AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Of breaking the signs and metagaming the guards

I'd only like to remind the players who enjoy breaking signs in Cordor that doing that in front of the guards would make them react in some manner. Especially when the signs promote trade opportunities that Cordor offers.

Or I'm mistaken, and the guards would stand while someone chops someone's private property to pieces in Cordor (or Bendir Dale/etc)?

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32364

While I'm not a DM, I'll say it depends on whether or not the sign owner and/or the person breaking the sign are adventurers, and then if either of them are citizens.

Cordor Guards aren't nice!

But, as a rule of thumb, I'd go with "No, don't do that, because the guards are liable to club both you/strip you/tell you to knock it off." Unless of course a DM wants to chime in and correct me, and whatever else.

I'm aware of the thread. But people keep forgetting that breaking private property is also a crime. It happens every damn time I place a sign in Cordor square. And people are doing it without any reason.

"Oh look at this sign! It's placed by PC who would be pissed if its gone! Let's break it! Problem officer?" >.>

Its not only metagaming of the guards but also a metagaming of the sign. Why not trying to break a thrash barrel? Becouse you know its futile.

It's a double-edged sword. The same way a guard might not let someone break a sign in the city, they just as well might not let them post it in the first place.

An example I've seen sickeningly has happened in Kohlingen. A PC puts up signs involving undead and a certain respected champion against said undead in rather suggestively lewd depictions with them. It would be fine anywhere like out on the roads, but they put them right next to a guard.

As openminded a city as Kohl is, I'm pretty sure the guards don't just stand idly by while someone puts up depictions of softcore zombie porn, featuring a person the city probably respects.

My point is that if it is meta to tear down signs around guards, people should also be aware that it may be equally meta to put them up to begin with. The example I cited is a bit on the extreme end, but who's to say Joe Schmo guardsman cares what that you're "Selling Honey and Juice - Really Cheap!". Your damn sign is blocking the main road. Or it's just an eyesore. Or he just doesn't like your adventuring ass flaunting your gold and business. After all, there are public noticeboards in Cordor, what makes you so special you get to put up your own sign right next to the City Hall?

However, the Law Tablets do not say anything about putting signs up, they do however say something about vandilizing them.

There are public noticeboards in Cordor? Where? Invisible ones maybe?
And it's really hard to compare zombie porn painting placed in Kohlingen with simple "Come to Cordor Market" sign.
As far as I know, Cordor supports trade and merchants. Weather the guardsman like me or not doesn't matter at all until I break the law. And since, as jimbono1 pointed out, its still not illegal to advertise your wares, I have every right to place my sign.

Merchant vs Random-bored-adventurer-vandal? I think its pretty much obvious.

there is no way to rp taking a sign if you dont own it without destroying it other than emoting. if the guards dont want you to vandalize, dont, just take it down. if a pc asks you why you destroyed it, look confused, say it is right there on the floor, and proceed with rp.

yeah. and than the same PC kills off your PC and says "I only pushed you." you are still alive. >.>
If its not your sign, either wait for PC guard to come along, or wait for DM to emote the guard. Its that simple.

i forgot that i could die... didnt take that into account, but ya pvp over a sign is cool... *shudders and hides in his goblin cave*

Dark Immolation wrote:

It's a double-edged sword. The same way a guard might not let someone break a sign in the city, they just as well might not let them post it in the first place.

...

My point is that if it is meta to tear down signs around guards, people should also be aware that it may be equally meta to put them up to begin with. The example I cited is a bit on the extreme end, but who's to say Joe Schmo guardsman cares what that you're "Selling Honey and Juice - Really Cheap!". Your damn sign is blocking the main road. Or it's just an eyesore. Or he just doesn't like your adventuring ass flaunting your gold and business. After all, there are public noticeboards in Cordor, what makes you so special you get to put up your own sign right next to the City Hall?

*Points up*

Dead wrote:

There are public noticeboards in Cordor? Where? Invisible ones maybe?

"Cordor South Noticeboard"

Quite visible, by the docks. It's ICly where the stuff posted "In Cordor" in the PC Notice Board would show up, for South Cordor at least.

To those in the know, Dead is hardly qualified to be determining legalities in Cordor!

For the record, though, I'll say you are both right and wrong, and it depends upon several factors: your career, your attitude, your race, and whether or not you have a certain piece of documentation on your person...

tsukasa1991 wrote:

there is no way to rp taking a sign if you dont own it without destroying it other than emoting. if the guards dont want you to vandalize, dont, just take it down. if a pc asks you why you destroyed it, look confused, say it is right there on the floor, and proceed with rp.

Well, if you take the sign without permission, that would be stealing, no?

signs and other placables can be removed, at the cost of one more per day use, without bashing. I suggest do that.

of course the problem is others bashing in this case

Yossarin wrote:

To those in the know, Dead is hardly qualified to be determining legalities in Cordor!

For the record, though, I'll say you are both right and wrong, and it depends upon several factors: your career, your attitude, your race, and whether or not you have a certain piece of documentation on your person...

Could you be more specific on the factors? Like which races would give a positive reaction from the guards? What do you mean by career? etc. Cuz I dont wanna go ahead and assume that my character would recieve a positive reaction on all those fields but I'm 90% sure that he would.

From past experiences in Cordor... I'd say they favor merchants and any non-monstrous (Kobolds, Goblins, tiefers, etc) races. They might have something against stunties, though, not sure.

... Actually, on second thought, I'm not sure they'd enjoy non-citizen merchants who don't pay taxes...

That's what my thoughts were.

You're an adventurer carrying dangerous magics and weapons, you don't pay taxes, you don't really even contribute to the city's prosperity as you're selling to other adventurers with prices too high for any commoner to pay. There's very little reason for them to abide you in the first place and any foreign race, profession or general weirdness probably doesn't help it.

Even if it was true (which is not), still there is no law that would stop me from putting the signs, while there's a law that prevents others from destroying it.

Why not just pm a DM and ask what the guard's reaction would be? Instead of assuming what the NPC would do.

I think a permit should be obtained in order to place a sign in the city proper. The sign should have a disclaimer proving the permit was obtained. One permit per sign type, not one permit per character.
No permit, fair game for removal.

Dead wrote:

Even if it was true (which is not), still there is no law that would stop me from putting the signs, while there's a law that prevents others from destroying it.

What isn't true? There's quite the precedent for both commoner and guards not particularly carrying for adventurers in Cordor. And just because some tablet says it, it doesn't mean that the guards respect that equally for everyone. Who cares about your "rights" if you're not even a citizen? And your adventurer in particular may not carry deadly magics or only sell to other adventurers, but as a jist, adventurers usually do. Thus, the guards may or may not care for you. In other words,

Bob wrote:

Why not just pm a DM and ask what the guard's reaction would be? Instead of assuming what the NPC would do.

When in doubt, ask. Both people wanting to put signs up or take them down.

Here is the general criteria the faction uses: Is it in the way of something? Is is a ridiculous/stupid/offensive sign? How many signs are in the area? Is it making the area crowded with the current amount of people here?

If it's in the middle of the road, with a stupid/offensive/unnecessary statement, or it's joined by about 2-3 other signs in the same area and/or there are lots of people around, I/we will generally take it down. I usually emote taking the sign away, but no one reads my emotes anyway, so it has the same result. "The guards broke my sign, those assholes!"

Now, the answers/clues as to "who" would be screwed over by the guards are honestly everywhere. There have been little interaction-type events, the guards' voice triggers, legislation...

Bob wrote:

Why not just pm a DM and ask what the guard's reaction would be? Instead of assuming what the NPC would do.

Wisdom

A glimmer of common sense!?

How did that et here...

This is exactly what you -should- do before putting words/actions to NPCs without being a DM.

In Bendir signs aren't necessarily sacred, even if posted by Hin or other Dale races.
Tip 1: Town full of Hin.
Tip 2: Hin like pranks and tricks.

Some things are serious, and those are handled accordingly for the most part, but 9/10 if a post outside the wall clashes with Hearth Law, it either finds itself lit on fire by a cuddly 'Quin and marked by a footprint or torn down and reported by the Regulars and/or Irregulars (who often then keep an eye on whomever replaces the message), etc.

Burningoutbright wrote:

If it's in the middle of the road, with a stupid/offensive/unnecessary statement, or it's joined by about 2-3 other signs in the same area and/or there are lots of people around, I/we will generally take it down..

My sign was not offensive, was not in the middle of the road, was not with 2-3 other signs and there was in no way offending or bothering anyone. Yet every time I place it, and I dont mean that day, I mean for more than a year now, someone smashes it to bits.

My character may not have the citizenship, but he is well known dwarven merchant who spends most of his time in the Market Hall, and who is having a long time trade relationship with some of the most renown Dawnguards.

Is it good enough not to get my signs smashed by random people?

Well apparently if this is happening on a daily basis, maybe your merchant should you know, check on his sign every so often? Not saying whoever removing them is exactly in the wrong or right, but it would seem to me that someone is interested in removing them.

Do a stake out or something. It's either random people, or someone with a vendetta. Either source is able to be dealt with IC easier than trying to second guess if any guards saw it or not. The few times I've put up signs in Cordor, they've never been messed with.

He is checking them. And even if he caught someone doing it? What then? Complain to a guard? >.>
I think its the easiest not to metagame the guards and leave the signs alone.

Dead wrote:

Burningoutbright wrote:

If it's in the middle of the road, with a stupid/offensive/unnecessary statement, or it's joined by about 2-3 other signs in the same area and/or there are lots of people around, I/we will generally take it down..

My sign was not offensive, was not in the middle of the road, was not with 2-3 other signs and there was in no way offending or bothering anyone. Yet every time I place it, and I dont mean that day, I mean for more than a year now, someone smashes it to bits.

My character may not have the citizenship, but he is well known dwarven merchant who spends most of his time in the Market Hall, and who is having a long time trade relationship with some of the most renown Dawnguards.

Is it good enough not to get my signs smashed by random people?

ah, okay, so you made this topic because you're butthurt about a specific incident instead of handling it IC or going to a DM.

Locked, handle it privately.

Of breaking the signs and metagaming the guards

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