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Gravemaskin

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 8:47 AM

Player

Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls

It would be awesome if the bosses gave more XP the bigger your party was (up to the limit obviously). It'd encurage people to try harder areas just for the 1-2k yoink off the big bad wolf at the end of the rabbit hole. Heck imho, coin and loot should go down and XP should go up. coin and loot already overflows the market and is stupidly easy to get a hold of.. heck, these days you can cash in for 1 mil + at level 15 easy.

Mind you, i'm not talking about the epic bosses now only, either. I mean all the bosses in the various dungeons and areas. Beef them up a little and boost the XP they drop, then make each hunting area only accessable once per reset! It's what I've always wanted, really. it cuts down on the need for mindless grinding to level, gives you a bit of an epic feeling when the big baddie finally goes down to you and your allies. PLUS it makes things a bit more realistic, and will keep people from standing outside the FG spires for the 6th time in a reset while they wait for the respawns.

But my idea may be moot and biased since I'm an avid fan of all spawns only popping once per character(not once per reset mind you) and with more XP/difficulty.

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Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 9:10 AM

Player

Joined: 11 Sep 2008

Gravemaskin wrote:

these days you can cash in for 1 mil + at level 15 easy.

To start, how about putting perfect mythal drops back to 1 in 3 chance?

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Gravemaskin

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 10:57 AM

Player

Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

To start, how about putting perfect mythal drops back to 1 in 3 chance?

i don't think that'd fix the problem entirely as people would just start agreeing to split the profits from any mythals the group gets. Another sollution would be for people to stop buying them for hoarding >_>

But another and perhaps better sollution would be to give him something else entirely, similar to the Desert ring you get from helping the Lathanderan chick. Perhaps a ring tied to fighting undead?

Example:
Ring of The Undead Hunter (Yes I totally stole that from the job system)
+3 AC vs Undead
+4 fort vs disease
5/- Negative energy resistance
1 use/day Cure Critical wounds(15)

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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer

hendrack

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 11:17 AM

Player

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

Can someone give me a summary of the last 3 pages, since I can't find the actual problem/topic thats being discussed.

Selmak

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 12:06 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

MoshingChris wrote:

This topic doesn't appeal to me at all.

I'll not inflict pain on people by upsetting the current spawn balance to appease the wants of the Collective Uberization of Numerous Toons faction of Amia.

Boss' I will look into however, what with the gold cap penalty removed and Dev Crit no longer being a serious issue I think its time to hamper down like Yogi bear.

That pretty much sums up what you can expect to see as a result of this topic. If you want to drag it on and on, you know, you can. But Mosh having said what he's going to do, don't expect any major deviation from the above.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 12:15 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

What about increasing spawn numbers? Will it be looked at?

For instance the example with the mindflayer den - there should be wave after wave after wave of slaves thrown at the unsuspecting adventurers, with insane amount of psionic energies flailing from the mastermind to cull the invaders. And this before you even reach the lower levels.

Maybe not exactly as above but at least a healthy doze of challenge.

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Selmak

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 13:15 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Well see there's the problem. Challenge the players too much, and they'll go find some easier dungeon or place. I know this may seem rather cynical, but they can see how much XP or quality of loot they're getting and they know how much effort they're putting in. If they can't think of a way to succeed they are likely to cruise around somewhere easier. If they do find a way to succeed they will milk it for as long as they can, because sod going to some other unknown area and figuring out the way to beat that.

I mean how do you make someone who thinks like that actually want a challenge? The old carrot and stick routine is getting a little old.

ainjyll

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 13:24 PM

Player

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

MoshingChris wrote:

Do you see anything about spawn numbers there?

Well, I guess that answers your question, huh?

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 13:26 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Well can't the developer team at least consider adding a few more spawns here and there in our hunting grounds. Like for future reference, you try to edit away the space between spawns PC's spend running and create an illusion of numerous enemies.

Edit - Ainjyll, Everything is open to opinion, No? Even if Mosh has stated that he will not, I can express my opinion and perhaps ...just perhaps .. i may have affected the decision.

hendrack

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 13:38 PM

Player

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

Who do you think decreased the ridiculous number of Yuan-Ti spawns? :lol:

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 14:39 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

In my opinion, The correct way would have been to reduce the loot they gave to +3, Instead of +4, And kept the spawns as they were.
Cuz they were deadly and i loved the place.

Zifon

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 14:42 PM

Player

Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Denmark

MoshingChris wrote:

Boss' I will look into however, what with the gold cap penalty removed and Dev Crit no longer being a serious issue I think its time to hamper down like Yogi bear.

Wont that just create even more boss hunters?
I have a feeling we dont like those too much here, at least I think thats why I'm in sort of a bad standing..

hendrack

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:07 PM

Player

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

Very_Svensk wrote:

In my opinion, The correct way would have been to reduce the loot they gave to +3, Instead of +4, And kept the spawns as they were.
Cuz they were deadly and i loved the place.

The issue wasn't the loot but the huge XP because of the high number of spawns. It was 30 spawns or such before the change. Also, they soak more money now from soloers because they don't use magic missile anymore which was easily negated with ghostly visage. Dunno if its lesser or greater missile storm, though.

Last edited by hendrack on Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:08 PM, edited 1 time in total.

billytheid

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:08 PM

Player

Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis

If people want a real challange couldn't they just set a time with a DM to do a party run through an existing area? I'll bet those ordinary monsters would be a damn sight tougher if they weren't AI controlled.

Could also be a nice way to throw in some little mini-plot hooks.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:19 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

billytheid wrote:

Ghhnn.... Set up a time with a DM To powerhunt? No thanks

I just want the hunting grounds a little realistic and not just Run from A - to B - Spawn in Between - Repeat.

billytheid

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:21 PM

Player

Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis

fair enough

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:23 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

Yeah. And now only three dragons are left alive from your genocide! *Cries*

Which?
The Blue, Pink, Silver? How about the Black?

Nono... Copper, Brass, Silver. Then i -think- there's a white roaming about... If it isn't dead

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:25 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Dark Immolation wrote:

We could always replicate a smarter IC enemy by reworking how spawning works a bit.

Take for example the Brog Orcs. In the first area, you spawn one mob, kill them, take two steps, and there are two more spawns. It's not like these blue bastards are just standing around, just out of your sight saying "Oi! Dey killin our ghuyz over there! Well, bedda not do nuthin' till dey come over hur." They'd likely be charging you for killing their clan. Just like any other sentient humanoid enemy would be.

So if we wanted to make it a little harder and "smarter" IC, have nearby mobs spawn after a set time, even if there are not triggered/engaged. If you take 5 minutes trying to kill a mob of humanoids, likely they're calling for backup, or at least their comrades are seeing all this fighting going on. And thus, the nearby mob triggers, and they swarm you too.

And as a response to your "mages nuking huge mobs" thing Selmak, if a mage can stand in the midst of meleeing enemies and enemy casters firing off spells without getting pounded, even by the high amount of 20's they're being met with from sheer numbers, then they're likely already cleaning up pretty well anyway. And besides, if and once we get in lv softcaps, it won't matter at that point. But it would add a neat and party-encouraging challenge for anyone who isn't an epic mage soloing an area 5 levels below their ELC.

This was a Gem in this debate.

Selmak

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:32 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Very_Svensk wrote:

I just want the hunting grounds a little realistic and not just Run from A - to B - Spawn in Between - Repeat.

Yeah but even if an area is developed which fills that "oh crap we're going to die" need, it's going to be difficult to find a party that wants to go through it. Especially once everyone's had a single go through it.

The first time it might be a bit scary, but after that it just goes downhill. If you know what's coming and you anticipate, you don't get a fright.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:41 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

But perhaps we can at least delay that inevitable barrelroll just a little, and perhaps that's resources well spent?
What about the 'New player perspective' then? New people pop in and lo and behold, they witness an amazing hunting ground with quirks, dangers and puzzles - Perhaps they'll be inclined to stay and continue?
It's as they say, First few seconds are those that are important.

hendrack

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:48 PM

Player

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

Selmak's right. I've seen scripted quests and hunting grounds on other servers. The worst part was that you had to RP the stuff with a theatralic gasp as if you've seen it the first time, despite going there for the n'th time. Fun at frist but more annoying with time. I take any party with good RP banter over that.

Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 15:58 PM

Player

Joined: 11 Sep 2008

Gravemaskin wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

To start, how about putting perfect mythal drops back to 1 in 3 chance?

LOL seriously? Did people do that back in the day?
All I've ever come across was if you get it it's yours. If not, tough luck.
I'll speak to the boys about fixing the market prices. Maybe we can peg it down to 500k a pop.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

Yeah. And now only three dragons are left alive from your genocide! *Cries*

Which?
The Blue, Pink, Silver? How about the Black?

Nono... Copper, Brass, Silver. Then i -think- there's a white roaming about... If it isn't dead

So Blue and Pink aren't dragons? Where's this Copper and Brass you speak of?

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Last edited by Dramatic_Prince on Tue, Apr 26 2011, 16:03 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Vaul Tarrith

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 16:01 PM

Player

Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Location: 9th Circle of Hell...with the steaks and Rum

hendrack wrote:

I agree with this 100%. As far as the boss hunting issue goes, it's damn difficult to stop. Eventually these people will go away, but again, the bigger deterrent (did I spell that correctly...?) is the player-base. If all these people CAN do is log in to kill bosses, they'll wander off. Stick to the RP, hit them with it when you encounter them, and do YOUR thing.

As far as the 'S00p3r 00bah Spawnag3' idea goes...play for 4 hrs on ANY action server once a week. If that doesn't resolve your bloodlust issues, nothing will. :evil:

Dwagin

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 16:03 PM

Player

Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod

For fucks sake people, leave some magic and mystery for those who don't know. Forcing that kind of info (How many dragons there are etc etc) on people by stating this stuff is injecting metagamable material into brains. WHY are you doing it?

Besides, if most dragons had the kind of power scaling like we have on Amia for PC's, you'd be crying in your nan's dress-folds about the big bad lizard that just ate your face and stole your shinies. Heck, some of their PnP PRCs even are that powerful, not Amiafied. Let that sink in for a moment.

/annoyed.

And OOC price fixing?

Nice. Not.

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hendrack

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 16:09 PM

Player

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

@Vaul

Boss hunting isn't bad per se. It's only annoying when characters are built to win the battle (barely) and take ages to kill one spawn on the way there. Should make a highway passing lane so they don't fuck up the spawns. I think that was the issue of the OP before this thread got into ten directions.

@Svensk

Instead of super duper spawns, make parties go to places on Amia they've never been before. I bet of all hunting grounds 90% are not used on Amia regulary and could be chopped away if it were not for some people RPing there. Thats more diversion and more realistic than wave after wave of spawns. Reminds me more of DoW2's Last Stand. Granted, the selection gets more narrow the more levels you have.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 16:21 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

hendrack wrote:

But how do we make -that- happen without making 3 versions of the same Hunting ground, And a transition that acknowledges the average level and sends you to the hunting ground appropriate for your level?
I mean, all you would have to do is to copy the hunting ground and alter the spawns while implementing three version of it.

But oh well. I suppose the ball on the castle will be boring and dull and ... and ... Absolutely perfect.

Naivatkal

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 16:36 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Gravemaskin wrote:

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

To start, how about putting perfect mythal drops back to 1 in 3 chance?

Tyrus won one in an auction for 500k the other day ;D
Only bidder, too lol

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hendrack

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:03 PM

Player

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

Very_Svensk wrote:

All you have to do is explore. Until ECL20 or so there's a shitload of areas. Ask Soundofastream what I mean. I think I haven't seen another non-dev player go to so many areas on the server. I am sure there are others too.

Selmak

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:07 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Having three versions of an area so that small and large parties can do the same content is a great idea if you have an engine that supports instancing. NWN doesn't, so you could actually have three parties in the same area because they're the same size and level range.

If you want to gate content so that small parties can't do it, you should have an NPC who offers you a quest but only lets you accept it if you bring a party of a particular size with you.

That's not exactly an OOC gate (see 'A magical forcefield prevents you from entering'). If the job the NPC has in mind is very dangerous, he's going to know that sending in one adventurer at a time isn't going to get it done. There are plenty of quests already that are hard to do if you don't have a group to back you up, so it's not like there's a huge difference if you only let sufficient-sized groups in.

Granted, you still have the problem of possibly having multiple groups in the same area, but there will be no singletons wandering in and getting mashed by the sausage trap and eaten by the egg bacon and spam monster, unless they drop party and run off right after arriving. Which would be rather silly.

DerkDerkistan

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:11 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

I'll speak to the boys about fixing the market prices. Maybe we can peg it down to 500k a pop.

This is everything that's wrong with this place.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:12 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

I just wish we could re-use the lower level hunting grounds for Epic people somehow, The best idea i figured out to be was to make a copy of the hunting ground and stuff some 25-30CR mobs in there and make sure only big boys could enter the big boy zone.

DerkDerkistan

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:24 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth

And the reasoning for that?

"Oh look, Kobold A. That group of adventurers are level 30. I guess it's time for us to go hide and let the long-hidden nest of young dragons come out to play."

"Yep. Poker at my place, Kobold B? I'll bring the drinks once I can mop up the adventurer blood sufficiently."

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:25 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Got any better suggestion to reduce stagnation for high levels and reinvent/Reuse the server's lovely areas.

DerkDerkistan

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:28 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth

I find that RPing a lot makes hunting stay fresh. Might be just me, though.

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Kudark

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:28 PM

Player

Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon

Very_Svensk wrote:

Got any better suggestion to reduce stagnation for high levels and reinvent/Reuse the server's lovely areas.

Sure, they can go to those places and RP! So what they mop up with one swing, it's all about the RP.

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PaladinOfSune

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:28 PM

Player

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK

Very_Svensk wrote:

The best idea i figured out to be was to make a copy of the hunting ground

Very_Svensk wrote:

Got any better suggestion to reduce stagnation for high levels and reinvent/Reuse the server's lovely areas

???

You're not reusing them there, you're making an entirely new copy... which is no less memory saving than making entirely new areas.

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hendrack

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:29 PM

Player

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

You perceive the stagnation because you levelled so much characters to 30 and got bored, me thinks. The average player doesn't have this problem and I don't think the server needs any change in this direction.

Selmak

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:40 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

If new dungeons are needed they should be new. They should not be copies of existing areas.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 17:49 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

The best idea i figured out to be was to make a copy of the hunting ground

Very_Svensk wrote:

Got any better suggestion to reduce stagnation for high levels and reinvent/Reuse the server's lovely areas

???

You're not reusing them there, you're making an entirely new copy... which is no less memory saving than making entirely new areas.

I Mean that we should re-use areas like land's end tavern or The Burning Crypts or maybe the Electric castle. Mainly because they were made with great care and are elegantly designed. To re-use old dungeons which are proven realistic, mysterious, and interesting and not forget about them just because they do not cater the epics.

Selmak

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 18:14 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Yes but cloning an area does not really preserve the good things about that area. Having two identical areas but designed for different level ranges is extremely unoriginal.

Gravemaskin

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 19:18 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls

*sniff sniff*
I smell the stench of WoW on this topic! I'm out!

*FLEE!*

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Ulir

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 19:32 PM

Player

Joined: 09 Mar 2009

haha, I thought the same thing.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 19:51 PM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

...who ressurected this horrible topic and do I need to read 50+ posts?

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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

TormakSaber

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 19:55 PM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

I read it anyways. I withhold comment on grounds of cruelty.

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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

corypx

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 20:17 PM

Player

Joined: 14 Oct 2006

necro thread of pointlessness..... HARM POTION, HARM POTION, HARM POTION.... lock.

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Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 20:22 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

corypx wrote:

necro thread of pointlessness..... HARM POTION, HARM POTION, HARM POTION.... lock.

Stop spamming. I, At least, tried to explain what i thought to be a decent solution to not using many of the old areas and perhaps push some realism back into some of the dungeons...

But fine. Spam away, Cory, Spam away.

corypx

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 20:30 PM

Player

Joined: 14 Oct 2006

Very_Svensk wrote:

your idea is to copy WoW with thier upgraded instances.... DM at anypoint can use lowbie zones for a plot...Aigheshed in Caraigh.

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Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 20:37 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

#1 been a while since i played wow, Three years to be precise, So i can't be held accountable for not knowing the new stuff they implement.
#2 it's not a bad idea. At least the lowbie zones get used more... Instead of decaying.
#3 Steal the best of another games idea, forsake the bad ones.

DerkDerkistan

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 21:37 PM

Player

Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth

I'd wager that the mid-level places are the ones least used, not the lowbie ones. But that's neither here nor there.

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Selmak

Posted: Tue, Apr 26 2011, 22:07 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

You know, I think that it's probably a better idea to highlight what it is that makes particular dungeons work for you, or what doesn't work for you, and let the people who design these things decide how best to use that information. Don't get all invested in a particular idea to fix it, just call it as you see it and be ready to provide more feedback if it's requested.

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