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chefwudan
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 Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 1:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL
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Just a general rambling but, IC-wise, would a Shadow Dancer really make all that noise the SJ widget makes while Shadow Jumping? Can it not have the sound removed from the SJ action.. it kind of defeats the purpose of jumping from shadow to shadow as a SD would most likely be as stealth as possible.
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 1:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Who is to say it wouldn't make sound?
_________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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chefwudan
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 1:17 AM |
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Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL
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Heh, I guess I did a poor job of forming a proper question, lol... lemme try this again?
Would/Should the SJ action make an obvious and loud noise when SJing from shadow to shadow... what say you?
Last edited by chefwudan on Thu, Mar 31 2011, 1:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 1:18 AM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Hmmm I just got my widget... I MUST HEAR THIS!!!
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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TheGoddessOfAmazing©
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 1:36 AM |
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Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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I rather like the sound. It's like the whoosh of the air and the shadows moving, and gives it flavor.
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 3:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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I always imagine my SD gulping loudly with an open mouth to make the sound when he Jumps! In my mind it's because if he messes up, he's going to end up inside of something.
_________________
Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 3:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Maryn wrote: I rather like the sound. It's like the whoosh of the air and the shadows moving, and gives it flavor. This is what I was thinking when I gave it that visual, by the way! _________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Glyph
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 6:58 AM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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I personally enjoy the (possibly unintentional) glowing line that appears when you combine it with assassin abilities  as for sound and whatnot, the only problem is you can't really combine it with hips and not get noticed, because it takes you out of hide mode to do the jump. which makes alot of sense cause extradimentional travel shouldn't be easy =)
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TheGoddessOfAmazing©
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 7:12 AM |
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Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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PaladinOfSune wrote: Maryn wrote: I rather like the sound. It's like the whoosh of the air and the shadows moving, and gives it flavor. This is what I was thinking when I gave it that visual, by the way! Perfect!
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Feonir
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 18:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Lookin at folks like a son-of-a-bitch.
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Also it broadcasts to anyone with a hint of LoS that "Player is using items special power" kind of obvious in that regard.
_________________  "I'm going to spend all my money on ale and whores." "Okay roll for whores." "That's 1d4 whores right?"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 19:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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You get to TELEPORT.
Cry more about being noisy.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 20:22 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Feonir wrote: Also it broadcasts to anyone with a hint of LoS that "Player is using items special power" kind of obvious in that regard. At the same time, I'd say that is just something that people should see and NOT metagame. And that goes for any sort of 'player uses' message. I see them and like to be nosy but Tyrus stil has no idea what something is unless he has prior knowledge of it. Course, something like a widget means it is an action or ability that he has to recognize, too. In short: Don't Metagame, People!
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 20:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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 And so it heads in this direction... It is a fine line there on saying that if you are noticed it is suddenly "Zomg! Metagaming!" Let's be honest. A person that has been outside of Cordor has likely seen the ability used and will further associate the sound/appearance with Shadow Jump if they ask any seasoned adventurer "What in the nine did they just do!?" it isn't like Shadow Jump is very 'subtle' and un recognizable. IE: My warlock Eli uses a widget and it doesn't say "Eli Hodgewall uses Eldritch Blast" but if folks recognize it for what it is, it isn't like I go crying over it. It stands out just the same as any other widget ability so I expect folks to know something that is not the expected usual just happened. If a PC has never seen the ability? I suppose you could call them out then, but that usually ends in headaches. Simply screeny/send to DM if you fear your choice of not so subtle ability has given your position away and altered the RP of those being watched.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 20:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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TormakSaber wrote: You get to TELEPORT.
Cry more about being noisy. That.. Shadowjump is one of the most powerful given abilities that's unique to Amia. If it didn't break hips and made no noise, it'd be so stupidly overpowered it's not even funny. It's already overpowered.. especially for us SD's who favor bows and not sneak attacks or melee combat >_> Just take my word for it.
_________________
Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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Gunz
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 21:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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I think it's fine, and I like it too, actually.
From what I remember of SD lore (it's been a while), you're entering a different plane of existence momentarily so you can teleport. I can totally see the teleportation to another plane and back -- in a split second -- as being at least slightly noisy. It gives the class flavor and makes it so it's not cheesy.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 22:14 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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DustSpray101 wrote: :roll: And so it heads in this direction... It is a fine line there on saying that if you are noticed it is suddenly "Zomg! Metagaming!"
Let's be honest. A person that has been outside of Cordor has likely seen the ability used and will further associate the sound/appearance with Shadow Jump if they ask any seasoned adventurer "What in the nine did they just do!?" it isn't like Shadow Jump is very 'subtle' and un recognizable.
IE: My warlock Eli uses a widget and it doesn't say "Eli Hodgewall uses Eldritch Blast" but if folks recognize it for what it is, it isn't like I go crying over it. It stands out just the same as any other widget ability so I expect folks to know something that is not the expected usual just happened.
If a PC has never seen the ability? I suppose you could call them out then, but that usually ends in headaches. Simply screeny/send to DM if you fear your choice of not so subtle ability has given your position away and altered the RP of those being watched. Just so we are clear, I was referring to the text for the widget and not the noise. I have no problem with the noise as I think it makes sense given that you are traveling to another plane. Not once did I say that someone who has seen a SJ is metagaming. You took my comment in the 'direction' this has gone in, not me. I was simply stating the need for common sense. In fact, if you read what I wrote, then you should be able to see that I was attempting to assuage the worries of other people. It is simply up to other people to RP responsibly.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 22:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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It didnt need to go there at all is my point. You brought it up and it holds no place in the topic. Simply wished to toss the lid on it so let's leave it at that!  But I digress! On topic: " *schwoop!* " " *pwoof* " I'd love to see that appear as an emote above them personally (on start, then on end respectively), but as it stands: if it isn't broken, why fix it?
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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chefwudan
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Posted: Fri, Apr 01 2011, 11:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL
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Well, I guess the real question I was trying to get at was, even though the widget makes a noise and a visual (which I don't really mind) is the noise and visual an IC thing or just for flair OOCly... in otherwords, ICly does it actually make the sound and visual?
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Fri, Apr 01 2011, 15:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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If WYSIWYG, yep.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Apr 01 2011, 17:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Yes, it does.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Sat, Apr 02 2011, 1:14 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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If you must, just imagine that it's the sound of air rushing into the space where you just were. You are teleporting after all.
Or just pretend it's whatever happens when Nightcrawler teleports. You know, the whole "*BAMF*" thing.
_________________  You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Sat, Apr 02 2011, 1:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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No, what Nightcrawler does makes him a BAMF.
Its more of a *pwif* sound in the animations.
But yes, exactly what Dark said.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Sat, Apr 02 2011, 1:39 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Oh, and something to help people understand why it makes a noise:
You know that sound you get when you pull the top off a vacuum-sealed jar? That's a relatively small pressure difference(there's still air in the jar, just less than outside) and a relatively small vacuum. Makes a pretty significant popping noise.
Now imagine opening a human-sized jar with a relatively high instantaneous pressure difference(instantaneously, there is no air where you just were), and a relatively large sized vacuum(your whole personal volume).
IMO, it would make like the "Gust of Wind" sound when you used it. But if all you've got to worry about is a little "pwif", you've got it pretty good.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Glyph
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Posted: Sun, Apr 03 2011, 20:29 PM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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I thought we agreed a long time ago that logic shouldn't be invoked in dnd? but ok yea sure, it goes pop because of pressure I can buy that...
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Sun, Apr 03 2011, 21:00 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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No, the suggestion is that you do not attempt to make things fit RL logic that obviously don't fit it.
If a logical explanation matches up with how something appears in game, it's fine. Flame catches things on fire. You drown if you don't have means to breath under water. Vacuums make noise when breached.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Glyph
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Posted: Sun, Apr 03 2011, 21:31 PM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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its just...there is already lore behind the shadowjump, I know because I spent two hours plus with derrin in game talking about it ICly, and guess what? no one was talking about noises. which is why i'm saying I don't quite get it, where is the -lore- on this? other than "it must go pop because wysiwyg"
(it doesn't exactly matter but I don't see and lore to back it up, just, 'it is'.)
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Apr 03 2011, 22:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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I know that removing the sound or visual isn't an option because of "balance reasons" (for lack of a better term, hence the quotes) but would there be consideration of changing what the visual is? When a few of us from the Academy were goofing around in the VFX Viewer module, we came across some pretty sexy, shadowy effects with accompanying sexy SFX.
If we brought some suggestions, would they be looked at, or is there no interest in changing it at all?
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Fox Nightshade
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Posted: Sun, Apr 03 2011, 23:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Location: UK
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_________________ Characters: Fox Nightshade, Liyra, Madison Harker (Log in: MD88) (Amia Chat)
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sun, Apr 03 2011, 23:40 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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LetumLux wrote: I know that removing the sound or visual isn't an option because of "balance reasons" (for lack of a better term, hence the quotes) but would there be consideration of changing what the visual is? When a few of us from the Academy were goofing around in the VFX Viewer module, we came across some pretty sexy, shadowy effects with accompanying sexy SFX.
If we brought some suggestions, would they be looked at, or is there no interest in changing it at all? This. I would definitely be interested.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Glyph
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Posted: Sun, Apr 03 2011, 23:46 PM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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i'm not saying change it >_> hell no, its pretty awesome. but this is a thread debating the mechanics and the lore, and the lore is lacking.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Apr 03 2011, 23:58 PM |
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Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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I didn't suggest you were saying that, Glyph. I am saying that.  If there is no existing Lore to suggest why it makes a sound, but we aren't getting rid of it, then the next step is really just to devise a good reason/Lore to go with the other myriad of setting errata that is what makes Amia its own little setting within Forgotten Realms. If the DMs are amenable to a change, it's also easier to work an idea of Lore into that at the same time - not to say it couldn't be done with it as it is now, but I think there are more appropriate SFXs (at the very least) and then you can match some Why to the Sound in one motion instead of pairing them up and trying to find something that fits after one is already there. But that isn't my only reason for asking. Lore will be created as it required, as it has in the past with the SD class on Amia, in particular. I just think the SJ could benefit from a face lift and would make people a bit happier about it making sound at all, if it's a sexy SFX.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 2:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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LetumLux wrote: If there is no existing Lore to suggest why it makes a sound, Quote: PaladinOfSune wrote:
Maryn wrote:
I rather like the sound. It's like the whoosh of the air and the shadows moving, and gives it flavor.
This is what I was thinking when I gave it that visual, by the way! There's your lore.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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LetumLux
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 2:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Shadows make sounds or the space between planes as the Jump is performed does? Shadows do not have substance or dimension; they are optics, and have no means or ability to make sound that is perceptible. It's not very strong Lore or nor even makes sense as just that, which is what I mean when there needs to be Lore developed. The idea can certainly work, but as just a simple statement as it currently was posted, it doesn't actually explain anything and just raises further questions.
Are the shadows themselves supernatural shadows, and thus don't act like mundane shadows? Is the sound perceptible on both sides of the Jump (i.e, both on the Prime Material and in the Shadow Plane, since the Jump passes between both? And if so, is it heard on the Shadow Plane at the beginning or at the end of the Jump?) Etc.
I'm not saying that there was no intention beyond the idea of it, I'm just saying that as it is presented to us at this moment, there's no actual Lore.
Last edited by LetumLux on Mon, Apr 04 2011, 2:37 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 2:36 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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If shadows can form into creatures animated by negative energy and drain your life awya and kill you, they are capable of making a small amount of noise when sucked crossplanar or whatever fancy crap as you shadowjump. Shadowjump makes the noise... end of story.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 2:42 AM |
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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LetumLux wrote: Shadows make sounds or the space between planes as the Jump is performed does? Shadows do not have substance or dimension; they are optics, and have no means or ability to make sound that is perceptible. Consider both Shadow Evade (which gives damage reduction) and Summon Shadow, both of which create effects that are very much substances. To be honest, I think this is being rather pedantic. The Shadow Jump was custom scripted entirely for Amia, so everything it does is both mechanics and lore, it makes sound because it makes sound, and it plays a visual because the ability has a visual. _________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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LetumLux
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 2:45 AM |
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Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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PaladinOfSune wrote: LetumLux wrote: Shadows make sounds or the space between planes as the Jump is performed does? Shadows do not have substance or dimension; they are optics, and have no means or ability to make sound that is perceptible. Consider both Shadow Evade (which gives damage reduction) and Summon Shadow, both of which create effects that are very much substances. To be honest, I think this is being rather pedantic. The Shadow Jump was custom scripted entirely for Amia, so everything it does is both mechanics and lore, it makes sound because it makes sound, and it plays a visual because the ability has a visual. I'm not trying to be neurotic about it, I'm pointing out that saying the shadows make sound isn't giving any actual information for those of us who have the 10 levels of SD to teach other people really should know when we're giving lessons. When they ask, "well, why does it make sound?" I'd like to be able to give them a full answer rather than, "Because it does, just like when you clap your hands" because that's an evasion, a shut down, not an actual answer. It doesn't teach. So what I'm asking from you, Sune, is can we detail this Lore; can we determine answers for things like what I asked above, and actually pin down the specifics - because wouldn't our characters, who have dedicated years of study and research and time into this discipline know these things?
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 3:15 AM |
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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I consider it a door analogy. Taking hold of the handle and pulling open the door delivers a rush of air as a large object is quickly moved.
A Shadow Jump is on a much larger, quicker and more forceful scale than that.
Moving away from the real-life notion that shadows can't be substances, imagine a Shadow Jump using a door. A door, a rift, a portal or what have you, made of shadow, using the transplanar space between two planes. When that 'door' is opened by the Shadowdancer, the force delivers a rush of wind to the nearby surroundings (which is represented visually already, if you use Shadow Jump next to long grass) just like opening a door would, the shadow stretching and molded forcefully to allow entry into that transplanar space for the Shadowdancer.
I haven't done much more than elaborate on my original post, mind you, but this is always how I've envisioned it. If you do happen to have any more appropriate visuals for this, however, feel free to send me a PM with the visual names or just screenshots, since I'll probably know what they are from looking at them anyway.
_________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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TheGoddessOfAmazing©
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 3:23 AM |
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Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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Suneys post is pretty much how I always pictured it too. In other words, my personal understanding anyways, you are jumping from point A to point B in a matter of seconds. The shift in the air around your body as you leap would be liken to the sound you hear when it's super windy outside, and it's pulling against the side of the building/house/trees etc. You can hear it, because the friction of air on solid mass is so fast, it makes a whoosh noise.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 3:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Shadow Jump is essentially Dimension Door, or a less cool (mechanically-speaking) version of Shadow Walk - I understand that.
Is this vacuum, this pressure differential so to speak, audible on both sides, or only on the Prime? Could a creature in the Plane of Shadow note the passage, if not the location of a Shadowdancer? If not, then why is contained only to the Prime? (Perhaps having to do with a Shadow Jump not being able to be performed on the Shadow Plane?)
For that matter, I don't believe it's ever been detailed or truly discussed, but can a Shadow Jump be made on other Planes besides the Shadow? (The Abyss, for instance?) Pretty much all the Lore is based around the Shadow being being Transitive with the Prime Material, but it doesn't really speak on how it interrelates with Planes which are not considered the "default" for everything that is considered Normal. (i.e., the Prime.)
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 3:27 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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I think it's a little silly to be overly concerned about such a minute detail of the ability. It's alright to have different IC theories, you know.
I understand our SD class is fitted with enough homebrew to make a stay-at-home-dwarf jealous, but I mean, come on. Nothing tells us explicitly why any non-physical spell makes the sound and visual it does when it is cast. We just know that it does, and PC's are left free to reason to whatever end they can theorize or prove. There's really no difference in this, except that SD is packed with so much Amia lore, that when we find a blank spot in it, we figure something's amiss, rather than think it's just really not that important.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 3:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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The difference between an IC theory and the actual Lore is that the Lore is true - and the reason is important is because one perhaps may have an IC theory that the Shadow Jump makes a sound on both Planes when it occurs, but without the Lore to check it against, there is no answer. The theory cannot be proven correct or false. If we just assume that it does or doesn't without the rest of the Lore for shadows making a sound during a Jump, then other people do and that can cause discrepancy if someone else just assumes it's the opposite of whatever the other person thought.
It's not just about "if a SD Jumps in a forest and no one is around to hear it..."; it's not about philosophical debate IC or OOC, or about perspectives, it's about what the fact of the matter is because these things should be noticeable and measurable to our characters. I'm harping on this one example because it's there for the abuse, but the concept is universal to Lore in general.
Why is it important? Because it's a pain in the ass for players if the characters supposedly know their stuff enough to be correct, but because we as players don't know (lack of Lore) we end up teaching both the character and the player wrong, and if they go to teach, they teach what they were taught to the next group, etc. Some people don't care about the reason for things, some people do; why is a big deal to have an answer for those people?
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 3:53 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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I think you're a little overly concerned about this "wrong" thing. If the answer is never definitively stated, you can't be "wrong". That's the whole point of leaving it up to the player. As Pally said, that's how he envisions it. No one's going to take away your SD Academy license because your PC says it's from X or Y, instead of Z, and furthermore, no one can prove that Z is 100% correct in the first place.
The same way I cast Gate, is that *Pff-domph* I hear air escaping into the Prime, or the sound of the actual magic, or whatever? My PC has his idea. And if someone disagrees with him, oh well. We're at an impasse, and at the end of the day, it matters not one way or another beyond that there is a sound to be heard.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Mahtan
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 5:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 May 2006
Location: That place with the green grass and that blue sky.
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I have actually explained the Shadow Jump for different planes, it can be done on any plane that is capable of casting shadows. So the Ethereal Plane will not work for one. The Abyss will, in fact the Shadow Plane is used for fast travel for lower planars over the Astral.
The Shadow Jump does make sound, but it is not the shadows making the sounds, it your body and the result of the shadow magic you being teleported with. Basicly another way to look at it is a spell that is only somatic, not vocals. So its a side effect like Acid Shealths annoying hum, does acid hum? Seems it does here.
Shadows themselves do not make noise, and within the shadow plane you can not shadow jump, so no one knows if it still makes noise there.
Please now, let this be settled. Shadowdancer is probly the must dug open class on Amia with the most lore made for it. So yes there is almost anything we can pick and try to ask why it does tthis or that. Other classes have all this too, with no explainations on why it works or does what it does, it just does.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 5:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Can you Shadow Jump on the Plane (or a Demiplane) of Negative Energy? Or Knowledge? (Essentially, what I am asking is, "Are all other places besides the Shadow Plane and maps like the Gauntlet which for some reason prevent Jumping, safe to use Jump on?")
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Mahtan
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 5:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 May 2006
Location: That place with the green grass and that blue sky.
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If it casts shadows you can shadow jump there. I think the negative energy plane proper does not have shadows, so the demi plane may not either. Research those planes and get your answer. Its basic stuff, if there is shadows you can still Shadowdance.
ICly do to mechanics of the game, dead magic zones seem to effect Shadowdancers abilities. You already know we are doing IC research on just this. Do not bring it up here since its all IC stuff and we don't even know.
No one knows most of this stuff, SDs were not the most lore filled class until we took it over and made it what it is now and I am glad it is still expanding.
As for areas it is blocked, it was done to stop people from Shadow Jumping across the traps. I doubt whoever put it in over 6 years ago even cared. So my guess is there is just an interference of some kind, a SD version of a wild or dead magic zone we have yet to ICly name.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 5:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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It's plainly stated in the books that Supernatural and Spell-like Abilities do not function in a Dead zone. The IC side is the characters confirming and exploring that, but it's an OOC fact unless the DMs decide to change that for the errata, or something. So honestly, we as players should already know the outcome if we've read any system books. >.>
And by having shadows, you also mean darkness, correct? I remember this was a huge point of confusion for a long time before you and Ron and the others drafted up some actual Lore guidelines, and I also remember getting raked over the coals once again because I was asking for a clarification on if "total darkness" was also considered "shadows" for the sake of SJ or HiPS because shadow implies there must be light, whereas darkness doesn't. Magical Darkness, I remember, is okay for SJ and HiPS (unless that has changed) and so it follows that normal darkness/complete absence of light is also okay for SJ, correct?
I'm not actually trying to be difficult, I swear. There are discrepancies, there are confusions, and I'm asking for there to be clarifications because we are playing this game in a medium that isn't always accurate to the Lore or the server rules.
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Mahtan
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 5:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 May 2006
Location: That place with the green grass and that blue sky.
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Yes I know that is said int he book that supernatural abilities are dead in dead magic. Such SD rules are also going on Astral Palne SDs not the Shadow Plane varient we go off of. And all of our own lore we expanded on conflicts with it on how they have the connection to the Shadows. If the connection was severed in dead magic we'd lose HiPS as well, and mechanicly we don't. We'd lose Dark Vison and we don't. There is loop holes all over if we try to follow our changes with the book. There is even loop holes in canon source books...
And when I say Shadows I mean shadows. Darkness is not shadows, to have shadows you need Darkness and light. Magic darkness works beccause there is light, and you add the darkness, you make shadows.
Now I am done for tonight. Try not to kill yourselves over this.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 6:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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It seems I'm being seen as attacking this thing with fire and brimstone when that isn't my intention or attitude about it at all, but rather to make sure misconceptions (like the thing about mundane darkness, which had been said years ago was actually okay, but I guess it isn't now? No SJ in the deep Underdark, I guess) are corrected and whatnot, so I'll just move along and stop antagonizing you guys. I'm not sorry for asking questions when I don't have the answers.
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 6:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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Rule of thumb I go by: If with the graphics turned up, you see a shadow: You can use it.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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Mahtan
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Posted: Mon, Apr 04 2011, 7:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 May 2006
Location: That place with the green grass and that blue sky.
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You can argue that all the UD is shadows really, with all the light on the surface and then the ground which make all your shadows under it. No one ever said you we attacking anything and I wasnt attacking you, just your interpretation and conclusions you keep coming to is causing more confusion than anything.
PM me if you want to go over technical stuff not even Wizards cared to write about so we dont confuse everyone.
Because really, there is no book answers for your questions. Just whatever me or another DM says on this stuff. I don't mind the questions, but lets try to not confuse everyone with premature conclusions.
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