AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Is it a dexbased woodelf or a STR based?

Doesn't matter the builds are almost identical because Wood Elf nets +2 Str +2 Dex

It matters.
Depends if s/he wants to go a devver route, Dexxer route, Epic dodger route, Str'er route, Divine shield/might route or any of these combined in two.

And if she wish to rebuild her PC i think it's somewhat strange if s/he went from say, A devver woodelf to an epic dodger elf. You just don't forsake all those muscles ... OR gain them

Very_Svensk wrote:

It matters.
Depends if s/he wants to go a devver route, Dexxer route, Epic dodger route, Str'er route, Divine shield/might route or any of these combined in two.

And if she wish to rebuild her PC i think it's somewhat strange if s/he went from say, A devver woodelf to an epic dodger elf. You just don't forsake all those muscles ... OR gain them

Which is something the DM team would immediately stop and anyone with half a brain wouldn't try to do anyways.

In the end, it doesn't matter. I have to agree with Mosh, the builds will be virtually identical. You just need to plug in what you wish to take from that list (for example) and add/subtract feats to use free slots/make room as needed.

Wouldn't 11 monk/3 rogue/16 bg be better? You don't lose anything from the rogue, but gain poison immunity.

Naivatkal wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

It matters.
Depends if s/he wants to go a devver route, Dexxer route, Epic dodger route, Str'er route, Divine shield/might route or any of these combined in two.

And if she wish to rebuild her PC i think it's somewhat strange if s/he went from say, A devver woodelf to an epic dodger elf. You just don't forsake all those muscles ... OR gain them

Which is something the DM team would immediately stop and anyone with half a brain wouldn't try to do anyways.

In the end, it doesn't matter. I have to agree with Mosh, the builds will be virtually identical. You just need to plug in what you wish to take from that list (for example) and add/subtract feats to use free slots/make room as needed.

But if you know you are driving off a cliff, why don't you turn the steering wheel or break? That's pretty much the logic i apply when helping people with selfers or freebies. Why make it harder than it is, why set up an impossible goal?
Saves a lot of hassle, time and frustration.

There is only one way to build an epic dodging Wood Elf with monk levels and 16 BG.

9 Monk 5 SD 16BG

14STR
18DEX -> 25 + 1 Great Dex = 26
6CON
10INT
14WIS
14CHA

Strength based builds

Any combination of 6 or more Monk combined with any other class 8 or less levels and 16 BG. The stats are the same either way and the feats taken exactly the same.

As I said it doesn't matter really because with the monk component Strength and Dex are basically interchangeable if you want to run around in no Armor.

Also Svensk heres some logic for you. A total of three DM's post here and take note of when people say rebuild. Hassle saved because we already are made aware and have already begun formulating approvals and offering our own advice.

Notably the three DM's are the ones that nitpick the most on rebuilds.

Well two ways 1 Monk 13 Rogue 16 BG but that has monk level, not levels so I didn't really lie.

Re: Ulir

Actually all things considered your probably better of going 13 Monk 16 BG 1 Assassin purely because you've already grabbed everything that you'd want with four levels of rogue and that 1 in 100 000 chance that Death Attack will fire could be handy.

Yeah, of course chris

- But there's also quite a number that don't post on the builder's topic mainly for that reason, They want to throw some ideas around and are somewhat worried they'd be misunderstood or have their ideas stolen and/or get it harder when they finally present their request to change their concept

Those people generally PM me. And if they are asking you for advice it'd be responsible for you to get them to nudge a DM since you are firing at less than 50 percent in overall approvals if I recall correctly.

50% Is quite accurate, considering I have only made rebuild requests for two characters!

Lol, well alright. After returning from the gym, I see that most of these proposed builds have monk. I'm sort of wanting to stray away from monk and go more weapon based? Unless the proposed builds have slightly better AB then mine right now?

Also, yes, he is STR based.

Last edited by Naivatkal on Wed, Jun 08 2011, 20:58 PM, edited 1 time in total.

So I thought about making a level 25 ranger.

This is me failing at doing so:

Ranger(25), Fighter(4), Harper Scout(1), Chultan

STR: 16 (23)
DEX: 12
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 14
CHA: 10

01: Ranger(1): Weapon Focus: Handaxe, Favored Enemy I, {Dual Wield}
02: Ranger(2)
03: Ranger(3)
04: Ranger(4): STR+1, (STR=17)
05: Ranger(5): Favored Enemy II
06: Ranger(6)
07: Ranger(7)
08: Ranger(8): STR+1, (STR=18)
09: Ranger(9): Improved Critical: Handaxe, {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting}
10: Ranger(10): Favored Enemy III
11: Ranger(11)
12: Ranger(12): STR+1, Blind Fight, (STR=19)
13: Ranger(13)
14: Ranger(14)
15: Ranger(15): Iron Will, Favored Enemy IV
16: Ranger(16): STR+1, (STR=20)
17: Ranger(17)
18: Ranger(18): Alertness
19: Ranger(19)
20: Ranger(20): STR+1, Favored Enemy V, (STR=21)
21: Ranger(21): Epic Weapon Focus: Handaxe
22: Ranger(22)
23: Ranger(23): Bane of Enemies
24: Fighter(1): STR+1, Armor Skin, (STR=22)
25: Fighter(2)
26: Fighter(3)
27: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Handaxe, Epic Weapon Specialization: Handaxe
28: Harper Scout(1): STR+1, Favored Enemy VI, (STR=23)
29: Ranger(24)
30: Ranger(25): Epic Skill Focus: Spot, Epic Prowess

Discipline 33(39), Hide 33(34), Lore 33(36), Move Silently 33(34), Persuade 12(12), Search 4(6), Spot 33(47), Tumble 30(31)

Currently there are 3 pre-epic and 3 post-epic feat slots free.

Any questions?

fake edit: Not going for dev crit because it stretches the build to far and I will not accept a min/max on a stat to do so.
Also, how does Animal Empathy work here? Dunno if I should try to include it.
Not going to be epic hide/ms, but probably shoot for epic spotter (what about SF: Spot?).

If I were to go about it, I'd do a Monk10/BG16/Fighter4, even if Chris advised me otherwise. He's probably right with his "UMD is GOD" nonsense, but screw that. Fighter4 means +1 BAB, more feats and, most of all, EWS. I'd also use a two-handed weapon because it fucking rocks bro, but then again, I'm a dunce: dual kama is the superior especially if you're a wood elf, which only makes it sadder not to take it.

Monk8/BG10/Fighter2 pre-epic, and for feats take PA, Divine Shield, Divine Might, WF, TWF, Ambidex, ITWF, Blindfight, and Imp Crit. Epic: Armour skin, EWF, EWS, Epic Servant, Great STR I, Epic Prowess, whatever.

STR 16 -> 24
DEX 16
CON 10
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 14

Tumble and Disc.

Anyway, you can always take Rogue and be a n00b, and make love to your Owl's Insight scrolls.

Naivatkl: You must have lots of characters, but my comment on that build is the following: INT 16, CHA 10? Go away.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Naivatkl: You must have lots of characters, but my comment on that build is the following: INT 16, CHA 10? Go away.

My fault for not correcting that. The actual stats are:
STR: 16 (23)
DEX: 12
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 14
CHA: 10

Fixed on the initial post as well. I looked at the INT and went 'wtf?!' and so I lowered it. But CHA on the ranger, should it be over 10? I don't play rangers sooo yeah haha

And I only really have three chars I play, I just like making builds and learning how to actually make certain builds work right. A learning process, etc ^_^

Quote:

fake edit: Not going for dev crit because it stretches the build to far and I will not accept a min/max on a stat to do so.
Also, how does Animal Empathy work here? Dunno if I should try to include it.
Not going to be epic hide/ms, but probably shoot for epic spotter (what about SF: Spot?).

animal empathy works great on B especially in epic levels when you catch yourself a massive yeti or better yet a manticore it isnt so good on A though but it has a little usefulness if you can catch yourself a wolf early on.. or better yet a fendhound... my 25/4/1 ranger will take epic spot so I think its worth it... also why not take just one fighter level earlier *i took mine at level 3*... you can gain access to fullplate and the extra ac will be nice

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:

Quote:

fake edit: Not going for dev crit because it stretches the build to far and I will not accept a min/max on a stat to do so.
Also, how does Animal Empathy work here? Dunno if I should try to include it.
Not going to be epic hide/ms, but probably shoot for epic spotter (what about SF: Spot?).

animal empathy works great on B especially in epic levels when you catch yourself a massive yeti or better yet a manticore it isnt so good on A though but it has a little usefulness if you can catch yourself a wolf early on.. or better yet a fendhound... my 25/4/1 ranger will take epic spot so I think its worth it... also why not take just one fighter level earlier *i took mine at level 3*... you can gain access to fullplate and the extra ac will be nice

Good point on the fullplate, it was mostly just me keeping the fighter levels together for more epic feats. It can easily be moved and such.

You know the drill, and to my eyes, you're a full-fledged buildmonkey whose help on this thread is noticed already. You just need to be less RP-y about your builds to be a proper (shit of a) person, like Mosh or Suney or whoever.

Wow, well, uh, thanks!

It's good to know that, from the outside, it seems like I really am learning a thing or two, heh.

Which would outdamage the other? Wood Elf Barbarian/ftr/rog or the Wood Elf ftr/wm/rog?

Fighter/WM/Rogue would do more damage. The Barb build will have far more survivability though and can quite easily pop a rage if it needs to nuke something down or to farm quickly.

Ah, that's what I was wondering about. I knew WM would have more damage but Barbarian seems like it could maul something like a bear..

ainjyll wrote:

Why don't you try and post what you come up with here?

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll never go hungry.

What I came up with first, was 20 wizard/10SD, but it sorta gets beat down becouse of the great spending of skill points, via crossclass. But then again... does wizard need other than spellcraft? How about the epic shadowlord? I've heard it kinda sucks.

I feel like I've been insulted somehow on this last page...

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I feel like I've been insulted somehow on this last page...

by my post?

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I feel like I've been insulted somehow on this last page...

Bitch.

And Tero, you can go either the silly "You Can't Hit Me, But the Feeling Is Mutual" Wizzy20/SD10, or then the smart one which can land a heavier hit and doesn't fall on its arse all the time, namely, Wizzy23/SD6/Ranger or Bard1.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I feel like I've been insulted somehow on this last page...

Bitch.

And Tero, you can go either the silly "You Can't Hit Me, But the Feeling Is Mutual" Wizzy20/SD10, or then the smart one which can land a heavier hit and doesn't fall on its arse all the time, namely, Wizzy23/SD6/Ranger or Bard1.

reasoning? and should I take sd6 and bard/ranger 1 in epics?

Ha-RUM! I'm thinking of going for a build with at least 16 weapon master levels and 12 fighter levels, maybe some rogue or monk levels.

Question is, it will be strength based. Do strength based weapon masters need dev crit to not get laughed out of the room when it comes to a dust ups?

Nah, you will be fine. You have the advantage of crit multiplier bonus and ki critical (those at 5 and 7), plus epic weapon spec. Damage output will be almost the same. Dev doesn't add damage as much as putting monsters in wheelchairs. Overwhelming only adds a small bonus to crits.

If you can though, I'd suggest taking it for the fun of seeing stuff getting knocked over. Damagewise not anything noticable.

Right, thanks!

It boils down to the fact you might as well take it because the Dev Crit requirement feats compliment a WM nicely, unless you're really short on them.

It's the only STR based trick in the game so there's no reason not to take it on an STR based character. IT's all you've got.

Well you take it almost every single case unless its a choice between epic prowess and dev crit.

brb letoing epic prowess off every character you own

On the Barb build.. is it best to go two hander or sword/board? I'm thinking battleaxe/shield would be a good choice for a barbarian but perhaps he'd sacrifice the shield for a bigger weapon. I'm wanting a majroity of barb levels for all the fun rages.

Both are fine.

Yeah both will do. Barb is one of the few classes that can afford to use the absurdly large weapon since the average rage build comes with like +200 hp or so over their WM brothers.

Can you take epic levels of a prestige class before level 20? Like 11 SD levels or something.
I figure no, but just checking to be sure

No, you cannot.

Soooo. Plannin on making another rdd type of character and wondering if I should go for something similar to my old one.
Fighter 8/Bard 4/RDD 18, or get Fighter 18/Bard 3/RDD 9?
The latter will bring +2 AB, +2 fort (from feats alone, not natural save progression) but -1 AC, -50% electricity immunity, -paralysis immunity, -immunity to sleep, -9d10 breath weapon (from 18d10).

I do prefer the build that is strong on RDD levels, but having 48 instead of 46 ab (no buffs) is also nice, but not necessarily needed.

What would you pick and why? Perhaps you have other builds to suggest? (blue dragon disciple, so it has to be within one step of LE)

Ulir wrote:

Soooo. Plannin on making another rdd type of character and wondering if I should go for something similar to my old one.
Fighter 8/Bard 4/RDD 18, or get Fighter 18/Bard 3/RDD 9?
The latter will bring +2 AB, +2 fort (from feats alone, not natural save progression) but -1 AC, -50% electricity immunity, -paralysis immunity, -immunity to sleep, -9d10 breath weapon (from 18d10).

I do prefer the build that is strong on RDD levels, but having 48 instead of 46 ab (no buffs) is also nice, but not necessarily needed.

What would you pick and why? Perhaps you have other builds to suggest? (blue dragon disciple, so it has to be within one step of LE)

Fighter 18 bard 2 RDD 10 is the generic preferred build. You could also do 20 bard 10 RDD, which has the potential to be more powerful and awesome than the fighter one.

TeroSNS wrote:

reasoning? and should I take sd6 and bard/ranger 1 in epics?

I'd go Wizard16/SD4 pre-epic myself. Bard/Ranger is taken at 29 or 30 most preferably to get the most of it, that is, skills points.

The 23/6/1 doesn't go all in DEX, but rather grabs an average one and focuses on beefing its brain. Plainly, my reasoning as to why 23/6/1 in my humbledore is better than 20/10, is because it has more spellpower. Naturally we shouldn't forget all the nifty skill points and extra feats. But in the end, you should do it the way you like. I'm not saying that either of them would be bad.

What is the least amount of barbarian levels one should take and still enjoy the combined rages? I get the impression that 24 is a fine number if you need to multiclass.

Ulir wrote:

What is the least amount of barbarian levels one should take and still enjoy the combined rages? I get the impression that 24 is a fine number if you need to multiclass.

My Tiefling Barb sat at around 500 HP with decent gear on, 20 Barb, 8 Fighter, 1 Rogue.

Took the fighter levels in epics since the BAB is the same anyway and it just gave me more feats and Dev Crit, and he's actually the character I was using when I'd put in the suggestions for those additional rage types, with Tormak (Thanks Tormak!

) following it up and making them balanced (as I only had a rough idea of what I wanted).

Just as a sidenote: Try and keep your alignment set to Neutral as opposed to Evil or Good if you're going to take Terrifying Rage (If the alignment actually fits your character that is) since people will then need to use Mindblanks or have immunity to mind spells instead of just the basic "Protection against evil/good" spells. And you can kick that Will DC check up to around 65+ with liberal use of Intimidate gear.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

TeroSNS wrote:

reasoning? and should I take sd6 and bard/ranger 1 in epics?

I'd go Wizard16/SD4 pre-epic myself. Bard/Ranger is taken at 29 or 30 most preferably to get the most of it, that is, skills points.

The 23/6/1 doesn't go all in DEX, but rather grabs an average one and focuses on beefing its brain. Plainly, my reasoning as to why 23/6/1 in my humbledore is better than 20/10, is because it has more spellpower. Naturally we shouldn't forget all the nifty skill points and extra feats. But in the end, you should do it the way you like. I'm not saying that either of them would be bad.

one last question... why ranger? I can understand the bard, but why ranger?

Thanks for the responses.

The ranger thing is because you get a free feat, dual-wielding and SPOT! You get very neat spot with bard song.

Epic Spell Focus

Ulir wrote:

Thanks for the responses.

The ranger thing is because you get a free feat, dual-wielding and SPOT! You get very neat spot with bard song.

why would a spellflinger use dual wield?

Well, you will get it no matter what. Just saying.

Btw, do you need to take Thundering and Terrifying Rage on barb levels?

11 Druid/19 Shifter

With epic spell pen it will be 26 spell pen, correct?
What about caster level? How does that work for the shifter levels?
And what about access to spell tiers? Does the Shifter class give access like PM levels, or would the above spread be limited to level 6 spells?

Trying my hand at a shifter build and dunno where to start. Making something up that I will post later, but I wanted to ask these questions.

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