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Well, I'll just address it in saying that I like the risky atmosphere. The "See Invis" or "True Seeing" visual FX has always bothered me because I am more than well aware of how much it contributes to metagaming. Not knowing whether someone can see your or not makes it amazingly exciting, to me, and in the grand scheme of things should start putting money in the pockets of professionals.

Last edited by IronAngel on Thu, Mar 03 2011, 21:56 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Yep, that's exactly how I feel about it. It's actually my number one motive, all the other spells effects would just be a bonus. I guess I'm biased in that I rarely PvP directly so I'm not that interested in spells that have no subtle application outside PvP. Can't say it wouldn't be nice to get rid of some shamelessly ugly VFXs like that of the elemental protection spells, but that's almost completely an aesthetic issue.

Yossarin wrote:

Apparently you thought I was joking when I suggested the compromise of having to take a feat to have non-visible spell effects. I wasn't. I have a hard-on for wanting us to use the custom feat option we got, and I have an even bigger hard-on for making you [removed] up your precious builds in order to get the little gifts you want, especially ones like this one that can have a noticeable effect on PvP.

Somehow I missed that suggestion, but I think it's a great idea.

Yossarin wrote:

Well, I'll just address it in saying that I like the risky atmosphere. The "See Invis" or "True Seeing" visual FX has always bothered me because I am more than well aware of how much it contributes to metagaming. Not knowing whether someone can see your or not makes it amazingly exciting, to me, and in the grand scheme of things should start putting money in the pockets of professionals.

I agree completely... this sort of thing is precisely what I meant by saying the VFX "provide information which the game would be better off with other players not knowing." The thing is, though, that it's not really metagaming, is it? If the swirly eyeballs are visible IC, then reacting to them IC is perfectly legit. Better to have the swirly eyeballs visible neither IC nor OOC.

Nothing can be "neither IC or OOC". It either is or it isn't,and they are IC. Maybe you do not have floating eyeballs but there is some other immediate obvious tell that shows you can currently see things beyond normal.

I'm not sure what you mean... the thread is largely about whether it's a good idea to change the scripting of spells to remove the IC-visible VFX. If that's done, then the VFX would be "visible neither IC nor OOC," and there would be no "immediate obvious tell." This is what I'm saying would be a good thing, especially in the case of TS/See Invis.

And you would be incorrect. It is a bad thing, for reasons already elaborated on in this topic. You can have your opinion but opinions can be right or wrong even if you're allowed to have one.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before. What about changing the obnoxious true seeing VFX to something more subtle? Like glowy eyes or something (probably not that 'cos it could mess with monks and stuff, and doesn't show through most helmets). That way it's still visible/obvious enough to represent the effect, but without being so obtrusive and silly.

On the other hand, it may be too much coding for too little gain, whilst still not satisfying the "(most) VFX are silly and should go away!" crowd. Just throwing the idea out there is all.

...The spell could still go without the twinkle sound effect though, really.

Yossarin wrote:

Well, I'll just address it in saying that I like the risky atmosphere. The "See Invis" or "True Seeing" visual FX has always bothered me because I am more than well aware of how much it contributes to metagaming. Not knowing whether someone can see your or not makes it amazingly exciting, to me, and in the grand scheme of things should start putting money in the pockets of professionals.

Totally agree! Playing a shadowdancer I find half the fun is working out 'who' can see me and who can't, it adds a sense of anticipation especially when sneaking somewhere dangerous or following Evil Drow or Banites... ahem... or Eternal Order (hi Richard).

Also if I've noticed a chain reaction effect with truesight/see invisibility someone walks in and notices two people have it cast so... *shazim* until everyone is sitting there with flying eyes. Fair enough if someone casts it and another wizard or sorcerer might think! "ah, a fine idea!" or "I wonder what made him do that" *Cast* but if someone uses an item like 'faded ball' I don't really see why everyone would immediately truesight it up if the spell isn't 'cast' its purely: "oooh flashly lights someone with invisibility got to close to them!" *Cast*.

Aaaand there is not IC reason for the invisible sneaker, unless has the spellcraft to identify the spell as it is cast, to run away or avoid those who can see him, unless they give themselves away.

For me I don't really care about the animations to much but it would be nice for a list of spells which are generally considered visual IC (as seen) and those which are only visible OOC.. (maybe with a small description of IC effect).

EDIT:

serbiris wrote:

Not sure if this has been mentioned before. What about changing the obnoxious true seeing VFX to something more subtle? Like glowy eyes or something (probably not that 'cos it could mess with monks and stuff, and doesn't show through most helmets). That way it's still visible/obvious enough to represent the effect, but without being so obtrusive and silly.

On the other hand, it may be too much coding for too little gain, whilst still not satisfying the "(most) VFX are silly and should go away!" crowd. Just throwing the idea out there is all.

...The spell could still go without the twinkle sound effect though, really.

This sounds pretty cool though!

Yossarin wrote:

Apparently you thought I was joking when I suggested the compromise of having to take a feat to have non-visible spell effects. I wasn't. I have a hard-on for wanting us to use the custom feat option we got, and I have an even bigger hard-on for making you [removed] up your precious builds in order to get the little gifts you want, especially ones like this one that can have a noticeable effect on PvP.

hehe... 'Subtle Spell' meta-magic! ^_^

Yeah, that's what I called it over on page 1.

To be or not to be... OOC

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