This is true, but it must be realized the more we "plan" for powerbuilds, the more we encourage them. It would be better not to bank completely on either, but shoot for the middle ground. Because the folk who "powerbuild" for the hell of it will do so regardless of whether it is directly required or no. But the folks wishing to play simple builds can easily become discouraged if they find they can't cut the mustard simply because they didn't think Rogue/Bard/Monk matched their PC's classes.

Ideally, we should be playing for completely RP and gameplay related reasons, but...well, that's ideally.

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It is realized, but nothing can be done about that specific issue so long as it remains a game for which there is a mechanical way of winning.

prescia, again. What do you mean "compared to X." it's a completely side comparison. One is well rounded and takes hardly no effort to play aside from from time to time, consuming a cheap heal potion, where as one, you get dispelled and everyone laughs at you. Take your pick. I don't see your point here.

Weapon masters aren't going to go broke any time soon. The gold output on this server is insanely high for any fighter class no matter how you look at it. Or any class for that matter. By your logic, archers shouldnt have to pay for ammo. Some classes just cost money to play, but at the end of the day, when you have 500 million gold, who cares anyways. Just be glad we haven't implemented durability or anything like that.

Adding annoyances to the game doesn't add fun. if you're trying to fix the economy, this is the wrong thread for that.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Haha really? The 25CL caster gets dispelled? I think that's a tactical error more than a weakness of a class.
Just heal potions? What about STR/DEX/CON pots? Invis and haste wands/pots? Flame weapon and other scrolls? Mindblanks? Freedom? NEP in a bottle? Need I go on?
Between Weapon Masters and Melee-Casters/Casters, I choose the latter.
Even more so now that dev crit got nerfed into oblivion.


Okay, if gold output is high for any class, what do casters spend on?
How does that equate into my logic = archers get free ammo?
I'm saying casters should pay too. Since the physical types have to pay to buff.


On the contrary, there are already more than a handful who would revel as you agonise.
Some random pickings from this thread which I think might cause annoyances to some.

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Prescia the Pristine Voice

There's a difference between adding tedious things and balancing the economy by removing the problem.

Also, 25 CL does get dispelled. Maybe you should read what Mordenkaiden's Disjunction actually does (or spell breach).

PvM isn't the only thing on the server, you know. Not every person you fight will just autoattack you to death.

Also, those pots are so cheap that it's hardly even worth mentioning. I've played both sides of the table, and it's really nothing to complain about. You don't even need NEP everywhere you go. Not to mention having potions can give you a leg up from having to cast spells (if you have to ask, I suggest you google it as to why), sometimes, as well as having an infinite supply.

Also, using those pots as a fighter/WM actually gives you a higher chance to resist getting dispelled than alot of actual mages. Funny, right?

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

greater dispelling can't dispel CL over 24. Mord can dispel all CLs as it's uncapped.


max 35 vs 12+CL so CL 23.


Spellbreaches only remove spells on this list, starting by checking for number 1 then moving down the list until they have removed the preset number of spells..

Mord breaches 6 spells on a single target or 2 spells on AoE, then does the dispel check on the rest.

Lastly ... I don't get why people keep whining about the economy on Amia. I've NEVER had a problem with that and I don't grind much.. when I need coin I grind, and I spend time on trying to get epic gear or coin. When I don't, I don't.. It's just that simple. If people complain that it's broken, it is because they either don't have the patience to grind at all or because they HAVE Grinded so much and is just pissy that 50 other people have the same number of coin and 'epic gear'.

Doing a wipe because SOME people focus on one or the other to correct a problem is pretty darn stupid. It'd be like blowing up a country because it's corrupt, so you can start from scratch or somesuch.. and it'd piss off those of us who aren't bothered with the current system because we don't spend several hours each day trying to get a full set of epic items. If you want to do that, hey.. kudos.. but I'm going to focus on RPing. And if you want to get more RP done too, then hunt less and live with the fact that you won't squeeze out that 1 extra AC, save or AB from your items, because in 95% of all cases.. you won't ever really need it.

Live and let live. If you're the hunting sort, Amia can accomidate you currently. If you're the RPing sort, you can do that too.. or you can do any variation of the two. Doesn't mean it's broken just because people that spend many hours on it get rich. Simple fact is you can get rich trough just participating in DM events too when rewards are handed out in forms of various mythals, unique items, DC's or good old fashioned fun.

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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer

That is a very good point grave, but its still a problem in my eyes that a relative lowbie area is flooded with epic loot hunters.

I still say firegiant king should not drop epic

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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker

Firegiants is a...lowbie area?

At lowest, it's late teens, in a party. Unless your definition of lowbie is anything non-epic, then I have to say I disagree.

Besides, Spires would be still rather popular without the FGK anyway. +4 loot bin on creatures with common vulnerability? Yes, and thank you.

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The 4.5 Concept sounds like Actand/Beholders/Demons.

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

its lowbie compared to the level 30 who storms through it, and trust me its not fun standing in line because 10 level 30's want to run through it and kill the king for the potential loot, while you really just want to level

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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker

That seems more or less like something to handle IC. I don't see the need to make a place less appealing to a certain PC range because some folk aren't presented with instant gratification. If you're just in it for the hunt, there are more places than Spires to party. Unfortunately, very few bother to hunt at a place they have not ventured with another character. Which is sad, really.

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Amusingly enough I leveled about half of my level capped PC's there in Mourn. I was/am never fond of the Abyss for the last 4 levels.

I've only killed Bidoc 3 times though, and his predecessor once.

those traps are just ugh..

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

something to be handled ic...hmm..so you want me to take it up icly with people why they are hunting that place, why thier groups are running the place over and over and over again..and when asked icly they are fighting the fire giants..I find it hard to see how i can solve that with a "but your only hunting for the fire giant kings treasures, please let us less experienced fighters train here"...cause that really goes over well with evil egocentric (icly speaking) that some chars are...oocly..people call first come first served..every single time...not matter how low level you are...i cant see a single good reason to make the fire giants this attractive to people who are 10 levels above the level range of the place..i just simply cant..and as for other places...in my experience fire giants fill a gigantic hole in the leveling range....borg orcs are too hard and dont give anything near as good xp..and the underwater thing is waay to hard for a level 18....and if you think the 10 spawns of frost giants provide good hunting grounds..you are just plain wrong...epics..stick to epic areas..leave the leveling grounds alone, unless you have ic reasons to be there..thats my oppion

PS what i find sad...is not that people grind to get leveling done..I find it sad that people grind a place thats so rediculus easy for a percentage drop of epic loot...go to mourn get a challenge, and a reward that fits your work, not because you where first to claim a place you can walk through with one hand bound on your back, playing through fire and flames on guitar heroes on your playstation, five starring it..with the other hand..and every 15 mins or so get the chance that the game throws something at you, which you earned by doing something basically as hard as standing in the crossroads complaining about how druids are too insensitive towards the feelings or arch demons.

((lots of editing

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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker

someone just give me one good reason why epic loot should be thrown in your head with no effort at all...

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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker

*sigh* Hunting is not OoC. Loot-hunting is not OoC. If epics are hunting that area for loot, then they are hunting that level for loot. So in a way, yes, I want you to do exactly what you said, if that would fit your character. Besides, the rule is you can't camp an area, so even if you fail to convince them the first time, so you have to wait a few minutes*shrug*.

My epic has done exactly that at times. And he is anything from a nice guy. A group of young adventurers show up behind him while he's trying to make money for hist rent, he goes "Bah... you greenhorns go ahead. I don't want you whining about your conquests. Just don't die. When I'm back, I will not be picking up your bodies, I swear."

Edit: And what exactly is your question? I don't understand it. Why should epic loot be....?

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fire giants and the yuan-ti is basically a give away of epic loot..its so rediculus easy to do..i get the grind for gold, that I get, but i dont get why the epic loot is so easy to get..

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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker

"Easy" is a relative term. What's easy for the mix-maxed WM, the HiPS-spammer, or the stacked Wizard may be impossible for other classes to do without a party.

Why is it so "easy"? Because your PC is good at what he/she does. You want it to be harder? Go for harder spawns, areas. And I'd have to say, it's pretty much only "easy" if you're grinding.

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how the hell cant the firegiants be easy to a level 30?..have you made a close combat wizard with no spells? my point still stands since the place is ment for chars 10 levels lower...relative to people levels they get epic items thrown in the back of thier heads when doing the spire epic runs

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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker

That's not really a point so much as an opinion. A lv 20 character killing FGK has the same chance of getting loot as a lv 30. The only difference comes in with grinding.

Now, you could argue that it is easier for a lv 30 to grind than a lv 20, but that is more a problem with grinding than character hunting where they ICly want to hunt.

A higher level character can usually kill things easier and faster. Being better at killing things means you're better at attaining treasures, usually. It's a completely IC thing.

But to answer your question, yes, there are amazingly, some builds that can't solo, or are based around parties to the point where it is too tedious to do so. Or even more amazingly *gasp* those who choose not to because there are more interesting things to do than gain gold which is rapidly turning into shiny paperweights, rather than currency.

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so by your reasoning you should make kobolds drop epic loot too because a level 3 gets the same chance?...and thats just what it is to me..a lowlevel dungeon (compared to a level 30) with a immense output for little effort..why not make a simple dispensor that drops a epic loot every server reset...it takes about as much effort for a grinder..expect that would block low 20's from leveling in the spire

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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker

Reductio ad absurdum only works when someone states a slide rule of logic. I have not. I have stated a fact. The chance for loot on a Boss is 5%, whether the character is killed by a lv 30 or a lv 20. I don't even see how you reasoned to that end, because I certainly didn't.

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" have stated a fact. The chance for loot on a Boss is 5%, whether the character is killed by a lv 30 or a lv 3. I don't even see how you reasoned to that end, because I certainly didn't"

I ask again..why should fire giants drop epic loot

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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker

Yeah, this topic's done.

Thank god.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham