AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Knights of the Coconut [Part 2]

After Sherlock Tormak found out I actually want a horse, having cleverly noticed that in the past four months I said that is the case in party chat, I decided to post a topic about horses where the actual problems are given suggested solutions.

1st:

Quote:

"It's client side loading of 13+mb of horse animations. Since the NWN client by default only caches like 16mb in resources, so whenever a horse appears, it causes a momentary stutter as the client has to clear out the resource cache, then load the animation data off the HD (there is also a smaller size alternative to the default script). The standard humanoid animations cause no hiccup because you're almost always guaranteed to have it in memory being a PC so it's always loaded.

You can up the amount by changing the nwnplayer.ini setting under [Game Options] and adding "Max Memory Usage=32". Up to a max of 64mb, beyond that there is no real performance benefit anymore. So there might be a small initial pause on the first horse load, but afterwards it will not be so laggy even if you transition areas."

Quote:

A.) Go to your Neverwinter/NWN directory, find a file called nwnplayer.ini
B.) Open the ini file with notepad or wordpad
C.) Navigate to the section in the file that is [Game Options] (it should be at the top)
D.) Add the following line to the file: Max Memory Usage=64.
E.) Save and close. Restart NWN. Voila!

This means your Neverwinter Nights has 48 additional mb cache. You run on 16, and without such lag. The horse script requires around 13-14mb. This means you still have 34-35 additional free MB with your regular animations + horse animations! That is more than twice the cache that you have by default, that is free for anything additional while playing.

2nd:

Quote:

If you aren't using tails on your PCs, you can add an invisible horse tail to them when they log into the module. This means the horse anims will always be loaded. Of course, you would definitely want to stress to the players that they should make that .ini modification.

3rd:

Quote:

Another option is to place invisible horses near transitions in some areas in your mod. That way, the anims get frequently refreshed into the cache. It would also help keep the gameplay smoother where it is most important to do so, by maybe adding at worst a second of time or slight pause after entering an area (when you already have a pause) rather than having it happen while walking around.

4th:

Quote:

To counter the loading of the animation sets, which can potentially totally freeze the screen for about a second, you have a way to get around it. This can be avoided to a large extent by being careful with the mounting scripts (making sure to not destroy the horse model until after you've mounted the PC)

In addition you can just script that upon use of summoning the mount, you are just immediately mounted skipping the step you see the horse unmounted.

5th:

Quote:

Include 4-5 lower poly horses for use. Could also add 1 riding dog, 1 riding lizard, 1 riding boar and 3 horses. Also possible to layer the base model poly to a low poly, and then have everybody install a player-side override to make the horse texture nicer if they wish. Depending on the system, would depend on how nice their horse looks, and it wouldn't lag the system, as the poly's aren't dedicated to the Server.

6th:

Quote:

Make horses a DC Request requirement with a cost of 50Dream Coins. This will ensure the players who purchase them can be trusted not to take them into the underdark, in addition that not all of amia has them to the point a mass of 20 horses can cause lag due to the detailed nature of their skin (if you did not already use the lower poly horses).

If ever there would be a real misuse of the horse, you can just take it away.

7th:

Quote:

Give no benefits except the speed to mounted characters to ensure no balance issues arise. Or at least start that way.

So in summation:
1. - Allows your computer to use more cache for Neverwinter Nights, so you can keep animations loaded for longer. [Should do, regardless of the fate of this topic.]
2. - Keeps your expanded cache loaded with the script, so you do not have the lag when encountering a horse mid area.
3. - Keeps your expanded cache loaded with the script, possibly adding a very short refresh when you enter a few certain areas. (Where you have a short pause regardless).
4. - Improve horse mounting loading animation.
5. - Remove problem of high poly count.
6. - Remove problem of horse craziness.
7. - Remove problem of balance issues.

Just to note... Add horses! They were used by npc-s on latest Caraigh event extensively by npcs and caused no real problem with lag. Likewise, it adds some interesting rp options for actual knights.

Could possibly even add lance option then as exotic weapon useable only from horse?

Reskin a bottled companion and call it "Sir Roberts battle pony"?

Please stay on topic and avoid discussing things that are not yet ready to be discussed (like lances). I do not want to have this topic locked because "was discussed before, amia says no" like with the haks for a very good while. Nor do I want this topic locked because it is derailed. Jokes about Robert and hawsies can be done in the off topic topic about this.

Bjorn wrote:

They were used by npc-s on latest Caraigh event extensively by npcs and caused no real problem with lag.

Did anyone encounter lag because of that? Would either be the poly count or the animation (both which can be countered) as the npcs did not actually need to mount, but were placed in a mounted manner. On my side I noticed no difference.

For poly count someone with a not so good computer would be great to comment on this.
For the people with great computers, lag would have resulted from script. (Like me). But I already had the cache expanded, so I did not have a problem.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Sc ... il&id=3412
http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic ... 3&forum=47

There you have resources on your hawsies scripting but I'am pretty certain even without the technical stuff players would not get horses to play with as a matter of principle. So yeah, my bottled companion idea was only half a joke.

Actually, I have rather bad computer and horses didnt matter much. I had more troubles with rain or mist.

hendrack wrote:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Scripts.Detail&id=3412
http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic ... 3&forum=47

There you have resources on your hawsies scripting but I'am pretty certain even without the technical stuff players would not get horses to play with as a matter of principle. So yeah, my bottled companion idea was only half a joke.

Thanks Hendrack. I have already read that topic and the tutorial. Most of that topic discusses issues that are not relevant in my suggestion of how to handle Horses on Amia, but it is definetly good to have it linked.

To outline how I think Horses on amia can work effectively, here is my suggestion for that.

Quote:

1.) Add the lag reducing tricks that I mentioned in my first post. Even if Caraigh showed that horses themself do not cause much of an issue, it is without a doubt after the Cordor test (which made people load the horse animation and the high poly count) did raise some trouble. That would be taken care of.

2.) Use Horses as special requests with a cost of 50DC. Perhaps even 100DC if you really want to keep the number down. If you get the thumbs up, you are given a...

3.) Widget. Upon use you are automounted. Second use you are unmounted with the horse instantly being removed.

4.) Disable the horse feats like mounted combat, mounted achery and give a large skill penalty on ride to ensure the skill is useless and does not give mechanical benefits.

Making them DC requests ensures much drops away. You will not have players exploiting or senselessly using them for one. Theft of a horse is not possible with the widget, which was a big problem on Persistent Worlds. DC Requesting, auto-mount and not using the mechanical advantage removes problems such as discussed in the link you posted.

In the links, things like making transitions to not allow horse crossing, horses not following via certain transitions as henchmen, making henchman mount, assigning mount ownership, dominations, odd horse respawns, horse markets, mounting lag, horse stables, etc. That all falls away.

Also, making them costly DC Items ensures that even -if- there would be still small lag problems, it would not impact amia on a bad scale. Definetly less that 12 buffed epics or spells like Gaga's mist, even perhaps the rain. It keeps them rare, and would not impact the server more (with the changes likely even less) than now, where they are used in DM events.

The automount widget worked well on another server where I used to play. Imo it would be cool if horses could be requested even if it would have some restriction p.e.: only usable by DM supervision or something like that.

People who know me might know that I have the worst laptop on the entire server thus I constantly crash during mass pvps and pvms but the Caraigh event and the horses did not cause much more lag than the usual, which is mostly caused by the amount of summons and buffs. Thus I think that the haked horses would not cause any lag at all.

Just putting in my support for this. As long as there is no lag issues, then horses would be a neat addition. Maybe add some restrictions to prevent their use in high-traffic areas, just to ensure it isn't a "the straw that broke the horse's back" scenario?

Eg, horses in the entry, a big no no.

Other than that, though, I'd be quite interested to see some equines about the place.

It could be controlled with the widget if it has the summoning and the mount/dismount function.

Also it can be controlled ICly with the IG law signs.

1: Sorry mate but we don't force people to edit their Nwn.ini files. All our custom content comes in open/drag/play and thats it.

2: We do use tails

3: Increase in module size with invisible NPC's per the Ranger Hide topic from awhile back would be a no-no

4: No Argument

5: No Argument

6: No fucking way am I charging people 50DC's to use a horse, I'm not interested in creating a tiered player system. If they are used irresponsibly you lose them and get a full delevel to 1 and the character in question stripped.

7: You vastly underate how effective a move speed bonus in combat is. The horse in effect would be scripted to walk at a normal speed.

Nr1 should be added to Varia: MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION AND HELP since it can increase the preformance for players' comps

Last edited by Pony on Sun, Jun 05 2011, 14:09 PM, edited 1 time in total.

MoshingChris wrote:

1: Sorry mate but we don't force people to edit their Nwn.ini files. All our custom content comes in open/drag/play and thats it.

There is no possibility to force this, even if wanted. You just need to add it under Varia: MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION AND HELP, just like windowed mode, tips on how to prevent your game to crash and freeze (where in that topic tips are already given to change .ini files) etc. As Svensk's said. Should be added there regardless, as it helps a lot even without horses.

MoshingChris wrote:

2: We do use tails

Aye, and a script that would add and remove and check for a tail in the entry would likely be not a very smart thing to do.

However, 3 still stands.

MoshingChris wrote:

3: Increase in module size with invisible NPC's per the Ranger Hide topic from awhile back would be a no-no

Would not need it in every wilderness area like with the ranger feat. Having it for instance in the entry may be bad, but for instance you can have one in the spawning places of the isle. Bendir Dale, Kampos, Kohlingen, Cordor South, Winya Ravena, Tarkuul, Uhm and Wharftown. That pretty much will suffice for amia A, and the kb size of that is laughably small. Likely smaller in size than 1 custom script for certain DC items or spells.

MoshingChris wrote:

6: No [removed] way am I charging people 50DC's to use a horse, I'm not interested in creating a tiered player system. If they are used irresponsibly you lose them and get a full delevel to 1 and the character in question stripped.

We charge for wings, we charge for bottled compansions, we charge for placeables, we charge for summon-reskins, we charge DCs for the items that are more powerful than what you can get in the epic loot bin and custom spells etc, so no arguement can be truly made that making Horses have a DC cost is contrary to the server. The exact cost is not too relevant however and I am sure if it comes that far, benefits and such will be weighed against each other. If you deduct levels or not to enforce sensibility is not really my concern either.

Edit:

MoshingChris wrote:

7: You vastly underate how effective a move speed bonus in combat is. The horse in effect would be scripted to walk at a normal speed.

Do not mind if that too is tweaked. I am sure you could rename that silly grandfather pocked watch into spurs and haste (gallop) via that.

Also, just to be safe I just want to try to preclude from this topic to become fussy derailed about one detail like many topics are. For instance, not to say Mosh did, but we would not need a 3 page discussion on how high the DC cost should be and everything that revolves around that. So to everyone posting, please keep your eyes on the ball to ensure that will not happen.

We don't need a three page discourse. The DC cost would be 15 as per Skinchanger Widget or 25 as per a Tail Addition with the requisite mounting feats. I literally would force any character that wants to get a horse to take the mounted combat feat.

The only way I'd do this is with low poly rideable animals. And even then I'm not sure it fits in with the context of the setting.

MoshingChris wrote:

I literally would force any character that wants to get a horse to take the mounted combat feat.

But this is a dummy feat right? It does not give any ride AC on this server.

In the Forgotten Reams horses are quite often used. With the DM events they are also on amia. But from the lore towards the mechanics. If I understood you right, it would look the following way:

Horse
Appearance: CEP Horse (Solves Polyproblem for PC used horses)
Override: Possible
Requirement: Mounted Combat Feat + 25 or 15 dream coins
New Stats: Speed cut down 50%, ride no boni, other feats give no boni, negatives stay in place.
Mounted Combat: Ability unlimited uses, dismount and mount.

I'd prefer not a full cut down of 50% of the speed, but maximum of 25%. I do not know what great mechanical benefit it would bring except out manuvering or running away, but a horse should not gallop as fast as a man can run. With the Feat it would mean the only benefit you would get from the mount is 25% speed increase. Additionally, a penalty to perform and concentration may fit for horses. Not sure if the 50 penalty to hide and such is acceptable for amia, as SDing on a horse might be a bit... odd.

Bioware:
- Feat Not Required
- The rider receives half the hit points of the horse in the form of temporary hit points.
- 50% Speed Increase
- Armor class + 1 for every 5 of the check result. (Mounted Combat)
- 50 penalty to disable trap, hide, move silently, open lock, pick pocket, set trap, and tumble while riding
- 4 penalty to attack rolls made while mounted and wielding a ranged weapon (-2 if using Mounted Archery)

Amia by Phearnun:
- Feat Required
- 25% Speed Increase
- 50 (or more) penalty to disable trap, hide, move silently, open lock, pick pocket, set trap, and tumble while riding
- 4 penalty to attack rolls made while mounted and wielding a ranged weapon.
- possible penalty to perform and concentration skill

Amia by Mosh:
- Feat Required
- 50 penalty to disable trap, hide, move silently, open lock, pick pocket, set trap, and tumble while riding
- 4 penalty to attack rolls made while mounted and wielding a ranged weapon.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

I literally would force any character that wants to get a horse to take the mounted combat feat.

But this is a dummy feat right? It does not give any ride AC on this server.

As speed is already deemed a problem, I think the feat boni that everyone sees as way too overpowered will likely not grant it's benefit. :wink:

So, in short, you want your character to look awesome, so we should overhaul the entire fucking server, the haks, the balance issues, and all of that so you can have a horse, and then on top of it insult us with things like

Quote:

After Sherlock Tormak found out I actually want a horse, having cleverly noticed that in the past four months I said that is the case in party chat, I decided to post a topic about horses where the actual problems are given suggested solutions.

This?

No thanks.

Not to mention ICly there are no areas that make sense for a horse or horses to be brought in. You are asking for something that will not be done, and if it IS done, it will be discussed by people who are actually devs and designers and not someone who snuck in scripting changes under a DM's nose for their faction.

Locked; the peanut gallery (as normal) does not make these decisions.

Knights of the Coconut [Part 2] - Revenge of Sir Robin

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