*Note that this is a little long, but I implore you to read it so I can get as many opinions as possible on this issue.

Before I begin, I wish to say that I am opening up this topic for any and all opinions on the discussion of Bahamut Factions. Please keep any flames you may have in the fireplace. This is meant to be an open-minded discussion for anyone who has an opinion on the rapid increase in Bahamut-stuff going on as of late. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, no matter what it is. Please be respectful in your responses.

Recently, it would seem there has been a lot of arguing in and out of character pvp and players vs DMs. I've noticed a lot of he-said she-saids and a ton of misinterpretations/misunderstandings as well. I'm not looking for a fight, I'm looking to have fun (the reason, I suspect, a strong majority of players rp on Amia) and my character was inclined to join one of the Bahamut factions.

Now, I know of three factions:

~Platinum Guard
~Platinum Knights
~Platinum Sentinels

Stefano is in charge of the Platinum Guard dedicated to Bahamut. There are only, to my knowledge, two members in this group... It's just a couple dudes savin' the day, lol X3 I don't want to be a third wheel is all. Plus, as much as I relish the amount of freedom they have, I don't want to be (pretty much) stationed inside the Shawdowflame establishment, because it's just that—The Shadowflame manor, it's got nothing to do with the group and nothing to do with Bahamut... so that pretty much ruled that one out when the time came to make my decision.

As far as the Knights go, I, personally, am not attracted to a knighthood organization because I feel it gives an opportunity for corruption, which isn't to say that the Platinum Knights are corrupted, simply to say that ranks open up negative cans-of-worms sometimes. The Platinum Knights had (until about two months ago RL time) seemed pretty devoid of members, aside from Kraniumbrud (Though I doubt that's his character name) (if anyone else was an active member in the six months prior to February 2011, please tell me). Anyway, as I said before, although my character is a Fighter, I don't want to join a knighthood.

The Sentinels are very similar to the Guards but (according to sources) are an extremely new faction that just sort of appeared one day under the leadership of Saul. I made the choice to join the Sentinels because there were a lot of fun characters (five before I joined) and fun rp going on, but as chance would have it there is an ooc war occuring regarding the authentication of the Sentinels.

It appears I am stuck in the crossfire. The easiest thing would be to wash my hands of the situation, but I would like to retain my place within the Sentinels, for I very much enjoy being part of the faction. The problem becomes why are people so unwilling to accept a newer faction? What is so bad about another option for Bahamut following characters? It makes it really hard to have a good time in a fun rp when you're having to constantly defend yourself from nasty slander.

The Sentinels were the correct choice for my character(perhaps not for someone else's), but I don't want them to be disbanded over something silly.

I would absolutely LOVE to hear what anyone else outside (or even inside if you feel inclined to do so) has to say about this. Maybe once all of this gets resolved a few new Bahamut-loving characters would like to join these three factions?

Kazunae

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"The North Wind welcomes all who bow before his greatness..."

I am Kazunae.
I serve Bahamut.

You make a topic to discuss the "legitimacy" of someone's or some groups RP and IC actions...

Is there any good that will come of this? Handle your stuff with whomever, PM a DM, but this is certainly not the way to get anything accomplished.

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I think that merging them could be good, and have the faction split off a little into sub factions, much like the red wizards once were (Red wizards, Burning Braziers, Thayan Knights, Mercs) that way each faction can still have its own niche, but all work together towards a common goal.

Merging always works in the long run. There's way to many factions populating the server as of late, at least putting them under the same roof could reduce the en masse of alts that populate our server.

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
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Instead of attempting to validate/invalidate eachother I strongly urge all involved to read up on Bahamut and the lore surrounding his followers that is clearly outlined in Races of the Dragon. You will quickly see that this OOC nonsense should likely remain OOC as Bahamut's followers are -encouraged- to work together against Tiamat regardless of Race, Origin, or Class (iirc: must be non-evil and that leaves a heaping ton of wiggleroom for all sorts of variety in classes, etc.). There is no need to dominate or submit to an already existing faction when from what I have read you are trying to lead a faction out in the far end of Faerun from where Amia is (Nes'ek being way the hex east geographically speaking).

When a threat arises, figure out a way to work together. You all have the same goals in mind so it shouldn't be hard.

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

Any faction PCs want to RP is legitimate. You dont have to have others tell you whether or not you are part of something real. If people are RPing it, its most likely real. Now, that doesn't mean Bahamut notices the Sentinels (Thats up to DMs), or that the sentinels have real influence (Once again, DMs say), or even that you're on the forum, but its there, and its a group that people are participating in. Go hog wild.

In my experience, there are very few 'church' factions that are really successful and influential, beyond the church of Bane and the Eternal Order. But its up to yall to make the faction, not for others to say if its legitimate or not. Just avoid being the 'flavor of the month.'

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Nysor Shorshanis: A squirrel in his own right
Solrend Inignus: The Kossuthian cleric who is "hot, but not in that way"
Adin Twitterleaf: Crazy elven trickster.
Isaac Kley: Young gimp of a sorcerer.

I don't think merging is a bad idea. If they could all three merge and be a single group where the subfactions are definitely divided and no subfaction is dominant in the sense that it's governing the other two, then it could be great.

All three groups want the DM's official say that Bahamut recognizes them as being separate factions, though, and I think that's where the dispute is.

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"The North Wind welcomes all who bow before his greatness..."

I am Kazunae.
I serve Bahamut.

just my two cents...

I think there legit but i would (as a player) like to see more rp that shows them as a group rather then a bunch of random people under the same banner. especially since behamut's dogma places such importance on order.

I, as the only remaining of the first platinium knights, I have officially given up on the bahamutians groups and some notion of unity, its a mess to say the least, and its turned into a brutal hearsay war that has done nothing but split the faction apart, to say that im dissapointed in bahamutians in general is a mild understatement...i made mistake and i know it, but damm...the platinium guard and sentinels need to grow up fast.

How about you turn up before Imperator icly and let him settle it..both groups..and im pretty sure i can tell you what he will say..stop the infighting now..

all groups are legimate as long as they dont put dips on a name..platinium knights are taken as they are a very very old factions

the platinium sentinels and the platinium guards are two different things, you need to back off eachothers backs and start doing bahamuts work instead of bickering over who came up with the name first..none of you have the same name and none of you have the right to the legacy of the platinium knights.

PS. the platinium knights are a completely independent knighthood in kohlingen, but in matters of kohlingen Lord yaston has command as first knight, something supported by imperator a holy being of bahamut.

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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker

I told Stefan, and I told Yashan this.

All of you need to get over yourselves and stop this ridiculous bickering over who is "Real" and who is "authentic". All of your little Bahamut crew needs to do this.

I am removing the poll, it is nothing but a biased appeal to public opinion. This entire topic is bad.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I want screenshots of this OOC bickering.

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IMO, do what you wish. It's all IC and you shouldn't let the OOC whining get to you. The other Bahamutian factions that doesn't have any members should (i feel anyways) die off as it's testament to their skills at running/managing/generating interest for a faction.

There shouldn't be any "I made a Tormite faction first therefore all Tormites have to OOCly join me" nonsense.

A natural process where a bad/ non active leader dies off is ideal and when an existing faction has zero members? That's a relatively good indicator.

Everything should just remain IC. This happens in RL too btw. Where churches compete for members. The one with the best environment thrives. It's an organic process and no silly OOC intervention should occur.

So do I. The screenshots that I have asked for about this entire fiasco since the day you showed up on Amia, and have yet to recieve. That was months ago now.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

If you are having fun playing in a group, play. We're here to have fun, not to suit others' needs. It's great if people like us, sometimes they don't, and that's just tough shit on them. They don't have to like you as a player, nor do you have to like them, and none of that should influence the IC. (I say /should/.)


There is a simple way to stop the "OOC gripe", whether it's real or not. (I'm not trying to discredit anyone who feels bullied or targeted OOC, it's just that I'm a player, not a DM, so I'm just handing out free thoughts.)
Don't /you/ continue any OOC. Don't support it, don't encourage it, don't embrace it. When our friends do it, it's hard to say "Man, shut up and play". But ending the OOC is just as much your responsibility as anyone else's, even if you did not cause it. You can't force anyone else to, but you /can/ lead by example.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

There are some Bahamut followers who aren't associated with any of these! Just look!

There should never be OOC strife about multiple factions working the same thing, it is an IC situation that can happen and how it is approached is up to how your character would act, not you the player.

This seems to be similiar in a way to what happened in drowtown, don't let the OOC permeate the IC otherwise it just makes things suck.

EDIT: So yeah, I'm seconding Bob here.

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First, don't just assume that because you told Stefan and Yashan something, that I would know about whatever it was you said (in this case, apparently, to "get over ourselves"). Second, you have no right to be rude to me like that when I have done nothing to you. As I stated in my post, I joined Amia looking for fun, created a Bahamut-worshipping character and decided to join a faction. I did not realize I was walking into a warzone in doing this. I joined the Sentinels last week, pardon me for not knowing about things that occured months ago. That particular discussion is between yourself, Yashan, and Stefan, leave me out of it. I don't appreciate being talked to like I've commited some cyber-crime by joining a faction dedicated to my character's deity.

There is nothing wrong with sharing opinions between PCs in a light conversation, right? Please help me to understand what is "bad" about this post, exactly? Everyone seemed to be getting along fine.

Now, if we can have a discussion without DMs trying to peck my eyes out, I think you will find I am a very amicable person. I will attempt to get you the screenshots, but as I said before I am stuck in the crossfire, not part of the fight. If you wish to continue a conversation with me, then please PM me.

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"The North Wind welcomes all who bow before his greatness..."

I am Kazunae.
I serve Bahamut.

ITT:

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Personally I have no ties to any of these factions, or even knew about these three factions, but have had similar issues in the past like this. It is in all honestly an ic issue, that can and should be handled icly in my view. All the factions have a general goal, doing your gods work. I have a view blunt suggestions to solve the whole occ issue.

1. Combine groups with three coleaders running diffrent branchs.

2. Your knights or similar to knights, your pride and blah blah is being challenged challenge for leadership of the groups.

3. Hire a killer an remove the other faction because they are corrupt or some other ic reason.

4. Stay seprate, but allies working with a common goul, like I don't know remove all evil dragon kin, half dragon kin, evil dragon disciples from amia. Though each faction split amia up such as brog goes to faction a while main island of amia goes to faction b.... ect.


Just my two cents... just get the vibe people are trying to handle this more occly than icly and missing amazing ic rp.

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Lieutenant Belalad Feiwallyan

((Please take note if you PM me and you are ignored resend to me in 1-3days, it is likely due to not realizing I got mail))

Handle it in game is my suggestion. If your character feels like he should approach the other two groups, then do so. Likely one or two of these groups will die sooner or later and will fuse with one another in the longrun anyway. For such a specialized faith, I doubt it has a big chance to hold 2 factions, and the Platinum Knights are pretty much dead. I do not count one person as a faction.

Nothing's cooler than internal conflict within a faith, IMO. Quarreling Ilmatari, competing Hoarites, arguing Oghmanytes. It's exciting. But it needs to be IC and lead to fruitful conflcit rather than barren segregation and isolation.

Best way for this to happen is to have a temple, shrine or other holy place where you're forced to interact even if you'd rather not, I reckon.

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I, at least, was not attempting to peck your eyes out. If I had some understanding of the OOC bickering I could have perhaps offered an amicable solution to the situation.

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I was not a member but I was there and helped in the foundation of that faction as a leader of the TKs.

The platinum knights were formed at the beginning of 2009, I think January. It was created by Sovann Is'def who was the leader of the Defenders on that time. It was not like a strict knightly order, it did not even have ranking system or anything.
After Sovann left and the PKs were reformed under a golden kin, Katliean Sylgerand(Yaston's deceased wife) and later a golden kin paladin, whose name was Ro Renson. After Ro left the island the members slowly disappeared and the faction was there without members.

Around the beginning of the year when Kraniumbrud returned and other Bahamut followers appeared in Kohl, I told them that there is a faction which is officially approved and everything is fine with it. It just needs members.
It was not determined that it should be a knighthood, however, some people assumed that. The name came from the official Forgotten Realms lore, this is why Sovann decided that.
I also doubt that the faction has corrupt members atm...not to mention that the current 2 members are not even active. I do not think that you should say something like that without knowing anything about the faction.

I do not think that it is a matter of approval or disapproval on new factions. People simply did not understand that if there were Bahamutian factions already, then why did you form new factions (and exact similar ones) if you can simply join to the already existing one and form it how you wish to make it look like?
It is you who can form the actual faction as a faction member.

My point is that you all should join together IG and decide what do you wish to do, I can even help you arrange something IG.

I don't think the OP is saying anyone is corrupted. Its just his IC or OOC interpretation of knighthood in general and his reason for not joining it and the other faction instead.

That said. I can see why one would form a faction under a different banner.
It's a clean slate and a fresh start. There are no past obligations and more importantly - no inactive past members or leaders coming in to swing their weight around and make demands when they see a healthy faction.

Again, I'm of the opinion to let things go naturally. In this instance for example, if the PK is dead, its dead. Whatever the reason, it makes for interesting history. So long as people just roll with everything IC. I fail to see the need for OOC demanding of factions to be combined etc.
If anything, I would think the weaker/less active faction should be assimilated by the healthier one.

I knew that, and I want you to know I appreciate that very much. I will make an effort to get screenshots if possible, but usually I stay clear of the arguing. From what the other DM said, it seems Yashan and Stefan are the ones the drama is revolving around. They might be the better ones to ask for screenshots... however, it seems that they were asked for them months ago and neither of them followed through with it. So, I don't know how this will end up being resolved in the end.

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"The North Wind welcomes all who bow before his greatness..."

I am Kazunae.
I serve Bahamut.

I asked them and a great number of other people who approached me regarding various issues for screenshots and got none. So my attitude towards the whole thing these days is "prove it or go away", because I wasted a lot of time with he said she said back then, and I'm not going around the merry go round again with it, is all.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Though I don't think anyone who may/may not be in the PK right now would do that, Bob formed my thoughts into words. Sorry if the way I said that came across the wrong way, Lutra. It's cool to know you were there when the Platinum Knights were established. Thank you for the offer of helping to arrange something, I will discuss it with the other Sentinels. My only fear is that I will be leading people who don't really know what's going on right into the middle of a huge verbal assult. Surely you understand my concern with that? But, as I said, I will discuss it with them. If their response is no, however, then I will have to respect their wishes and politely decline.

Who are the current 2 inactive members of the Platinum Knights? I would like to add their names to the original post

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"The North Wind welcomes all who bow before his greatness..."

I am Kazunae.
I serve Bahamut.

It's very inspiring to see how much you care about solving the OOC conflict (I myself can be the same way), but I can reassure you as another player who knows this particular issue well that sometimes it's easier to just let them get over it and this is one of those times. You can only be a help so long as help is wanted.

Secondly, I think you're searching for IC information OOCly, Kazunae. I'd encourage you to find all these people and the IC version of the conflicts out ICly. There's no need for it to be more of an OOC thing than it has already been. Of course, if the whole issue does escalate into more OOC drama (as it's obvious you're worried about, and with good reason), you can deal with all the OOC shit then. Right? You could be worrying about it all now for nothing. Maybe it will be easy, maybe it will be hard... maybe it's just IC, and the OOC is gone.

People can change... especially if you smack 'em in the head a few times.

Which is understandable. Hopefully, with a little luck, a resolution might be within sight. If you haven't already, you should read a few of the opinions here. Some people have made very enlightening suggestions as to what might be done IC. It makes me very optimistic, perhaps it might help to ease your frustration some?

Although (and I believe I said it in response to something someone else said) I think the biggest dispute between the factions is over "authentication" (for a—probably stupid—reason that's unknown to me).

Now, I know you have said you are very tired of hearing about this, but I won't mention anything on this matter again if you ask me not to. (Some people have even brought this up) It seems as though the Platinum Knights are a dead faction. I feel like the PK are being seen as Bahamut's only recognized faction, but if the faction is dead then (theoretically) it no longer exists to be recognized by Bahamut, save for in the past. If the issue can be settled within the rp between the PS and the PG, perhaps we can arrange to have one of the two new groups recognized by Bahamut? Just food for thought.

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"The North Wind welcomes all who bow before his greatness..."

I am Kazunae.
I serve Bahamut.

You're all so fixated on being "Recognized" that you're missing te forest for the trees. I said as much in my first post.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I have a couple things I would like to say:

1. Thank you for the compliment, I do strive to be inspirational. This just made my day

2. You are right, I can only help so long as help is wanted... but I'm willing to try anyway.

3. Actually, I'm looking for ooc opinions/suggestions ooc. I want to hear what other people are thinking and take that into consideration. It's all ready helped me a lot in having the opportunity to read some thoughts on the matter and I'm beginning to feel an IC resolution might be possible.

4. Why put off 'til tomorrow what you can do today? Waiting for the ooc to escalate any further seems illogical if I can end it before it gets too much worse. If I worry about it now, then I won't have to worry about it later

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"The North Wind welcomes all who bow before his greatness..."

I am Kazunae.
I serve Bahamut.

Don't say "you're all", I can at least speak for the Sentinels in saying most of the characters hardly have any idea what's going on. To me, it's more about resolving this thing between the two factions and, as I am sure you have ascertained from discussions with the guys involved (even from what you just said) this looks like it is going to be the only way to appease them. But that's what this topic is open for, discussion, suggestions, and opinions on other options available. I am hoping to get an idea by feeding off the ideas of others, lol.

It shouldn't matter who was there first, what should matter is how the characters are representing Bahamut and the things he stands for. One of which is order, something that I am trying very hard to find a way of reinstating, because quite frankly the whole thing is a large mess.

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"The North Wind welcomes all who bow before his greatness..."

I am Kazunae.
I serve Bahamut.

Of course I understand and I did not mean to call a meeting which is about ic or ooc verbal assaults. I believe that a standard IC discussion can handle it, since it would be very harsh to call eachother false or pretender followers of Bahamut IG.

No need to apologize regarding the PKs I just merely wanted to explain why it was called platinum knights. The platinum sentinel name is very creative in my opinion, however, we were not that creative in the past

I've sent you a PM regarding the OOC conflict.

The mentioned PKs are:
Lhataranah - celestial priestess of Bahamut
The other member is a planar dragonkin and his name was very draconic. (In other words: too complicated for me to remember )

Just do what Bahamutians do in general. Follow the dogma of your god and it will make you recognized, however, Djedet is not a good place to start such a thing.

Nobody said that the PKs are the only recognized Bahamutian faction, it is not necessary that the PKs of Kohlingen should be "the Bahamutian faction". Merge the factions, make something new! but show initiative for that ICly! I saw that you made an IC poster regarding that, which is a good start.

Well, we gave you our OOC opinions/suggestions. Stop the OOC and get back to the IC unless the OOC overwhelms it so completely that you can't ignore it. That's my advice, and that's all my advice is going to be. And your fourth point is pretty illogical. You have no idea if the OOC is going to escalate further-- it might dwindle. Right now, you are being completely pessimistic and believing that the situation can only get worse without your help. That's not true. It could get better. I suggest waiting and seeing... and if it comes to that, worry about it later. Because you're still going to have to worry about it later, if it comes to it, whether or not you worry about it now. I promise.

Don't worry about recognition, IC or OOC. Have -fun- and stay to the dogma. People, players and characters alike, go where the fun is. Do it IC, and have fun. IC and OOC fun. If you can do that, and ignore ooc grief, from others, and not start it -yourself-, people will come.

If they don't? Who cares. You're having fun.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

Yeah Stefan has been busy irl to play and hasn't had any drama issues with anyone in a long while... I'd like it not to have pointless lies spread about me please.

Thanks.

By the way it was talking like that and me asking people to know facts before talking bad about me that was the drama before.

And I'll gladly take peoples PM's to my face since I've been ic and oocily trying to fix lies spread about me for months and haven't done anything wrong. You want me to quit so bad. grow a pair and attack me to my face. Cause dropping my name in public when its wrong is trolling.

And Stefan isn't with Yashan in his group so if Yashan's causing issue's don't blame me I'm in my own thing kinda soloing while juggling school.

Oh and btw now theres drama involing me but you started it.

P.S. my group has no name... And was thinking about joining the PK's after some rp with a silverkin of Kohlingen to help out there.

Prove it or go away, re: harassment claims.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I am in the process of solving the issues between the factions ic. I hope to close/delete this post within the next week or so, assuming the meetings I have scheduled go well

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"The North Wind welcomes all who bow before his greatness..."

I am Kazunae.
I serve Bahamut.