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[ 29 posts ] |
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666WaysToHell
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 Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 18:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Western Australia
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Okay, there has been some.. 'discussions' about child casters. Some players are slightly out of touch about this and unsure as to what a minimal age to cast at least a single cantrip, whether it be Divine or Arcane to be at. Just thought might be good idea to discuss this and (hopefully) get some level of clarification on the topic!
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Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.
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hendrack
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 18:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Child characters need to be requested, all you'll get in this topic are peanut gallery opinions.
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666WaysToHell
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 18:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Western Australia
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Well that was one hell of a thread killer! >_> Should make fun to see some of the responses though! 
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Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 18:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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hendrack wrote: Child characters need to be requested.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 18:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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On second thought, I will unlock it, but that and hendrack's post really are the end of the topic. There's no discussion to be had.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Glyph
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 18:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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there is no set rule that I can find readily, however I assume wizards would be restricted by the time it takes to learn to read.
In theory sorcs, druids, clerics, etc, could 'do magic' from any age.
I also assume you mean humanoid races, magical type races are a different ball game for this question imo.
also what hendrack said, if it is approved, if a build is being planned, the most you will be able to emulate is a familiars presence and a few spells like light. Interesting question I gotta say.
ed: woah on the lockage, I was still typing >_> maybe lore thread then if this is not a request?
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Nivo
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 18:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Location: East of Elsewhere, West of Sometime
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Yes. Child PCs must be requested. However, a standard rule of thumb with arcane magic and kids.
Sorcerers: Powers tend to begin manifesting some time after the onset of puberty. In mostly awkward and chaotic ways. Even then they do not have the control over their magic that a 1st level sorcerer has.
Wizards: Learning magic requires study and devotion of time. An apprentice to a wizard may begin their education (read: being taught the rudimentary basics of the theory of magic, mathematics, etc while sweeping floors and cleaning spell-component jars) as a child. However, they will not be able of even the most simple cantrips for years. Suffice to say, early adult-hood for wizards to begin casting spells, at the least.
Thus, children do not cast spells. Be they wizard or sorcerer.
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Playing:
Marcus Valis
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 18:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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hendrack wrote: Child characters need to be requested, all you'll get in this topic are peanut gallery opinions. It's possible that this is purely a source of speculation and RP, not someone RPing a child caster. I think the point here would be to just find out the lore behind this. Could be best to ask this in the lore thread instead, if that i the intention Edit: Holy replies Batman!
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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 18:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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[quote="Glyph"]there is no set rule that I can find readily, however I assume wizards would be restricted by the time it takes to learn to read.
In theory sorcs, druids, clerics, etc, could 'do magic' from any age.
quote]
in theory no, druids take a long time to learn about nature and how to pray for thier spells its not something simply thrown in thier head,
in many ways its akin to wizards, the same goes for clerics whom spend a long time studying thier gods the cosmos and learn how to cast the spells and how to focus thier devotion, it takes time to learn how to cast spells a long time..sorcs come naturally to it so they can learn and master it earlier...but to think a child can master and harness thier innate abilities and channel it into a storm of fury..well it just seems stupid to me honerstly, or a sorc would automatically be level 30 at birth..since by that logic all sorcs knows everything by birth
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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PHB's (and other supplemental's) Age charts. That is all there is to go by. Otherwise, it is as was said before: Request to the DMs
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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
Last edited by DustSpray101 on Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:04 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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hells come to think of it, i cant think of any class a child could do, they all take alot of training, and a child would breake down physically or mentally doing most of them.
Fighters need extreme training with weapons, a child would barely be able to wield any kind of weapon with any kind of force.
Monks...same as fighters, but add a whole life of studies into self calm and so forth.
rangers...same as fighters, but add a life of learning about nature
rouges...same as fighters, but add ontop of that a intimate knowledge of weaknesses in peoples defences to deliver sneak attacks
paladins...well that kinda explains itself i think
barbarians...yea...right...i dont see this even remotely as a barbarian requires a load of strenght and physical personality not to mention a special spirit that basically needs to be trained into them from birth until adulthood
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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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DustSpray101 wrote: PHB's (and other supplemental's) Age charts. That is all there is to go by. and it says you need to be of a certain age to be a level 1 of a class does it not?
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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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Kraniumbrud wrote: DustSpray101 wrote: PHB's (and other supplemental's) Age charts. That is all there is to go by. and it says you need to be of a certain age to be a level 1 of a class does it not? To be considered lvl 1. Yessir. Don't have my book with me at work so someone else will need to give a page number. Age charts give a base Adventuring age, then + xDx dice where X is determined by the amount of training required for a particular class.
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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
Last edited by DustSpray101 on Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:11 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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and let me take a wild guess..none of them says you can become a level one from before adulthood?
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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You are considered a level 1 commoner or an NPC class.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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just out of curiosity what are the starting stat decreases for being a child?
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-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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Tormak is correct.
Amia does have nifty belts for enforcing and gimping children though. I remember playing a Smartass frightened little Half Orc child for Bobo's hardcore alternate beginnings plot. Goblins could kill us in one successful hit and if not for fate itself playing a hand, we all should have died. The world is super dangerous when you are that small and can't dish more damage than 5 on a critical hit. In the end we all survived in varying degrees, though poor Bruton got part of his brain gobbled by a mind flayer.
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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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jimbono1
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Location: England
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Nivo wrote: Yes. Child PCs must be requested. However, a standard rule of thumb with arcane magic and kids.
Sorcerers: Powers tend to begin manifesting some time after the onset of puberty. In mostly awkward and chaotic ways. Even then they do not have the control over their magic that a 1st level sorcerer has.
Wizards: Learning magic requires study and devotion of time. An apprentice to a wizard may begin their education (read: being taught the rudimentary basics of the theory of magic, mathematics, etc while sweeping floors and cleaning spell-component jars) as a child. However, they will not be able of even the most simple cantrips for years. Suffice to say, early adult-hood for wizards to begin casting spells, at the least.
Thus, children do not cast spells. Be they wizard or sorcerer. What about Karsus? _________________ Khaldun Menetnashte KhalfaniVictor WilkinsonSilent2001 wrote: Jimbono1 is my favourite. ^totally not a lie or anything.
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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jimbono1 wrote: Nivo wrote: Yes. Child PCs must be requested. However, a standard rule of thumb with arcane magic and kids.
Sorcerers: Powers tend to begin manifesting some time after the onset of puberty. In mostly awkward and chaotic ways. Even then they do not have the control over their magic that a 1st level sorcerer has.
Wizards: Learning magic requires study and devotion of time. An apprentice to a wizard may begin their education (read: being taught the rudimentary basics of the theory of magic, mathematics, etc while sweeping floors and cleaning spell-component jars) as a child. However, they will not be able of even the most simple cantrips for years. Suffice to say, early adult-hood for wizards to begin casting spells, at the least.
Thus, children do not cast spells. Be they wizard or sorcerer. What about Karsus? karsus was gifted beyond belief, if your approved to start a char with a starting int in the high 20's then perhaps you can discuss it with the dm's
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Yossarin
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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jimbono1 wrote: Nivo wrote: Yes. Child PCs must be requested. However, a standard rule of thumb with arcane magic and kids.
Sorcerers: Powers tend to begin manifesting some time after the onset of puberty. In mostly awkward and chaotic ways. Even then they do not have the control over their magic that a 1st level sorcerer has.
Wizards: Learning magic requires study and devotion of time. An apprentice to a wizard may begin their education (read: being taught the rudimentary basics of the theory of magic, mathematics, etc while sweeping floors and cleaning spell-component jars) as a child. However, they will not be able of even the most simple cantrips for years. Suffice to say, early adult-hood for wizards to begin casting spells, at the least.
Thus, children do not cast spells. Be they wizard or sorcerer. What about Karsus? Oh yes, of course, let the extremely rare and "not suitable for players" exceptions to the norm dictate the power level of your PCs. Disgusting.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Karsus cast his first spell when he was 2 years old, according to Netheril, the Archwizards and the Return of Shade. I actually dislike that a lot because you have to do one of two things - accept the implication that 2 year olds in the Realms are substantially more developed (enough so to form the precise sounds and gestures for spells) to have the vocal and motor control to cast; or accept that Karsus was even more of an exception to the rule by being an overly developed child for no particular reason.
In "modern times" of the Realms, it isn't uncommon for children (not toddlers) in Halruaa to be sent to schools for magic. I don't believe the books ever cite a youngest age this can be done, but the implied age seems to be about 6 and up.
Ed: Typos.
Last edited by LetumLux on Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:47 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Grymia
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Have to agree with Yossi, and how did Karsus get used as a valid arguement for the average PC child being able to cast magic? Err.. no.
Not just no, but HELLS THE (Censored) NO.
Child PCs are, at best Requested and played with very great care or the fodder of Alternate Starting campaigns.
And addendum after LetumLux's post.. I think that was part of the point of that , that being to make Karsus even more an exception.
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Yossarin
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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LetumLux wrote: or accept that Karsus was even more of an exception to the rule by being an overly developed child for no particular published reason. Fixed.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Well, we all know he was some Deus Ex Wesley Crusher on steroids. I suppose that's "reason" enough.
In general, if it were up to me to make a blanket statement on child spell casters, I would say that for both Divine and Arcane it would require an age that the child can competently satisfy the Verbal and Somatic components. They can be touched by a God since they were in utero, but it wouldn't be until they could channel that power (i.e., actually cast) until they were physical capable of doing so. For some races this would be younger, for some individuals it might be younger (Mozart was remarkable for his age in a way that could easily parallel a magic-using child.)
Last edited by LetumLux on Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:54 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:52 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Yossarin wrote: LetumLux wrote: or accept that Karsus was even more of an exception to the rule by being an overly developed child for no particular published reason. Fixed. I always blamed it on being conceived within the field of a Mythallar. *nod* That, and the fact that the developers wanted a Mary Sue, Icarus-like figure to validate the changes made to spells during the edition transition. _________________  You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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jimbono1
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Location: England
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Whether he was an exception or not is irrelevant. He stated that No child could cast Magic. I disproved that. I did not say that every child could do that, so do not assume that i did.
_________________ Khaldun Menetnashte KhalfaniVictor WilkinsonSilent2001 wrote: Jimbono1 is my favourite. ^totally not a lie or anything.
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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by all accounts karsus couldnt be counted as a child..because he could cast magic at the age of 2, something that would prove him far more intelligent and extremely fast at learning hence...he was a adult in spirit
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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jimbono1 wrote: Whether he was an exception or not is irrelevant. He stated that No child could cast Magic. I disproved that. I did not say that every child could do that, so do not assume that i did. Your example is untenable and irrelevant in the context of the discussion, so no ,you disproved nothing except to show that you think your characters can be used as examples along with Karsus, which they can't. Anyways, this topic served its purpose, as I stated at first. no reason to keep it open.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Grymia
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Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2011, 19:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Karsus was a story-device for the setting, not a typical character. I'd REALLY suggest trying to find more examples then just him if you wish to prove your point.
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