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Murex

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 13:08 PM

Player

Joined: 01 Dec 2009

If you can mythal +1d10 damage onto weapons and such, then nobody will be trading epic loot anymore because it can be created. The only thing epic as far as loot would be the mythal needed to make epic gear. The fix would be to eliminate all epic loot, rework the mythal system to allow for more options, and have bosses just drop the mythal.

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Selmak

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 14:11 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Very_Svensk wrote:

On the topic of bosshunting. This is for those who want Bosshunting to be a team effort. Do you think Aussies or early europeans will be able to participate in such with that low number of players online?
Don't make it a Timezone thing.

The screenie is from my usual playtime.(A monday)

And as I said, if you ask someone nicely, they might get up early or stay up late to help you out. That picture indicates what happens when you just don't bother to ask.

Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 14:24 PM

Player

Joined: 11 Sep 2008

Selmak, would you care to join me for a bosshunt later?

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 14:26 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

How does 06.00 in the morning sound for you? :mrgreen:

What? You're sleeping then? Dnaaw ...

Anyway - The point is that it's unreasonable to ask that. It's more fair to leave it be, albeit its crippled.

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Selmak

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 15:03 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

a) I have no bosshunting character, only pre-epics. But I'm sure if you ask someone else they could help you out.

b) There are occasions when I have been logged in at 6am so that wouldn't be a problem. It would be the throbbing ache in my hands that would force me to log off, most likely.

Swallow the Stars

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 16:07 PM

Player

Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Location: Southeast (USA)

Boss Hunting is fine the way it is, methinks. Never had any problems with it, and I never did it much. However, what was suggested earlier - about reworking the mythal system to grant more creativity - seems like a novel idea.

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Espiel Callahan

Naivatkal

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 16:07 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

Bob wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

The problem with that is that most epic loot isn't really sold, but is traded for other epic loot. Meaning that it creates an even larger riff between the haves and the have-nots. If epic loot was actually being sold more often than traded, it wouldn't create as much of a problem. Basically, the system that is in place currently further perpetuates the boss-hunting.

How is this a problem?
"I don't want to hunt for epic loot but I want it?"
The nice thing is that unlike DCs, it is completely in the player's hands to obtain. It's actually a fairer system.
More importantly though, with the mythal system, I dare say Epic loot helps but isn't compulsory.

Wait... really? That doesn't explain why people cannot simply sell epic loot for gold. What if the non-farming player has a ton of coin and wants to buy something epic? What is wrong with that?

Uberuce wrote:

Quote:

Perhaps the ghost of the boss could come back to haunt you? Haunt your wallet, anyway. This would happen at some randomly determined time a couple of RL days after you spawned it, which ought to make it less easy to bypass the system by banking gold with other players

Or better yet, make it so bosses are always too cowardly to come and face the mighty ECL30's unless they tempt them out with bait, the bait being a single use item that is sold in suitable shops and costs tens of thousands of gold.

Fire King: blow a horn to challenge him to a duel for the throne
ASB/Windreaper: steak made of some exceptionally tasty animal
Mindflayer Dom: open a jar containing the brain of some rare animal we homebrew which is the cerebral equivalent of caviar.
Pirate Cap'n: crack open a barrel of the finest grog in all the planes.
Babylon: an even skimpier bikini, covered in diamonds.
Bidoc: a pair of built-up shoes that don't look it

Maximus and the Actand bosses can just charge ECL30's the money to work the phylactory and make the crossing, respectively.

This is an interesting idea.

Murex wrote:

And then you see people farming bosses and charging exorbitant prices for said mythals.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 16:15 PM

Player

Joined: 11 Sep 2008

Naivatkal wrote:

Wait... really? That doesn't explain why people cannot simply sell epic loot for gold. What if the non-farming player has a ton of coin and wants to buy something epic? What is wrong with that?

What's wrong is when some people insist they should be able to buy, as if it was a god given right :lol:

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Naivatkal

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 16:26 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

That is very true, which is why it's simply the irritation one a chosen few being able to get said loot without hunting. And also why my main is working to fix that.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 16:32 PM

Player

Joined: 11 Sep 2008

A long time ago, some members of the ACTF used to do that; Farm bosses to supply epic loots to others.
Coin was made. Coin that is now OOCly considered useless, by some.
But hey, if the player feels it's worth doing, who is to say otherwise?

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Naivatkal

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 16:40 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

Yup yup.
It's moreso the character, really, in Tyrus' case. I've thought long and hard about it, with myself firmly in his boots, and it's the logical choice for him. He has a merchanting background thanks to his father in his youth, so he has a fair grasp of things. Plus, he thinks the current system smacks of elitism (he hunts, too, btw, just not endlessly) and he despises that.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Uberuce

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 18:50 PM

Player

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Coin that is now OOCly considered useless, by some.

I dispute that it's OOC.

Glyph

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 22:38 PM

Player

Joined: 10 Jun 2010

it is ooc because as i've been trying to say for a page now, it was said last time that there is no way to icly solve this problem, because it won't fix the economy, which is why I bought up something that should have remained dead and buried, long forgotten in the depths of the abyss of bad topics =/

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 22:54 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Sure there's an IC way of solving this issue.

Throw in a new currency, Like; The cordorian government and the Kholingen keep all agree that the adventurer's influence of the market has brought it to it's knees and thus nulls the cordorian crown; And reinstates a new coin called [XXX].

How to keep that coin 'valuable' is a different problem. Perhaps make the coin-loss upon dying 100%, and make banks which can only store a finite amount of the 'new' gold?

Grymia

Posted: Mon, May 02 2011, 23:06 PM

Player

Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada

Not quite sure Cordor and Kohlingen would be inclined to initiate a new currency as yet given current events. (Though I could be wrong honestly)

That said: I admit, I can't quite think of how to make the economy of Amia drop back to proper position.

I reckon the DMs , Designers and Dev team of anyone would have the best idea how to do it in a way which will make as many people as possible happy while keeping those that aren't happy's unhappiness to a minimum.

Feonir

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 0:04 AM

Player

Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Lookin at folks like a son-of-a-bitch.

Traditionally inspiration for such things can be drawn from MMO's who offer little trinkets at insanely disproportionate prices. Like a few million gold for a fancy plc for player houses or ten million for a companion like npc of a cat or a moth or something inconsequential save for its uniqueness and shinyness that will suck up money faster then an american at a buffet.

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Selmak

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 0:38 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

A few ideas have come to mind while I've been playing. Just ideas though, not 'stuff I will definitely push forward'.

Raise Scrolls are still too cheap. They should be pegged as equal or more expensive than Heal potions. Else you have the dilemma of, do I just let myself drop and hope someone has a raise scroll, or do I chug a heal potion? Errm... personally I would go for the heal potion, since it lets me stay in the fight and help. But cheapskates may wait for a raise.
Loot and gold for areas which are significantly below the PC's level are too much considering how effortlessly you can clear them. I would suggest dropping the loot chance if you beat a creature three levels lower than you are (Easy rating). I would suggest gold reward only if you beat a creature more than three levels lower. If you're in a party, the party's average ECL should be used for the check.
Put checkpoints in dungeons and require that you (your party) clear at least one standard-sized encounter worth of monsters between checkpoints. If you don't, no loot or gold in that dungeon until you double back and kill what you (should have) spawned. If you kill things on your way back out of the dungeon, no gold or loot until you return to the first checkpoint and then progress to the second. Okay it is a bit draconian, but it encourages you to vacate the area after one entire run either using the exit provided or using a portal wand, letting another group have a crack at it.
Healing kits are seriously under-priced considering what they do. True, they do weigh more, but they have a great utility in and out of combat.
Merchants give a bit too much gold for your stuff. Perhaps a small cut across the board is in order. Or maybe buy prices should vary a bit from week to week, encouraging you to go seek merchants who are having a bit of a shortage on goods instead of throwing everything blindly at Hil'rash.
Lore potions can save you quite a bit of money on identification. So can various items giving a Lore skill bonus. Put the items and potions in as loot drops instead.
Bags should be at the very least be more expensive. Especially the ones that reduce the weight of contained items by 80%.
Allow the buying of tickets for transport in advance, instead of on the spot as it is presently. I have a suspicion that players would be willing to pay for bulk plans on this.

jimbono1

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 2:15 AM

Player

Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Location: England

Selmak wrote:

[list][*]Raise Scrolls are still too cheap. They should be pegged as equal or more expensive than Heal potions. Else you have the dilemma of, do I just let myself drop and hope someone has a raise scroll, or do I chug a heal potion? Errm... personally I would go for the heal potion, since it lets me stay in the fight and help. But cheapskates may wait for a raise.

The only problem i really see with this is for lowerlevel characters. How are they supposed to afford it? It'd make Clerics more useful in leveling up, sure, but they're not always that easy to come by.

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drahgon

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 2:25 AM

Player

Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho

Selmak wrote:

A few ideas have come to mind while I've been playing. Just ideas though, not 'stuff I will definitely push forward'.

Raise Scrolls are still too cheap. They should be pegged as equal or more expensive than Heal potions. Else you have the dilemma of, do I just let myself drop and hope someone has a raise scroll, or do I chug a heal potion? Errm... personally I would go for the heal potion, since it lets me stay in the fight and help. But cheapskates may wait for a raise.

Um... incase you didnt notice.... raise scrolls cost more than a heal potion, unless you are saying 1 raise scroll should cost more than 10 heal potions

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Keelah Se'lai

Selmak

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 2:32 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

At the really low end in terms of character levels, respawning is often cheaper than a raise, and the XP loss is easily made back. Plus there's at least one free Raise scroll available from completing quests. Can look at increasing that, seeing as how most quests are a bit dangerous to complete.

Uh, Heal potions cost just under 4000 gold. Raise scrolls are 2000 or just under.

DerkDerkistan

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 2:54 AM

Player

Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth

I played on a server where the merchants had a price cap on items. So these pieces of loot that you're selling for 60k+ would only be sold to the NPC merchant for 7500, or less.

A server-wide gold wipe coupled with that would certainly help make gold more of a commodity again.

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drahgon

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 3:07 AM

Player

Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho

Healing pot is 3.1k for me and raise scroll is 1.8k... Do you really think the 1,300 gold change is going to make any sort of impact? except to low lvl chars?

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Keelah Se'lai

Last edited by drahgon on Tue, May 03 2011, 3:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 3:08 AM

Player

Joined: 11 Sep 2008

jimbono1 wrote:

All casters should have to pay for material components approximately half the value of a scroll of that spell level.

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ainjyll

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 3:49 AM

Player

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

DerkDerkistan wrote:

That would just move us to a completely item-based economy where people hold onto all their items in the hopes of trading with someone for what they need.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

jimbono1 wrote:

All casters should have to pay for material components approximately half the value of a scroll of that spell level.

And how exactly is that supported by lore?

To quote the PHB:

Quote:

Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with a negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.

Basically, unless the spell descriptor says otherwise, there's no gold cost attached to a spell. That's not to mention spells that only have verbal or somatic components. Why does it cost gold to move your hands and mutter some arcane phrases?

Could it help lessen the gold carried by mages, clerics or bards? Yes. Would it do anything to lighten the pockets of the nastier of the WM builds that only chugs potions? Nope. Nice thought, but it would only affect the casters and not the non-casters. Try again.

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Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 4:04 AM

Player

Joined: 11 Sep 2008

ainjyll wrote:

Would it do anything to lighten the pockets of the nastier of the WM builds that only chugs potions?

It balances the caster pocket versus the chugger pocket.
The chugger is consistently being hit by having to buy potions, which last a shorter duration than the free caster spells.
Think about this point again, sir.

The chugger has expenditure and upkeep.
The caster currently has none.

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ainjyll

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 4:13 AM

Player

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

Would it do anything to lighten the pockets of the nastier of the WM builds that only chugs potions?

Not only have I thought about the point you're bringing up, but many others have as well... others with equal or excessive knowledge to my own in this subject... and the idea has already been dismissed. If you'd like to know why, I'm sure the search function will yield you with the answers to your questions.

You have done nothing to address my other points. Explain to me why suddenly gold begins to disappear from your pockets just because you wave your hands in the air and mutter some arcane phrase... specifically, I'm speaking about spells that only have verbal and/or somatic requirements.

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Murex

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 6:23 AM

Player

Joined: 01 Dec 2009

Naivatkal wrote:

Murex wrote:

And then you see people farming bosses and charging exorbitant prices for said mythals.

The prices won't be that high if you think about it. All a character needs would be about 7 of them. A character of mine has aquired about 20 pieces of epic gear from bosshunting, but the problem is that most of it isn't useable. I would have only had to get 7 instead of 20, so that means less bosshunting because the character decides what to craft with the epic mythal instead of being stuck with unuseable items.

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Selmak

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 6:29 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Yeah but in effect you'd be as well going with a barter system where you can pick what item(s) you want.

Murex

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 6:53 AM

Player

Joined: 01 Dec 2009

Selmak wrote:

Yeah but in effect you'd be as well going with a barter system where you can pick what item(s) you want.

The problem is that some epic items are a much higher value than others- Sure Strike Dagger is worthless compared to some Epic Gloves of Discipline. With a modified mythal system, all epic drops will have the same value and nobody will be trading or selling epic gear for millions and millions of gold. In fact, there will no longer be a need for having millions of gold anymore.

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Zifon

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 9:53 AM

Player

Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Denmark

Murex and his mythal thoughts are actually starting to make sence to me

The reason I started this tread was to be honest that I was pissed caused I saw the same player logging in 4-5 different characters in a row at Windy's, thereby claiming the area for a good hour..
Changing epic loots with epic mythals dosent change that, so I'll still like to suggest some kind of 1 boss pr reset pr CD-key system...

Uberuce

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 10:05 AM

Player

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.

Pondering aloud: if there was a Huge Mythal added to the system that bridged the gap between Greater and Perfect/Divine/Flawless/+5bin and cost a complete fortune to craft, that's us with a gold sink that I know I would be completely unable to resist pouring cash into. Even though it's not as good as the uberbin, it's still a smidgeon better than the +4 and that is enough.

What I have in mind is things like:

1d8 current Mythallable elemental damage, 2d6 twohanders
1d6 physical, 2d4 twohanders
1d4 divine, 1d6 twohanders

+5AC Vs Specific Alignment. This would still take up 3 Mythalling slots.

+1d4 Vs Specific Race, 1d6 twohanders.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 10:09 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

People would definitely burn cash to get the Divine glow

Dwagin

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 10:36 AM

Player

Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod

Make portal wands take gold.

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Naivatkal

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 12:21 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

Dwagin wrote:

Make portal wands take gold.

Ouch. I have a hard enough time finding mythals even lol

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 13:32 PM

Player

Joined: 11 Sep 2008

ainjyll wrote:

You have done nothing to address my other points. Explain to me why suddenly gold begins to disappear from your pockets just because you wave your hands in the air and mutter some arcane phrase... specifically, I'm speaking about spells that only have verbal and/or somatic requirements.

The same way coin disappears from your pocket when you hit the respawn button? What's the lore backing for that?
A lot of lore can be retconned to fit the Amian setting.
It's like how dev crit and GS suddenly stopped working.
Like how Drow can become AA.
How portalling suddenly worked on Forstakkr?

Retcon Lore: All magic on Amia has always required components.
Mechanics: To simulate component consumption, coin is consumed instead of having to carry tons of physical components.

Dwagin wrote:

Make portal wands take gold.

See this? Same line of thought here.
Leylines have always been a taxable form of transportation on Amia.
No lore? Retcon it. It's been done again and again anyway.

ainjyll wrote:

IC reasons are nice, but sometimes a suspension of belief is required for the mechanics to work.

Here, you summarised it for me, yourself.

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Last edited by Dramatic_Prince on Tue, May 03 2011, 20:02 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Kraniumbrud

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 13:37 PM

Player

Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark

i just wish that the fire giant king didnt drop epic loot, you can bring him down as level 18, and from then on god and his cousin jeff just hoardes the place, making leveling rather hard on those who actually needs this vital step in the leveling chain..i suggest either making the fire giants ALOT harder..and i mean all of them...or remove the epic loot..i would actually say the sam about the pirate zombie thingie and maxi..am i the only one who thinks epic loot should come at the end of a huuuuuuuuge trip with lots of danger such as the abyss and ramparts..and such..?

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Selmak

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 13:41 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Uberuce wrote:

Well I have to agree there's a big gap. And it is a good idea to have something suck the money back out of the economy like it's never been sucked before. The downside is: oh crap more crystal hoarding. Could we maybe limit them to one per PC at any given time, so they need to be used or traded before you can get another?

DerkDerkistan

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 14:11 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth

I like that idea. I just wish that the mythalled gear was able to be better than lots of the stuff you find in the lootbin, epic or even just the +4 stuff. There's a whole lot of roleplay that's being missed out on because sometimes people just realize they can find better in a drop.

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Selmak

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 14:20 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Okay. I'll quote this and put it in IA then. See here.

Dark Immolation

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 15:01 PM

Developer

Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"

Why create even more mythal grades? Just put the new powers on Perfects. They barely have any practical uses beyond Keen and Bonus Spellslots. One would figure as you go higher in the ranks, larger in the size of the mythal, you'd have better effects.

I've already come up with a list of properties and effects that I think would fit them well. I might submit them, depending on how extensive or not they would be to script. Not a small amount that would particularly favor meleers.

Which reminds me, um.... no random gold tacked onto all spells, tyvm. Potion chuggers pay "upkeep" with gold so they can dip into the powers and effects they didn't spend classes to. Net gain, little expense, no room to gripe. Casters pay for their wellspring of effects through lower base HP, lower base AB, and all around less stamina when it comes to going without resting through spawns and such. You can swing a sword all day ingame. As long as you're keeping your HP up that is. And it's a little jejune to assume that automatically people potion-users must pay for they spells they access, that classes based around spells should have to do the same simply because.

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Last edited by Dark Immolation on Tue, May 03 2011, 16:30 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Selmak

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 15:11 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Dark Immolation wrote:

a) Put it on the new topic.

b) Don't worry about how extensive they are to script. It's not as complicated as wibbly-wobbly timey wimey stuff. Just post them.

c) It's just easier to create a new mythal grade, that's why.

RaveN

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 15:19 PM

Administrative Developer

Joined: 08 Jun 2010

Ho -ho-hold on here.

Weaponmasters chugging potions is not a big deal. They have the ability to absolutely pwn every boss and every farming area by themselves with relatively not much effort needed.

They can grind more cash than most other classes in the game, Pres.. Casters included, unless you do some lame domination crap, etc, etc. Still, they're not hurting.

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Kraniumbrud

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 16:00 PM

Player

Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark

Needled247 wrote:

agreed, the problem isnt the price of heal potions or the raise dead scrolls, its just too easy to bring down the fire giant king and that skeleton thingie, the snow beast..and if you have a decent fort save the pirate too...i say get rid of all of them..or make it bloody hard to get there..(personally i think hell, ramparts and the undead mansion is good enough)

ps I still think the fire giant is the biggest problem as it affects others than boss hunters too when you have level 30's cramping in a level 16-22 leveling area...it really is a problem imo

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Yossarin

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 16:03 PM

Player

Joined: 23 Jan 2006

Any discussion of boss hunting leads to the conceived problems of the player economy. This entire thread has become a rehash of the same ignorant statements, obvious observations, and fortunately a few genuinely novel insights but otherwise?

Same old same old. But good luck with it, anyway.

Silent2001

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 16:13 PM

Player

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire

Boss hunters should practice moderation. Problem solved.

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Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 17:21 PM

Player

Joined: 11 Sep 2008

Needled247 wrote:

Weaponmasters chugging potions is not a big deal. They have the ability to absolutely pwn every boss and every farming area by themselves with relatively not much effort needed.

You mean compared to a melee caster? :lol:

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Glyph

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 17:36 PM

Player

Joined: 10 Jun 2010

Quote:

Boss hunters should practice moderation. Problem solved.

also the comment about weapon masters is about as vague as you can get, mine can't even wear full plate so I don't know what good you think that would do without a caster to at the least improve the weapon.

no further comment, stop picking on casters too the price is payed in hit dice and lack of and melee skills. not everyone umd tumble dumps with bard levels and buffs ac to the max but i'm done arguing in this thread.

TormakSaber

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 17:49 PM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Casters don't have low HP and they melee just fine.

Perversely enough.

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Glyph

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 17:54 PM

Player

Joined: 10 Jun 2010

again, your all assuming powerbuilds. im out.

ed: apply everything in this thread to someone who didn't umd/tumble dump, or go the fighter 5/6 dev crit route, or pure caster.

Yossarin

Posted: Tue, May 03 2011, 18:08 PM

Player

Joined: 23 Jan 2006

No. That would be like catering the entire educational system to those with learning disabilities. And don't disappoint anyone by claiming to be "out" and continuing to respond!

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