AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Last edited by PosImpos on Wed, Mar 16 2011, 15:23 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks for the response. You're right, I got confused regarding the battleaxe.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of DC would be needed for WotB to be difficult to resist?

Also, is there a listing somewhere of which kinds of summons are created by Mummy Dust depending on alignment?

40 or 41 is the number dedicated casters achieve; easy maths really. 36 can be awfully handy as well, mind. And remember the power of the ONE.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

As for the summon, it's awesome. Thanks to Moshing and his coworkers, it's been tailored a bit to provide a befitting summon for each alignment. They're all equal in strength (I lie), so it doesn't really matter which one you pick. Just opt for whatever you deem the best for your character. Of course you're allowed to use reason in your choice, for instance, if your character knows himself to be a little too squishy in battle, he may pick a summon that is very defensive, and he may know that golems and undead can take a hit.

I'd just like to point out shapechange doesn't hold a candle to true dragonshape, and apparently dragonshapes without 10 levels of shifter suffer a loss of DC and damage. according to ze nwn wiki.

there is also a way to settle the above argument, epic summoning battle ala ffX style xD while I believe they are balanced the fact that nearly everyone picks marut makes me wonder if by balanced hes the one with the AC and thus best choice to tank with...

personally I was going for the outsiders because i've heard good things about that too, and it fits the RP side of things too. with one toon. not to even begin to mention you should pick the correct type if you plan on reskinning.

dragonshape is notoriously hard to achieve in 30 levels from what I have heard and tried, if you start at 18 wisdom your likely to get there -at- level 30. good luck

ed: your epic feats will consist mainly of great wisdom and nothing much more. I managed great wisdom 5 i think...construct and dragonshape.

ITT: Prescia is a powergaming douchebag who encourages people to ignore their RP for cookiecutter bullshit

Yeah, dragonshape is better. Hard.. well. It it logical to achieve the greatest of powers at the end of your journey and after rigorous training.

I wonder if someone someday will make an aasimar druid (with wings of course) who can turn into an olympus dragon..
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Olympus_Dr ... e_Creature)

Had to make it.. sorry. Best for dedicated rp'ers I figure, since it takes a few requests and dedication to achieve all this. I fancy the concept, although I am not 100% certain it is waterproof lorewise. Perhaps someone will use the idea someday..

Druid 24/CoT 4/Rogue 1

Start Wis: 18~20
Race: Aasimar
Alignment: Neutral Good

1 D - Feats: Weapon Focus: Scimitar (there is one with a divine glow easily obtainable by druids), Extend Spell
2 D
3 D - Feat: Empower Spell
4 D - Wis: 21
5 D
6 D - Feat: Spell Focus: Evocation
7 D
8 D - Wis: 22
9 D - Feat: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
10 D
11 D
12 D - Feat: Spell Focus: Conjuration, Wis: 23
13 D
14 D
15 D - Feat: Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
16 D - Wis: 24
17 D
18 D - Feat: Knockdown/Improved Critical: Unarmed/Blindfight.. something..
19 D
20 D - Wis: 25
21 D - Feat: Mummy Dust: Celestial Avenger (outsider)
22 D
23 D
24 CoT - Feat: Great Wisdom I, Wis: 27
25 CoT - Feat: Great Wisdom II
26 CoT
27 R - Feat: Armor Skin, Skill dump
28 CoT - Feat: Great Wisdom III, Wis: 30, Skill dump
29 D - Feat: Dragonshape, Skill dump

1), Olympus Dragons are homebrew
2), That, good sir, is a White Great Wyrm

About your proposed build, as much as I like the feat myself, is there any particular reason you're Choosing Empower Spell over Maximize? Maximize usually works best for classes that have to slot spells. A druid does't have the spells per day to play the numbers game. And as druid is a great class for buffing yourself and others, maximize makes sure you're getting the most bang for your buck every time.

The only case in which I'd recommend a druid taking empower, is when you're spell based and already have Maximze anyway. And you're kind of spread out as it already is.

I thought it looked similar to the white, lol. I was searching for celestial dragons and stumbled over the olympus. Well, there goes that idea of turning into a celestial dragon.. *snaps his fingers*.

Regarding the max vs. empower. I actually don't see the use of maximize anywhere reasonable except bull's strength. Empower will get your near five anyhow, and can even net you 7 if lucky. There are plenty of good spells which are evocation and conjuration and empower does the trick neatly.

Maximized call lightning is fine but not worth it, because the 6th level spell slot has lots of other spells you will be using, such as stonehold and regeneration to name a few. Same goes for flamestrike. I'd rather keep my 7th level slots for healing, true seeing a lots of empowered ice storms, which do very nice damage. Maximized ice storm is a no no, since you want extended aura of vitality, premonition, sunburst and bombardment on the 8th. There are no spells to maximize at level 6 (except crumble, but how often do you use that?). You can however empower firestorm which will do 30d6 damage, half of it divine which is neat against the occasional undead. I however do prefer earthquake and storm of vengeance.

There really isn't any real use for maximize for a druid, unless you wish to max all your cure wounds spells, but it is kinda redundant because you probably have a high heal skill and can heal faster and more effectively that way, if not by regeneration, heal and mass heal.

I would go as far as saying that you can do with extend alone, buuut.. I do like to empower certain spells, mainly bull's strength, call lightning and ice storm.. depends on the situation.

Celestial Half Dragons?

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Golden_Protector

One of the coolest things to live on the plane of Heliopolis.

That bearded human face is creepy

Would be surprised if you had that in the module.

If someone were to aim for a celestial dragon would a gold dragon not fit better than that freak with beard?

I've been fiddling with the concept of cashing in my free rebuild to dump some unnecessary points and feats in hope of getting as much hide/move silent that I can.

The only real requirements I have at the moment are 20 monk levels, hips, epic dodge, and if it fits in the build, at least one epic skill focus (hide/ms). I'm at peace with the fact that my AB will always be shit, haha. I like being the quick, sneaky one that no one can kill. It's how Zephyr rolls, and I have 29 levels (ecl+1) to do it with.

Any thoughts? I'm awful with builds >.>

20 Monk 5 Shadow Dancer 4 Fighter.

20 Monk 6 SD 3 Rogue/Assassin

21 monk/6 sd/2 fighter perhaps? I dunno what you would fancy for the remaining two levels. If it fits your character somehow, go 20 monk/6 sd/3 druid

Gives you +2 ab and +4 hide/ms in wilderness areas. You have to rp as a druid though, soooo.. ya. 21 monk for 70% increased movement speed instead of 60%.

I never make monks btw.

Unless you are nabbing epic weapon spec or extra attacks its not worth going 2 fighter IMHO. Rogue is better just for UMD.

I have heard many good things about monk/assassin/SD (10 each)

also I agree, the fighter 2 is kinda pointless unless your really trying to squeeze the AB

ed: after reading your descript on what your after i'd go with monk rouge sd. didn't spot that you wanted 20 monk at first, enjoy ze shiny eyes =D

TormakSaber wrote:

ITT: Prescia is a powergaming douchebag who encourages people to ignore their RP for cookiecutter bullshit

Thanks, shows I know my stuff eh?

Glyph wrote:

I believe they are balanced the fact that nearly everyone picks marut makes me wonder if by balanced hes the one with the AC and thus best choice to tank with...

Nearly 500 hp + crit/sneak immune. 'Nuff said.
RP wise, it's not undead so nobody will have issues with it

Oh for Christ's sake, people. Pick a summon based on the character you're playing, not what's best. They were awesome enough to give us a variety, so take advantage of it.

You know what time this topic got a name change.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

ITT: Prescia is a powergaming douchebag who encourages people to ignore their RP for cookiecutter bullshit

Thanks, shows I know my stuff eh?

Glyph wrote:

I believe they are balanced the fact that nearly everyone picks marut makes me wonder if by balanced hes the one with the AC and thus best choice to tank with...

Nearly 500 hp + crit/sneak immune. 'Nuff said.
RP wise, it's not undead so nobody will have issues with it

Things like this make me die a little on the inside.
*points to the side* Powergaming servers are that way, people.

ugh, literally, I ask are they varied or equal and this happens.

can we move on to the next build question?

ed: I apologise 'specially to chris who I believe was involved in making the epics in question, and will not bring up the subject again so help me god, and or whatever else is up there or lack thereof.

Doesn't make me die at all, means testing in game allows for faster balancing than a small tester cross-section.

Luckily folk like Svensk and Prescia provide me that cross-section of people who take things for the power which allows me the mobility of not having to waste the time of more cleverer people in testing these things.

I prefer the feedback glyph, just remember that when nerfs happen its the aforementioned people that caused them. Responsible players are responsible.

Cheers
- Mosh

Thanks Chris, it's good to know you're reading all this. :wink:

Btw, didn't you change Marut to Geared Golem so it's less lore-bucking?
So now it's even more neutral and more people can take it and still sleep soundly at night.
I recommend a nerf for the EMD: Construct.

The recent summon changes originate from Shads, you're barking up the wrong tree here. Not that there's anything wrong with the changes, just saying that your powergaming suggestions didn't really hit and drop now.

It's more safe lorewise, due to necromancers picking it I believe.. marut + dominated vampire is smelly. However it has been nerfed. -5 AC.

Yes, I read the other threads too.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53949

MoshingChris wrote:

Fine with Mosh. I may actually nullify the inevitable to 'Generic Amia-canon' Construct because its proven time and again to be a bloody hassle.

But you don't read the dev forums.

Edit: Actually, the credits of this particular summon lore seem to go to Gravemaskin, who was the first to suggest a Geared Guardian.

Not that any of it matters, I'm just sick of seeing these jabs pop up in every thread. That applies to everyone, though.

To be perfectly honest I no longer believe this thread is fulfilling its intended purpose. The only reason we keep it open is it keeps the rest of the boards clean limiting collateral damage.

What is the intended purpose?
Is it not to teach people how to create mechanically effective characters suited for the Amian setting?
Stuff like how much spot you should have?
How much discipline you need for pvp?

While it borders on common sense, I thought I'd ask if a person still needs an 'optomized' build to actually perform as a 'bad guy' on this server.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

What is the intended purpose?
Is it not to teach people how to create mechanically effective characters suited for the Amian setting?
Stuff like how much spot you should have?
How much discipline you need for pvp?

I'd put money on it being for people to come up with an idea for a character, ie what you want them to be like, and having others give suggestions how to make it possible. It's not about "take this summon because it's crit immune", it's about sprinkling a bit more flavor into the character that you're here to roleplay.

Last edited by PosImpos on Thu, Mar 17 2011, 18:31 PM, edited 1 time in total.

How does this build look for a fairly standard paladin / fighter / rogue build good for soloing PvM through to lvl 30? I was reading in one of the other build threads and that combo was referenced as a very strong / easy build to level.

23 paladin / 6 fighter / 1 rogue
Human
Lawful good

Pre-epic:
16 paladin / 4 fighter

Level progression:
1-4 fighter
5-22 paladin
23-24 fighter
25-29 paladin
30 rogue (skill dump in tumble, umd, spot)

Skills:
Discipline
Tumble (dump @ 30)
Spot (dump @ 30)
UMD (dump @ 30)
plus whatever else there's room for (maybe taunt or persuade since they are CHA based? maybe heal for easier soloing?)

Ability Scores:
Str – 14 (6) + 4 = 18
Dex – 8 (0)
Con – 14 (6)
Int – 14 (6)
Wis – 14 (6)
Cha – 14 (6) + 3 = 17 + 1 (GC) = 18

Regular feats:
1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30
Bonus fighter feats:
1, 2, 4, 6
Human bonus feat:
1
Paladin epic bonus feat:
23

17 feats total
12 pre-epic
6 epic

Pre-epic:
Toughness (human bonus)
Weapon focus – long sword (fighter bonus)
Knockdown (fighter bonus)
Weapon Specialization - long sword (fighter bonus)
Improved Critical
Improved Knockdown
Blind Fight
Divine Strength
Divine Shield
Power attack
Cleave
Great cleave

Epic:
Epic Weapon Focus – long sword @ 21
Epic Prowess @ 24
Epic Weapon Specialization – long sword (fighter bonus) @ 24
Epic Toughness @ 27
Armor Skin @ 29 (paladin bonus)
Great Charisma @ 30

Last edited by Glyph on Thu, Mar 17 2011, 18:31 PM, edited 1 time in total.

yup that could work nicely, it seams to me to be a build making the best of smite evil and raw damage. umd and tumble dumping at the last minute is all well and good but god forbid you ever get level drained

as for what this thread is for I think the aasimar druid gem up yonder *points up* says it all.

ed: scratch the smite evil part, I see no epic feats chosen to improve said smiting.

Arcadence wrote:

While it borders on common sense, I thought I'd ask if a person still needs an 'optomized' build to actually perform as a 'bad guy' on this server.

Only if your idea of a successful bad guy centers chiefly around PvP.

Which in my own opinion, does not make successful villain, necessarily. Being a proficient "evil" combatant doesn't so much get you great recognition as successful bad guy as it gives you an IC reputation for being a prick that people tend not to want to piss off.

Not saying you cannot have both a great villain and a great build, but most of your "performing" as a bad guy should not have to center around how many people you can beat in PvP. Its based upon your RP and interactions more than anything else.

I'd just like to add, there was only one person in particular I can recall saying something to the effect of "an optimized build is needed to be a villain." That was his interpretation. You shouldn't take it as a rule of thumb for the server.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Not saying you cannot have both a great villain and a great build, but most of your "performing" as a bad guy should not have to center around how many people you can beat in PvP. Its based upon your RP and interactions more than anything else.

I consider this my mistake last year. Then again I'm still jaded over being unable to stop an angry mob that I couldn't fight back against that killed me because someone said "Get him!" Puts a damper on things.

Wheeling this back around, I'm having a hard time fitting blackguard into a class combination, mostly because <insert even harper scout> would be a better investment. Is it viable to roll it into rogue/assassin, or is that just barking up the wrong tree?

the trick with 'bad' characters is not the build but how you use it, how you go about the day. lawful evil? use the justice system to your advantage, chaotic? go wild, but do so in a jesters costume until you have the power >=D

of course this is but one suggestion. there are many many ways of going about it. if you try to walk about cordor with a bone arm on show its likely someone is going to shout get em, and I know from experience that it is vaguely agitating >_> but try to take it IC not ooc.

it also helps when the 'good' characters don't jump the gun.

ed: of course walking about in cordor with a bone arm is a matter for the 'do not do infront of the guards they are not really idle, poke a DM to continue' rule.

When you're going to play overly evil, can you fault someone for playing overly good?

In any case, I've not attempted a Blackguard on a level 30 server, but I did have some success on a level 20 with rogue/Fighter/BG. I'd imagine that the same would apply with 10 more levels. A str based sneak damage whore...

Rogue 10 / Fighter 4 / BG 16 for the Epic Fiend? I might just be pulling it out of my ass, but it seems like it would work.

10 Rogue/4 Fighter/16 BG or 12 Fighter/16 BG/2 Rogue are my favourites.

I'd like to point out that Dramatic's not the only one at fault here. Her/his motives to post stuff like highlighting certain bits out of context, were to emphasise that the summon is overpowered and should be changed. I doubt it truly encourages anyone to pick it, as the players of Amia are resourceful enough to get the information outside the forums if they wanted it even the slightest. Her/his actions only go against the ethics of this thread, but it doesn't do any good to flame her/him here.

I would have rather kept to good taste and told her/him that s/he well knows it is against the etiquette of the thread, and that it would be better if s/he took her/his humour, and attempts to speed up the balancing process elsewhere. And yes, I'm such a moral cop and wnb-Jesus, but I feel like everyone here (especially the most frequent posters) should behave correctly. You can't achieve anything positive by calling people powerbuilding douchebags. With all love, of course.

MoshingChris wrote:

Responsible players are responsible.

I have, perhaps more of a lore question than a build one but it involves the build.

I have begun a new build starting out with a wizard cleric combo, the reason I chose cleric is to enable the use of detect evil/good/etc aswell as to some extent following the descript of the class I will be taking as a third. no prizes for guessing.

anyway, nwn wiki states that a level 1 cleric should have 3 cantrips and 2 level 1 spells, however, my character does not have any level one spells, does this mean I am prevented from using detect evil/etc from a build standpoint or is it kool with you guys to let that one fly? I have zero need for any more cleric levels other than for this spell mechanically, and for RP flavour.

I also understand its a PNP spell and people could reply with 'you detect a hint of strawberrys' or some such instead of playing along, but i'd rather get a yey or nay before I start detecting good on people.

MoshingChris wrote:

Stuff about powergaming

Two options, Either i'll give you a honest answer here, Or in a PM.
Your choice.

mind if I ask what the nutral Outsider summon is?

A gitzherai.

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47046

here is the thread showing a variety of the summon changes avaliable. there are no lists of stats however, as has been said these should be discovered by actually summoning the thing, or, watching someone else do so and explaining the benefits of ''insert epic summon here''

Third from the left is the gitzherai

You can post to a PM or here or whatever Svensk.

Glyph wrote:

I have, perhaps more of a lore question than a build one but it involves the build.

I have begun a new build starting out with a wizard cleric combo, the reason I chose cleric is to enable the use of detect evil/good/etc aswell as to some extent following the descript of the class I will be taking as a third. no prizes for guessing.

anyway, nwn wiki states that a level 1 cleric should have 3 cantrips and 2 level 1 spells, however, my character does not have any level one spells, does this mean I am prevented from using detect evil/etc from a build standpoint or is it kool with you guys to let that one fly? I have zero need for any more cleric levels other than for this spell mechanically, and for RP flavour.

I also understand its a PNP spell and people could reply with 'you detect a hint of strawberrys' or some such instead of playing along, but i'd rather get a yey or nay before I start detecting good on people.

That's a dirty combo for something that can easily be swayed (PnP spell usage allows for PnP blocking by default) or denied outright. I'd recommend against it on general principal.

I saw posted somewhere in one of these build threads reference to a dex-based Barb / rogue build broken down into 16 barb / 13 rogue / 1 ranger. I thought this sounded like an interesting class combo . . . is it one that works well? I attempted to put together the build (though I've yet to test). Also, how does that 1 level of ranger work? Is that taken @ 30 so as to avoid exp penalty or what?

16 barb / 13 rogue / 1 ranger

1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30
rogue bonus @ 10, 13
human bonus @ 1

14 total

stats:

str - 14 (4)
dex - 16 (10) + 7 = 23 + 1 + 1 GRT DEX = 25
con - 14 (6)
int - 14 (6)
wis - 8
cha - 8

dual-wield short swords or handaxes

feats:
improved evasion (rogue bonus)
defensive roll (rogue bonus)
weapon finesse
weapon focus
improved critical
toughness
knockdown
improved knockdown
blind fight
stealthy

epic weapon focus @ 21
epic dodge @ 30
great dexterity 1 @ 24
great dexterity 2 @ 27

skills (256)

tumble (33)
spot (33)
hide (33)
pick lock (32)
move silently (33)
UMD (30)
discipline (32)
some other other skill (30)

Drop Strength, bump up Dexterity to 18. Take Terrifying Rage and only one Great DEX to get you to 26 base Dexterity.

Drop Stealthy and Toughness, both useless for you (and mainly in general).

The Ranger in epic is used to give you a bonus epic feat, which ideally goes into Epic Prowess or Epic Weapon Focus. Take Armor Skin, also.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Drop Strength, bump up Dexterity to 18. Take Terrifying Rage and only one Great DEX to get you to 26 base Dexterity.

Drop Stealthy and Toughness, both useless for you (and mainly in general).

The Ranger in epic is used to give you a bonus epic feat, which ideally goes into Epic Prowess or Epic Weapon Focus. Take Armor Skin, also.

Thanks for the feedback. Since the build gets ranger so late, is there any point in dual wielding up until that point, or is it better to use a shield?

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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