AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Jack O'Bannon wrote:

Most likely you should put at least one skillpoint in 'use magic device' so you can use wands and scrolls. The rest you could dump into spot if you want some sneak detectiness. I would consider to go for epic skill focus spot intead of will. Your saves are already pretty high as BG.

Dont pick dirty fighting. The feat is crap.
Get knockdown instead.

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

Jack's advice is spot-on. Luck of Heroes at 1st is never a bad choice, and your unused points go right into Use Magic Device. I also think I'd drop 2 from CON and put it in STR at creation, then all level increases to STR. I'd take KD (or whatever you like) instead of Dirty Fighting, and Great Strength I instead of Epic Will. 14 CHA can be buffed to 26, which is +8 AC / damage SOMETIMES, and your save bonus...which is perfectly sufficient. Ending at a 24 STR (using these suggestions) nets you +3AB / damage ALL the time over your original build, and AB is where it's at..

Thanks for the replies!
Combining these two answers, how would it be if did something like this?

BG 16/FIR 12/ROG 2

Starting Abilities:
STR: 15=22 (by pure leveling)
DEX: 8
CON: 12
WIS: 14
INT: 10
CHA: 16

Feats (in this order):
Pre-Epic:
Luck of Heroes*, Power Attack, Blind Fight, Toughness, Cleave, Lightning Reflexes, Wep Foc, Iron Will, Divine Shield, Wep Spec, Divine Might, Improved Critical.

Post-Epic:
Armor Skin, Epic Wep Foc, Epic Fortitude, Epic Wep Spec, ESF: Spot, Epic Fiend, Epic Prowess, ESF Discipline.

*Regarding Luck of Heroes I am really unsure if I should stick with this or get Strong Soul... +1vs Death Magic sounds nice but im unsure how it works in-game.

Skills:
Like the idea about not having to worry about sneaking assassins. Why is Spot better than Listen btw?
Discipline: 33
Tumble: 30
Spot: 26
UMD: 1

Templar wrote:

Why is Spot better than Listen btw?

Spot checks fire more often than Listen checks.

Someone refresh my memory is the generic Ranger build 4figher/2rogue/24ranger or 4figher/1rogue/25ranger? I am going to guess the former since you get evasion that way.

25 Ranger/4 Fighter/1 Rogue.

Better companion and extra feat.

>.< Sadly I discovered my Pure Ranger is currently dex based... and I am not sure why cause he does poop for damage without the beastie. Hrm... Hes currently 21 Ranger, any suggestions to take advantage of the dex? Obviously epic dodge is out of the question.

Taking fighter levels for Epic Weapon Specialisation will make your damage a bit less sad. Not much you can do as a pure ranger, though.

Well with Bane of enemies and that hopefully it will be less sad. >.< My boar is fricken amazing if that counts?

So, I understand that a lot of the subraces have had their ECLs changed / removed. Is that so? And if so, which / to what extent?

If by "a lot" you mean "Genasi"...

Made a bard who won't be taking Lasting Inspiration. I have a choice between Lingering Song or Extra Music.

Extra Music = 4 more songs/day, so more uses of Bard Specials, Songs, and Cursesongs.

Lingering Song = Every song lasting 5 rounds longer.

What say you?!

Shrewd wrote:

Made a bard who won't be taking Lasting Inspiration. I have a choice between Lingering Song or Extra Music.

Extra Music = 4 more songs/day, so more uses of Bard Specials, Songs, and Cursesongs.

Lingering Song = Every song lasting 5 rounds longer.

What say you?!

I say don't play a bard unless you have lasting inspiration >.> But I would choose lingering song. Long duration means you can spend more time hitting things without having to waste a round or so.

Quote:

Made a bard who won't be taking Lasting Inspiration

You're not rolling a bard.

Sure am!

Lingering song seems to be the way to go, thanks for the advice.

That's correct; if you don't take 20+ bard and Lasting Inspiration, you are NOT allowed to call yourself a bard.

Also, while I'm at it, if you do not take 1 level of Rog / Monk / HS on your Paladin (for Tumble and/or UMD, of course), you are no longer allowed to call yourself a 'Paladin'.

If you do NOT have the Death, Travel, or Plant domains, you may no longer be called a 'Cleric'

If you did NOT take 1 level of Ranger in epic for the free feat and armor prof, you can NOT be called Wizard / Sorceror / Mage

I'd go with Lingering Song and tell everyone to get bent, myself :twisted:

Okay re-tried the 12/16/2 ftr/wm/rog build with a wood elf and ended up at 51 AB without aid/bless and 55 AC. I had to sacrifice blindfight to keep EWS.

How does it look? Also, i'm a rapier WM

Don't drop Blind-Fight. Drop IKD instead. You won't be worth a damn as a melee specialist otherwise.

Yea, I felt bad for doing it but you're right. IKD is out.

If you are not taking IKD there is really no use in taking KD. Look for something else in there.

Yeah, there is. It's either going to be Great Fortitude or Ring of the Ram, and I'd rather take Knockdown as a feat and an extra +3 Fortitude on an item from the opened mythal slot.

However, if you're not dead set on a rapier, you could take exotic weapons and use a weapon like a bastard sword for a damage boost.

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

That's correct; if you don't take 20+ bard and Lasting Inspiration, you are NOT allowed to call yourself a bard.

Also, while I'm at it, if you do not take 1 level of Rog / Monk / HS on your Paladin (for Tumble and/or UMD, of course), you are no longer allowed to call yourself a 'Paladin'.

If you do NOT have the Death, Travel, or Plant domains, you may no longer be called a 'Cleric'

If you did NOT take 1 level of Ranger in epic for the free feat and armor prof, you can NOT be called Wizard / Sorceror / Mage

I'd go with Lingering Song and tell everyone to get bent, myself :twisted:

You're an idiot and none of your examples even come close to the real situation, which is rolling a bard without taking the ONLY BARD FEAT IN EPIC IN THE ENTIRE GAME.

TormakSaber wrote:

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

That's correct; if you don't take 20+ bard and Lasting Inspiration, you are NOT allowed to call yourself a bard.

Also, while I'm at it, if you do not take 1 level of Rog / Monk / HS on your Paladin (for Tumble and/or UMD, of course), you are no longer allowed to call yourself a 'Paladin'.

If you do NOT have the Death, Travel, or Plant domains, you may no longer be called a 'Cleric'

If you did NOT take 1 level of Ranger in epic for the free feat and armor prof, you can NOT be called Wizard / Sorceror / Mage

I'd go with Lingering Song and tell everyone to get bent, myself :twisted:

You're an idiot and none of your examples even come close to the real situation, which is rolling a bard without taking the ONLY BARD FEAT IN EPIC IN THE ENTIRE GAME.

Name calling, Tormak? For shame...that would get a thread locked with a quickness AT MINIMUM if it were anyone else.

My POINT was that according to the 'advice' one typically sees in this thread, the above examples are just as 'necessary' as your Lasting Inspiration is to a bard. I won't reduce myself to the level of name-calling and public ridicule; just wanted to clarify. Relax, have a drink...it's just a game.

I have reached an issue with my planned Rogue/Fighter/WM build using a rapier, ending 26 DEX, Epic Weap Spec, and Epic Dodge. Here are the two builds and the only difference between them:

Rogue 17/Fighter 6/WM 7
***Has Armor Skin

Rogue 19/Fighter 4/WM 7
***Has Crippling Strike

The question: Armor Skin or Crippling Strike?
I had considered removing Epic Weap Spec, but loosing the extra damage on a DEX build would kind of suck, eh?

17/6/7, Armor Skin. Nooo way should you drop Epic Weapon Specialisation, especially for Crippling Strike.

Oh yeah definitely not dropping Epic Weap Spec. Can't pass on it lol

Really was just wondering about the AC vs STR dmg. I was thinking that AC overruled, just wondering what the outside opinion was

'Nother build thingamajigger:

On a pure 30 level Monk, would these be fine stats and feats?

STR: 10
DEX: 18 (26)
CON: 10
WIS: 12
INT: 12
CHA: 10

01: Monk(1): Blind Fight, Luck of Heroes, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}
02: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows}
03: Monk(3): Weapon Finesse
04: Monk(4): DEX+1, (DEX=19)
05: Monk(5)
06: Monk(6): Weapon Focus: Unarmed, {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown}
07: Monk(7)
08: Monk(8): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
09: Monk(9): Dodge, {Improved Evasion}
10: Monk(10)
11: Monk(11)
12: Monk(12): DEX+1, Improved Critical: Unarmed, (DEX=21)
13: Monk(13)
14: Monk(14)
15: Monk(15): Alertness
16: Monk(16): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
17: Monk(17)
18: Monk(18): Great Fortitude
19: Monk(19)
20: Monk(20): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
21: Monk(21): Epic Weapon Focus: Unarmed
22: Monk(22)
23: Monk(23)
24: Monk(24): DEX+1, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=25)
25: Monk(25): Armor Skin
26: Monk(26)
27: Monk(27): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline
28: Monk(28): DEX+1, (DEX=26)
29: Monk(29)
30: Monk(30): Epic Fortitude, Improved Spell Resistance I

Or, should a pure Monk go flashy with STR based?

From a prely powergamer view: cha to 8, wis to 14.

You won't be able to kill anything and being caught flatfooted will completely trash you, but as far as pure monk Dex builds go, it's good enough.

I prefer SR builds for my pure monks... >.> 50+ Sr ftw.

TormakSaber wrote:

From a prely powergamer view: cha to 8, wis to 14.

No, bad Tormak! No powergaming builds! ;p

PaladinOfSune wrote:

You won't be able to kill anything and being caught flatfooted will completely trash you, but as far as pure monk Dex builds go, it's good enough.

Yeah that is very true. Wouldn't that go the same as for a Monk 20/Rogue 10 build though? Or am I missing something? Is it the Epic Dodge that makes it better than the DEX based Monk 30?

Maverick00053 wrote:

I prefer SR builds for my pure monks... >.> 50+ Sr ftw.

Yeah the SR thing is pretty sick lol

Also, I have absolutely no idea why Alertness is in that build O.o

Remotely curious here. Monk/Cleric/Shadowdancer build with 8 attacks per round using Kamas (Not including Haste, only Flurry).

I took Imp Two Weapon fighting as opposed to Blind Fight (on my test character) which gives me an additional attack at only my highest AB-3. Should I ditch that extra attack for Blind Fight or keep it as it is?

He's got Epic Dodge and all those magical fun goodies too.

Ditch it for Blindfight. An SD without BF is asking for trouble.

Is there any way to make a character with 10 RDD levels both functional and tasty? The only thing I can come up with is a bard 20/RDD 10, but a bard without lasting inspiration makes me feel all dirty and horrible.

Bard/RDD ++++
Monk/RDD +++
Fighter/RDD ++
Barb/RDD ++
Rogue/RDD -
Paladin/RDD ++
Cleric/RDD ++
Druid/RDD -
Ranger/RDD -
Sorc/RDD -
Wizard/RDD -

Oh, and 20Bard/10RDD can take lasting inspiration
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Lasting_inspiration.< - Source

Quote:

The bard song requirement is specifically the level 20 bard song feat, so this feat cannot be taken with fewer bard levels (but can be taken at bard level 20).

For the love of all that's Unholy, do NOT take 20 bard w/o Lasting Inspiration. I'll never believe that LESS than 20 bard is a waste of levels, no matter who says otherwise...but don't take 20 Bard and no Lasting Inspiration.

20 Bard/10 RDD is pretty decent and fun to play. That's the only one I'd recommend.

Oh, don't say no to the monk/RDD either ... Fast and deadly. Can get some decent AB, too. Challenging WM's

I had fun playing a 18 Fighter 2 Bard 10 RDD dual wielding Kukris with a Dev DC of 43.

MoshingChris wrote:

I had fun playing a 18 Fighter 2 Bard 10 RDD dual wielding Kukris with a Dev DC of 43.

That's why i put Two pluses(+) on my little list beside the fighter/RDD. :mrgreen:

Last edited by The1Kobra on Mon, Jun 06 2011, 11:31 AM, edited 1 time in total.

I had also come up with a way to make a working sorc/RDD spellblade build with 10 RDD levels, never got around to making one IG, I'm afraid I don't have a character concept to stick it to. However, it did look good on paper.

The one thing I've never figured out how to do is making a working kobold 10 RDD that would work well... the -4 STR runs counter to the big benefits of the RDD class.

EDIT: Oh, oops, forgot the build, posting it up >.<

Human
15/10/12/14/8/16
8/4/8 Sorc/Fighter/RDD pre-epic, 16/4/10 Post-epic
1: Extend Spell
1: Blind Fight
2*: Weapon Focus
3: Power Attack
3*: Cleave
5*: Weapon Specialization
6: KD
9: IKD
12: IMPR Crit
15: Still Spell
18: G-Cleave
21: OV Crit
24: DV Crit
27: EWF
30: Armor Skin

26/10/14/16/8/18

AB: 14+5+3+14(str)+5(enh)+[8](Tensers) = 43[51]

I had a bard/RDD Kobold with dev.crit? It was fun?

Bard 20/RDD 10 it is then. Its the only concept I can justify with a proper character concept. I am thinking of the following build, and hope to be corrected if there are some glaring mistakes in it:

16 bard/4 RDD pre epic, and last bard level taken at either level 24 or 27. I would prefer 24 to get lasting inspiration as early as possible, but unsure if that is worth loosing 1 ac from maxed tumble. UMD shouldnt be an issue either way.

Feats: Martial weapon prof (if human), blind fight, wep focus, extend spell, max spell, imp critical, KD, IKD. Post epic: EWF, lasting inspiration, armour skin and epic prowess/ESF:perform or ability stat depending on the build.

I'd personally go Bard12/RDD8 pre-epic to net a higher Fort, and out of sheer masochism. It also gives you access to the +2 INT boost earlier, meaning you'll get more out of it. And yus, last Bard comes last for last Tumble, yo. Feats look good, Epic Prowess over ESF Perform with that, says I.

Quote:

I had a bard/RDD Kobold with dev.crit? It was fun?

No, that's stupid. Stupid in a way of being silly.

You probably wont need ESF Perform on only 20 Bard Levels. You only need 50 Perform for level 20 Bard Song. Thats pretty easy to get with just a piece or two of specialist equipment, on top of 30 ranks and a Charisma mod of ~10. I'd take Fortitude or Discipline before it.

But the big omission is definelty Curse Song. Its an absolute must.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Quote:

I had a bard/RDD Kobold with dev.crit? It was fun?

No, that's stupid. Stupid in a way of being silly.

It surprised a lot of people.

Ab in the low 50's. AC in the high 50's

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

But the big omission is definelty Curse Song. Its an absolute must.

Oh good Jesus, YES.

Must have for Bards
Curse song (A MUST)
Extend spell (Handy)
Maximize spell (Save mythalslots)
Wep focus
Imp.Crit
Blind fight

That's 6 feats. You have 2 spare if you're human, 1 if you're other.

Somehow I misread Bard/RDD for Bard/PM. Now I want to make a Bard/PM who mounts strings on his bone arm and uses it as instrument.

The bard/PM Isn't to shabby honestly. Gets a few more spellslots and loads of AC - Pretty much the ideal partymember.
It can buff
It can tank
It survives indefinitely.

With some spell penetration it could even become a caster-bard?
Maybe focus in Illusion and get a kickass DC On the silence spell

Oh, a Bard idea? I've heard of Skalds, tell me how they would work? Not making one, but curious

Uh, depends on the concept? I think a skald is the nordic (Viking) Term for a bard honestly...

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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