AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

20Sorc/Wizard and 10Rogue? At least it'll be OK, and with tensers average ab/damage

20 sorc/wiz is an odd place to stop. You don't have any epic spells.

It's all about playstyle. I' assuming when he said "Arcane Trickster" he meant he still wants to be a rogue, just with a few spells. And that can be accomplished with as little as 12-15 wiz/sorc levels. I've said before, levels 1-6 spells are where you find most of the buffs that make life easy for non-mages. And the buffs that make rogue-ing it up a piece of cake even lower(Improved Invis, Darkness, Find Traps, Knock, Haste, Clairaudience, See Invis).

It's really up to him, though. 23/6/1 works....but it's as much an Arcane Trickster as a 29sorc/1bard is an Eldritch Knight, IMO.

17 wizard / 13 rogue! That sounds fun, but horribly hard to play and not worth its salt in either rogue combat or wizard's combat.

Yeah 11/12 wiz/sorc is what I was thinking. Can't think of any spells over lvl 6 that would be useful. Iwas also going to suggest sorc so there is no prop required, but the INT using wiz makes some darn good sense, too. Rogues should have a decent INT as well, so it makes sense with the class and concept in my mind.

Perhaps 11 wiz/19 rogue makes sense, then? Plenty of rogue damage and such?

well, it needs SD levels too. And it's definately a sorc, not a wizard.

Welp that is gonna cut the sneak dmg of course, but then 12 sorc/12 rogue/6 sd at least then

23 sorc/1 rogue/6 sd then. If you prefer to be more trickster-like, I suggest more rogue levels. 23 sorc/3 rogue/4 sd can make it interesting too. Doesn't need to be a hipser.

Right, I've been coming up with a character concept for a little while know, a Kobold rogue/cleric of Gaknulak. But with that nasty -4 to str I have no idea what stats to go with, I was thinking 15 WIS and DEX and 10 INT and dump the rest into STR, how does that sound?

13Rogue/17Cleric used to work in the past..

I suppose a Dex Based Monk/Cleric could fit such a kobold, but i don't think kobolds are Lawful in nature?

Oh Kobolds are incredibly Lawful, but since Gaknulak's a god of traps, trickery, etc Rogue fits better IMO.

Hrm. I just checked out the Wiki about kurtulumak and some other stuff, and apparently they are.

Right. Let's see... 23Cleric/6Rogue? Or 21Cleric/9Rogue?

Or the plain 17Cleric/13Rogue - Epic dodger? It'll lack some in ab/Defence since it doesn't get the +5Shield of faith nor the +5AB / Damage from divine favour.
But you get epic dodge?

Speak to LetumLux, He's the Server expert on Kobolds. Perhaps he can tickle your senses with a fancy Kobold PRC you can emulate?

Epic Dodge is definately something I'm after, as for AC well, being a sneaker I hope he'd stay out of direct combat.

I already have the back story and lore sorted out, just not the build.

And the two classes you want are Cleric + Rogue?
Can't satisfy for a Cleric/Monk perhaps. It's a little cheddar of course.

Chizbo1 wrote:

well, it needs SD levels too. And it's definately a sorc, not a wizard.

Why does it need SD though? What's the background and aim of this character? Really think about what you want to play here.

Believe it or not, rogues do pretty fine in my experience without HiPS and they do exist without it. Not saying that your AT couldn't or shouldn't have it, it's just what's supposed to be the focus here, yanno?

Now, that being said, a shadow-themed sorcerer who uses his magics to enhance his natural inclination towards sneakiness is keen in the direction you want apparently. But exactly that, make sure it's what you want. Too often people will build around what they think "will work", when RPing/playing simply what you set out to do is loads more fun. So my overall suggestion is consider your PC's background, consider what you want out of it, consider what gameplay you like, and give us a little more insight.

Otherwise, people will keep saying shoddy sorc23/x/x builds, and I'll cry myself to sleep, because it could have been a spellsword at that point!

Very_Svensk wrote:

And the two classes you want are Cleric + Rogue?
Can't satisfy for a Cleric/Monk perhaps. It's a little cheddar of course.

Yep Rogue and Cleric. A cleric of Gaknulak that can't sneak, make, and set traps just doesn't make sense.

I'll probably go with 17 Cleic/13 Rogue.

It's in the PC's nature to want to learn tricks like HiPS. He's a cocky CN adventurer/mercenary who sits in the back and shoots his longbow at people ^^'. I don't want an epic caster. Rather, I think he should have 6 or so SD levels, and then maybe 12 sorc 12 rogue or 9 sorc 15 rogue, or 7 sorc 17 rogue.

Does anyone know what sorc and rogue levels you get bonus feats at?

i'm gunna go out on a limb and say cornersneak because level 9 spells put everything except hips out of usefulness range. buut, it is a nice idea and it could work. as for bonus feats, nwn wiki has the rogue part pretty well documented...but I would personally build the thing just to check.

Glyph wrote:

i'm gunna go out on a limb and say cornersneak because level 9 spells put everything except hips out of usefulness range. buut, it is a nice idea and it could work. as for bonus feats, nwn wiki has the rogue part pretty well documented...but I would personally build the thing just to check.

Could invest in Imp.Knockdown, sadly it'll be weird for a Kobold... But if you aim for epic dodge youre going to have AB in the High 50's.

20Base+20Spells+14/15 modifier + 3EWF = 40+14=54+3=57/58. Small size +1 = 58/59

Chizbo1 wrote:

Does anyone know what sorc and rogue levels you get bonus feats at?

RTFW.

Alright so I have a new character concept. Backstory and all that is pretty much set, and what I am aiming for is a Sharessan cleric. I have been spending some time today looking further into a build, as I have no idea beyond the initial cleric levels, and I think I have found something that works for the concept: Female Mulan, CG, Cleric 21/Monk 9

I was thinking of the stats (after Mulan modifiers):
STR 11
DEX 10
CON 8
WIS 13 (20) <-- To provide bonus spells and to display her growing wisdom as she progresses (ie more than just a pretty face)
INT 12 <-- She's supposed to be intelligent, and I think this is fairly enough
CHA 18 <-- Almost a requirement, though 17 would be acceptable as well I think

I do believe that I have read somewhere that the cleric/monk sort of build is kinda cheesy, and for that I apologize. She is actually not supposed to be combat-focused, more of the buffer and healer sort of cleric. If the above classes are what she will be in the end, then she would be mostly unarmed in combat, though a quarterstaff is likely as well, and she would likely be taking to light or medium armor as opposed to plate (leather, for her, seems fitting, though I can work with medium as well). Also, cleric domains would be Travel and Trickery.

I will be giving her a few skills that make sense for her. Concentration/Discipline, though I'm unsure on the latter; Heal, because even being a cleric she would still enjoy the sensation of tending to the wounded with her own hands; Lore, again a little iffy though I believe it makes sense given she is supposed to be a more knowledgeable character; and Tumble, to both simulate agility and for obvious reasons.

That's... about it, I think. A mostly RP-centric character with some combat ability. A lover not a fighter, unless she has to be.

What I am wondering, and have tried to look for but haven't found in the thread yet. is the pertinent cleric feats to take. Maximise is one, I'm sure, and I believe Extend. I am also considering some sort of spell focus (one or two). But I would like to know the usual things a cleric would need. Beyond those I am going to try and do as fitting as possible for her.

My other issue: Monk yes/no?
I picked it because I envisioned her as a unarmed or quarterstaff wielding combatant, mostly defensive, and also because I think it meshes well with her background and the life she has been leading up until appearing on the coasts of Amia. I am open to a different class, or perhaps an additional class as well. I'd be happy stopping at 3 Monk, just because I would like at least the first three levels to signify her time before Amia and the time she was attaining her divine powers from Sharess.
I am about 90%+ sure that I will not take any rogue levels for her. Bard is a posibility as well. Ranger is a potential as well, though that might be too combat focused. Fighter, definitely not, and the same for Paladin/Barbarian/Druid.

Another thing: I absolutely refuse to play this character if she ends up being cheesy. I have the concept, I just lack the build that will help make sense mechanically.

For 21 Cleirc you should forfeit any spell focus. It's actually only useful at 23+ Cleric.
You're looking at a Melee based cleric, Probably one with A base WIS of 20, and no more. The rest goes into STR or DEX.

I think it sounds cool that you'll run around with a quarterstaff honestly.

Edit - isn't sharess a chaotic god?

Sharess is a chaotic god.

Mulan? Monk?

You might be better of as a Cleric of Isis.

No, not looking fro a melee build... hence why I said she is not a fighter. I think, though, I confused things a bit, so I'll just clarify with:

Her melee skills are backup. She is primarily a healer and buffer. She shouldn't get into combat unless she absolutely has to. I won't give her many combat orientated feats, if I can help it, and so she's gonna be focusing on casting in combat situations to help her party/friends/etc. She is not non-confrontational, she avoids fighting if need be, but she will not hesitate to protect people.

And yeah, I figure the quarterstaff was about as best you can get for not wanting to be in combat lol

Some other things I thought of:

1) There is a chance that she can be Mulan or Drow, I forgot to add that in. The concept I have in mind actually fits either race, it's just something I need to decide soon. What I am looking for primarily is feat selection advice.

2) As an added nudge towards being a defensive type, I was thinking of perhaps switching CHA to 17 to provide points for 14 INT so she can have Expertise and Imp Expertise as well. I know they cannot be used while casting, but it would greatly help if she gets into actual combat to keep her safe until others can reach her.

More to follow as I think and get input.
Much thanks ahead of time!

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Mulan? Monk?

You might be better of as a Cleric of Isis.

Missed this as I posted.

Given that she's going to be a level 21 cleric over everything else, Mulan makes complete sense (favored class). Plus, if I am not mistaken, Sharess is known as Bast in that area of Toril and so there's an added benefit there.

Again... Sharess is a chaotic goddess. Monk = lawful. It doesn't work. But yes, if you wish to make a Mulan, it'd be fine as a Sharessian... but bear in mind there's subtle differences in the way Mulhorandi treat Bast compared to others treat Sharess.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Again... Sharess is a chaotic goddess. Monk = lawful. It doesn't work. But yes, if you wish to make a Mulan, it'd be fine as a Sharessian... but bear in mind there's subtle differences in the way Mulhorandi treat Bast compared to others treat Sharess.

You know.... I knew there was a reason that was being pointed out... sheesh *facepalms*

Well then! I shall have to figure something else out. Bard, perhaps, makes the best sense I think. Doesn't change it too much, really.

Also as Bast there are actually major differences in the worship of that aspect. I suggest you look really hard into Mulhorandi/Mulan lore before actually creating the cleric because Cultists of Bast aren't respected by the majority of people anywhere around the Alambar sea. Bast is actually held up by the other Mulhorandi deities as the failure and weakness of character.

I will also point out that you do not take a subrace because of the favoured class you take it because you are going to roleplay the race.

Buffer/Caster/Healer/Melee Cleric

27 Cleric 2 Rogue/Bard 1 Purple Dragon Knight!

Interesting build!

Starting Abilities:
14 Str (6)
8 Dex -> 7 after subrace subtraction
12 Con (4)
14 Int (6)
15 Wisdom -> 16 Wisdom after subrace (8)
14 Cha (6)

Raises via level-ups to

19 Wisdom
18 Cha

Feats:
Power Attack, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Extend Spell, Maximise Spell, Mounted Combat, Blindfight, Skill Focus Heal.

Epic:
Epic Fort, Epic Spell: Mummy Dust, Epic Spell: Greater Ruin, Epic Heal

Epic Cleric:
Great Wisdom, Armor Skin

Don't know if this was what you were after?

I'm going to make a character who likes to play with traps...and they always confuse me, what with the variable DC's for setting, disarming, recovering, etc. It APPEARS that if I plan on using disable out of combat (for the 'take 20' rule), I could RECOVER most traps with 25 skill points (giving a 45 roll total, or 10 higher than the typical 35 DC).

Is this a correct assumption, or do I need a way higher skill level on Amia?

MoshingChris wrote:

I will also point out that you do not take a subrace because of the favoured class you take it because you are going to roleplay the race.

I know! Forgive me if that is how it came off, as it's not. Initially I wanted her to be the Mulan subrace, due to the Bast/Sharess thing, and so it was simply awesome luck that the favored class was the cleric as well.

MoshingChris wrote:

Also as Bast there are actually major differences in the worship of that aspect. I suggest you look really hard into Mulhorandi/Mulan lore before actually creating the cleric because Cultists of Bast aren't respected by the majority of people anywhere around the Alambar sea. Bast is actually held up by the other Mulhorandi deities as the failure and weakness of character.

This I need to look into. I had not read it before.

However, I do not see it affecting her current life very much. I did not initially envision her as becoming a follower of Sharess until after a certain point in her life (though prior to coming to Amia), which is another reason she is initially not a cleric at creation.

It's good advice, though, and could be quite useful for her background and temperament, and so I will definitely look into it!

MoshingChris wrote:

Build!

First off, thanks that is quite helpful.
Secondly, Can't do CG PDK unfortunately lol

I think, though, that it might be a little too combat orientated. Maybe not, I'm thinking it over still.
Greater Ruin might be too offensive, perhaps, but that is something I can at least decide later in the build and so it will be easily changeable. EMD, however, works well for summoning aid. Divine Shield, yes. Divine Might, maybe. Blindfight was taken as well! Heal focuses were something I was going after as well, so good. Think that list you gave is an awesome baseline for her so far. I'll tweak and see what I come up with.

7 DEX though, ouch. Wouldn't that make someone just a shy above being able to do most things? Or does the 8 baseline only count for intelligence ratings? Good point on the CHA, though, cause for some reason my initial reaction is to jump a stat high. Makes so much more sense (mechanically and IC) to slowly raise something. Another reason this thread rocks: Keeps my head on straight sometimes haha

Naivatkal wrote:

7 DEX though, ouch. Wouldn't that make someone just a shy above being able to do most things?

Yes... but it doesn't seem to stop all those Mulan clerics we have...

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

7 DEX though, ouch. Wouldn't that make someone just a shy above being able to do most things?

Yes... but it doesn't seem to stop all those Mulan clerics we have...

Hmmmm, zing? lol

Yeah, but from a dirty powerbuilder's perspective, you can max a cat's grace to get from 7 to 12.... +1 DEX, the largest bonus you can have with full plate.

I role-play my seven dexterity on my Mulan. I also roleplay my Mulan. Slow moving force.

Unlike those filthy Tuigan Blackguards.

Do CoT levels count towards divine Might/Shield caps?

pboyD wrote:

Do CoT levels count towards divine Might/Shield caps?

Cleric / Paladin / Blackguard

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&p=934741#p934741 < - Source

For an SD Stealther-type-thing.
KD or Blindfight? Cannot have both.

Why?

Very_Svensk wrote:

pboyD wrote:

Do CoT levels count towards divine Might/Shield caps?

Cleric / Paladin / Blackguard

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&p=934741#p934741 < - Source

I checked that link before posting, and it's really obscure as to what exactly is a "divine class". Is there anything that describes this change at length?

jimbono1 wrote:

For an SD Stealther-type-thing.
KD or Blindfight? Cannot have both.

Why?

Blindfight. So you can fight better in Darkness, or someone with concealment.

Why? Because there are multiple KD-giving items in game and the fact that you're a stealther, it's unlikely that you'll be relying upon it but to KD things that are easy to KD anyway.

Sneaky type without Blindfight is like a caster without Extend. Always try to fit it in there.

MoshingChris wrote:

I role-play my seven dexterity on my Mulan. I also roleplay my Mulan. Slow moving force.

Unlike those filthy Tuigan Blackguards.

Crazy not to roleplay the Tuigan. All those horse penis jokes *and* sounding like Borat. Madness!

ainjyll wrote:

Yeah, but from a dirty powerbuilder's perspective, you can max a cat's grace to get from 7 to 12.... +1 DEX, the largest bonus you can have with full plate.

Haha, true

MoshingChris wrote:

I role-play my seven dexterity on my Mulan. I also roleplay my Mulan. Slow moving force.

Unlike those filthy Tuigan Blackguards.

My Tuigan's not a blackguard

Still, though, she's going to be a bit more dexterous, so an 8 seems good. Eights are the 'average person', right? I've been told that before by someone in regards to DnD in general.

Also, in regards to cleric's and Spell Focuses:

Useful for a level 27 cleric? Yes?
Or is it really more of a mage sort of thing?

I have a few builds that I'd like to streamline, if I can get any help with any of them, it would be greatly appreciated.

1. Female Drow Monk/Assassin/Shadow Dancer, uses shurikens
1st 2 levels already taken.
str 10
dex 18
con 12
int 18
wis 10
cha 12
lvl 2 monk with probably dodge.
This one is for my girlfriend who knows nothing of builds and very little of mechanics, but loves the game due to the roleplay. I was thinking 6 SD, 6 Monk, 18 Assassin, or 6SD/8Monk/16A. any ideas? She isn't too worried about being powerful, but might as well make it as potent as it can be and still fit the RP.

2. Kobold Rogue/SD/(fighter?/Assassin?), uses crossbow and traps, and hopefully more heavy on the traps if it is worth it.
str 8
dex 18
con 10
int 16
wis 10
cha 10
This one is for me when I go to play with the above drow character, and I swear our character choice is completely unrelated to our RL life. :wink:

I'm probably aiming to go for almost exclusively Rogue, maybe 4-5 fighter for the weapon specs and +1 attacks, and 6SD for the HiPS which would be super useful for setting traps in combat.

Naivatkal wrote:

Also, in regards to cleric's and Spell Focuses:

Useful for a level 27 cleric? Yes?
Or is it really more of a mage sort of thing?

It's a caster thing. If you go for high wisdom and caster ruote, go for focuses.

Ulir wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

Also, in regards to cleric's and Spell Focuses:

Useful for a level 27 cleric? Yes?
Or is it really more of a mage sort of thing?

It's a caster thing. If you go for high wisdom and caster ruote, go for focuses.

Gotcha. Is 20 WIS high, or are we talking 25+?

Naivatkal wrote:

Still, though, she's going to be a bit more dexterous, so an 8 seems good. Eights are the 'average person', right? I've been told that before by someone in regards to DnD in general.

I don't know where that came from originally because they were completely and utterly wrong. Ten is the 'average person', hence why there are no penalties to it, or bonuses. If eight was the 'average person', then bear in mind an 8 INT means you can't speak properly.

Naivatkal wrote:

Ulir wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

Also, in regards to cleric's and Spell Focuses:

Useful for a level 27 cleric? Yes?
Or is it really more of a mage sort of thing?

It's a caster thing. If you go for high wisdom and caster ruote, go for focuses.

Gotcha. Is 20 WIS high, or are we talking 25+?

with caster route you're just going to put every point in level ups to wisdom, and +12 wisdom gear ASAP

Naivatkal wrote:

Gotcha. Is 20 WIS high, or are we talking 25+?

We are talking 38-40 WIS in the end.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

Still, though, she's going to be a bit more dexterous, so an 8 seems good. Eights are the 'average person', right? I've been told that before by someone in regards to DnD in general.

I don't know where that came from originally because they were completely and utterly wrong. Ten is the 'average person', hence why there are no penalties to it, or bonuses. If eight was the 'average person', then bear in mind an 8 INT means you can't speak properly.

Pfft I thought 6 was the level where you were flat out dumb haha. I knew that didn't sound right, to be honest.

TeroSNS wrote:

with caster route you're just going to put every point in level ups to wisdom, and +12 wisdom gear ASAP

Alrighty, makes sense, thanks

*goes to tweak some more*

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