AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Kobold = blood of dragons culture heavy.

+

Sorcerer as preferred class due to Dragon blood.

+

Green Dragon disciple kobold

=

Win roleplay build.

I GOT THIS GUYS

will give step by step on build soon.

Monk/RDD? It'll be hilarious to see a kobold on E.

Edit - well, Bards are the closest you get to sorcs really ...

AC 51 (with haste) and mediocre saves, a tad DR and con,
or,
AC 30 and good saves, max con, good concentration, discipline and DR.

Being a caster with premonition and around 480 HP mind you. I lean a bit towards the low AC version, but.. What is best and why?

Ulir wrote:

AC 51 (with haste) and mediocre saves, a tad DR and con,
or,
AC 30 and good saves, max con, good concentration, discipline and DR.

Being a caster with premonition and around 480 HP mind you. I lean a bit towards the low AC version, but.. What is best and why?

Are you talking about the sorc/RDD or .. what are you on about?

No, new question. Druid build btw.

AC 30? Is that even possible? 10 base, +4 on 4 pieces of gear...no shield, or Armor Skin...no tumble, no buffs...throw in a Haste spell, and you get AC 30.

Really? :shock:

Wait a minute...do I smell some crazy Dwarven Defender Hit-Me-And-Damage-Yourself kind of build?

Nay, just druid/ranger/rogue. 35 without haste, my bad!

Anyhow, any idea if it would be suicide?

I haven't played a lot of the high-end content on Amia, but with a 35 AC, I'd say you're going to be looking at the death screen a lot...a WHOLE lot. Don't take my word for it, tho.

As a side note, I BELIEVE Premonition only blocks physical damage. I know as a druid (caster-heavy, I assume...) you have elemental protection spells also, but once those drop, you're meat. I can't imagine you can get enough DR w/o dwarven defender to even come close to 'enough', either.

There's NO good substitute for AC: there are some gimmicks that work, but outside those few, you're just dragging a rusty knife across your throat.

Again, just my opinion.

35 AC will make you real tasty to anything that decides to ignore your pet. How you're ending up with only 35 AC is beyond me, though.

Yeah, I'd get hit alot, if not all the time, but the idea was "kill before getting killed".

With 49 now, I just find that I keep getting hit. Perhaps monsters miss me now and then, but I usually get it in the face.
So I thought it would be funny to beef up all the defensive aspects, concentration, discipline, con max (about 500 hp) and 5/- melee resistances, along with premonition and hasted spell casting, it should work.

Let's say I get 51 ac instead. Druids and haste.. hmm. 5 rds. of 51 ac isn't impressive. In other words. Would 47-51 not be silly low? I am carrying a large shield for crying out loud. I have seen archers with 51+ base ac

Best case scenario is 55 ac with all epics, but that is unlikely to happen. Thanks for the input, I think I'll try the no-ac variant for kicks. One can always add ac later, if dying loses its charm.

Actually if you want to get down to it, the best sort of kobold is a dragonwrought kobold. At least as far as heritage-based standing is concerned. If Ascalon perishes for whatever reason, I think I may make a Dragonwrought, assuming I can foot the DCs for it given how DC intensive Eli is.

DustSpray101 wrote:

Actually if you want to get down to it, the best sort of kobold is a dragonwrought kobold. At least as far as heritage-based standing is concerned. If Ascalon perishes for whatever reason, I think I may make a Dragonwrought, assuming I can foot the DCs for it given how DC intensive Eli is.

Five foot tall kobold with Dragon wings. How cool would that be? Its model would have to be a human, with the Dragon claw legs, and a kobold head.

In 3rd edition, they aren't as tall as Urds had been. Regular kobo model would suffice. I think it would be cool though to do a dex-monk build on a Dragonwrought and RP studying wyverns. Maybe even have a tail piercing or maybe elaborate decoration of a wyvern's stinger added to his own. Would be pretty cool visually, and would work in fluff. Maybe even go the Monk/Assassin route if a pure build would be too gimped.

The low AC DR version only works with few builds, and one of those is a pure or at least high on Wizard or Sorcerer levels. Other than that, only some rare mixes of DwD have any chance of surviving with outright rubbish for AC. The more AC-y variant is the trusty one. In fact, it always is unless you want to go a little frantic.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

The low AC DR version only works with few builds, and one of those is a pure or at least high on Wizard or Sorcerer levels. Other than that, only some rare mixes of DwD have any chance of surviving with outright rubbish for AC. The more AC-y variant is the trusty one. In fact, it always is unless you want to go a little frantic.

Could go nuts and bet it all at one card? Go for a Shadowdancer and dump all AC away!

Yeah no.

Just a quick request of opinions.

My character, Kyspar Tyrarnith is currently 16 monk, 1 sorc, 9 rdd.

From here I see two roads I could take:

-I could finish off level to 20 monk, 1 sorc, 9 rdd, mostly for the eyes visual as it fits the RP of my character. The damage resistance gained at 20 monk is rather useless to anything with a +1 magical weapon, though the mind immunities are a nice perk.

-Or, I could go 18 monk for empty body, 2 sorc for true strike, and 10 rdd for fire resistance and request a flaming eyes widget down the road (with supporting RP of course). Personally, I think this one would be better for PvP/PvM as well as support the RP better with the flaming eyes widget and fire resistance, seeing as she is a devout disciple of Kossuth.

Edit: Also, would anyone be willing to give some insight on "ideal" gear for a monk? Currently she has the Order of the long Death monk kit from Panthalo at the Lemur Monestary as well as the Grandmaster of the Long Death's gloves. So, what I'm asking is.. what equipment would be ideal excluding armor, boots, and gloves.

Edit II: Also, the + 2 spell resistance is to consider from the former rather than the latter. 28SR vs. 30SR could be decision makers in some cases.

Opinions?

Looking for some advice on how to spend 2 epic feats. I don't want to detail the build, but I've just made a STR melee character that will end at AC 51 (unbuffed) and AB 48 (w/only GMW), ends at 26 STR and has Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Prowess, EWS. With Luck of Heros, Strong Soul, and Lightning Reflexes, his saves are Fort 20 / Ref 14 / Will 15 (entirely unbuffed). The build does NOT have evasion or any real spell casting ability, but does have tumble & UMD. Pre-epic feats are non-negotiable, and Dev Crit is OUT: that would just make my saves worse...

I have 2 epic feats to spend, and was considering the following:

1) 2 Epic save feats (which ones?)
2) 1 Epic save feat + ESF - Discipline
3) 2 Great Strength

Suggestions please...

I'd go for option 2 with Epic Fort and ESF: Discipline, but that's with the limited scope of the information given.

I've been kinda toying with the idea of a kobold Fighter/Rogue/BG.

The idea is a BG-heavy build with equal STR and CHA. After a bit of messin' about, I came up with a build with:

STR: 15 (18)
DEX: 10
CON: 11
INT: 10
WIS: 14
CHA: 12 (18)

Tumble 30, Discipline 33, UMD 15

WP: Exotic, WF: Kukri, WS: Kukri, Knockdown, PA, Cleave, Blind Fight, Imp Crit: Kukri, Divine Might, Divine Shield, EWF: Kukri, EWS: Kukri, Armor Skin, Epic Fiendish Servant, Great CHA I and II... I think that's all of 'em.

From my testing, I should be able to average around the mid to upper-70's on crits with Divine Might on, which isn't too impressive, but not too shabby considering the low damage from a kukri. Also, I should be able to hit the low 50's with +4 gear and Haste. Add +10 from Divine Shield and I'm in the low 60's, which is pretty nice.

My question is pretty simple, is using a kukri too whore-ish for a small race? I've never played a small PC, so I'm pretty ignorant about which weapons actually give you some bang for your smaller than average buck.

Duel handaxes are always bad-ass.

Single handaxes are cool, too. But not as cool as duel.

Quote:

1) 2 Epic save feats (which ones?)
2) 1 Epic save feat + ESF - Discipline
3) 2 Great Strength

Suggestions please...

PvM says Great STRx2, PvP says Epic Will, Reflex or Epic Discipline.

If your base save is within 20 of the incoming effect, then you 'only' need to buff the save, for 1/3 of a Mythal slot per point. If you've got more then 20 points to make up, you need to buff DEX/WIS/CON as well, which costs 1 slot per point. Given most DCs will be knocking around 40, you can buff Will and Reflex to good effect; those 4 points save you 4 slots. On Fort they'd only save you one and a third.

To muddy the waters, there's Knockdown spam all over the place, so Epic Discipline, which is 2 slots, looks alright.

I have an idea of converting my old Sun-elf character into a spellblade... Say, What types is there for a wizard type?

Ive heard that the best spellblades are the Sorcerers, since they're equipped with one spell for all occasions, But i'm curious.

Ideas that spring to mind are 23Wiz/6Fighter/1 Something... Or a ranger version for extra dual-wield madness

Much love to Ainjyll and Uberuce: sound advice. Thank you!

Church_Legion wrote:

Duel handaxes are always bad-ass.

Single handaxes are cool, too. But not as cool as duel.

Why is this?

I would say you're into the old 'Threat Range vs Crit Multiplier' debate here. Personally, w/o WM levels, I would think 12-20/x2 (kukri, keen, imp crit) trumps 18-20/x3 (hatchet, keen, imp crit) any day...but I could be wrong.

Now with 7 WM, hatchets become 16-20/x4...which is just special.

Very_Svensk wrote:

I have an idea of converting my old Sun-elf character into a spellblade... Say, What types is there for a wizard type?

Ive heard that the best spellblades are the Sorcerers, since they're equipped with one spell for all occasions, But i'm curious.

Ideas that spring to mind are 23Wiz/6Fighter/1 Something... Or a ranger version for extra dual-wield madness

23 Wizard/6 Fighter/1 Rogue would work neatly. Wizards are just as good as sorcerers for spellblades. Remember the meta feats.

Then there is 23 Wizard/5 Rogue/2 Fighter for a bit of backstabbing.

The best is possibly..

Wizard 23/Weapon Master 5/Rogue 2

AB would be around 47 with normal spell buffs.
AC would be pretty good. 60+, more like 64 though (with shield).

1 Rge - Feats: Toughness, Dodge
2 Wiz
3 Wiz - Feat: Mobility
4 Wiz
5 Wiz
6 Wiz - Feat: Weapon Focus: x, Meta: Extend Spell
7 Wiz
8 Wiz
9 Wiz - Feat: Expertise
10 Wiz
11 Wiz - Meta: Empower Spell
12 Wiz - Feat: Spring Attack
13 Wiz
14 Wiz
15 Wiz - Feat: Whirlwind Attack
16 WM - WoC: x
17 WM
18 WM - Feat: Improved Critical: x
19 WM
20 WM - Increased Multiplier, +1 AB,
21 Wiz - Feat: Armor Skin, Meta: Maximize Spell
22 Wiz
23 Wiz
24 Wiz - Feats: Epic Weapon Focus: x
25 Wiz
26 Wiz - Meta: Spell Penetration
27 Wiz - Feat: Epic Mage Armor
28 Wiz
29 Rge - Skill Dump
30 Wiz - Feats: Hellball/Greater Ruin, Mummy Dust

Probably a lot of room, too, since you don't need AC on neck/armour/Cloak or ring.

Looking at 3 attacks (4) with haste, eh?

Ya, but you can get six attacks per round with 23 wiz/6 fighter/1 rogue. Imp. dual wield.

Dex based for 60 ac, 6 attacks per round and two nifty small weapons. Dagger, shortsword, handaxes.. whateva. +6 damage from epic weapon spec helps a lot with damage.

Four attacks isn't that bad though. With WM you will enjoy your high crits. Heck, go scythe and reap em apart (though a scythewielding sunelf is.. insane)

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

I would say you're into the old 'Threat Range vs Crit Multiplier' debate here. Personally, w/o WM levels, I would think 12-20/x2 (kukri, keen, imp crit) trumps 18-20/x3 (hatchet, keen, imp crit) any day...but I could be wrong.

Now with 7 WM, hatchets become 16-20/x4...which is just special.

Well, I've already got two characters that dual-wield hand axes, so I wanted to steer away from having a third. One of those two is a WM, though.... and when she crits, it's pretty nasty.

Ulir wrote:

Ya, but you can get six attacks per round with 23 wiz/6 fighter/1 rogue. Imp. dual wield.

Dex based for 60 ac, 6 attacks per round and two nifty small weapons. Dagger, shortsword, handaxes.. whateva. +6 damage from epic weapon spec helps a lot with damage.

Four attacks isn't that bad though. With WM you will enjoy your high crits. Heck, go scythe and reap em apart (though a scythewielding sunelf is.. insane)

I suppose it's worthless to go any spell-Focus, eh? Still ... 23 Wizard can get a lot of spells.

Random question: I don't see many builds that use a morningstar. The way I understand it, it does bludgeoning OR piercing damage based on whichever your target is weakest against. Why isn't it more popular? Is there a lack of superific morningstars on Amia? It's alnost a no-brainer to just load up on slashing resist (for PvP especially) and wade on in. Just curious...

I know a few PC's that use morning stars.

The fact its bludgeoning and piercing damage are great and they arguably make morningstar the best Simple category weapon. And there are plenty of good morning stars in the module. The thing is most people that tend towards melee come by Martial or Exotic Proficiency at one time or another. And as well, they prefer a weapon with a larger threat range than just x2 on natural 20.

So again, it's good as a Simple weapon. But slightly less desirable if you lean towards Dev or high critical damage like most melee PC's.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Ulir wrote:

Ya, but you can get six attacks per round with 23 wiz/6 fighter/1 rogue. Imp. dual wield.

Dex based for 60 ac, 6 attacks per round and two nifty small weapons. Dagger, shortsword, handaxes.. whateva. +6 damage from epic weapon spec helps a lot with damage.

Four attacks isn't that bad though. With WM you will enjoy your high crits. Heck, go scythe and reap em apart (though a scythewielding sunelf is.. insane)

I suppose it's worthless to go any spell-Focus, eh? Still ... 23 Wizard can get a lot of spells.

Mmmjaaa, well you will end up with 20 base int, if you wish to have decent ab. Str or dex, both would work. There are plenty of spells with no saves and spell resistance checks. At least enough to work with.

Will definitely need spell penetration, and greater spell penetration I reckon. Luckily i make all my character properly, and thus i will probably only need a de-level to level 1. Not even a rebuild. But that's another cookie i need to bake later.

I'll post a suggestion in a few hours, And let you tear it apart. I know what's good / Bad already, but it's never bad to have the build thread chime in. There's -always- a flaw somewhere you've forgotten.

Good points on the morningstar, Dark. I still get stuck on leftovers from another server I knock around on. In this case, there are a number of critters that take extra damage from bludgeoning and piercing, and a few S00p3r Sp3cial Morningstars.

I'm wandering, arcane archer vs shadowdancer non-arcane archer?
Beside neat feats and such, are there any other advantages to AA such as apr, damage, ab and similar?
PS the build would have maximum 9 AA levels.

Dead wrote:

I'm wandering, arcane archer vs shadowdancer non-arcane archer?
Beside neat feats and such, are there any other advantages to AA such as apr, damage, ab and similar?
PS the build would have maximum 9 AA levels.

Both?
8Bard/4SD/8AA pre-epic, Then 6SD/Rest AA - netting epic dodge, too.

I'd rather go 16 Rogue/1 Bard (or 1 Wizard for no XP pen)/13 AA and cornersneak.

C'mon... A Epic dodging hipsing Archer, It can't get better...

I'm actually aiming zen archer:

21 monk/6 sd/3 rogue vs 20 monk/9 aa/1 sorcerer.

Dead wrote:

I'm actually aiming zen archer:

21 monk/6 sd/3 rogue vs 20 monk/9 aa/1 sorcerer.

Nonono... 10Monk/18AA/2Wizard. That'll make you absolutely grand. Can even go zen archery there if you want, you'll still end on ~55+AB.

why 2 wizard?

Because you can't take Bard and it's easier to have intelligence than charisma on a monk, but not by much. Also Elf favored classes, if you care about multiclass XP penalty but most don't. Either works, really.

The multiclass penalty works on Amia?

TormakSaber wrote:

Because you can't take Bard and it's easier to have intelligence than charisma on a monk, but not by much. Also Elf favored classes, if you care about multiclass XP penalty but most don't. Either works, really.

I get that but why -2- wizard? It's better 11 monk/18 aa/1 wizard?

Dead wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Because you can't take Bard and it's easier to have intelligence than charisma on a monk, but not by much. Also Elf favored classes, if you care about multiclass XP penalty but most don't. Either works, really.

I get that but why -2- wizard? It's better 11 monk/18 aa/1 wizard?

So you can dump some spellcraft in epic, That'll give you a bunch of saves vs Spells. It's worth it over +1AB/+1damage.

Yep...but 11 Monk gets you poison immunity. Personally? I'd go 10 Monk / 1 Wiz / 9 AA pre-epic, then 8 AA / 1 Wiz / 1 Monk in Epic.

But what do I know? I don't even have an AA...

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

Yep...but 11 Monk gets you poison immunity. Personally? I'd go 9 Monk / 1 Wiz / 10 AA pre-epic, then 7 AA / 1 Wiz / 2 Monk in Epic.

But what do I know? I don't even have an AA...

30 Spellcraft = +6Saves vs all spells.
Or Poison immunity.
Which you can get on rings - or via bubbly.

Look again, Mr Screen-Licking Avatar...mine gets you BOTH.

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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