unless they changed it too. Amia's change makes spellswords even more viable.

it appears it would as looking at the wiki, tensers looks crap. that darned soft cap lol
all in all tensers looks more like a "oh i finished buffing and bigbys spamming, now ima hitchu" spell to me, neting some hp and regen capability

And +10 AB >.> Which is a lot, and lets them be effective in mele.

But still only .5 Class which means the effectiveness is limited to PvM.

Yeah, it isn't the beat all ability but it does open up a lot of possibilities. 46 AB on a Sorc is pretty nice compared to the previous 36. (Obviously I am using my Sorc as an example)

Ulir wrote:

Not like tumble. Every five ranks work. You'll get +10 universal saves vs. spells with 50 spellcraft etc.

This isn't clear to me and neither is the wiki. Is it ONLY ranks that work for the added saves versus spells? I'm trying to find out if items with spellcraft can boost the saves versus spells or not.

They can. For every five ranks you have, regardless of how, it adds +1.

they do help out, and increase your bonus to saves vs. spells.

Thanks.

Of course that's only helpful against spells with saving throws. Which is a lot, but not all.

Alright, how about this. It was just first draft, so I'm sure I could use a lot of streamlining. The end goal is a build fit for a Jordain:

I don't know if this has a chance of surviving, though. Suggestions?

@LetumLux: How will the character hit or kill things? Maybe you should drop the STR a bit and take Weapon Finesse, but even then, you wouldn't have much of an offense.

Yes. That's essentially my question.
Also, look again. It has Weapon Finesse.

It ends up with:

I'm not particularly experienced with the challenge ratings of things, and how much it takes to hit something or not, or if there is gear enough to supplement an unarmed fighter enough to allow them to survive without constant shepherding by a mage.

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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