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Hi, was wondering if someone (or the one who changed tenser's) could tell me exactly how it works here on amia?

Does it still add two attacks per round?

Does it still add 4 natural armor (which is really dodge bonus and therefore stacks)?

Think the whoever did this with the spell did a great job. However there is one feature that bothers me a bit, perhpas I just do not know how to use it properly. If you use a tenser on amia, the spellcaster is stuck in it for the duration, which can be up to 3 minutes for high lvl casters. So I am wondering, is there a way to dispell it/cancel it? In default mode all polymorph spells can be cancelled by the caster without debuffing anything else, is this possible?

If not, maybe it should be added to it, it would perfect it on this server imho. Being stuck in it for a mage for 3 minutes and thus barred from yer spells can be leathal and unconvenient in a number of situations. Would be nice to hear from ya all if it is possible to cancel it before the duration runs out and if not whether it should not be that way as the default version. Don´t see any logic behind it being stuck on a caster like that.

Anyways, feel free to post

Jakob1357.

Imo, Both GS and Tensers should have an On/OFF Button.

*multiple head-desks*

1d4 STR, DEX, CON
CLd6 Temp HP
CL/2 Bonus AB, capped at +10.
No extra attack.
+10 Discipline
No spells, except for potions during duration

That's what it does.

The on/off was suggested, decided against as being locked out of mage-form was intended as a consequence.

Next time build topic is the place for stuff like this. And as well, let's let this be the end of it, because time it gets brought up, there are threats to neuter it, and it is perfectly balanced as it is.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Imo, Both GS and Tensers should have an On/OFF Button.

Ahahah

No.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Imo, Both GS and Tensers should have an On/OFF Button.

GS already has one. Counter spell. Intentionally scripted into it aswell.

Why are you slamming your head against the desk, Immolation? Don't you remember the entire Rules & lore section was eaten during the Hack-attack, and that any spell changes was lost by it? Including the update topic

And voila - This thread was created.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Why are you slamming your head against the desk, Immolation? Don't you remember the entire Rules & lore section was eaten during the Hack-attack, and that any spell changes was lost by it? Including the update topic

And voila - This thread was created.

Because people automatically assume that if they have read it, you have read it too.

Ah, A bad case of Internet logic then.

@ Jakob1357 - I can't find the details, But it's somewhere on the forums, Im sure of it. But Dark Immolation is 'probably' correct on the stats.

No, I'm headdesking because the spell in question is rather fine as it is, and every time it's been suggested to change it, there is kvetching about how it's too good because it's related to mages.

I haven't assumed anyone's read anything, it's not under the Spell Changes, so it's a completely valid question to ask what it does. But making suggestions on it is just unwise, especially when one wasn't sure what it even did in the first place. No offence to the poster, but the current spell as been discussed, beaten, and neutered and rebuffed and rinsed and repeated. It's fine.

jimbono1 wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

Why are you slamming your head against the desk, Immolation? Don't you remember the entire Rules & lore section was eaten during the Hack-attack, and that any spell changes was lost by it? Including the update topic

And voila - This thread was created.

Because people automatically assume that if they have read it, you have read it too.

He may have been upset because it wasn't posted in the build help topic?

Edit: ninjijiii.

Quote:

No offence to the poster, but the current spell as been discussed, beaten, and neutered and rebuffed and rinsed and repeated. It's fine.

Not really, but that's because Tenser's as a spell is a flawed concept in the scope of Amia. But again, no surprise from DI on the "make mages better" front...

Thanks for the info

Perhaps I posted in the wrong place, my apology. Seems it's been dabated and settled. No arguments here or further suggestions to those that decide things here.

That being said I am still going to voice my oppinion on the matter and I stress it, it's not for the sake of changing anything. There are two types of criticism, the one meant to build up and the negative type that tears down and is hurtful. This is the former type.

In genaral am all for keeping things as close as default as possilbe. Tenser being no acception. When the ball of "change/nerving" starts rolling you never know where that is going to end or the unforseen consequences of it because those implementing the changes do not always forsee them themselves. I for one would not. Professionals create the game and playtest it over and over. It's a rigorous and tedious process. Amateurs (many quite smart mind ya), change it often on a whim. It all becomes very subjective from that point onward rather than objective as it should be. Feelings, oppionions, and attitudes like "oh I juuuststt lovvee rogues or fighers" and so on come in. This is why I think changes from default need to be weighed very carefully. Those that think mages or spellcasters are overpowered should perhaps think about who really rules the FR. In pnp mages are weaker about ten level's and difficult to play and other classes shine, like the fighter. But then things turn around and mages definetly grow stronger than say fighters. This is default PnP and Nwn. Here is a common misconception: "All classes should be equal". The classes where originally never designed to be equal and in the FR context this fits quite well from a RP point of view. An archmage is feared and for good reason. On the other hand, all the classes are designed to bring something to the table thought, and that they do. Solution to the imbalance, if one -must- have one, is anyone can play anything and anyone can pick any three class within a given char and mix it up any way they see fit.

So when i comes to an on or off button for Tenser or GS for that matter, I completely agree with very svensk here, it is closer to default and being stuck in those spell is annoying and makes no RP sense to me, regardless of wheather it is "balancing" or not.

Just my few cent's, again, no offense.

Jakob1357

TormakSaber wrote:

Not really, but that's because Tenser's as a spell is a flawed concept in the scope of Amia. But again, no surprise from DI on the "make mages better" front...

Tensers! Putting melee sorc/wizzies in the same AB group as melee clerics!

Tenser's is like barb rage on steroids.
Don't know of any other ability that gives such a huge spike of ab in such a short time. Closest is a lvl 20 CoT and even that is only a +9ab boost.

I believe you're forgetting Divine Power. Which even allows casting during the time. Know your stuff.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

No offence to the poster, but the current spell as been discussed, beaten, and neutered and rebuffed and rinsed and repeated. It's fine.

Not really, but that's because Tenser's as a spell is a flawed concept in the scope of Amia. But again, no surprise from DI on the "make mages better" front...

Tormak, there is a whole god-damned thread that is open to discuss my and others position on "making mages better." As well as making other things better in comparison. Maybe you wanna check it out and actually discuss something there, rather than make pot shots at me in every single thread I comment on dealing with mages.

Also, I could have sworn that I said that it didn't need changing, as in not putting in a way to cancel, that would make the spell more powerful.

Divine power is scaled according to one's bab however.
Unlike Tensers that gives a flat ab bonus based on caster levels.
Bar completely gimping your build, you're going to get an avg of +5-6ab off divine power usually.

Thus the comparison with a 21+Barbarian who gets: +6ab and +5dmg along with spell failure and +2temp hp/lvl along with some bonii to saves. Extra goodies with investment of epic feats.

A mage however gets: +10ab, similar penalties, +10 disc, an avg of +3.5 temp hp/lvl(higher then that granted by the barb) and a pseudo Aura of Vitality.

Not even counting the spells or other stuff the mage can bring in, Tenser's is superior to Barbarian Rage really.

I think you need to take a hard look at all the different Rages Barbs have on Amia. And then, take into account that most every melee class is already dipping a UMD class and probably consumes more scrolls than any mage class. viewtopic.php?f=20&p=934661#p934661

Seriously. This is why I made the other topic.

Bob wrote:

Divine power is scaled according to one's bab however.
Unlike Tensers that gives a flat ab bonus based on caster levels.
Bar completely gimping your build, you're going to get an avg of +5-6ab off divine power usually.

Clerics currently get +20 AB from their own buffs, +5 from divine power, +1 from bless, +1 from aid, +1 from prayer, +2 from battletide, +5 from Divine favor, +5 from GMW

Doesn't look like they need help from Tensers..

Wizard/Sorcs get +15 if they are all maxed out as they get +5 from GMW and +10 from Tensers

As for Barb Rages, they give Barbarians the highest self buff AB out of any non cleric/wiz/sorc build out there.

+4 from Weapons(or +5 if they have +5 AB or Ench on their blade), +6 from rage, +2 from scabbard, +3 from barbarian battledrum, +5 from tenser scrolls.

They can also use ferocity attack to NOT gain +6 AB from rage and be stuck at the same AB as your average fighter/WM (ofcourse that is completely negated if you're one of the Barb/WMs out there), and if you're lucky enough to have healpotions on you, you can self buff like the other non spell chars that is forced to use items, drink a haste potion and then charge into battle with 6 attacks per round with your two hander of awesome crits, or 6 attacks with your weapon/shield.

And you have terrifying rage.. The ONLY ABILITY on NWN that sets it's DC after your skill and not 10+abilitymod+level or 10+spellfocuses+abilitymod+spelllevel

I really don't think barbarians are suffering..

Tensers doesn't give wiz/sorcs the same level of AB as a melee cleric or melee char because you're forced to take a large amount of 1/2 BAB levels pre epic and can maximum gain 3 BAB attacks, not 4 like a melee cleric and it cuts you off from your awesome spells.

Clerics currently have the highest all day round AB followed by melee builds with True Strike potions. An average Sorc/Wiz with tensers built for melee can at best hope for the same UNBUFFED AB as a WM or Barb build and that's with Tensers activated and spells completely cut off, without the ability to remove it when needed.

YES tensers is good, NO it doesn't need to be made toggleable. NO I don't think it currently needs a nerf either because melee arcane builds will just fall back on blasting you with spells then truestriking you down with potions like everyone else or their own spell.

Actually, if you looked at the link you provided, you'll realize that the rage I cited gives the highest ab - 6 amongst the others. Thus the comparison with tenser's which provides more ab and goodies.

I didn't want to mention anything else aside from just a comparison between standard barb rage(the flavor of a class) vs tensers, but since you brought up UMD, you are aware that despite the whole array of scrolls one has access to (at a price to boot), they do not quite compare to that of a Mage's buffs? I'm not sure why that was even brought up as UMD isn't even a barb skill.

The point of the post was to simply state the irony of a mage having a better "rage" then that of a Barb. This again - isn't even counting the other stuff wizards get which blow other classes out of the water.

I get the impression you're posting in an attempt to downplay the irony being highlighted due to an irrational fear that the spell would end up being nerfed.
It looks silly however when you imply that the standard barb rage is on par or even better then tensers.

For the record,(not that it matters) I'm in favor of tensers as in theory it allows for more diversity to a class.

Don't forget pallies with UMD, Grave

Dwagin wrote:

Don't forget pallies with UMD, Grave

I keep forgetting them because I never let them smite me

Tenser's transformation

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