AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Here is a build I made, but I'd like to have it revised in case I made an error or two. If there is anything wrong or overlooked, let me know.
(It's a high Armor Class Pale Master build just so you know).

Human

STR: 9
DEX: 17 (20)
INT: 16 (20)
CON: 10
WIS: 12

L5 Wizard
L5 Monk
L20 PM

1(W). +2 Luck of Heroes, Weapon Proficiency: Martial
2(W).
3(W). +1 Weapon Finesse
4(W). +1 DEX
5(W).
6(PM). +1 Expertise
7(M).
8(PM). +1 INT
9(PM). +1 Shield Proficiency
10(PM).
11(PM).
12(PM). +1 INT +1 Spell Focus: Necromancy
13(PM).
14(PM).
15(PM). +1 Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
16(PM). +1 INT
17(PM).
18(PM). +1 Toughness
19(PM). (+1PM) Epic Energy Resistance: Fire
20(PM). +1 INT
21(PM). +1 Epic Mummy Dust
22(M).
23(M).
24(PM). +1 DEX +1 (+1PM) Epic Mage Armor, Armor Skin
25(M).
26(M).
27(PM). +1 Greater Ruin
28(PM). +1 DEX
29(PM). (+1PM) Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy
30(PM). +1 Hellball

I'm reading these posts about spellblades and it has me wanting to try one. I was under the impression that combining mage/fighter was a non-starter, but apparently there's a way to do it. I see it's usually 23-mage 6-fighter 1-rogue/bard.

My questions at this stage are:
o Does Sorc work as well as Wiz for this build? Is one better than the other? (I'm leaning toward Sorc)
o Does this build make use of Tensor's Transformation to be an effective fighter? Is that how a decent AB is achieved? I've read that a mage/fighter just could never hit anything.

Last edited by Naivatkal on Sat, Jun 18 2011, 1:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:

epic mage armor doesnt have shield ac... so the shield and the ac on it stack with the +20.. everything else doesnt.

Ohhh I get it. The +5 armor AC overrides anything under +5 on your armor, you get your shield, and then just don't have gear with deflection and natural armor for the best result, right? Or, have it and the +5 will override +4 and below.

Sun Dog wrote:

I'm reading these posts about spellblades and it has me wanting to try one. I was under the impression that combining mage/fighter was a non-starter, but apparently there's a way to do it. I see it's usually 23-mage 6-fighter 1-rogue/bard.

My questions at this stage are:
o Does Sorc work as well as Wiz for this build? Is one better than the other? (I'm leaning toward Sorc)
o Does this build make use of Tensor's Transformation to be an effective fighter? Is that how a decent AB is achieved? I've read that a mage/fighter just could never hit anything.

Sorc/Wiz are the same. I picked Wiz because of the extra feats. Sorc is better, most likely, and it's because of the spontaneous casting.

And I believe Tenser's was mentioned as a very good thing to have for the build.

wizard is better... more feats/skills but sorcerer is doable... got a nice 23 sorc/5 cot/2 rogue that worked quite well

the five overrides everything so you wont need any any armor ac/deflection/natural... of course dodge still stacks

Sun Dog wrote:

I'm reading these posts about spellblades and it has me wanting to try one. I was under the impression that combining mage/fighter was a non-starter, but apparently there's a way to do it. I see it's usually 23-mage 6-fighter 1-rogue/bard.

My questions at this stage are:
o Does Sorc work as well as Wiz for this build? Is one better than the other? (I'm leaning toward Sorc)
o Does this build make use of Tensor's Transformation to be an effective fighter? Is that how a decent AB is achieved? I've read that a mage/fighter just could never hit anything.

Wizard and sorc both work. Wizards are great, because you can combine them with weapon master effectively. Lots of needed skill points, meta feats and so on. Sorcerers are great, because you can combine them with cleric, paladin, blackguard, cot effectively. Lacks skill points, but you'll manage. Both classes work great with fighter levels. Ranger too for that matter..

You have around 35-37 ab normally as a spellsword.. with Tenser's you get additional 10 ab (and other things). It's quite essential if you want to hit something with a relatively high AC.. something nasty. Its a must have for spellswords. With my spellaxe's mediocre 35-36 ab, I can do alright in the abyss for example. You will miss a few times here and there, but works. Tenser's just gives you that extra beef for 1 rds/level.

its kind of strange that it works out better for a wizard then a sorcerer mechanically... since sorcerers being innate should have much more free time to practice with a blade then a wizzy who needs to keep his nose in a book... but thats a whole nother topic for discussion!

Murex wrote:

Here is a build I made, but I'd like to have it revised in case I made an error or two. If there is anything wrong or overlooked, let me know.
(It's a high Armor Class Pale Master build just so you know).

Completely worthless party leech designed to take advantage of the hellball/ruin combo in PvP. Your AB is nothing, your HP is low, your saves are ass, your damage is non existent, and if hellbsall/ruin fail to kill, you've rendered yourself completely useless in any sort of combat situation. You don't even get the Winter Wight. You have a caster level of 5, so your spells are even more useless than my caster PM's was.

So basically what you've told me is this character exists for PvP to kill people with an epic spell combo. Get out.

To be fair Tormak makes a valid point. The 11 Wizard 19 PM combo makes a much better valid non party leech. You get up to level 9 spells, you just have to learn them all from scrolls.

Naivatkal wrote:

Can I get some more information on this?

Also, the following:

1) Spellblade stat spreads!
STR 14 (18)
DEX 9
CON 14
WIS 10
INT 17 (20)
CHA 10

STR 14 (18)
DEX 11 (12)
CON 12
WIS 10
INT 18 (20)
CHA 10

Does the DEX really matter that much? Cat's Grace will help, so having a 9 isn't all that bad, but I don't know what kind of armor spellblades usually rock.

2) Do spellblades usually use sword and board or two handed weapons?

3) For Amia is the time of flurry/round/turn/hour the same as default NWN? (ie hour = 2 min, turn = one minute, round = 6 sec)

1. The best options for a spellblade is either high dex with cloth and some form of damage bonus, either EWS, divine might or something like that, or str based with chain mail. All you have to do is get to 18 dex via spells and stuff if you go chain. Probably the most common option.

2. Most use sword and board, but wielding a two-hander is also cool. I use it myself from time to time. Your call. Chain mail, +3 large shield will net you 61 AC. Two-hander 56 AC.

3. I think so.. not sure.

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:

its kind of strange that it works out better for a wizard then a sorcerer mechanically... since sorcerers being innate should have much more free time to practice with a blade then a wizzy who needs to keep his nose in a book... but thats a whole nother topic for discussion!

Yup. The sorcerer gains simple weapon proficiency to work with because of that. The mechanical aspect of it is skill points and meta feats, eh? Also having intelligence as a main ability makes it easier to distribute secondary abilities. But both work. You do have a few more options of multiclassing to a spellsword successfully as a sorcerer with all the charisma supporting classes there are.

Sorcerer 23/Druid 5/Rogue 2 would be kickarse

Most in terms of rp.. the basic animal shapes are soooo much fun. You can get a fine spellblade type of mix and be a druid at the same time. They accept innate powers more than the bookworms, so it should be cool.

You'll get to have five animal or non-animal companions at your side

. Animal companion, familiar, summon, dominated monster and animal empathy beast.

If that isn't fun, I dunno what is.. yuo can call yourself the Zookeeper... or Zoolander if you are insane.

And add some Jobs with animals to that to up the ante to 8!

Ulir wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

2) Do spellblades usually use sword and board or two handed weapons?

2. Most use sword and board, but wielding a two-hander is also cool. I use it myself from time to time. Your call. Chain mail, +3 large shield will net you 61 AC. Two-hander 56 AC.

How do you get to 61? My "spellblade" character (not really a spellblade, but has many of the same tricks) only goes to 59.

Base 10
Dex +1
Fullplate 8
Armor AC 5
Deflection 5
Natural 5
Dodge 15 ( 5 Boots, 4 Haste, 1 Mage Armor, 5 EMA)
Tower Shield 3
Shield AC 4
Tumble 6
Armor Skin 2

Total: 64
-1 AC for Chains
-1 AC for Large Shield

Although for the purpose of shields I see no reason why not to just switch shields and use a Tower since you can't cast in Tensers.

MoshingChris wrote:

Base 10
Dex +1
Fullplate 8
Armor AC 5
Deflection 5
Natural 5
Dodge 15 ( 5 Boots, 4 Haste, 1 Mage Armor, 5 EMA)
Tower Shield 3
Shield AC 4
Tumble 6
Armor Skin 2

Total: 64
-1 AC for Chains
-1 AC for Large Shield

Although for the purpose of shields I see no reason why not to just switch shields and use a Tower since you can't cast in Tensers.

My mage that uses full plate has only 15 tumble, no armor skin and he hits 64 armor. Hrm.

Expertise?

hendrack wrote:

Expertise?

Nope. Divine Shield >.< Just recalled.

Oh, duh, Armor Skin. :shock:

Never mind... stupid question from a terrible character builder.

Alright, thanks to everyone for all the spellblade help!

I have one more magic related question:

What is a more useful school to get a focus in: Abjuration, Conjuration, Illusion?
I have considered Necromancy, and since ruled it out right now.

I ask because I have a hard time trying to discern all the spells that it would a focus would actually help with in each of the schools. And, I think, those three (plus Evocation and Necromancy) are the only 'offensive schools' (in loose terms).

Bump for another question:

When making a char that will have a subrace which has an INT bonus, how does that affect first level skills? I've never checked on this, so here's the example:

Char is going to be Shadovar, created with INT 15 (+2 mod) and first level rogue. So with +2 mod, the skill points are [8 (rogue) + 1 (human) + 2 (INT mod)] * 4 = 44
After applying subrace, the INT is bumped up to 16 (+3 mod). +3 mod on char gen would have technically been different (like in PnP). So it would have been [8 (rogue) + 1 (human) + 3 (INT mod)] * 4 = 48
Would the server add the four skillpoint discrepancy?

This isn't something I am complaining about, just curious. And I think it's why my wizard's skills are a bit off from what I built! lol

Naivatkal wrote:

What is a more useful school to get a focus in: Abjuration, Conjuration, Illusion?

Look at the nwnwiki for the list of spells that belong to each school. There's barely a handful of offensive spells in each of those schools, so it isn't a hard decision.

Naivatkal wrote:

When making a char that will have a subrace which has an INT bonus, how does that affect first level skills? I've never checked on this, so here's the example:

Subrace bonus/penalties aren't counted for determining first level skills. After all, the intelligence score isn't modified until you've already entered the game and spoke to the NPC, so why would it?

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

What is a more useful school to get a focus in: Abjuration, Conjuration, Illusion?

Look at the nwnwiki for the list of spells that belong to each school. There's barely a handful of offensive spells in each of those schools, so it isn't a hard decision.

Yeah, I was having an issue doing that. But, I did think there were only a few when I looked so I thought I was just miscounting things. Thanks, that helps!

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

When making a char that will have a subrace which has an INT bonus, how does that affect first level skills? I've never checked on this, so here's the example:

Subrace bonus/penalties aren't counted for determining first level skills. After all, the intelligence score isn't modified until you've already entered the game and spoke to the NPC, so why would it?

Yes, I know, that's why I was curious if the server functioned in giving the points to you after calculating what the subrace would have been (ie after you activate the subrace). I didn't think so, but I was curious if it did. From what you said, my impression is I was right, so thank you again =D

I was thinking about two different character builds and which one would be the most advantageous.

cleric18/bard1/pm 10

or

barbarian18/bard1/pm

The cleric variant will probably have a bit more ac and of course, handy spells to use. Though it would probably have only around 300 hp.

The barbarian variant would probably cause a bit more damage and have 600 hp. Your thoughts?

psycho wrote:

I was thinking about two different character builds and which one would be the most advantageous.

cleric18/bard1/pm 10

or

barbarian18/bard1/pm

The cleric variant will probably have a bit more ac and of course, handy spells to use. Though it would probably have only around 300 hp.

The barbarian variant would probably cause a bit more damage and have 600 hp. Your thoughts?

Requirements

To qualify as a pale master, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria:

Alignment: any non-good

Arcane spellcasting: level 3 or higher

psycho wrote:

1) Post two character builds that are entirely different.
2) Don't post any sort of concept
3) ???
4) Profit denied

What is the concept for the character? You are not going to get much help in this thread when your post screams 'I just want to mash things and try to be awesome in PvP'

So I'm torn. I'm considering making a pirate - a cutthroat, soulless scallywag, to be exact. I feel that I can go one of two directions: Fighter 6 / WM 7 / Rogue 17 (Epic Dodge, Rapier) for the fencer, or Fighter 6 / SD 6 / Rogue 16 (Epic Dodge, Short Sword [Machete]) for the more deceptive, intrigue, agent-type. Either way, he's gonna' be Chultan - Amia has a piss-poor amount of color in its folks that aren't primary colors, if you know what I mean.

Chult doesn't do pirates.

Okay I am building a bard20 / rdd10
going for lasting inspiration. My question is when I got it all worked out I only had enough feats for EWF and not epic prowess. Should I take.prowess over focus? Going for damage hence no cleave or anything.

Could be coloured without being chultan?

Could be mulan
Could be calishite
Could be plain default human, too.

oshizo2 wrote:

Okay I am building a bard20 / rdd10
going for lasting inspiration. My question is when I got it all worked out I only had enough feats for EWF and not epic prowess. Should I take.prowess over focus? Going for damage hence no cleave or anything.

Uh, Lasting Winspiration, EWF, Armour Skin, Epic Prowess/Great Strength I, should be your pick. Always choose EWF over Epic Prowess; the OMGOMGOMG EPIC PROWESS applies only to WM as a must.

thank you that's what i was wondering

You'll have shitloads of AC
Shitloads of AB.
But shitless of HP.

On a 10/20

You'll have +2 AC more due to RDD.

You'll have +2 AB more due to RDD.

30 Bard gets the same. +2 AC more on Song, +2 AB effective on song. +12 More Skillpoints from song.

Not that I'm saying don't go 20/10 just that Svensk statement is inherently false.

If you grab RDD 8 Pre-epic as soon as you can, you'll get extra skillpoints too due to the Extra +2INT you get, Mind.
And it's not false - It's what it is. A statement that its a decent build that will lack HP.

You get the +2 int at level 9 RDD. Which taken at 21 is a whopping 10 more skillpoints.

You get +30 HP and the RDD bonii.

I didn't say it was a bad build I'm saying your statement is false that theres a huge AB increase.

Curse is party wide.

Song is party wide.

For Bard neither are applicable when considering AB and AC because everyone gets them as opposed to EMA.

Breaking it down a Bard with 40 Strength is working on 35 Base AB at level 30. Add in GMW, War Cry, Bless, Aid, Battletide and Song. 48. Weapon profs. 52 AB. Not huge in the slightest when your Average pure fighter looks at 44 with profs and +4 Weapon +2 Aid/Bless +2 War Cry +2 Battletide sits it on 54. Add three as a stock weapon master 57. Thats +5 AB more than said Bard which negates the Curse Song component. The weapon masters increased threat range and modifier overrides the five AC netted by Song due to the fact they are killing creatures at a faster rate.

That is effectively the argument and why I'm saying the statement is false.

Quick question about bonus feats.

Do the wizard bonus feats expand in epic the same way fighter and rogue bonus feats do? Got a wizard who's taking wiz20 at char level 21+, wanting to take epic spell focus but not sure if I can or if I have to burn the feat on something else.

Thanks.

serbiris wrote:

Quick question about bonus feats.

Do the wizard bonus feats expand in epic the same way fighter and rogue bonus feats do? Got a wizard who's taking wiz20 at char level 21+, wanting to take epic spell focus but not sure if I can or if I have to burn the feat on something else.

Thanks.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Wizard#Epic_wizard

Read that, but it's ambiguous in specific regards to my issue (pre-epic wizard bonus feats).

Namely the line in Fighter about pre-epic bonus feats, "If the character is an epic character, then the epic fighter bonus feats are also available" which I couldn't find on the wizard page.

However, re-reading I found the section in Wizard where it echoes the same line. Not sure how I missed it, I think the page is just poorly organised. In any case, question is answered!

serbiris wrote:

Read that, but it's ambiguous in specific regards to my issue (pre-epic wizard bonus feats).

Namely the line in Fighter about pre-epic bonus feats, "If the character is an epic character, then the epic fighter bonus feats are also available" which I couldn't find on the wizard page.

However, re-reading I found the section in Wizard where it echoes the same line. Not sure how I missed it, I think the page is just poorly organised. In any case, question is answered!

Ah hah, re-reading your post I still thought you meant epic feats, my mistake! Though at least it turned into an answer XD

You will be able to take Epic Spell Focus on Wizard 20 at level 21 in either of the available feats you get at that level.

Well I'll wind up with 36 strength. here are my base statistics going to max strength and charisma.
24 strength
14 dexterity
12 constitution
8 wisdom
14 intelligence
20 charisma
That's with the bonuses added in so that's what about 50 an. Chain shirt large shield. That should pretty good right.

Wait that's 16 intelligence right yeah

CHA 18 is plenty enough.

I'm trying to come up with a build for a Paladin (or Cleric of a Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral Deity) to suit a personality I have in mind, but I don't want to just start building him, then realize I've made a horrible mistake later on and have to end up getting him rebuilt from the ground up. I'm going for high AC and Charisma, being able to use diplomacy with the best of them while still contributing to a party. Is this the place to ask for ideas, or should I just come up with something and then paste it here?

As I speak, I'm currently going through the build thread(s) looking, but it's a long, long, lonesome road...

Paladin/Cleric 25 Fighter 4 Skilldumpclass 1 is one of the gold standards. Wether more STR or more CHA is your call. If you make an elf high DEX and 18 CHA (30 buffed = 10 divine might/shield) along with a longbow could be interesting too. Zen archer caster cleric with 18 CHA works too.

Or Cleric23/Fighter6/Dump1 for that matter, because the CHA cleric is going through a lot of trouble trying to afford all the required feats already and that fourth attack wouldn't hurt you either.

23 6 1 is the gold standard now if you want the fourth attack.

Helpful to know what base race you plan on using though since it changes up the builds.

I prefer 24 Caster levels.
Like 24/4/2

Quote:

■Most of the spells of a level 24 caster are immune to greater dispelling, as the dispeller's best possible roll is 35 (20+15), while the DC is 36 (12+24).

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Greater_dispelling source

On a server with Mords readily available to everyone that really doesn't apply.

Having a higher caster level is still universally helpful though!

Sure on a caster cleric.

Except this is a melee cleric and the fourth attack is more helpful from a PvM and PvP flurry perspective.

For a Paladin I completely agree 24 Paladin 4 Fighter 2 Rogue is amazing.

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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