AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Naivatkal wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Your going 21 Con. . .

Then take Epic Damage Reduction 1 2 3

That's only 9 damage shrugged off each time, does that really make a difference? I've just always been curious about that.
Like the mythal power DR +5/5, does that 5 damage really help?

Well the Barb DR is 9/-, while the Mythal one is removed with a +5 weapon so

Obviously the barb one is in a different level than the mythal. Now is it worth it... well... it depends.

Lets say you have, being barb, at least 600 HP. The enemy hits you for 30 each 4 times a round... he hits each time and you will survive 5 rounds. With the 9/- DR you will survive about 8 rounds. Obviously that is a pretty pathetic example but you really have to ask yourself if you feel it will be worth it. Depending on how much barb you take, which already gets natural DR, then on top of it the epic DR you are looking upwards to 16/- DR total with the epic feats on a level 29 barb. In that case I would say it would be very much worth it. I've fought many dex based characters during the years that without crits, or sneaks, barely hit over ten most of the time.

In the end it is personal preference.

Edit: Since that build has 24 barb he gets 5/- naturally so the 9/- = 14/- DR every hit.

Its actually 19/- + 10 percent because resistance and immunity stack.

If you put that into context on 600hp at 30 damage a hit over five attacks per round.

Four rounds without the above DR/- if every attack is a hit.

Fifteen rounds with the above DR/-.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

It's Great Fortitude and Toughness you should drop, not Blind-Fight.

Oh yes, brainfart. Sorry. And what Moshy said.

Also because of creature claws, DR/- is actually the better option for PvM.

Useless-ish in PvP because of Scimitars/Kukris/Rapiers.

Dunno about that! My old dwarf had 13/- Dr and she did wonderful in pvp with a fire shield potion. They kept hitting, she took got 4-5 damage and endured.
Having 29/- makes you nigh immortal i say!

Ahhhh see that makes more sense.

And I completely forgot about the barb nat DR as well hah!

So should I stop worrying about the weapon spec damage, eh? I can pull two Fighter levels and swing the three Epic DRs then
Though there is still a free pre-epic feat heh. Wondering if I should just hit up Great Cleave.

STR: 17 (20)
DEX: 10
CON: 18 (22)
WIS: 10
INT: 12
CHA: 8

01: Barbarian(1): Weapon Focus: Greataxe
02: Barbarian(2): {Uncanny Dodge I}
03: Barbarian(3): Power Attack
04: Barbarian(4): CON+1, (CON=19)
05: Barbarian(5)
06: Barbarian(6): Cleave
07: Barbarian(7)
08: Barbarian(8): CON+1, (CON=20)
09: Barbarian(9): Improved Critical: Greataxe
10: Barbarian(10)
11: Barbarian(11)
12: Barbarian(12): CON+1, Knockdown, (CON=21)
13: Barbarian(13)
14: Barbarian(14)
15: Barbarian(15): Blind Fight
16: Barbarian(16): CON+1, (CON=22)
17: Barbarian(17)
18: Barbarian(18)
19: Barbarian(19)
20: Barbarian(20): STR+1, (STR=18)
21: Fighter(1): Epic Damage Reduction I, Armor Skin
22: Fighter(2): Epic Weapon Focus: Greataxe
23: Barbarian(21)
24: Barbarian(22): STR+1, Epic Damage Reduction II, (STR=19)
25: Barbarian(23)
26: Barbarian(24): Epic Damage Reduction III
27: Barbarian(25): Terrifying Rage
28: Rogue(1): STR+1, (STR=20)
29: Rogue(2): {Evasion}

Discipline 30(35), Intimidate 32(31), Taunt 30(29), Tumble 30(30), UMD 31(30), remaining skillpoints 11

So confused. What subrace are you using that you only have 29 levels.

Because FYI with my EDR barb I took

3 EDR (2 Fighter, 1 Standard)
1 Terrifying Rage (Barb Bonus)
EWF (1 Standard)
Armor Skin (1 Standard)
Weapon Spec, Epic Weapon Spec (1 Standard, 1 Fighter)

MoshingChris wrote:

So confused. What subrace are you using that you only have 29 levels.

Sorry, forgot to copy that in again.
This build (without WM) is Earth Genasi

I thought Genasi subraces got their ECL adjustments removed.

Sidebar says +1 still, I thought it was +2 originally and dropped to +1. But never played them so I could be wrong haha

The sidebar list is outdated, and the removal of the ECL was quite recent if I recall.

Hah! Win! YESSSS

Revised, still one pre-epic feat remaining. Great Fort? (Might be two with human base race?)

Barbarian(24), Fighter(4), Rogue(2), Earth Genasi

STR: 17 (21)
DEX: 10
CON: 18 (21)
WIS: 10
INT: 12
CHA: 8

01: Barbarian(1): Weapon Focus: Greataxe
02: Barbarian(2): {Uncanny Dodge I}
03: Barbarian(3): Power Attack
04: Barbarian(4): CON+1, (CON=19)
05: Barbarian(5)
06: Barbarian(6): Cleave
07: Barbarian(7)
08: Barbarian(8): CON+1, (CON=20)
09: Barbarian(9): Improved Critical: Greataxe
10: Barbarian(10)
11: Barbarian(11)
12: Barbarian(12): CON+1, Knockdown, (CON=21)
13: Barbarian(13)
14: Barbarian(14)
15: Barbarian(15): Blind Fight
16: Barbarian(16): STR+1, (STR=18)
17: Barbarian(17)
18: Barbarian(18)
19: Barbarian(19)
20: Barbarian(20): STR+1, (STR=19)
21: Fighter(1): Epic Damage Reduction I, Armor Skin
22: Fighter(2): Epic Weapon Focus: Greataxe
23: Fighter(3)
24: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Greataxe, Epic Weapon Specialization: Greataxe, (STR=20)
25: Barbarian(21)
26: Barbarian(22)
27: Barbarian(23): Epic Damage Reduction II
28: Barbarian(24): STR+1, Terrifying Rage, (STR=21)
29: Rogue(1)
30: Rogue(2): Epic Damage Reduction III, {Evasion}

Discipline 31(36), Intimidate 33(32), Taunt 31(30), Tumble 30(30), UMD 31(30), remaining skillpoints 9

You should aim to land on an even STR at least, so either start with a point higher or lower STR, whichever way works, though it is obvious which would benefit you the most buildwise.

I don't still see the point in taking Cleave, and as far as PA is concerned, I wouldn't spank someone for taking it pre-epic: there's a curious set of gloves that will do the trick, and honestly, you don't use PA outside of PvM at all. Yes, this would mean separate gloves for PvM and PvP, but every decent character does it.

But yarp, your build seems good and able.

20 Bard / 10 Pale Master - does it get the Winterwight?

Don't think so.

Swallow the Stars wrote:

20 Bard / 10 Pale Master - does it get the Winterwight?

Nope! For good reason to. That would be so overpowered if it could >.<

It needs to be 20 Wizard/10 PM or any combo of the sort. I think you can get the WW with a bit less wizard or PM but its been ages so I do not recall 100 percent.

It is something like you need a CL of 32 in total of Wizard/PM combined, and PM gives +3 CL, so a level 1 PM has +4 CL. I do not remember. I have never played a PM Wizard. But i know you can drop atleast 1 wizard/pm level!

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

You should aim to land on an even STR at least, so either start with a point higher or lower STR, whichever way works, though it is obvious which would benefit you the most buildwise.

I don't still see the point in taking Cleave, and as far as PA is concerned, I wouldn't spank someone for taking it pre-epic: there's a curious set of gloves that will do the trick, and honestly, you don't use PA outside of PvM at all. Yes, this would mean separate gloves for PvM and PvP, but every decent character does it.

But yarp, your build seems good and able.

Cool yeah I wasn't sure about the Cleave or not. Great Cleave I usually don't worry about but I like that Cleave effectively gives you an extra attack (granted only at specific times). And without Cleave I wouldn't even take Power Attack lol

Any ideas for the extra feats that would free up? Toughness, right? lol :p

Cleave is bugged with four attacks and doesn't work properly. Great Cleave fixes it.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Cleave is bugged with four attacks and doesn't work properly. Great Cleave fixes it.

Good to know. I thought it acted a little queer before

I am still getting a little stumped on skills and feats.
I found I had extra feat slots (all pre-epic) so I plugged in:
Luck of Heroes
Bullheaded
Expertise
Improved Expertise
Great Fortitude

Of course, I had to change the stats a bit, and WIS got dropped to 9. It can be made up by a +1 WIS somehow, but still :/
I figured I could play the char off as the type to charge into battle, despite the 13 INT, but I dunno. Gotta think on that. Course I could just put it back to 12 INT and 10 WIS. The Imp Expertise was just for added tanking help (and I really didn't know what other feats to take besides Resist Sonic and Acid haha).

I've heard it said that some Listen is decent because wizards do not usually get any MS so hearing them is easy, so I tossed the extra 5 points into that. Sounds reasonable?

Personally I'd say if you're going 13 int then go for improved knockdown. Far better than improved expertise.

I could also swap Great Fort for Imp Knockdown

Expertise and Barbarian Rage seem the total opposite of each other. I would(cheesily/cheekily) get around the contradiction of having both on the same character by throwing in the ol' Gollum/Smeagol split personality, so that you could have a wussy guy who used the Expertises and a nutcase who used the Rages, but to have them running simultaneously smells.

I have a slight unease about using Improved Knockdown during Rage since it's an INT-based skill; you can actually maintain the plain KD by hotkeying it before you get IKD and not updating that slot. That way you can use the clumsy dumb-ass KD when Raging and the clever technical skill of IKD when not.

I'd go for the save feats over anything else; Luck of Heroes, Great Fort, Strong Soul etc etc. There is a case to be made for Skill Focus Discipline/Intimidate; they're 3/5 of a Mythal Slot, which is about as good as pre-epic save feats anyway.

Putting it that way does make some good sense. Imp Expertise was for the extra tankness, but I suppose just regular Ex

Honestly, I'm just trying to finish selecting feats because it doesn't need that many haha.
Perhaps I'll take out the Improved, leave Expertise and Knockdown, and just take Resist Sonic and Acid (or maybe replace Expertise with Resist Fire as well heh). That will stack (for elemental only of course) and help with the DR already given by the class and the feats in epic, correct? Just dunno the value of those feats.

Am currently working on Barbarian/ Cleric build. Most I have done and seen are high levels cleric with a few barbarian but I want to reverse it. Basically making a Barbarian that can buff up a bit to gain a big AB.

Thinking Barbarian 15/ cleric 15 or Barbarian 20/ cleric 10 ratio or even Barbarian 22 and Cleric 8. Any suggestions regading this or any classes that should be added to it that would help?

Sorry but you'll gain 100% More by going 25+ of either class.

Nah. 17 Barb 1 Rogue 12 Cleric works pretty good.

Can anyone tell me how the parry skill has been nerfed? Every third attack can be blocked now?

It is not nerfed, it is flat out broken.

oh...I thought Bioware nerfed it in one of the updates.

So, Druids. I figure a 25 Druid / 4 Fighter / 1 Rogue would be fair, but is there any way to capitalize on a Shapechange form or something?

Naivatkal wrote:

Putting it that way does make some good sense. Imp Expertise was for the extra tankness, but I suppose just regular Ex

Honestly, I'm just trying to finish selecting feats because it doesn't need that many haha.
Perhaps I'll take out the Improved, leave Expertise and Knockdown, and just take Resist Sonic and Acid (or maybe replace Expertise with Resist Fire as well heh). That will stack (for elemental only of course) and help with the DR already given by the class and the feats in epic, correct? Just dunno the value of those feats.

Bumping this. What are good feats for barbs? Should I just take the Resist Sonic and Acid and maybe Fire?
Do they add in to the DR already in the build

If I have a spare feat

I like called shot.

Called Shot rests in my "useless as hell" pile due to how easy it is to max Disc. on the server.

Then put IKD there aswell. Called shot is useful just like IKD in that regard.

Yeah true. IKD is something I was considering too.

What about the DR part? I think I will just do the two/three Resist feats but want to make sure that the DR is not going to clash with them (I figure they all work together but I could easily be wrong).

MoshingChris wrote:

Then put IKD there aswell. Called shot is useful just like IKD in that regard.

Yeah, but on the offhcance someone fails their discipline, being knocked down and breaking their action queue for the round is WAY more useful than -2 atk, or -20% movespeed and -2 dex.

TormakSaber wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Then put IKD there aswell. Called shot is useful just like IKD in that regard.

Yeah, but on the offhcance someone fails their discipline, being knocked down and breaking their action queue for the round is WAY more useful than -2 atk, or -20% movespeed and -2 dex.

I've always thought that called shot is for the ranged fellows, and IKD for melee.

Called shot works pretty fine on melee chars. Especially in combination with knockdown. 1. attack knockdown and the rest of the flurry called shots. And when the guy gets up again he has a pretty crippled dex and movement and is thus much easier to hit.

Making a tracker/bounty hunter/paladin like character using cleric and rogue classes.
What I want to know is using 13rogue and 17cleric, which class should I take at what level and what feats and skills should I pick up and which to avoid. Going for more of a fighter than a caster and intending on taking Epic Dodge.
Stats I'm planning on:
Str 10
Dex 16(+2elf)18=> 25
Con 12(-2elf)10
Wis 16 => 19
Int 12
Cha 8

Suggestions / halp go.

My curious little self has been considering strength based HiPS options. Here's what I've been thinking so far.

Fighter/WM/SD, Greataxe user.
Ranger/WM/SD, Dual wielding battle axes.

Are there any major pitfalls with either of these that are going to defeat the purpose?

Khaunwalksthisearth wrote:

My curious little self has been considering strength based HiPS options. Here's what I've been thinking so far.

Fighter/WM/SD, Greataxe user.
Ranger/WM/SD, Dual wielding battle axes.

Are there any major pitfalls with either of these that are going to defeat the purpose?

EDK will love your AC. Also once/if they ever change HIPS you will need a way to survive for 6 seconds.

All assuming you are wearing cloth for no -modifiers for sneaking.

I was thinking of just wearing the magic gear that gives a lot to hide, mythalling all my other gear to give a bit more to it, and accepting the full plate check penalty on top of my low dex to begin with.

Depends. If you are in full plate and trying to sneak, might suck. If you are just wanting HiPS for attack queue breaking, shame on you I hate you (mostly kidding).

Honestly, with Fighter 17/WM 7/SD 6 there's no problem with feats and such.
Fighter 11/WM 13/SD 6 should work, too

Got Armor Skin, Epic Fort, Great For, Imp Knockdown, Imp Critical, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Spec all in there with that.

Skillpoints wont like this.

Yeah I forgot to mention that, too.

Needs more SD/Rogue to actually work properly. But.... you can 'max' Hide/MS/Concentration/Discipline and have 30 Tumble if you plan it right.

Definitely not something I would look into doing, though

Stats would look like this:

STR 17 (24)
DEX 13
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 10

If he is going strength I assume he wants Dev.

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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