AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Alright, because otherwise, standard nwn, mighty rage is a sepparate rage that you can activate.

What happens when you have the Mighty feat is that all your Rages do the same thing, so your pre-existing Rages get the HP/Vampy/Saves buff from Mighty and the three uses of Mighty Rage that you'd put on the quickbar get the benefits of whatever your Rage was before. The save bonus is a little off in terms of stacking, if I recall.

Since the dev crit is now balanced somehow, wouldn't it make sense to remove the rdd nerfs? it'll mean +2 ab and +2 ac? doesn't make a huge difference , but make the class a little more fun? at best it'll be 10% more hits and 10% less dmg in the end. Also would give a better reason to pursue the full prestige class.

+2 ab and ac doesn't make a huge difference? Not to mention skills and damage.

skills and damage? sure dmg improves, but if you forego the last 6 lvls, and take fighter instead, you have epic weapon especialization and more ab to compensate anyway. I just figure it won't make a huuge diference, and yet make the full class more enjoyable.

survivor2009 wrote:

Since the dev crit is now balanced somehow, wouldn't it make sense to remove the rdd nerfs? it'll mean +2 ab and +2 ac? doesn't make a huge difference , but make the class a little more fun? at best it'll be 10% more hits and 10% less dmg in the end. Also would give a better reason to pursue the full prestige class.

No. RDD's are still FOTM because of all the free shit for nothing they get just like PM's.

(red) wyrmling form + imp expertise is very very good combination

Feonir wrote:

survivor2009 wrote:

Since the dev crit is now balanced somehow, wouldn't it make sense to remove the rdd nerfs? it'll mean +2 ab and +2 ac? doesn't make a huge difference , but make the class a little more fun? at best it'll be 10% more hits and 10% less dmg in the end. Also would give a better reason to pursue the full prestige class.

No. RDD's are still FOTM because of all the free shit for nothing they get just like PM's.

Yeah RDD is still a disgusting class. PM nerfs, what? :3

If any change is made to RDD, it would be to correct the level progression so you can't just cheese it out with four levels.

Yah. Having str +2 bonuses added at level 4 and 10 instead of 2 and 4 or something like that would be a neat.

That's going to be a pain to do retroactively, for sure. But it's a better idea than what I came up with.

That's gonna F up a number of characters and make people pretty darn mad. And it's also for the IA forum! Do eeet

Last edited by hendrack on Sun, Jun 12 2011, 20:29 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Actually, no Svensk. IA isn't for discussing stuff like that. General discussion. Mosh wants his forum clean without 5 pages of ... lets call it "discussion".

Whatevs. Anywhere but here

Lascivar wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

Wasn't quite sure on stats (other than lolWIS), and skills I can figure. Dunno if STR/DEX/CON even matter because of shifting and all

I -think- they somehow get counted (I've never made a shifter, never want to either) because if you recall all of those Wis stacked shifter dragons that had Monk levels taken for the AC? Although it may have been purely from Wis gear, I don't know.

Btw, a bit late, but here goes. You do actually benefit from high str, dex, or con scores. If your ability scores are superior to the the ones of the shapes, they are overwritten. I have a Risen Lord shifter (yes, Cory was first) who has dev crit with his scythe. Works neatly if you focus on melee shapes.

How many levels of Blackguard are necessary to get all of the (useful) Blackguard stuff? I was planning to build a Drow BG/either Barbarian or Fighter (I would consider other classes too, If anyone has some recommendations). Looking at the sidebar, It seems it would be 18 BG levels, with 14 wisdom?

16 BG levels. That way you net +4AC/and can grab the epic fiend summon on the spare BG Feat.

Ulir wrote:

Lascivar wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

Wasn't quite sure on stats (other than lolWIS), and skills I can figure. Dunno if STR/DEX/CON even matter because of shifting and all

I -think- they somehow get counted (I've never made a shifter, never want to either) because if you recall all of those Wis stacked shifter dragons that had Monk levels taken for the AC? Although it may have been purely from Wis gear, I don't know.

Btw, a bit late, but here goes. You do actually benefit from high str, dex, or con scores. If your ability scores are superior to the the ones of the shapes, they are overwritten. I have a Risen Lord shifter (yes, Cory was first) who has dev crit with his scythe. Works neatly if you focus on melee shapes.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that.
Course, I would need to juggle the WIS into STR, then, which would Construct and Outsider shapes.... but Undead was the only real one I wanted for him. Construct the only thing was Flesh shape and with Outsider Rakasha.

Hmmm

Very_Svensk wrote:

16 BG levels. That way you net +4AC/and can grab the epic fiend summon on the spare BG Feat.

Alright, thanks.

So, since I'm going Drow, It would be 12fighter/16BG? pre-epic 10/10?
What should the stats be? obviously 14 WIS, How high should CHA/STR be?

What are some Awesome/Must Have/Useful/etc Feats for this type of build? Should I go for Dev Crit? I'm pretty sure Divine Might + Shield are useful.

AcousticShredder wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

16 BG levels. That way you net +4AC/and can grab the epic fiend summon on the spare BG Feat.

Alright, thanks.

So, since I'm going Drow, It would be 12fighter/16BG? pre-epic 10/10?
What should the stats be? obviously 14 WIS, How high should CHA/STR be?

What are some Awesome/Must Have/Useful/etc Feats for this type of build?

10 Fighter/ 2 Rogue/ 16 BG would be optimal. As far as Cha and Str... aim for 25 or 26 str for dev crit and as much charisma you can get.

It's been a long time since I make a new char and even longer since I had a rouge, so I've come for help.

I want a dart-throwing hin. I picture a guy who's spent so much time in various inns throwing darts for fun that's he's become a natural, so uses them in battle. He's feisty, quick to start a fight, doesn't learn from his mistakes. He's sneaky and likes the advantage of ranged attacks.I see his align being CN.

So far I've come up with:

Strongheart Halfling (ECL+2)

Rogue-19 Fighter-8 Ranger-1
Str-18
Dex-18 ->26
Con-12
Wis-8
Int-12
Cha-8

Pre-epic feats: Luck of Heroes, Blind Fight, Wpn Foc-dart, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, ??, ?? (Great Fort, Iron Will)

Epic feats: Grt Dex I, EWS-dart, Epic Dodge

Ranger feat: EWF
Fighter feats: Called Shot, Dodge, Wpn Spec-dart, Armor Skin, Epic Prowess

Rogue feats: Crippling Strike, Impv'd Evasion, Def. Roll, Slippery Mind (or ESF:hide)

How does this sound so far? Any helpful suggestions on Ability Stats, Feats, etc. are welcome.

Maverick00053 wrote:

10 Fighter/ 2 Rogue/ 16 BG would be optimal. As far as Cha and Str... aim for 25 or 26 str for dev crit and as much charisma you can get.

Thanks again.

Why 2 Rogue levels? When would the first one be taken?

2 Rogue = Free Evasion.

Naivatkal wrote:

Ah, I wasn't aware of that.
Course, I would need to juggle the WIS into STR, then, which would Construct and Outsider shapes.... but Undead was the only real one I wanted for him. Construct the only thing was Flesh shape and with Outsider Rakasha.

Hmmm

Ya, it works best with undead since there is no requirements for your wisdom score, however you might be able to figure out something regarding secondary stats if you are going for outsider shapes. There was a downloadable chart of all the shifters with their stats covered which should help you greatly before choosing what abilities you want. Dunno if it is still available.. will take a look and post a link if I can find it.

Edit: Nothing on the forum. I have the chart lying around somewhere on my other pc, but it is broken still, so can't help you with it, sorry

Sun Dog wrote:

It's been a long time since I make a new char and even longer since I had a rouge, so I've come for help.

I want a dart-throwing hin. I picture a guy who's spent so much time in various inns throwing darts for fun that's he's become a natural, so uses them in battle. He's feisty, quick to start a fight, doesn't learn from his mistakes. He's sneaky and likes the advantage of ranged attacks.I see his align being CN.

So far I've come up with:

Strongheart Halfling (ECL+2)

Rogue-19 Fighter-8 Ranger-1
Str-18
Dex-18 ->26
Con-12
Wis-8
Int-12
Cha-8

Pre-epic feats: Luck of Heroes, Blind Fight, Wpn Foc-dart, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, ??, ?? (Great Fort, Iron Will)

Epic feats: Grt Dex I, EWS-dart, Epic Dodge

Ranger feat: EWF
Fighter feats: Called Shot, Dodge, Wpn Spec-dart, Armor Skin, Epic Prowess

Rogue feats: Crippling Strike, Impv'd Evasion, Def. Roll, Slippery Mind (or ESF:hide)

How does this sound so far? Any helpful suggestions on Ability Stats, Feats, etc. are welcome.

If you're going to pick darts, I strongly suggest picking out EWS. +4 damage to the weapon you use most? Score!

You may also get some fair mileage out of Improved Critical. If you max out on STR with your gear and buffs, all the more reason to have it, since darts use all of your STR bonus when calculating damage, and hence critical damage. Granted, your Sneak Attack dice won't get multiplied in the event of a critical, but it's still added on to the final total. Ouchies for anything unlucky enough to take a critical and a sneak in the same attack.

12 CON is barely adequate. If you're planning on seriously boosting this with gear or buffs, fine. Otherwise, think how often you're going to be sucking grass without more hitpoints.

If you get attacked at close range and retaliate with darts, you're going to get a fair number of incoming attacks of opportunity. For that reason, you may want to take Mobility, which gives you +4 Dodge AC against Attacks of Opportunity. If you're going to switch to melee to avoid those attacks of opportunity, then take Weapon Finesse so you have a decent attack roll when fighting in melee.

Something else not build-related that you will need to think about is that darts do not automatically reload when ammunition runs out. You will need to have stacks of darts ready to load using a hotkey if you want to avoid charging into melee with your fists of steel. :lol:

Another thing. Sneak attacking with a ranged weapon requires you to be fairly close to the target. Not saying that you can't take advantage of range, but if you fling darts at the furthest possible range, you won't get a Sneak Attack. It's another good reason to have EWS in darts, so that you will be guaranteed to do some serious damage even without your Sneak Attack dice.

Okay, So this is what I came up with

Quote:

STR 18 > 26
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 14

Fighter 7
Blackguard 10
Fighter 2
Rogue 1
Blackguard 6
Fighter 1
Rogue 1

PRE EPIC

Power Attack & Cleave
Wep Focus GreatSword
Blind-Fight
Wep Spec GS
Great Cleave & Toughness
Imp Crit GS
Divine Shield
Divine Might
Knockdown & Extra Smiting (Was unsure what to take at this level)

EPIC

Overwhelming Crit GS
EWF GS
Great STR I
Epic Fiendish Servant
EWS GS & Dev Crit GS

With such low INT I could only Max out Discipline and Tumble, No UMD.
With CON being so low he had really low hit points.

I think that this build will be really hard to level and play, anyone have suggestions for feats, etc to make it better and give it more survivability?
How would the build do If i dropped Dev Crit, lowered STR and put points into CON instead?

You can survived without UMD to be honest. Get potions or wands. Also... your hp won't be that low and why in the world would you ever consider dropping Dev Crit for more hp? Dev Crit is still powerful and the only reason for going strength based. With 10 base con you can get +6 from gear... you can have around 400ish give or take some. Seriously, you can survive with 300 hp as a fighter and 400 tends to be real solid.

Alright, Thanks for the advice!
So, Is the build good how it is? Any feats I should replace?

Wands need UMD, you dork! Take it from the non UMDer...

TormakSaber wrote:

Wands need UMD, you dork! Take it from the non UMDer...

>_> Well... how much umd do wands take? Cause you have like 1 leftover from maxing tumble.

More than 1.

You still got potions >.>

AcousticShredder wrote:

Okay, So this is what I came up with

Quote:

STR 18 > 26
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 14

Fighter 7
Blackguard 10
Fighter 2
Rogue 1
Blackguard 6
Fighter 1
Rogue 1

PRE EPIC

Power Attack & Cleave
Wep Focus GreatSword
Blind-Fight
Wep Spec GS
Great Cleave & Toughness
Imp Crit GS
Divine Shield
Divine Might
Knockdown & Extra Smiting (Was unsure what to take at this level)

EPIC

Overwhelming Crit GS
EWF GS
Great STR I
Epic Fiendish Servant
EWS GS & Dev Crit GS

With such low INT I could only Max out Discipline and Tumble, No UMD.
With CON being so low he had really low hit points.

I think that this build will be really hard to level and play, anyone have suggestions for feats, etc to make it better and give it more survivability?
How would the build do If i dropped Dev Crit, lowered STR and put points into CON instead?

Why not 8 dex and 12 int?

DerkDerkistan wrote:

AcousticShredder wrote:

Okay, So this is what I came up with

Quote:

STR 18 > 26
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 14

Fighter 7
Blackguard 10
Fighter 2
Rogue 1
Blackguard 6
Fighter 1
Rogue 1

PRE EPIC

Power Attack & Cleave
Wep Focus GreatSword
Blind-Fight
Wep Spec GS
Great Cleave & Toughness
Imp Crit GS
Divine Shield
Divine Might
Knockdown & Extra Smiting (Was unsure what to take at this level)

EPIC

Overwhelming Crit GS
EWF GS
Great STR I
Epic Fiendish Servant
EWS GS & Dev Crit GS

With such low INT I could only Max out Discipline and Tumble, No UMD.
With CON being so low he had really low hit points.

I think that this build will be really hard to level and play, anyone have suggestions for feats, etc to make it better and give it more survivability?
How would the build do If i dropped Dev Crit, lowered STR and put points into CON instead?

Why not 8 dex and 12 int?

Yar. That works. +2 from a potion and +2 on your gear somewhere or just drink potions till you get the +4.

Well whatever you do, don't spend your early levels waving a greatsword around, 'cause you will die real fast. To goblins.

Urm....a twohander with Great Cleave is a complete monster at ultra-lowbie. Just wear a Swordsman Belt, a Lizardskin Cloak and chug Misty potions and run around wiping out entire spawns in one round.

You could, but at ultra-lowbie virtually all your gold will go on potions, leaving nothing to equip yourself with. A basic tower shield can be had for peanuts and provides +3 AC. Considering AC is something you sorely lack early on, this is a bargain.

Also, Great Cleavage doesn't enter the picture until at least level 5, assuming you have already picked out Power Attack and Cleave. You need to have a BAB of 4 to take the feat, which you don't have until you've taken level 4.

A Lizardskin cloak is great if you can get hold of one. You can't right away, so you have to make do with what you can find.

I don't even bother with healing or ability buff potions until higher levels when I have more disposal income. Healer kits work fine.

Uberuce wrote:

Urm....a twohander with Great Cleave is a complete monster at ultra-lowbie. Just wear a Swordsman Belt, a Lizardskin Cloak and chug Misty potions and run around wiping out entire spawns in one round.

No, the first 1k of money goes into an archers belt and with the potions of the blue hue you get for free, you wont need potions afterwards. After that you get a couple of loot and you don't have to worry again. By that time the twohander kicks ass. Instead of the tower shield I'd buy a brooch of shielding, which is also peanuts with 1k or such.

If you're going for a low-CON build, you can't go turning your nose up at sword and board just because you've picked out a two-hander to use when you reach the end of the build. Seen the whole 'Oh crap my misty just burned out, chug, attack of opportunity, splat' movie you know.

AcousticShredder wrote:

Okay, So this is what I came up with

Quote:

STR 18 > 26
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 14

Fighter 7
Blackguard 10
Fighter 2
Rogue 1
Blackguard 6
Fighter 1
Rogue 1

PRE EPIC

Power Attack & Cleave
Wep Focus GreatSword
Blind-Fight
Wep Spec GS
Great Cleave & Toughness
Imp Crit GS
Divine Shield
Divine Might
Knockdown & Extra Smiting (Was unsure what to take at this level)

EPIC

Overwhelming Crit GS
EWF GS
Great STR I
Epic Fiendish Servant
EWS GS & Dev Crit GS

With such low INT I could only Max out Discipline and Tumble, No UMD.
With CON being so low he had really low hit points.

I think that this build will be really hard to level and play, anyone have suggestions for feats, etc to make it better and give it more survivability?
How would the build do If i dropped Dev Crit, lowered STR and put points into CON instead?

I'd suggest taking rogue as your first level for the extra skill points.

I wouldn't.

1 AB is worth about 24 Skillpoints.

MoshingChris wrote:

I wouldn't.

1 AB is worth about 24 Skillpoints.

+1

Selmak wrote:

You could, but at ultra-lowbie virtually all your gold will go on potions, leaving nothing to equip yourself with. A basic tower shield can be had for peanuts and provides +3 AC. Considering AC is something you sorely lack early on, this is a bargain.

Also, Great Cleavage doesn't enter the picture until at least level 5, assuming you have already picked out Power Attack and Cleave. You need to have a BAB of 4 to take the feat, which you don't have until you've taken level 4.

Have you played an ultralowbie Great Cleaver?

Selmak wrote:

A Lizardskin cloak is great if you can get hold of one. You can't right away, so you have to make do with what you can find.

What do you mean "if"? More like when... :lol:

Consider dex 8 as someone said. Int 12 isnt ok. 13 is ok (IKD)

Consider if you want 14 wis too. Holy sword is merely meh. Starting with a 17 str would free up a lot of points to round out your stats but well...

1 AB is worth at least 33 skill points oh god why can't I have 50 AB WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Selmak wrote:

Also, Great Cleavage doesn't enter the picture until at least level 5, assuming you have already picked out Power Attack and Cleave.

I some how think there should also be a minimum charisma modifier in that case, but that is just me.

Otherwise, yes, in a build, AB is greater than skills.

Last edited by Selmak on Mon, Jun 13 2011, 20:51 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Uberuce wrote:

Have you played an ultralowbie Great Cleaver?

I don't have to. I know fine and well that having a low AC and a low CON score early on is a bad idea. As I said, you need to be level 5, which means there are two whole levels to get through without having that particular trick. It may well be great once it gets going, but first you have to get past the hump.

I would recommend a solid melee build with lots of hitpoints which is tolerant of screw-ups. It may be boring to you, but it gets the job done and gets you thinking about how to do the same thing but with less margin for error.

Cleric!

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