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I'll get straight to the point.. What goes on in the mind of a man? Of course I have my own bias opinions all that are female angsty driven. So what in your opinion are common goals for a man specifically in the Amia setting? I know some would be the same as a female adventurer but I am more looking for a male perspective.

This is as fallacious a question as me asking about roleplaying a woman.

I suppose it depends on whether you want to play a sort of contemporary man, chivalrous man, cro-magnon man, etc...

I rather ask than make some horrible stereotypical man or a very feminine one. It would probably be the latter of the two. Just reaching for some insight.

The genders are just subsets of people, there's no reason to think their goals would be any different. Not just "some of them". Just keep to what's in your style or go nuts and experiment a little. Unless you're trying to go for "what the average man wants". In such a case, the conventional wisdom may hold true!

A more educated answer (which I heard from someone clever), males and females have basically two different areas of... difference. Biological, and societal. Biological is fairly obvious, people kind of make a bigger deal on this than it really is (maybe not in Amia, game and all). Societal is largely-dependent on where the characters are, live, and grew up. Are females expected to stay in the kitchen, bear children and like cute things, are males expected to toil endlessly for their female overlords, like swords, beards and talking gruffly. Those differences would probably shape a character's goals fairly significantly, so stuff to think about maybe? Figure out the sort of societal pressure that would be placed on your character (or pick a pressure reaction and choose a location...)

I don't think anyone would notice a stereotypical man. The gender divide is unequal (largely because of society) and one of the perks is that no one cares about stereotypical men. The worst you could do is go an uber-macho man and even then people would think you're being ironic.

Ravenousfaerie wrote:

So what in your opinion are common goals for a man specifically in the Amia setting?

Brawling, beer and boobs.

Depends on the character and race, really. Gender is secondary unless you want to divide the roles down to cliches like heroic knight vs behind the kitchen, b****.

Thanks for the answers so far. I guess what I am a little concerned with is the way a man and a woman would deal with the same situation differently. More of ...what is the logic behind the average male mind. I feel it would help me make a more believeable character. Thanks for the serious answers so far. I didn't think about societal as much. Although to my understanding is that Forgotten Realms or Amia was fairly equal when it came to sexes but I know some people have different opinions on that? Correct me if I am wrong.

Gender shouldn't matter in how you choose to roleplay a PC. Most of the things that matter from gender come from the outside world, not what goes on internally. Now there is some nurture-vs-nature stuff that goes on in a persons life that may cause their personality to change, but that's another thing entirely.

In other words, there is no "all men think this way." There is however "Some men are taught or molded by experiences to think 'this is how a man should think', and then modify themselves over time to try to match that ideal."

The same for women. For example. A personal bug for me is, in the Amuricas at least, how some women/females scream when they see an insect, or are quick to scream. There is nothing genetically that causes a female to scream or act overly cowardly at the sight of an insect. But instead, they have been taught, no directly, but through observation and experience from other people/media/etc, that that is the proper or expected thing to do. So, over time, possibly even at a young age, the mentality shifts where a woman who grows up in such an environment will convince themselves subconsciously that they are in fact scared of such things.

The same thing happens with men and things like cars and trucks and guns and such. Now I'm not saying that every guy that likes those things has done so because of nurture, but again, from a young age in a lot of different societies they are encouraged towards such things. But there is nothing genetic that makes a man like cars, specifically.

Now when you get into things like sexuality, and wanting the biggest and best X for men, or dressing or being concerned about image for women(and men to, of all things, even towards other men!), that's something you might say is genetic related. But even then, there is no blanket rule. And besides. There's no cybering on Amia, so no need to worry about that stuff anyway. >_>

Source: Being the son of a psychologist who loves Freud and Jung, and asking way too many "why" questions as a child.

Edit:

Ravenousfaerie wrote:

...what is the logic behind the average male mind.

Faulty premise.

1. Violence is the answer. Aka be aggressive. If you can't do that, if you're the sniveling weiner boy that can't even fight for his loaf of bread with a rat, get an inferiority complex, because you've failed yourself as a man.

2. You don't ask. You tell. Aka "Balls of Steel" - Duke Nukem.

3. Kind of an expansion of 1, but be competitive. It's the basic difference between boys and girls at an early age. Girls compliment others as a way of bonding with others, while boys will compete over who has better socks even as a way of establishing superiority, dominance, and respect.

4. Be aggressive.

There's two which are great for working out your character concepts in one's head. A character's behaves and their actual nature. Those are the two most constants that one needs to cement, and once you have that everything else falls into place. Virtually every one of my characters I've ever played developed from similar thought processes. How are they like, what is their core?

Rras: Repentant Monster
Reah: Idealist Martyr
Xyrkha: Intrepid Hedonist
Mentaki: Benevolent Thinker

Gender, Skills, Attributes, Backround... all contribute to those and let you paint the 'framework' for one to Roleplay with... At least thats how I do it.

My main point is that most of the differences in gender are the result of reactions to outsider experiences, rather than something innately internal to the gender.

And that when you say "average mind", you've already started off on the wrong foot. Minds are filled with qualitative, subjective information and experiences, not numbers. For instance, the old faux poll that the "average" man thinks about sex every 10 seconds. You'd be led to believe that most men are thinking about it every 10 seconds on the dot, when in reality it may be the majority of them thinking about it a few times per day and a secluded bunch of nymphos that think about it every 0.5 seconds. Or some men think about it a lot at some parts of a day and then very little at others, or maybe it depends on what they ate they morning, or what they were exposed to, or if their father hugged them when they were little, or if their mother called that morning. There is no "average man/mind/human", except for the homunculus we create for the purpose of understanding a very complex system(humans and society) in a very simple way(numbers).

Which leads to us not understanding it at all, really, but believing we do.

if the whole 0.6 seconds thing we're true can you imagine how many people would have KO'ed themselves in car accidents?! my point being its BS, though not without reasoning xD

I tend to think immolation is right with the average thing, but there are subtle differences that 'usually' appear exclusively between the genders. sort of...it isn't as clear cut as that, which is why I agree.

if I had to point out one example it would be that it seams men do the chasing and women like it that way, but not always the case, infact some guys and galls are the exact opposite.

ed: I meant 6 seconds not 0.6 xD

ed2: I forgot to mention if we're going by the relative history setting that would change alot of things, the extremes were highly more...extreme back then

Last edited by Cerpin Taxt on Sun, Mar 20 2011, 2:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Ravenousfaerie wrote:

Thanks for the answers so far. I guess what I am a little concerned with is the way a man and a woman would deal with the same situation differently. More of ...what is the logic behind the average male mind. I feel it would help me make a more believeable character. Thanks for the serious answers so far. I didn't think about societal as much. Although to my understanding is that Forgotten Realms or Amia was fairly equal when it came to sexes but I know some people have different opinions on that? Correct me if I am wrong.

high self confidence
being strong; only using two handed weapons
avoiding emotional responses to problems; logical thinker yet a nagging urge to hit people (mainly elves)
the desire to reproduce; willingness to be hurt over a woman

The main issue with "normal" is that our version of "normal" and FR version of "normal" is completely different. serbiris kinda touched on it with societal pressures. To expound a bit, a drow male would act completely different from a man from Mulan. Add to that the compounding factor of religion and you have a quite vibrant and varied tapestry to choose your thread from.

Wanna know the best way to RP a "normal" man? It's pretty easy, research the values of the culture of the PC you're creating. Research the standards of the religion of the PC you're creating. Fill in gaps and modify where needed.

This standard applies to either gender, really. THe lore will give you an insight into the culture of the person you're playing. Though this isn't the last word. You can have a defiant, chauvinistic male drow if you want... just have a good reason for why he survived for so long.

Think of a woman and add reason and accountability.

//Bastardized Jack Nicholson

Men tend to express themselves more through their actions, i.e. would tend to do something to prove a point rather than say something.
At least that's my observation.

That again is more of a social-nurtured thing than innate. For instance, most of the women in my immediate family are the quick-to-act type, while my father, grandfather and I are more thinker-types.

Maybe that explains why I'm so weird, according to everyone else. >_>

I say research the culture and social nature of the man you want to roleplay, more than men in general. For instance, a tribal tuigan male from the Hordelands may be more quick to act and prove his prowess, or a Mulan man might want to sit back and think more before acting, not wanting to be "irrational like a woman", or maybe a Cormyran noble man wishes to solve the situation in the most chivalrous, diplomatic way, while the guy from Zhentil wants to be cut, dry, and resolved, not wanting to show what he considers the a weak quality, indecisiveness. The social expectations of a gender differ from culture to culture.

Step One: Drop your preconceived Victorian ideas that men and women are so utterly different.

Step Two: Give your toon a Male Name

Step Three: Continue RP. And for the love of all and anything holy, do not type: *giggles* to explain a short laugh.

Dump ANY thought process that does NOT take into consideration your pants, some female's pants, and removal of same...

I also want to recognize that Yoss stole that line from Jack Nicholson...and a good line it is. :twisted:

ed: Gurk...just read the Ultra Fine Print.

It isn't theft if it is properly attributed, which it is.

I stand...nay, SIT corrected

Dark Immolation wrote:

That again is more of a social-nurtured thing than innate. For instance, most of the women in my immediate family are the quick-to-act type, while my father, grandfather and I are more thinker-types.

Maybe that explains why I'm so weird, according to everyone else. >_>

I say research the culture and social nature of the man you want to roleplay, more than men in general. For instance, a tribal tuigan male from the Hordelands may be more quick to act and prove his prowess, or a Mulan man might want to sit back and think more before acting, not wanting to be "irrational like a woman", or maybe a Cormyran noble man wishes to solve the situation in the most chivalrous, diplomatic way, while the guy from Zhentil wants to be cut, dry, and resolved, not wanting to show what he considers the a weak quality, indecisiveness. The social expectations of a gender differ from culture to culture.

I didn't mean that a male would be faster to act or necessarily more impulsive. I was more implying that male, more often than not, will use an action to get a point across when he needs to. A female on the other hand would be more apt to use speech or a certain attitude to convey the same point.

Ego680 wrote:

I didn't mean that a male would be faster to act or necessarily more impulsive. I was more implying that male, more often than not, will use an action to get a point across when he needs to. A female on the other hand would be more apt to use speech or a certain attitude to convey the same point.

Do you doubt my masculinity for choosing words over actions?

Most women in the Midwest that I know are rather vicious.

Like, no you're missing the point. It's more subtle than that. It's not "Grr I'm angry therefor I'll throw a stool at you" VS "We should talk about how angry I am".

No, I got your point, I'm just pointing out that it likely does not stand across most cultures. Which is why you should look to the culture first. There is probably little to no relationship between a person's gender and whether they are a tactile or audible problem solver that is not instilled by their social setting.

Using a very generalized and probably improper example: A Western boy may be taught to act first. He may be encouraged indirectly through the things he observes and is exposed to, that a physical(not necessarily violent) option is expected to be sought by him first. Someone keeps kicking his chair, he moves his chair up, or in a more assertive action, pushes the other persons chair back.

An Eastern boy my be taught to think and discuss first. He may be encouraged that "it is expect of a young man to be thoughtful and wise before he acts." He may ask the person kicking his chair "Why are you kicking my chair" or in a more assertive action, ask or tell the person to stop.

There are infinitely more vectors and components working in the human mind that better explain our actions or lack there of than gender.

I had three main male characters on Amia:

- Auron - mostly an arsehat, of very ambiguous ways, always loving to fool with people's minds especially about his sexual preferences, blunt. Very, very arrogant. But could be very kind to those who were important to him (they were quite few). And even then, he would more often slap, then only later help heal the same wound. Wild when it came to kill things.

- Rizzen - fatherly, always worried about whether or not his friends were comfortable and happy. Always diplomatic, no matter how fierce his foe (except PvM, when it is rare that a monster you are fighting will want to talk >_>). Violence would be used only as a last resort and he still would rather disable than kill, for he thought that people could be reasonable once their bloodlust was gone.

- Daos - chivalrous. Regarding battle, he was like Rizzen: violence only as a last resort. He is more likely to attempt talking someone out of their evil ways than outright kill them. And yet, he never believed in direct aid of others, always thinking it is "best to teach how to fish than to give the fish". If he "lectured" someone and they were still doing wrong, he would not be as patient anymore.

Not sure "how manly" was their behaviour, but that was the way I always RPed them. Seemed to have worked.

At one time, both Auron and Daos had "emo" moments, each having its own reason: the former for being a monster, the latter for not being half as strong as he used to be, since he is cursed.

I think it bears saying that psychologically speaking there's not much of a difference between men and women. The big differences come in sociological terms. Therefore, the real differences between men and women could be said to lie only in how society (and thus our views of the roles of the genders) views masculinity vs. femininity. If one was so persuaded, we could even find a various amount of differences in how men and women are viewed between the Yanks, Euros and Aussies here on Amia, much less how the genders are viewed in the multitude of races present in Faerun.

Quote:

logical thinker yet a nagging urge to hit people (mainly elves)

I agree with this statement. I however assume it only applys to human males and maybe dwarfs

My advice is to just go with the flow and to not overthink it.

Go with the Johnny Bravo cartoon lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnGnl-UElVA

This thread is one of the many reason I have missed the peeps of Amia and how they so often have made me smile along the years.

Jan wrote:

Brawling, beer and boobs.

You cannot rp a man properly as a woman and it goes vica versa. However, you should try it I guess

Spend more time with men IRL, and observe how they act.

Jan wrote:

Ravenousfaerie wrote:

So what in your opinion are common goals for a man specifically in the Amia setting?

Brawling, beer and boobs.

And soccer.. oh wait.

jimbono1 wrote:

Spend more time with men IRL, and observe how they act.

Men act differently when you add a woman to the equation.

.. I don't believe I am over thinking it all. Okay maybe.. but I do that to all my characters. I don't make them on a whim.

I beg to differ Lutra- I know a few males who I think roleplay a woman great.

Sure if you strip away all of the social pressures of genders.. male and females are similar still but we made those pressures so I just can't 'ignore' them. My opinion? I feel different from a man, not because of the role I chose in life but mostly how I am treated. It exists no matter what culture you put on it.

Again, thanks for all of the comments.

Ego680 wrote:

I was more implying that male, more often than not, will use an action to get a point across when he needs to.

Painting with very broad strokes, males are more likely to be prescriptive, physical and competitive.

Figure out what needs to be done and do it in order to get on with the next thing (thus the male claim to more logical thought processes). In a pseudo-medieval environment particularly, that will usually mean dealing with an issue directly (which in no way precludes the use of guile and subtley). Woman can be very nasty and spiteful to those they don't like - men are more likely just to tell someone to f--- off.

In general, however, I suggest the following:

Caldera3 wrote:

My advice is to just go with the flow and to not overthink it.

And never ask for directions.

Same as a female character, except you have less sex with women.

Lutra wrote:

You cannot rp a man properly as a woman and it goes vica versa. However, you should try it I guess

Faulty logic.
I've RPed as a female character many times. And you'd be surprised how many people, including women, I've fooled. I'm not on Shrit'yrrstra that much since I made her, since I've been so wrapped up in Tyrus' life, else I'd give an Amia example or something.

Ravenousfaerie wrote:

I'll get straight to the point.. What goes on in the mind of a man? Of course I have my own bias opinions all that are female angsty driven. So what in your opinion are common goals for a man specifically in the Amia setting? I know some would be the same as a female adventurer but I am more looking for a male perspective.

In response to this, I'm trying to think of what goes through my mind when I RP the opposite gender, but it's hard to say. Character concept has a lot to do with it, but you cannot beat practice. If it works for you, then cool. If not, just be prepared to toss the character aside. Make a character you honestly want, RP the hell out of it, and if it you think that your character's man card needs to be revoked then just ask someone (OOCly of course haha) for advice/thoughts or shelve him until you feel ready to work with him more.

I'd definitely say I am more comfortable RPing male characters, since it's the natural thing for being I'm male, but I have no problem with female characters. It's been said, but what it boils down to is making a character concept and rolling with it. If you don't want the guy to be feminine, don't emote like you would as a female character (ie no *giggles* or *blushes* or anything that you would immediately think of as 'feminine'). Heck, you could make him a jackass since that's not hard to RP XD

If'n you want, hit me up on MSN if you want to mull things over. I'm glad to help with this sort of thing. RPing is fun

Also I'd like to point out that, if it's not been said yet, don't let anyone tell you that this cannot be done, or that you shouldn't do something like this. Dunno why some people get all freaked when they RP with a male character played by a woman (and the other way around). This goes to anyone playing an opposite gender character, btw.

again I agree, if you get into the role enough you can probably make dm's think your the opposite gender >_> I did.

Naivatkal wrote:

Lutra wrote:

You cannot rp a man properly as a woman and it goes vica versa. However, you should try it I guess

Faulty logic.
I've RPed as a female character many times. And you'd be surprised how many people, including women, I've fooled. I'm not on Shrit'yrrstra that much since I made her, since I've been so wrapped up in Tyrus' life, else I'd give an Amia example or something.

Forgive me, I did not judge your rp skills or anything. What I mean is that a little intuitive skill is enough to find out if the player is a male or a female behind the character. Since we all come to play and chill on Amia, we do not focus on such a thing.

Last edited by Glyph on Sun, Mar 20 2011, 16:42 PM, edited 2 times in total.

as I literally just stated, your wrong.

ed: I don't mean this in an offencive way I just mean it is literally impossible unless your psychic, if you don't believe me hang out in the forest and tell me which of the girls are infact so

ed2: also vise versa for the guys.

No no, don't apologize for anything! I wasn't implying you were doing anything of the sort, just pointing out it can be done

"You cannot RP an elf properly as a human and vice-versa."

I'm usually pretty good at guessing the gender of the player, for some reason. I've also spotted a trend that the ones I do get wrong are almost always played by... male gay players. Not each and every time, but often enough to form a pattern.

I don't think there's anything supernatural going on here, but it could be for the same reason some people are very good at guessing others' sexual orientation. Yes, even via text.

But, to play a man: play a character and slap on some stereotypical male traits.

Watch spike TV for like, a week straight. Rent full metal jacket. Watch Bad Lieutenant (The Harvey one.) Then balance it out with the cooking channel to give your PC that sensitive artistic vibe which will get him chicks.

thinking with your wang and not with your brain is a good way of figuring out the average guys motive. ranges in all forms of intelligence can be applied to this style of thinking. following examples given are random but involve something in a typical males head which usually stems from the testosterone factory.

showoff: "i wanna kill goblins so i can be strong and show my muscles off to all the ladies."
deceitful: "if i get her drunk i bet she'd give me the information, heck i might even bed her."
diabolical: "i must study this magic so i can become almighty and reign terror on my lessers, and take their women."
cowardly: "if i get cut down by these kobolds i may never enjoy a womans bed again."

not really the best but this idea can be applied to many areas of a characters attitude, even if it wont judge his story at all, thinking with the trouser snake comes along in any mans life at one point or another. ask any guy and he'll give you example of that. lol.

A male character will buy Men are from Mars Women are from Venus and then stick it on the shelf in his cave after leafing through it once.

How to roleplay a man hmmm..

"Conan.What is best in life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women."

nuff said lol! :wink:

Roleplaying a man

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