Just wondering what the ruling was regarding the use of PnP spells on wands and scrolls, I know PnP spells like detect magic and such are permitted to be used by for wizards given permission from people present but what about wand/scroll wise?

Is there any expectations or restrictions when it comes to the use of PnP spells on wands and such?
Assume a rogue with UMD had access to a wizard who can scribe scrolls for him and the rogue has an ample supply of blank scrolls. Does it mean he has to discard a blank scroll representative of the "use" of the sending scroll if he is permitted to use the spell?

If so what about bone wands and determining how many charges of the PnP spell they have?

Thanks for the time!

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Uhh, I would personally say crafted PnP items would not be allowed, unless specifically denoted by a DM, in a very rare case. But that's just me. =/ Hoping a DM will come along and clarify.

Pretty much it.

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Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011

I don't see what the difference is. Whatever the spell is, since it's PnP, you still have to ask for permission from the people around you.

And Gers, he's not asking about crafting PnP items like Cube of Force or stuff like that, he's talking about wands and scrolls of Pnp Spells. We already allow PnP spells so long as everyone involved gives permission. But I am no DM, of course, so you might have more insight into it more than me, if you were in fact talking about wands and scrolls.

It would figure if you keep a proxy wand that you can actually use up every time you use the actual spell, it wouldn't be much different than how we already allow them to work. Just as long as people aren't going "I have a wand of X" and not actually having it, or just claiming one of their regular wands is. But again, asking permission, persons involved can always just say no.

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No. UMD is bad enoguh as it is without your rogue being able to say he can magically use a scroll of whatever fucking spell you want because "I had it scribed ahead of time".

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Fair enough. Could it possibly be DM-moderated, then? An agreement between creator, DM, and whoever is to receive the items (or possibly just with buyer and DM-NPC with appropriate crafty skills and disposition, or any other reasonable combination)? It would still require concerned-player permission to be used and all, but at least this way people aren't pulling magic out of their arses (without being mages).


Actually this makes me wonder something: How exactly do wizards gain access to PnP spells without it being scribed for them so that they can add it to their spellbooks? Are they all required to do the individual necessary spell research before it's cleared by a DM? Or do they take it as their "spells learned for that level" by proxy (ie, not taking a spell or something)? Or I'm missing something/they can do it just 'cos.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

I've seen PnP spells used RPly on scrolls or items before, but that's either during events or with expressed DM consent for use in something related to an event.

I'd say if you want to do it ask a DM for permission. If you're lucky and it won't be overpowered, I think you just might get it and some good RP at the same time. Though I doubt that's the case if you're requesting a specific pnp spell on a scroll to use against other players. Might be granted if it's related to an event though, and you get a hold of someone that could RPly do it.

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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer

This could work to some extent but I agree with tormak on the umd thing (because non-clerics using detect evil for example is fail), and also I don't think stuff like detect evil should be mechanically scripted, because for one, shadowdancers have a pnp counter feat to this pnp spell, and there are far too many variables on things like that. of course this is one example, evocation translates better than stuff like that.

currently custom spells at any rate are rare because it takes time to script and balance anything brought from pnp to a character. it would be better to request one pnp spell for your character that makes sense and has already been worked at through RP ingame, than spaming them onto scrolls.

I guess my question is which pnp spells?



I assume read magic is a given, and would most likely be appeased by removing something from a spell slot to accout for 'using it', however things like control nature which I have seen done in an event should totally be used with dm supervision, else how would you get the dc for it? i don't really know about how you might find the spells though, depends if you mean arcane or clerical or druidic or a rougish spell-fluke.

ed: I used to emote using telekenisis with my wizard at one point (mage hand: levitate a small object), not epically just floating a dagger above his hand. its just a cantrip so I assume it wouldn't be a huge deal, but idk some spells are a big no no like mind reading and psionic powers, there are a few i've come across that I entirely wish we're avaliable ingame but i'll live =)

(exploding runes for one =D the semi optional clickable book of infinate knowledge has lost its finesse.)