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blackvswhite
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 Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 15:38 PM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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I'm not making this topic to discuss anything of the mechanics of the death system at all. No mechanics. Just Lore.
There needs to be something we can follow as to what happens to your character when he dies. Problems occur when you have characters that have died and come back many times. How do we RP it? Some people say their characters remember everything, so they don't have to fear death because they know they can come back with minimal repercussions. Also, if someone gets killed in a fight, they just come back to life and kill the other guy, since they are completely aware of everything in the world as if they didn't just DIE. The death system becomes inconsequential and the situation becomes a childrens' slap fight.
I personally think the standard should be you have no memory of the entire situation that led up to your death. If not this, then some other standard. Whatever Kelemvor says goes, but can we make it consistent?
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Glyph
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 15:42 PM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 15:49 PM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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right, good stuff.... but the question still remains in my mind... what is you character aware of after he gets back?
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hendrack
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 15:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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You don't remember your stay in the Fugue, everything else leading up to the cause of death is player disgression. Unless there's some rule regarding assassins, don't know now.
And this is the tenthousandth thread about death. Click search and read up on the hundreds of pages of heated debate...
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Glyph
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 16:03 PM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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Quote: this is the tenthousandth thread about death. thus why I only posted a link, but I will elaborate, the moment you hit the ground you are -dead-, you may retain consiousness for like, 10 seconds but you are very much dead. if you survive anything that happened while on said ground is not in your characters memory, and if you "respawn" which is covered in the link, you don't know how you got to, wherever it is you respawn to. nor can the fague be remembered. Quote: they just come back to life and kill the other guy no, there is a rule against this. 24 hour cooldown.ed: to be specific, this Quote: 11. If you clearly escape scene, you may not continue the ”same” PvP later, unless such behaviour is explicitly agreed by all involved parties. It is a new encounter with all the above rules. Parties may agree to a "mutual aggression" pact, where it is agreed that hostilities may commence whenever these parties interact. This must be supported by previous role-play, and is generally done when two factions (such as drow houses) have on going IC disputes that end in hostilities. It is the responsibility of the faction leaders to make sure everyone involved knows about the situation. Should this be the case, please inform the DMs about this in advance so that they know what is going on. I would like to add it is debatable if you could remember what happened -that actually killed you- and prior to, normally I reckon players act fairly hazy but would remember some things.
Last edited by Glyph on Wed, Mar 23 2011, 17:38 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 16:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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There's no cooldown. That rule simply states that if a PvP incident is clearly over, it's over and any continuation must be played by the book. That means you cannot ambush somebody out of nowhere and ignore the normal PvP protocol just because you were in a fight yesterday (or before you respawned a few minutes ago). It doesn't mean you can't immediately initiate another confrontation, but it does mean the other party gets the traditional RP and feasible chance to flee or otherwise avoid it.
As for how to RP stuff like this: I interpret game death as a knock-out or other trauma. You're only dead if in PvP your victor says you're dead (RPs killing you) or if a DM says so. Normally (in PvM) you can RP it as incapacitation.
My suggested solution, though: PERMADEATH. No? Ok, I'll just go away... but it's not too late! Fight for what you know is right! Permadeath!
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Wed, Mar 23 2011, 16:32 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Glyph
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 16:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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yup, the point being you shouldn't suddenly decide to run after someone and hellball them out of spite of losing or something =) play nice.
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hendrack
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 16:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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IronAngel wrote: As for how to RP stuff like this: I interpret game death as a knock-out or other trauma. You're only dead if in PvP your victor says you're dead (RPs killing you) or if a DM says so. Normally (in PvM) you can RP it as incapacitation. Assuming IC the character just got knocked out is fine, but there's not much to interpret on an OOC level. The game engine does that for you, and when your char bites the dust, hes dead, end of story. If that is really a rule I think it's stupid.
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Janna Ogder
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 17:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Sep 2010
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W00T! Quote: There is no longer a cap on the amount of gold that may be lost due to respawn.  IronAngel wrote: My suggested solution, though: PERMADEATH. No? Ok, I'll just go away... but it's not too late! Fight for what you know is right! Permadeath! Thread locked in 3....2....1...
_________________
I hated hipsters before hating them was cool.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 17:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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hendrack wrote: IronAngel wrote: As for how to RP stuff like this: I interpret game death as a knock-out or other trauma. You're only dead if in PvP your victor says you're dead (RPs killing you) or if a DM says so. Normally (in PvM) you can RP it as incapacitation. Assuming IC the character just got knocked out is fine, but there's not much to interpret on an OOC level. The game engine does that for you, and when your char bites the dust, hes dead, end of story. If that is really a rule I think it's stupid. It's always been fine and common practice (among DMs, even) to RP mechanical death as unconsciousness. PvP being an exception, of course. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Glyph
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 17:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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being stomped on by dragons does not result in unconsiousness  would play pvm by what happens, and also how many minus hp you have..
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 17:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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When you die, you die.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 17:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Do try to remember that your posts are taken as authoritative by many players. It might be prudent to make a distinction between personal taste and Amia policy to avoid confusion.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 17:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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No, I am pretty sure that when people die, they die. People die when they are killed. Like, this isn't an opinion or a server policy, or a you discrediting me to goad me thing. You die when ou die.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 17:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Considering the context, it seems as if your post is a reply to Hendrack's concern and the subsequent controversy. I'm not trying to goad you or anything, in all fairness and honesty your post seems to say that mechanical PvM death must be role-played as real, proper dying with all the Fugue stuff included or else you're breaking a DM ruling. If you're just stating a tautology, you're of course right but you're not making much of a point. Unless of course you're using it to subtly imply that role-playing incapacitation is silly, without actually having to comment on whether it's acceptable or not, I guess.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Glyph
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 17:59 PM |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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I agree with tormak because I semi knew exactly that would be posted, and has been said before, many times. incapacitated is between -9 and 0 hp, mechanical fact and the same in pnp.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 18:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Glyph wrote: I agree with tormak because I semi knew exactly that would be posted, and has been said before, many times. incapacitated is between -9 and 0 hp, mechanical fact and the same in pnp. Everybody agrees with Tormak because he posted a tautology. You cannot disagree with a tautology. But your post is an example of the kind if misinterpretation I warned about. He just said himself that he's not saying anything about Amia policies. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 18:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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IronAngel wrote: Glyph wrote: I agree with tormak because I semi knew exactly that would be posted, and has been said before, many times. incapacitated is between -9 and 0 hp, mechanical fact and the same in pnp. Everybody agrees with Tormak because he posted a tautology. You cannot disagree with a tautology. But your post is an example of the kind if misinterpretation I warned about. He just said himself that he's not saying anything about Amia policies. What Tormak said is not a tautology as his statement can be false if we are on fluffy bunny settings concerning death... But that is neither here nor there at this point. Actually I think Glyph's comment borders more on the question: How hardcore is Amian DnD when it governs death? Is the answer Hardcore? If yes, then Tormak is correct. -10 HP is when you die. As Amia has scripting in place allowing you to hit -10 when you drop to 0 HP and are not stabilized, it is logical to conclude that Amian DnD is therefore "Hardcore" when dealing with death. The only thing that overrules this are DMs, who in their playing of even the gods themselves, can decree you dodged a proverbial bullet of death. Also, DMs have granted the victor of PvP the ability to decide if they were merciful towards a defeated foe.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 18:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Tormak's statement was a tautology because he admitted he didn't say anything about Amia and its policies. Unless I completely misunderstood his second post, he specifically just said that when you die, you die. He didn't equate mechanical NWN death to IC story death.
There's no unclarity about how it works here: on Amia, you can RP regular PvM death as severe incapacitation if you choose to. I already established that. DMs have approved of it and done it themselves on several occasions over the years I've played and DMed here, and there's never been a public announcement to the contrary. There may be controversy about whether it's cool or makes sense, but it's certainly not against any rules. Maybe it should be (though I don't think so), but that's another matter. I'm sure the DM team will make a collective announcement about it if they decide so.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Glyph
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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-_- -10 hp = dead, end of discussion dead, read the DM manual.
you did not misread that.
ed: ie there is a difference between being alive, incapacitated, and dead, and has been, since 2nd ed, when they decided to change it from zero, thank gygax for that.
and for the record I have said what you are saying before and was told no by at least five people, end statement.
ed2: pvp excluded from the above for obvious reasons...im out.
ed3: ...also for the record I agree with tormaks -point- because if I didn't argue it people would follow that as a rule, that -11....anyway yea im out...
Last edited by Glyph on Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:16 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Jesus fucking christ, all I said is when you die, you die. You are literally arguing over that. I hate you people. This isn't a matter of opinion or policy. When you die. You. Die. Th spell is "Raise Dead." You died. Unless someone says you did not die, then you died if you hit -10 HP.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:17 PM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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but wouldn't it make things easy to have a specific lore statement on top of the OOC rules and everything that says
If you die and come back to life, you do not remember anything from the situation that got you killed.
just as the way it is when you are raised?
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Yes, and now you need to define "situation".
I didn't comment on that. At all. I purposefully did not comment.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Selmak
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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blackvswhite wrote: but wouldn't it make things easy to have a specific lore statement on top of the OOC rules and everything that says
If you die and come back to life, you do not remember anything from the situation that got you killed.
just as the way it is when you are raised? No, because then you're basically rewriting memories. You have to kind of hope that players who engage in PvP will have the sense not to get caught in an infinite loop of 'oh there's that guy who killed me, I had better return the favour' RP. Whatever else they agree regarding the situation is up to them to decide at present.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:24 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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blackvswhite wrote: but wouldn't it make things easy to have a specific lore statement on top of the OOC rules and everything that says
If you die and come back to life, you do not remember anything from the situation that got you killed.
just as the way it is when you are raised? *deathangst moan* No. This has been suggested multiple times. You remember everything up until the point of death, unless -you-, the person dying, RP it differently. Or the person you kill agrees to forget, but that's up to them. If you're trying to assassinate someone, or kill someone in a way that won't remember who it is, dress differently, before or after. Your PC lives in a world of magic, if they can't get over the fact that the people they kill without a moment's thought have a good chance of being magically resurrected with tme magic that pervades that world, then they need to do a better job in the first place. Again, you can't get mad because magic allows people to come back from death. That's the setting. You have to deal with that. Your PC has to deal with that. Not only would such a ruling babysit PCs who aren't willing to take IC actions to avoid IC consequences, but it would mess with plenty of past stories. _________________  You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:42 PM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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so you remember absolutely everything up to the point of death, so you remember the dagger going through your stomach, and you recall seeing the man's face grinning at you as you slide to the ground and the dagger rises through your body to meet your heart.
you see the guy the next day, yell at him, but he says he doesn't want any trouble and walks away, because he can do that.
I see that as a double immersion breaker, one for each player:
1. dude A kills dude B, dude B shows up the next day like nothing happened and wants to fight again.
2. dude B wants to kill dude A for obvious reasons, but he isn't allowed unless dude A is ok with fighting.
sure, I have a bit of a vested interest in this as an increasing number of my characters are evil, and the majority of my characters are also rogue based, but it just makes things smoother in my mind. not everyone takes death well.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:50 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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blackvswhite wrote: so you remember absolutely everything up to the point of death, so you remember the dagger going through your stomach, and you recall seeing the man's face grinning at you as you slide to the ground and the dagger rises through your body to meet your heart. Well firstly, that guy sucks as an assassin. Secondly, the guy can walk off -if you give him the appropriate out-. Or as you might want to say, the wrong out. If you say "Get out of my face before I kill you for killing me!", well, then , get can do exactly that. He can get out of your face before you kill him. That's your fault. Now if you say something like "kneel before me and beg for forgiveness", maybe he's not so eager to use that out. Or something like "If you don't stop walking away and at least talk to me and tell you why you killed me, I'm coming after you." There are multiple ways you can word your outs where your PC can usually pressure to get what they want(a rematch), unless the other character is a complete pushover. But in the end, ultimately it is down to them if they want to fight, the same was it was up to you when you got into a fight in the first place. The rule goes both ways. You can't be mad just because the first match didn't turn out the way you wanted and they don't want a rematch to resettle it. _________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Selmak
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 19:58 PM |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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You should not go on a tear after the guy who just killed you fair and square. That just sets up a cycle of 'I kill you because you killed me' that can go on and on. If you find some new grounds besides that to initiate PvP (such as: he threatens someone else's life and your character would intervene) then that should be fine.
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 20:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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Quote: Tormak's statement was a tautology because he admitted he didn't say anything about Amia and its policies You may wish to look up the definition once more. It could be a tautology, yes, if out of context and for reasons not the same as you cite. Rhetorical tautology, however, it is not. Otherwise we say about the same thing: DMs will make calls as they make calls. There is no need for an official policy when that is the case. Not all DMs will play it out the same themselves or tell you to do so, but legitimacy in a character story, on this server, is dictated by the staff and DMs. This means the call is theirs unless they tell us otherwise. Ex: Victor in PvP gets to say if you are dead. That PvP bit is ridiculous though with the new widgets. If you want to KO someone, it does have a feature for that...
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 20:04 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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If someone uses Raise Dead or Resurrection on you, you were dead. The spells don't raise "fainted" people.
If you respawn or the person who "killed" you says you're unconscious, then you were unconscious.
Simple as that.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 21:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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DustSpray101 wrote: Quote: Tormak's statement was a tautology because he admitted he didn't say anything about Amia and its policies You may wish to look up the definition once more. It could be a tautology, yes, if out of context and for reasons not the same as you cite. Rhetorical tautology, however, it is not. Please, let's not start again. The definition of a tautology is a formula or sentence which is true by virtue of its form alone. That is to say, whatever truth values you assign to the propositions or terms it includes, the whole remains true. The statement in question can be formulated as follows: D(x) -> D(x), or "If x Dies, then x Dies." As you can see from the truth table of implication, the two possible combinations of truth values in the formula both result in a true statement. I'm not sure if rhetorical tautology is somehow different from logical tautology, but the important point is that Tormak by his own admission didn't say anything about Amia rules and mechanics. He simply stated a tautologous (or self-evident, obvious) fact to let you make up your mind about it. That's important to realize, because you act as if a DM call was made. There was no DM call. And if there was, which would have been fine, it would still have been prudent of us to ask for a collective team decision because common practice and past recommendations would be at odds with a new decision, leaving players confused. Dark Immolation: I don't RP Raise Dead scrolls as Raise Dead, but rather violent CPR magic which will restart your organs and fix you up but can't bring your soul back from Kelemvor; you need a priest for that. If you do it different, that's fine. But I won't RP my PCs using scrolls on long-dead PCs, and neither will I RP them coming back from a peaceful afterlife after a casual hunting accident. Unless there was a real priest and real prayer involved, anyway. Your idea is sensible, but it's simply not enforced. DMs have repeatedly allowed, encouraged and themselves practiced such omission of daily death in favor of more meaningful story death. No matter which way you look at it, it's simply a long-established practice on Amia. It might be silly and you might not like it, but that's just the way it's been for as long as I've played here. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Grymia
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 22:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Barring Deliberate effort on an IC part to use Subdaul over Lethal damage (flatblade, pulling your blows etc.) which can be reflected in Emotes ..
Death, is Death.. -10 HP = Pushing up Daisies, D-E - A-D. Tormak said it, the system supports it, that's what it is, and I'm pretty sure many of the other DMs agree but not 100% certain.
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Yossarin
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 22:03 PM |
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Well, if you're really curious, I'll DM Kill you in game and you can see what it is like to be dead. Bring a snack.
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Selmak
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 22:11 PM |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Being dead isn't too bad. It's like that time you want to the pub, had too much to drink on an empty stomach, and hurled in the street. Then everything is black for a while. Being alive again is much worse. It's like when you wake up at a friend's house wondering where the hell you are and why your head hurts so much.
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Vaul Tarrith
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 22:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Location: 9th Circle of Hell...with the steaks and Rum
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Snacks...GOOD Hangover...BAD. You guys really DON'T get paid to put up with us?! I thank you...while simultaneously wondering about your sanity. 
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Glyph
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 22:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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Quote: If someone uses Raise Dead or Resurrection on you, you were dead. The spells don't raise "fainted" people.
If you respawn or the person who "killed" you says you're unconscious, then you were unconscious.
Simple as that.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 22:25 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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IronAngel wrote: Dark Immolation: I don't RP Raise Dead scrolls as Raise Dead, but rather violent CPR magic which will restart your organs and fix you up but can't bring your soul back from Kelemvor; you need a priest for that. Well that's you RPing something differently that it is otherwise stated, right? As far as the game is concerned, as far as the DM's that have commented so far are concerned, you are Dead. And you are in fact dead when it shows up as "X killed Y", unless otherwise stated by the killing party or the person respawning. Not that that's wrong, that's not my call to make. But ICly, the spell you bought from Waukeens or the spell you're casting is "Raise Dead", unless you've gotten approval to play it otherwise. So as simple as it can be put, you are -dead- when you are -dead-. It's not really tautology, no more than saying the lightbulb is out when it is out. "How will I know when the light is out?". "Well, when there's no more light." "How will I know when I'm dead?" "Well, when it shows 'Sam I Am - Dead', unless someone killed you and claims you are unconscious." _________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
Last edited by Dark Immolation on Wed, Mar 23 2011, 22:29 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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TeroSNS
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 22:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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This sort of downgrades the meaning of death... I mean you die half a million times during your career, and you just shrug it off. Sometimes even by yourself with the cost of your earthly coin and experience.
_________________ My favourite sniper loadout: Huntsman, jarate, bushwacka. Team Fortress 2 is FREE TO PLAY! 
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 22:33 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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TeroSNS wrote: This sort of downgrades the meaning of death... I mean you die half a million times during your career, and you just shrug it off. Sometimes even by yourself with the cost of your earthly coin and experience. And the problem with that is....what exactly? Death -is- downgraded in a fantasy land. What about that is so hard for people to understand? Naturally, when you live in a land of magic, magic that brings people back from death, death doesn't have the same meaning it does in out world. _________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Wed, Mar 23 2011, 23:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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As I said, not the same reason you cited. Nothing to start at all. IronAngel wrote: ...you act as if a DM call was made. There was no DM call. There is no need to try and peg me. You're acting under the same assumption: IronAngel wrote: It's always been fine and common practice (among DMs, even) to RP mechanical death as unconsciousness. PvP being an exception, of course. That is what you wrote. It implies calls are made on situations -by- DMs. None of them, however, have spoken on behalf of the whole team but rather in these 'common' events that occur often enough to be considered the norm in practice. DMs are calling the shots all the time when it comes to IG occurrences. Anyone familiar with DnD knows that. In NWN you have a unique twist where you have multiple DMs. Each DM is free to enforce/say whatever they wish to on the topic of 'death' as they are only bound to the rules of the server which seems to almost purposefully leave the topic of 'death' out. No need for a policy, IMHO, if it means the DM team remains free to do their individual things their own individual ways. Different strokes for different folks.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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ainjyll
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 1:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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Give me a good reason to not lock this. There's been plenty of these threads made before and they've all degenerated into exactly what this one has... arguing over semantics and restating the exact same things in 1 billion different forms.
Please, get this thing going somewhere and quick.
_________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 3:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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I've gotten a reasonable response that answered the OP out of this. Should have said that approximately 14 posts ago.  you can go ahead and lock it if you must, but I still think you guys should define more clear actions of what you know after you come back from death (and it shouldn't be everything IMHO, but I do understand where that opinion is coming from). EDIT: and it IS a tautology.
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Glyph
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 4:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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you don't have to downgrade death, work it into your RP. in dnd there is a difference between death and being utterly destroyed, but I can't help but feel this has just turned into an argument rather than constructive perspectives on the matter.
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Murex
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 5:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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So.....what's the verdict on this topic?
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 5:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Roundabout pointless arguing, largely over a 5 word post I made.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Murex
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 5:22 AM |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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TormakSaber wrote: Roundabout pointless arguing, largely over a 5 word post I made. Oh, thanks. 
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TeroSNS
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 6:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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Back to OP:
This same thing has bugged me since I joined onto Amia, so it would be nice that we would have an official server statement, that everyone should follow.
Official answer to what happens when you respawn, would be appreciated too... actually especially that.
_________________ My favourite sniper loadout: Huntsman, jarate, bushwacka. Team Fortress 2 is FREE TO PLAY!
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 8:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Can we get a ruling from the entire DM team: Am I breaking server rules if I RP regular PvM death as severe incapacitation and going to the brink of death, rather than going to visit Kelemvor and having to get my soul called back with divine approval? I would especially appreciate feedback from Nekh who in the role of the Head DM used to approve of and encourage the practice. (EDIT: Nevermind the above, better make a seperate topic.) This much is clear and not up to debate: this has been acceptable practice for years and there's never been a rule against it. So any players trying to argue otherwise are simply wrong. I was a DM and I also approved of it, so I have 100% certainty that at least some DMs approved of it. I also know Nekh was of this opinion, and probably others I can't name know. The only one I remember being clearly of the contrary opinion is Tormak (though many probably silently agree and just didn't comment). In any case, public and unchallenged forum discourse has given the impression that this is fine until now. If a new call has been made, it needs to be announced publically, as always when DMs make different calls on an unclear issue and clarification is requested. Why is this important? Because of this: Dark Immolation wrote: Well that's you RPing something differently that it is otherwise stated, right? As far as the game is concerned, as far as the DM's that have commented so far are concerned, you are Dead. And you are in fact dead when it shows up as "X killed Y", unless otherwise stated by the killing party or the person respawning.
No DM commented anything like that in this topic. Players keep on insisting that they have. This is largely due to Tormak's comment. I warned that it would be misleading, and I was right. Tormak and Yossarin are the only DMs to comment on the issue, and Tormak explicitly denied saying anything about Amia policies whereas Yossarin is being his usual evasive and obscure self. This is fine, but players clearly misunderstood DM posts so an official clarification would be prudent. And saying a lightbulb is out if it's out is a tautology par excellence. >_> I don't think you understand the point: Tormak stated a semantic truth and specifically did not comment on how it should be interpreted on Amia, and whether game-dying and story-dying are equivalent. He said this himself, twice. There may be subtle underlying suggestions in the use of the tautology, but what's actually said remains just a logical truth. Don't put words into his mouth.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Glyph
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 21:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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Quote: any players trying to argue otherwise are simply wrong players opinions matter on this server, your trying to overrule a core mechanic with the hierachy system and no one is buying it. well, actually apparently they are.
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Thu, Mar 24 2011, 21:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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Not what I think he was saying, or trying to say at least. But, you are correct sir. Our opinions matter for the staff is pseudo-benevolent.
I am curious though... If a player dies in PvM, they may ignore the mechanics and say they are alive, just KO'd. If a shadow dancer has no shadows to hide in, and hides via HIPS, this too is ok and acceptable?
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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