AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Last edited by Glyph on Thu, Apr 28 2011, 19:03 PM, edited 2 times in total.

..in the form of a sickle or dagger. please don't make me dig up why they can't use metal, its in the lore and rules section

ed: and the players handbook

also ed: shifters are a slightly different story. but cory could probably best answer that.

And scimitar.

Druids don't wear metal armor, unless they worship Mielikki.

Quote:

Druids can use metal.

No. They cannot. It is supremely frustrating to be correcting you yet again, Svensk. PLEASE do your homework.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

Druids can use metal.

No. They cannot. It is supremely frustrating to be correcting you yet again, Svensk. PLEASE do your homework.

Err... -I- have been told by quite a lot of druids that they can, Indeed, wear metal. And i can guarantee that a hefty majority DOES Wear metal, too.
Else there'd be a lot of dead druids on amia or a lot of Monk droods.

Lore says one thing but on amia they do it anyway.

he's not wrong its just there is alot of restriction on exactly which metal objects are kosher >_> thus the argument of druids in full plate, and the counter argument that crystaline materials arn't always metal, etc. lets not do that here.

for the benefit of those that etc, wearing metal, or using a metal weapon that is not aformentioned kosher, results, rply, in druids losing their spells. not a typo.

Glyph wrote:

he's not wrong its just there is alot of restriction on exactly which metal objects are kosher >_> thus the argument of druids in full plate, and the counter argument that crystaline materials arn't always metal, etc. lets not do that here.

for the benefit of those that etc, wearing metal, or using a metal weapon that is not aformentioned kosher, results, rply, in druids losing their spells. not a typo.

What Glyph said

..I have personally been thinking of going katana with a druid, and would restrict myself to wooden ones only, period. be it ironwood or particular ones from their descriptions.

druid is very in depth when it comes down to it, if your going for pure really do read everything you can >_> your mission is to maintain balance, right down to the merchantile options.

(when I had a druid shifter wizard I didn't even use metal rings >_> leafy ones only. but I probably take things a bit srsly.)

Glyph wrote:

he's not wrong its just there is alot of restriction on exactly which metal objects are kosher >_> thus the argument of druids in full plate, and the counter argument that crystaline materials arn't always metal, etc. lets not do that here.

for the benefit of those that etc, wearing metal, or using a metal weapon that is not aformentioned kosher, results, rply, in druids losing their spells. not a typo.

Druids cannot wear metal full plate. Period. Don't know who told you otherwise but they're wrong. Period.

So yes, he is wrong. Druids cannot use worked metal.

Even Mielikkan Druids can only use metal that falls under the ranger proficiencies. Rangers do not get heavy armor proficiency therefore thye cannot wear metal full plate.

By those standards, shouldn't there be a whole lot of fallen druids and rangers?

Probably. Start sending DMs names so I can start falling Druids.

The Mielikki exception has been talked about openly since I got here. The Ranger proficiency rule is novel to me, which I freely admit is hardly a yardstick for anything.

I must admit I couldn't bring myself to make my Mielikki Druid wear nae-kidding fullplate metal armour, but he Mythalled a couple of the blue dragon fullplates on infinite sale in the epic shops. Might want to do something about them, mostly because even the epic dragon armours don't claim to be made out of nothing but scale.

shouldn't this be a build topic, not "lets debate about things" -topic?

Full plate that's made of nonmetal materials such as dragon's scale is legitimate for a druid to wear. Worked metal is not.

TormakSaber wrote:

Full plate that's made of nonmetal materials such as dragon's scale is legitimate for a druid to wear. Worked metal is not.

Kosher: Laeral's Fullplate

Allow me to digress...with an actual build:

This is an idea I have for a Tuigan Skald (I think that's the word I'm looking for...), a warrior of unrivaled martial prowess, inspiring his comrades with his ferocity, skill at arms, and songs and chants of vicories past.

OK, the intro needs some work...

Human Tuigan

S 16 (17) - all stat increases to STR
D 11 (10)
C 14
I 13
W 9
Ch 13

Plenty of ways to min/max that, but I'm not interested for this build

1: Barbarian (LoH, WF whatever, I like scimitar)
2: Bard
3: Barbarian (BF)
4: Barbarian
5: Barbarian
6: Bard (Extra Music)
7: Barbarian
8 Barbarian
9: Barbarian (Imp Crit)
10: Barbarian
11: Barbarian
12: Bard (Lingering Song)
13: Barbarian
14: Barbarian
15: Barbarian (KD)
16: Barbarian
17: Barbarian
18: Barbarian (IKD)
19: Barbarian
20: Bard
21: Fighter (EWF, Armor Skin)
22: Fighter (EP)
23: Fighter
24: Fighter (WS, ESF: Discipline)
25: Bard
26: Fighter
27: Fighter (EWS, Epic Fort)
28: Bard
29: Bard
30: Bard (Epic Reflexes)

You can easily max 5 skills, so Discipline 33, Tumble 30, Spellcraft 30, UMD 33 are obvious choices. Put enough in Perform to safely use a level 8 song, then whatever you like. Don't get many spells, but Mage Armor, Ultravision, and Displacement are my choices. There are quite a few ways to 'douche' this up by min-maxing, but I want to know if this looks viable as is. Looking at an AB of 46 with max STR and a +5 weapon, 48 w/song (14 times per rest), 49 while raging (4 or 5 per rest), and 51 with both.

Tear it apart. :twisted:

A strange mix that Barb18/Bard8/Fighter6. I'd personally prefer Barb15/Fighter4/Bard11 or Barb15/Bard15 or Barb16/Fighter2/Bard14 with more Bard goodness at the expense of a lousier Rageometer, but sure, that works also.

That's pretty similar to what I've got at the minute in the sense it's a mainstream sword'n'board beefcake with a slice of Bard on the side, although I aim for Ftr8/CoT10/Bard12 by the end.

Brew Potion is your friend. With a caster level so low and all your spells brewable anyway, including War Cry if you do go for Bard10+, it's nice not to have to worry about arcane failure or Stilling spells. That said, I also took Extend Spell so she can fire off an Extended Haste before bossfights, and so that Mage Armour and Prot/Evil last for aaaaages.

At the minute, level 28, she's doing fine. Nothing fancy for 90% of the time; she's just another STR-base tank with EWS and Tumble/UMD, only she squeezes in a touch more AB/AC/damage from her buffs, but for eights rounds a day Divine Wrath makes her pretty fearsome. I suspect your build will wind up being much the same, only it gets slightly shallower but much wider peaks of grrr.

Was thinking of an Eilistraaen Darksong Knight which would be Paladin / Shadowdancer. Since I have not delved deeply into the Eilistraaen backgrounds as of yet, I was looking for Plus/Deltas on the build. My original thought was Dexterity based only because I do not wish to duplicate Mengala strength based build. Any hints, comments, or even rolled up newspaper swat on the nose would be appreciated.

I don't know what a Darksong Knight is. But surely Eilistraee does not sponsor Paladins...

so one could not be a paladin of Eilistraae even if she is a good god?

It's not so much the good part thats the problem. Its the Chaotic part.

Darksong Knights aren't paladins. Their abilities aren't anywhere similar, honestly.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Darksong Knights aren't paladins. Their abilities aren't anywhere similar, honestly.

Wasn't there a darksong knight that emulated it with HS Levels and Cleric levels?

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=52037&hilit=Darksong Here

Have the numerous LG drows/elf paladins of Corellon/Eilistraee been Falled in the past?

Yeah, I was thinking that'd be the closest fit, actually. Darksong Knights gain Favoured Enemy: Demon, along with Combat Dance, which is very similar to Bard Song.

Here.

hendrack wrote:

Have the numerous LG drows/elf paladins of Corellon/Eilistraee been Falled in the past?

No, but we reserve the right to make fun of them.

Fair enough.

Thanks Uncle and Uber. I actually have a 4 F / 16 Brd / 10 CoT (well, he WILL be...) and I like it a lot. I wanted to 'dip my toe' into the Barbarian class, because I've literally never played one, so I thought 16 levels would do the trick. Quite curious about the effectiveness of rage. Thanks again!

Go 20 bard. Loosing out on Lasting Inspiration and the number of Bard spells + Duration + Song power isn't worth all the other feats.

I hear that sentiment everywhere throughout the thread: 'Less than 20 Bard isn't worth taking bard at all!'...which is crap.

If I wanted a 20+ Bard, I'd build one. I don't. I wanted advice on the build I posted. I got that. Moving on...

re: druids

I never said metal full plate. but I also said lets not do that here cause I know, there is only metal full plate, no variants...you could still hollow out a golem or something. pm's use bone plate.

ed: but really lets not do this here >_> again. mechanically anything above chain shirt is like off limits or something. unless theres some sort of vine chain varaint I don't know about.

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

I hear that sentiment everywhere throughout the thread: 'Less than 20 Bard isn't worth taking bard at all!'...which is crap.

If I wanted a 20+ Bard, I'd build one. I don't. I wanted advice on the build I posted. I got that. Moving on...

You go 20+ bard if you want a "bard". What you're doing is a hack'n'slash tank with a smattering of bardly goodies. Basically, you go a smattering of levels or you go +20, nothing in between. You're going with a smattering, so you're good.

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

I hear that sentiment everywhere throughout the thread: 'Less than 20 Bard isn't worth taking bard at all!'...which is crap.

If I wanted a 20+ Bard, I'd build one. I don't. I wanted advice on the build I posted. I got that. Moving on...

You may be content in your wrongness

Ah...it's been a while since The Tormak has come out to cut and jab at anything I've written.

Quickly! To arms, lest the beast escape!

I speak only truth. You might be a bard on paper, but the amount and the strength of your sub 20 bard buffing is so easily dispellable, not maintainable ona aprty and difficult to upkeep that adding the 20 bard and taking lasting inspiration, there is literally no reason not to do it. One feat for 90 more rounds of Bard/Curse? Yes please, that's round you're not wasting buffing and songs you have to use for other uses , mostly to Curse other songs, and you need the 20 levels to upkeep Mass Haste and Hastes long enough,. 16 bard is BARELY cutting it on your turn a level spells, and I hate cutting it close like that: The world doesn't revolve around the 15 minute rest period.

TormakSaber wrote:

I speak only truth. You might be a bard on paper, but the amount and the strength of your sub 20 bard buffing is so easily dispellable, not maintainable ona aprty and difficult to upkeep that adding the 20 bard and taking lasting inspiration, there is literally no reason not to do it. One feat for 90 more rounds of Bard/Curse? Yes please, that's round you're not wasting buffing and songs you have to use for other uses , mostly to Curse other songs, and you need the 20 levels to upkeep Mass Haste and Hastes long enough,. 16 bard is BARELY cutting it on your turn a level spells, and I hate cutting it close like that: The world doesn't revolve around the 15 minute rest period.

QFT. If you don't have at least 20 bard levels, you might as well not be a bard.

Well, you'll be a bard, you'll be, uh, "functional" but you'll have a really short timer and you'll burn through your songs really fast. In about 8 spawns.

By that lojik, I should drop the barbarian levels, too. I mean...rages only last about a turn, right? What's the point?

If someone / something wants to burn an action dispelling my +1 from Mage Armor and Ultravision, more power to them. I'm not trying to build a caster; I'm building a warrior with a few Shiney Things.

ainjyll wrote:

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

I hear that sentiment everywhere throughout the thread: 'Less than 20 Bard isn't worth taking bard at all!'...which is crap.

If I wanted a 20+ Bard, I'd build one. I don't. I wanted advice on the build I posted. I got that. Moving on...

You go 20+ bard if you want a "bard". What you're doing is a hack'n'slash tank with a smattering of bardly goodies. Basically, you go a smattering of levels or you go +20, nothing in between. You're going with a smattering, so you're good.

I assume by now someone's looking for an AA build, or looking for advice on The Next Great Melee Cleric, so I'm done. :twisted:

Question for you peeps!

I've made a Dex-based Ranger who will end up with only 21 ranger levels, and 1 or 2 rogue levels. Main weapon is Rapier. His base Str is 14.

So, the question is, how can I get more damage output from him against enemies who are not favoured?

1) Load up on STR-buffing gear
2) Nab at least 4 levels of Fighter for Epic Weapon Specialization
3) Mythal weapons 'correctly' to maximize elemental damages
4) Uh...hope your pet does good damage :twisted:

Yeah, there's not a whole lot you can do there. You buff your damage like everyone else.

Alright, thanks for the info.

Bard 20/Fighter 10, Bard 20/CoT 10, or Bard 20/CoT6/Fighter 4?

Strength based, of course. What's the best combination?

hendrack wrote:

Have the numerous LG drows/elf paladins of Corellon/Eilistraee been Falled in the past?

I have no idea about Eilistraeen paladins, but I know that Corellon has a small number of paladins. The Order of the Forgotten Flower, a group who seeks out lost elven artifacts, is where they mostly are.

Re: Bard/Fighter/CoT

In almost every case if you don't have third class ambitions and are using fighter you'd almost always take CoT up to level 10. Beyond level ten CoT bonus feat progression slows down so 10 CoT is where you stop.

TormakSaber wrote:

Well, you'll be a bard, you'll be, uh, "functional" but you'll have a really short timer and you'll burn through your songs really fast. In about 8 spawns.

Still capable of helping in a pinch and so what if you have to pace yourself a bit, you're not a relentless monstrocity that can keep going while casting a billion spells like those silly mages. I found 16 bard to be real usefull, as in a RP sense it displays my character's main study and focus is indeed the Bard works but she's not quite the best at it, it's more so to get about the point she's a scholar by being capable of casting some spells and having a lot of knowledge about magical items while leaving room for 10 RDD and 4 of any other class which can be used to still get 4 attacks a round. 8D

tl;dr Found the "short timer" to be sufficient in my own experience. Guess it's more down to preferance.

So, I really hope this is the right place to post the following question.
I have recently joined the server, in fact only a few days ago and im enjoying myself alot. However, im not really that good with game mechanics, and its a very long time since i played the game..
That said I have made a few costly mistakes.. Its my first time ever RP'ing, and therefore i hadnt quite thought my character through as I made it. As of now I think i hav a very clear idea what type of character she is though... So I was thinking maybe you guys had some ideas for me.

Amelie de'aimeri started out as an Aasimar paladin, bound to serve vengeance to the evils of the world. She worships Sune. Lately I have felt that a more priestess sort of build would suit her character much more, instead of a frontline fighter. I have met other Sunites, and have been shown the temple. She now sets out in the world determined to show everyone that love and romance is the way to conquer the evils of the world, and determined to destroy anything that threatens the beauty of the world.
I was wondering if you guys had any ideas on a such 'priestess' sort of build, what I can do to change it and make it work well, while still holding on to the RP part of the character.

As of now I have taken 9 cleric levels, and 2 paladin levels.
I have made some costly mistakes regarding feats.. for example I have taken Martial Weapons (duh!) and power attack... Stupid.. yes i know..
I have Good and Healing domains.

My base stats (With aasimar + 2 Charisma and +2 wisdom included)
16 str
8 dex
15 Con
10 Int
16 Wisdom
17 Charisma

I hope I am not asking too much, or giving too little detail, but I really am unsure on how to procede with this character.. I hope players wiser than me in the ways of building can give me some ideas, hints or possibilities to work from..
I think perhaps it would make really good sense to keep her out of the touch of battle as much as possible. Sunites do not enjoy scars, and perhaps she is kind of worried about getting those?
I'm thinking perhaps Zen Archery?
Also from a RP perspective, since I kind of made the mistake of taking up the paladin levels, I may have to stick with that. I dont want to abandon the holy at all, but im afraid the pal levels wont fit into me not being a frontline figure as much? Would it be completely redicolous to rebuild away from the paladin levels? I know its a little far out...

Kind Regards
Amelie de'aimeri / Newly joined here on Amia.

MoshingChris wrote:

Re: Bard/Fighter/CoT

In almost every case if you don't have third class ambitions and are using fighter you'd almost always take CoT up to level 10. Beyond level ten CoT bonus feat progression slows down so 10 CoT is where you stop.

Yep. With 20 bard/10 CoT, you can get your bard spells up to circle 6, take Lasting Inspiration for super-long buffage, and take dev crit if you're so inclined, with a couple of feats left over for KD/IKD, Epic Spot (Spot is a CoT skill), or whatever else you want to do. Just watch your INT to make sure you've got enough skill points if you decide to take spot or whatever too.

Iriasis wrote:

So, I really hope this is the right place to post the following question.

....
I think perhaps it would make really good sense to keep her out of the touch of battle as much as possible. Sunites do not enjoy scars, and perhaps she is kind of worried about getting those?
I'm thinking perhaps Zen Archery?
Also from a RP perspective, since I kind of made the mistake of taking up the paladin levels, I may have to stick with that. I dont want to abandon the holy at all, but im afraid the pal levels wont fit into me not being a frontline figure as much? Would it be completely redicolous to rebuild away from the paladin levels? I know its a little far out...

Well, if you're staying a Cleric, then you're not abandoning the holy at all. I'm not clued up enough about the lore of Sunite Pallies to be sure if they're required to go out of their way to stomp the big bads the way a lot of other gods' are.

In terms of pure buildiness, if your design brief is a Cleric that doesn't like to mix it up toe-to-toe, then the two main options are:

1)Pure caster, that is you don't bother with Divine Might/Shield and instead focus on WIS and whore up the DC on whatever level 8 or 9 spell is RPly most compatible with your diety. I don't think this one really suits a Sunite since they'd want more CHA and about the only spell that really seems to fit Sune is Sunbeam, which isn't terrible, I suppose, but is a bit pants compared to the others. The one gets as many Cleric levels as you can; 30 is fine, but mechanically it's hard to argue against Tumble/UMD. Take Zen Archery just so you can toss a bit more DPS downrange, but don't bother taking other weapon/combat feats. This will get a beefy summon but still be reliant on having other players to do the actual rough stuff for you, which they will be able to do nicely since you'll have buffed them to high heaven.

2)Archer/buffer; get to 18 CHA at least, 14STR, WIS focussed and boosted from then on. Cleric25/SomeThingWithFullBAB4/TumbleDump1; this takes Divine Might/Shield, and tries to get Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot-or-Reload, Weapon Focuses, Improved Crit as well as Zen and the necessary Extend Spell, Maximise Spell. Still pretty reliant on other people because ranged combat in NWN isn't very good, but you will be mostly as good a party buffer as the caster flavour, only with a good bit more combat ability.

I really like that last idea of yours. Would you be able to PM me some information on how exactly to do it? Or perhaps direct me to someone, or a website that can? As it is I really do not know much about building characters, or how to do it properly with all the saving up skill points and other technical stuff..

Could that full BaB class be the paladin? That would fit well ICly. And what do you mean with tumbledump??

As of my stats, they are a little bit messed up right now .. Do you think it would be possible to move them a little bit around, to make them fit ?

Thanks for your help so far.

/Amelie de'aimeri.

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