AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Last time I'd actually played a Drow was around 4-5 years ago, and at the time, Ultrinnan was flourishing and had a considerably large population, sometimes the numbers actually rivaled the surfacers.

Since then, I've taken -alot- of time away, I've had a couple of surface characters (My Drow was perma-killed via choice due to some really good RP) and never really played Drow again, but now that I looked into making one and I've been flicking around the forums and whatnot, there doesn't seem to be a reason to do so anymore as the population seems rather dead.

Now keep in mind that when I was around, IronAngel was playing Kir'nack, Nekhy was watching over us fine young Drow

Houses Arabett, Tinnerai and Do'Veldran were actively against eachother and we all avoided Fuma'Vhid because they had powerbuilds and could squish us. (I remember one fat Drow from FV in particular but I can't remember his name.)

Anyhow, it brings me to ask a few questions:
1. Was there some event that decimated people's interest in Drow RP?

2. What in the hell happened to Ultrinnan and is there any Drow city on Amia A at all?

The third question is more open but it's looking for opinions rather: When I had just finished playing my Drow, that's about the time that the "No sex" rule was beginning to get heavily enforced. Let's face it, Drow RP had -alot- of that, and to be honest I didn't see anything wrong with it as it was part of that society. (We even had a Pleasure House with chains and locks and.. Some weird giant bulb thing that rose out of the ground when you clicked on it. And who could forget the little secret shop inside the pleasure house that had it's transition point set as a tiny little square and had super awesome gear there?)

Anyway, as I said at the time I stopped is just around when that rule began getting enforced, so it never ended up impacting me, but did that rule end up doing damage to the Drow culture? (And I do seriously mean that, it's not a question based to make an attack at the rules. Before anyone says "Why not just fade to black?" it's because of how Drow society works, males don't really have any power, but in the bedroom we had all of it and at the right time, you could ask any question you wanted to [digging for information about their House etc] while if you fade to black, it skips that whole scenario.)

People eventually become bored with playing drow. I first played Amia as an only drow account. Roleplay in Ultrinnan was great, and Its sad the city is gone. The new drow(and old) population dwindles from time to time, then it skyrockets. Kind of echoes my friend Coei21's post about Drow population last year. He asked the same, and thats really the only answer I know to give.

2. There is no drow city on A anymore, and a long series of events made Ultrinnan crumble. Others can answer that better for you. All I know is in short; it flooded. Underport is there as an underdark city though.

Mad Drow Disease.

We keep them in feed lots and grind their customers up and feed them to each other?

Factions wax and wane in popularity all the time... I don't think there has to be a specific reason for it; it's just the way of things. In the year or so I've been playing on Amia, I've seen the trendy faction-of-the-moment cycle through Banites, Eilistraeens, Triadics, Grovers, and the Eternal Order... my main character is a Winya elf, and it seems to me like it's becoming their turn in recent days. UD drow will come back again, I've little doubt of it.

every server I have been on both nwn and nwn2 can't keep a stable underdark drow population at all... it isn't just amia

The problems can be listed, solutions can be suggested..... all of it is an exercise in futility. There's only one thing that can bring back the drow UD... and that's people getting down there and RP'ing.

Hopefully, this topic doesn't spiral out of control and require a lock within the next 20 posts.

Yossarin wrote:

Mad Drow Disease.

Quote:

There's only one thing that can bring back the drow UD... and that's people getting down there and RP'ing.

As it is usually with a lot of things that die off over time, repopulating the drow (UD in general really!) is kind of difficult. In a sustainable way anyways.

I mean, when new players do go down there, they tend to find no one around and leave (or get sick of fighting rats/bats/surprise trolls with no gear! I hope that doesn't happen anymore). Old players tend not to keep it busy with a steady stream of alts because the surface is generally more inviting. It takes the sort of thing like a large group of players deciding to make drow as a group, and somehow that catches attention from other people around there/who might be interested. But that's a staggering number of variables. I'm sure there are other possibilities though.

Anyway! OP's three questions. No, none of the events that I saw really decimated people's interests. "This is the way the world ends; Not with a bang but a whimper." Dunno about how people felt about the Ultrinnan thing and I wasn't really there. Of the events I did see, people did leave over them, but that only chipped at an already dying population due to whatever (hurt feelings, alien abductions, swamp gas).

It's already been said what happened to Ultrinnan.

And I doubt the "no sex" rule had much if anything to do with it, but I wouldn't know. For the scenario you pose, may I suggest something uh, post-coital? But yeah, no, that was probably a minor factor at best.

For the record, we are still around, a few UD players, and we're doing stuff and you should totally join us. I'm rather hoping we don't fall into the mould of "only around when we schedule a meeting" but it's not an issue that'll be disappearing overnight.

I used to be a mostly UD/Drow player a long time ago. The player base numbers rise and fall like anything else. The Amian UD player base, and specifically UD Drow, has always come back because people just seem to love Lolthite RP.

I think the reason the UD has been empty a little longer than usual is because players need to get comfortable with the new city and the new UD in B. It's an awesome place, make use of it, UD players! Ultrinnan was fun, sure, but change is also fun.

Enjoy it all while Amia and NWN 1 in general are still alive and kicking! It's a very old game, y'all, it's not going to be this populated for that much longer, I imagine. Play and enjoy till the wheels fall off!

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Enjoy it all while Amia and NWN 1 in general are still alive and kicking! It's a very old game, y'all, it's not going to be this populated for that much longer, I imagine. Play and enjoy till the wheels fall off!

Hopefully NWN3 will someday 1.) exist, and 2.) not suck.

Quote:

When I had just finished playing my Drow, that's about the time that the "No sex" rule was beginning to get heavily enforced. Let's face it, Drow RP had -alot- of that, and to be honest I didn't see anything wrong with it as it was part of that society.

I think it is a grave insult to the Drow playerbase that you insinuate that it was only good and fun because you could cyber.

Ahem.

Non-Lolthite RP is alive and very well. Lolthites are welcome to come play, if you can understand that the setup is going to not involve everyone bowing and scraping and react accordingly ICly

GET OUT! No Eilistraeens allowed.
I once tried to make a (real) drow character. Had no-one to interact with, and quit soon after.

Lizzie wrote:

Hopefully NWN3 will someday 1.) exist, and 2.) not suck.

http://www.playneverwinter.com - It's likely coming out mid 2012, possibly sooner.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

I think the reason the UD has been empty a little longer than usual is because players need to get comfortable with the new city and the new UD in B. It's an awesome place, make use of it, UD players! Ultrinnan was fun, sure, but change is also fun.

I'm probably going to make a few suggestions about Amia B's Drow areas in the improvements forum. Personally I found the starting area there to be brutal to low level players, and the lack of a "guide" to know where to go (I found Beholders on a level 2). The "rat ear" quest giver not saying where the rats are (and his location is right next to a transition that takes you somewhere you -don't- want to go).

Overall though I do like the new UD, it's cleaner, uses alot've the new tilesets and the "depth" system with the caves to show where you're located I found to be a great detail added.

TormakSaber wrote:

I think it is a grave insult to the Drow playerbase that you insinuate that it was only good and fun because you could cyber.

I have no idea how you even managed to get close to that line of thought? It was good and fun the whole time I was playing my Drow, but having -that- option made it interesting and kept open another avenue of RP. Hell I even "cybered" with a particular female character that I needed information from in which the player was male (and we had a good laugh about it too), and it was considerably graphic but nothing arousing or whatever.

This thread wasn't made to be insulting, I was and still am genuinely interested in any events that may have caused a Drow exodus.

wereguy2 wrote:

GET OUT! No Eilistraeens allowed.
I once tried to make a (real) drow character. Had no-one to interact with, and quit soon after.

She's not talking about Eilies, just regular UD heretics. But yeah, that sucks.

AxlLeigh wrote:

Ahem.

Non-Lolthite RP is alive and very well. Lolthites are welcome to come play, if you can understand that the setup is going to not involve everyone bowing and scraping and react accordingly ICly

by murdering them all! :twisted:

Lascivar wrote:

http://www.playneverwinter.com - It's likely coming out mid 2012, possibly sooner.

Made by Cryptic Studios who haven't made anything good, err, ever.

When I joined the server, there was a solid amount of drow player who represented a large power force.
The reason why it is gone:
- Prominent faction leaders left the server.
- The Lolthite characters were too weak willed and allowed the Elistrean hippies to convert them to the good side.
- People tend to make good drow characters because of the spell resistance.

Lutra wrote:

- The Lolthite characters were too weak willed and allowed the Elistrean hippies to convert them to the good side.

HIGH FIIIVE!

Also, NWN3 looks crap.

I don't wanna rain on any parades but I think we're a little past the part of "Oh Edonil is not the drow heaven/it's the devs fault/dm's fault/cause we can't cyber(ick)" excuses.

If I had to take a wild guess, based off the many posts about the drow(including the Tinnerai/UDV confrontation), I'd say the real honest to god problem is lack of lore/culture cohesion between drow references/novels and how drow culture is in game.

Some people read up on drow and expect one thing, others expect another, the DMs have their own intepretation from some players and not others....

Drow RP becomes a clusterfuck, where people bicker about the culture and how things are done. It's a real bitch when the whole idea stems from a culture based on chaos(Anything goes...or does it?).

This self contained culture clash is fought tooth and nail by players(Usually against each other IC and OOC).

Example(that I can use since it's already posted):

Tinnerai used Banites to help assault UDV. UDV hides in the temple. Tinnerai w/banites assaults the temple(Which was not all the drows temple it turned out UDV tried to make it exclusively theirs). Lolth gets pissed and Tinnerai become fallen.

Now this is why players argue:
Arguing about drow culture is like trying to argue your religion is better than someone else's. It's like talking to a wall. It's all a matter of opinion. So instead you get this:

Tinnerai players: Why are we fallen? UDV tried to hide in the temple like cowards anyways and we've done whatever was neccessary to win.
UDV Players: The Tinnerais let Banites desecrate the temple. They should be fallen.

Tinnerai pl: Lolth wouldn't care.
UDV pl: Yes she would.
Tinnerai pl: No she wouldn't. She embodies chaos.
UDV pl: Yes she would. She embodies chaos.

DMs: Yes she would. Tinnerai is fallen.

Tinnerais: F U DMs.
UDV: You didn't knock down their house for what they did? F U DMs.

DMs: F U ungrateful freakin drow players.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

What we need is four things:

1. A really good set of guidelines that describe what is expected and not expected when concerning drow culture(since drow RP in Amia is nothing like I've read in any books, with rules that make no sense and don't exist in any drow culture I've ever read up on).

2. A really dedicated Lolth DM. At one time this was Nekh, and the drow flourished. When Nekh got bumped up(to head DM) she had more resposibilities and therefore can't do it anymore. This DM should be dedicated to one thing and one thing alone Preservation of the city and Lolthite drow as a whole, not the fun of a player. This Lolth should send yochlols to set the priorities straight. Meaning discouraging war between two houses when the city as a whole is weak as it is. Meaning a killed Lolthite (by another Lolthite) of any kind without a really good cause should be punished, even, in fact especially, if the killer is in fact the First Matron. This Dm should also have an idea that the player playing first Matron is a goodplayer who respects the DMs decisions, not countermands them and does their own thing anyways.

3. A priority system to aid the Lolth/DM to make the correct decisions that not only save the city/houses but also keep a player base strong. The Tinnerai/UDV debaucle should never have occured in the first place, what with so few houses as it is. The priorities should be something to te effect of City/House/Matron/Female/Male. Onc the population grows the DM/Lolth can allow chaos to reign.

4. A DM who knows when Chaos/Order should be the deciding factor. This also applies to Matrons. If you kill a worthwile loyal house guard because chaos is the order of the day(and a DM approves this as Lolth): not a good idea. If you spare someone you really hate becaue it is expected that you should kill them but do not for fear of an empty city, and in that essence chaos is the order of the day: A good idea with more depth and thought.

So all in all you wanna know why drow rp is weak right now? Cause the Matron players don't give a s**t about the population of their private city, and in their need to have the RP aways go their way, they drove the DMs to not give a s**t about the city/any individual drow/drow RP. The Bad drow players weakened the city and the DMs turned a blind eye until the same bad player(s) became their problem.

It's everyone's fault. Some might argue the evacuation of the older drow players is a blessing to those who want to make new drow/drow houses, without the same BS that causes drow cities to become empty continually rearing it's ugly head.

Sorry if this post sounds offensive to the eyes of those who think their RP is the grandest outstanding spectacle of all time....I won't make any lame excuses to pretend it is anything other than the above. It is not the SR, not the weak willed lolthites who decided to convert(that's actually a result not the problem), it was definitely not the layout/set up of Edonil(which I think was doe well and was actually asked to be set that way by the players not the devs), it was the players/DM lack of interest.....due to players.

Last edited by wereguy2 on Thu, Jun 09 2011, 9:55 AM, edited 1 time in total.

boobookittyscrew wrote:

What we need is two things:

That's four things. That said, I agree with this post.
Also, this thread is soooo closed.

BTW I typed such a long and what might seem even emotional statement because I(and a few others I won't name) helped to found a House called My'ana.

OOC/ICwise it's intention was simple: Build the population of drow/drow players.

On a player level our goal was simple: Don't kill drow unless they're the weenie who is constantly attacking the store clerks or other mindless stupidity....oh and if they're elistraean(no offense you guys are traitors)

This house would except....unusual types of drow that still provided a use. This included:

Drow Shifters, blue/green/any color of the darned spectrum hair/eyes, fat drow who can still kick ass, little drow who can still kick ass, ANY drow who can still kick ass or otherwise provide a use, even had an albino drow that looked like an elf and was a spy.

The other drow houses(the same three that somehow managed to run the city even having failed and causing their old city's demise...the same litany of Drow/drow players who expect ALL drow players to play some, cloned, cookie cutter, typical, unoriginal, and thoroughly flavorless drow), pretty much ran out the Matron(who ignorantly thought she could prevail without a powerbuild). The house collapsed. Then Qos collapsed, then tinnerai, then UDV players left. Now empty city.

The Matron pretty much left literally crying because despite all her best efforts(Which I told her they might and probably would fail), in the end the RP(which isn't spectacluar at it's worst), overrid the actual idea of keeping players/drow population.

Once House My'ana fell I knew the city was doomed....cause as long as the Matrons/drow players don't give a s**t about the population, and kill other drow for the slightest differences(eye/hair color/ fat/short), the players that actually do care about the population and actively make it fun for others, will lose.....and then, everyone loses.

I think this thread is on the bad track again.

The reason we are inactive is simple: the majority of drow players were not young players and simply had RL stuff. As the drow society was always regenerated by the same players, with a few new players joining in over time, their absent ended the general activity.

New players are doing good things in de UD of B now. Instead of typing out what has happened since Ultrinnan like bookookittyscrew and gravely criticize a bunch of players without some thought tunnel-visionedly, just get in game and enjoy the roleplay of the new characters.

What's done is done and IC a choice or an act is neither good nor bad.

Excellent, thank you Booboo for the post, gives me a very good idea of what's happened and I know the playerbase reasonably well enough to understand what you've meant.

It does seem unfortunate and it'd likely take a large handful of convinced players to roll Drow characters at the same time and give the UD a kick-start and work towards reviving it. The RP I'd had in the UD was far more in-depth and structured (the society itself was structured, albeit chaotic) than anything I've seen elsewhere on the server aside from DM-controlled events. That very structute gave characters goals to aim for (Quel'Saruk and Ul'Saruk for males, and the mage roles, with the women having their priestess ones).

Sometimes there was even "too much RP" which sounds odd for an RP server, but you're out hunting and need to port back for supplies? God no.

You go back to that city and you're pulled into a cluster of people gathered around and chances are you're going to be yelled at by some female that's having a bad day. And even though I made that sound bad, I actually mean it as a good thing, there was -always- something to do.

I'll have to look into this, even if it means pulling old players from MSN that aren't in Amia anymore back onto the server.

If you've seen the new setting in the Underdark B: Edonil, you'd know that the developers and the DMs provided the drow society with every infrastructure needed to resettle the roleplay we did in Ultrinnan. There's a temple, a sorcere, a library and a melee magthere building. They are finished. Furthermore there are two grand house buildings (Currently the residents of Tinnerai and Ussen'd'Vhid) which may transfer over time as part of roleplay. (Like in Ultrinnan) There's also a bar/pleasure stuff-house built by Qos'yutsu.

There are merchants, baths and plenty of areas around it. In other words: Edonil lives. It's just not being occupied by many drow players as it is.

boobookittyscrew wrote:

the Matron(who ignorantly thought she could prevail without a powerbuild). The house collapsed.

I was reading the thread thinking 'maybe I'll make a Drow'..

I read that line and thought 'No'.

Roleplay > Rollplay, and if politics is decided by minmaxing, then it is doomed from day 1.

If that's your argument not to play a drow, then don't play a drow;

There's not a single drow character, I can recall, that achieved his status by winning a fight.

ainjyll wrote:

Hopefully, this topic doesn't spiral out of control and require a lock within the next 20 posts.

...Not looking too good right now. Dammit.

Ummma wrote:

boobookittyscrew wrote:

the Matron(who ignorantly thought she could prevail without a powerbuild). The house collapsed.

I was reading the thread thinking 'maybe I'll make a Drow'..

I read that line and thought 'No'.

Roleplay > Rollplay, and if politics is decided by minmaxing, then it is doomed from day 1.

Ignore it. Look, drow RP has a checkered history. A lot of people don't like to play with us because all of our characters are *obliged* to be mean, cruel and nasty. And player feelings do get hurt because, at times, it can get vicious, and even the best of us might entangle IC feelings with OOC. It happens. We're not bad players, we're just people.

But you know, drow/UDer RP is really rich. The players that get really into it are dedicated, there's a lot that goes on here and it's always interesting because it's just so different from the surface. When it's active, we really do have the constant power struggles that are supposed to be going on in the UD, and it's great. It might implode and go quiet at times, but the high points really are worth the struggles.

So you know. Come join the darkside, cookies etc etc.

There's been like dozens of threads with people going on about "What's wrong with drow?" And each of those, like this thread, has plenty of responses constructive or not. Ainjyll pretty much summed it up.

ainjyll wrote:

The problems can be listed, solutions can be suggested..... all of it is an exercise in futility. There's only one thing that can bring back the drow UD... and that's people getting down there and RP'ing.

I'm personally generally on 8am to 2pm GMT. Though that varies A LOT every now and then assuming how messed up my sleeping patterns happen to be that week (and if you want to make a meeting with me for whatever, I'm willing to go the extra mile in going on a time I'm not accustomed with; just throw me a PM). And yes, me and a few others are trying to get some activity stirred up if you've noticed the Obsidian Vanguard postings. Does that mean you have to join us? No, it means you can try and take advantage of the activity to set off your own thing as well. Whether it is making friends or enemies with us. Its about generating RP.

The Underdark is so much more than just Lolthlite drow. Don't be fooled by the massive emphasis placed on them and Edonil. There's still L'Obsul, Underport, the duergar, the kobolds, the svirfneblin and more stuff.

The Lolthlites shouldn't have their own little bubble where they keep to themselves, its a whole big underdark out there and outside influences should be things to consider for the Lolthlite Houses. I'll even say having a bigger UD RP environment than Lolthlites/Edonil would be essential for Lolthlite RP to endure during slow times since it will present a venue of RP for those Lolthlite drowsies when their houses aren't doing squat.

And if you are a first timer don't fret too much about lore and such, stick around L'Obsul to pick things up as you go. The only thing to remember is that underdark society is dangerous, so play it smart and don't do something silly like insulting everyone you meet.

Point is: Just do something! Whether it is just logging in as a UDer, even if no one is around, you can still arrange stuff on the forums like joining the Vanguard and we'll work things out from there. </shameless advertising>

EDIT: Oh and I guess the OOC shit that goes down should get a mention. Just keep the OOC out of the IC and vice versa. Just because the characters are bastards, doesn't mean the player is. Don't take things personally.

Genar_Detkasa wrote:

EDIT: Oh and I guess the OOC shit that goes down should get a mention. Just keep the OOC out of the IC and vice versa. Just because the characters are bastards, doesn't mean the player is. Don't take things personally.

And if they /are/ a bastard, we have a competent if surly DM team for a reason. SCREENY SCREENY SCREENY. Submit.
They won't be a bastard for long. The DM team isn't stupid, and they tend to know who the OOC shit-starters are. If you're one and you're new, they'll figure it out pretty quick. The problem is, there is and has always BEEN so much OOC rage in the UD, that the good RP is blown out of the sky.

Look at the UD forums, flame topics every couple weeks. Never had an UD character but looking at the subforum I'll stay away, and I am sure I am not the only one with that impression.

hendrack wrote:

Look at the UD forums, flame topics every couple weeks. Never had an UD character but looking at the subforum I'll stay away, and I am sure I am not the only one with that impression.

That's just their way of snuggling. The Drow players really do love eachother.

hendrack wrote:

Look at the UD forums, flame topics every couple weeks. Never had an UD character but looking at the subforum I'll stay away, and I am sure I am not the only one with that impression.

I must massively dispute your figures.

To have flame topics every couple weeks we need to have *topics* every couple of weeks. Which we do not. Not since forever.

Preach it Ainjyll! I love what he says in drow-related threads.

Oddly and ironically enough, the one problem in all Lolthite cities built is the last thing either DMs and/or Matron Players think about when commiting an act:

Population.

No one ever seems to consider that a factor, yet it transcends and encompasses a problem both IC and OOC.

If Lolth herself considered every dead/lost drow Lolthite as a loss of power for herself and her city, chances are she'd take action to stop it.

Likewise players(I am pointing directly at the Matrons as you in fact play the leaders) more concerned with population decrease would be more apt to consider the implications of their actions.

As it stands the population of drow players OOC and/or drow characters IC is not considered, until that population hits near zero. Then another thread like this is made.

If you really wanna decent population....uh.....stop killing yourselves?

ps. almost any other excuses above such as RL issues(yeah cause hundreds of drow stopped playing for that...uh huh), bad dev work....yeah take those with a grain of salt. Those are lame excuses that deflect from the truth, sugarcoat s**t and call it cotton candy.

If you came upon a world that was a blasted wasteland that was almost completely unpopulated, who are you gonna believe? The slightly singed person that tells you the people blasted themselves to death like idiots? Or the singed person who tells you there's nothing wrong and the world is fine and asks "what are you talking about?"

Yep... another thread about the drow that went veered left when it should have hooked right.

A shame, too.

P.S.~ I'm more than willing to oversee almost anything that happens in the UD with proper notice or just a shout when anyone sees me on.

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