AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Yeah, you can ditch Epic Reflexes these days, and you don't need higher than 16 CHA. The lack of Blind-Fight makes me weep, too.

Other than that, though, it is an awesome build.

Yarp, that's the pure PvM flavour. Ruce had Epic Fort and Blindfight, and would have had 16CHA, but because of his DC 7th level Bard slot item, had 17 instead.

Ahhh, no wonder, I'd swear I was remembering Ruce to have Blind-Fight on his build.

I've been going over this in my head since yesterday, and I must admit I need help with it.

What I am thinking is a Human Fighter/Sorceror/RDD, with a combination of decent fighting abilities (2 longswords) and decent spellcasting abilities (at least 5th level spells, cone of cold, she's an icemisstress, but having a good GMW and FW buff would be nice, too.).

Go!

Dividing through zero is easier. 17 sorc 4 fighter 9 RDD says my gut feeling, but never played any RDD. Don't expect to hit much dual-wielding longswords.

I've been itching to make a ranger lately, but I'm not exactly sure what I want. I've a few simple questions: Are the spells worth dropping some WIS points from another ability? Would BoE make up for lost damage of a DEX-based build and is it even worth getting on this server due to the wide range of subraces? Are the duel-wielding capabilities worth the 7-8 AC deficit from lack of a shield (considering STR or DEX builds)?

I'm not particularly looking for the best PvP build, I'm not much into PvP on this server anyway, if it happens, it happens. But having feats and skills focused particularly for RP is just fine with me, of course.

Here's my recent ideas on some ranger builds:

Ranger 21, WM 7, Rogue 2. (Were I to go DEX-based on this, I'd shoot for a rapier for the massive crit-range. STR-based on the other hand, I'd go for a bastard-sword for the nice crit-range, nice damage, and dev-crit.)

Ranger 21, Fighter 5, Rogue 4. (Clearly for weapon spec/epic weapon spec, as I saw it may be more worth-while than 7 WM from another post.)

Ranger 29, Rogue 1? (I like the idea of a near-pure ranger build, but you just can't ignore dumping some skill points into tumble. Any other ideas on this one would be great to hear from.)

Ranger 9, WM 19, Monk 2. (Just kinda threw this together. 9 ranger for the duel-wields, 2 monk for the massive APR (With kamas, should be 7 attacks per round, 8 with haste) and tumble, and.. weapon master for crits/ab I suppose.. feel free to switch that with any other ideas.)

The reason I ask if BoE is worth taking is because I could take the Fighter/Rogue levels pre-epic, then save all the extra favored-enemy feats for much more worth-while epic feats.

Thanks in advance.

STR Ranger25 Fighter4 Rogue1 with BoE is basically the best you can get PvM, its not bad at PvP either. DEX is okay but I don't recommend it. My chap + pig and a good party could tank the Abyss without shield and didn't die much, really.

So then that leads me to the question of: what favored enemies would be the best to take? There's such a wide range on Amia, would I just take the standard 7 races or take some of the more prominent monster races like outsider?

Edit: of course, RP-wise the ranger herself would have to have some reason as to why she favors this hunt above the others, so going the PvP route with BoE would break all RP sense if I were an elf that favored hunting elves.

Human, Elf, Outsider, Undead, Giant, Aberration + something else you want to kill in PvP. Drow is elf subrace too. BoE is not the PvP route, its the "I want to do some damage to the monsters I slaughter" -route.

I've also been a bit curious about how to make an effective level 30 bard character. In arena servers, I have a level 40 build that is quite literally unbeatable one-on-one, but once you take away 10 of those levels it's like I've never even attempted at building one before.

Right now I have a level 28 character (bard 24, fighter 4) that's heavy in strength and wields a bastard sword. The damage is fairly nice, around 30-35 a hit / 60-70 crits with a 15-20 crit range. Her AC is only low, 54 with haste and song, simply because she cannot afford the top-notch gear that most seemingly can.

Any bard builds that someone wouldn't mind sharing?

Well, first, I need to know how in the devil you're a sword/board full plater with onl 54 AC at level 28 buffed, as a BARD. That's like damn near impossible.

Especially since your stock shop-bought +4AC fullplate/towershield/amulet/ring is around 12,000 a pop. There's drops from the +3bin that cover that, let alone the +4.

Church_Legion wrote:

Ranger 9, WM 19, Monk 2. (Just kinda threw this together. 9 ranger for the duel-wields, 2 monk for the massive APR (With kamas, should be 7 attacks per round, 8 with haste) and tumble, and.. weapon master for crits/ab I suppose.. feel free to switch that with any other ideas.)

Cool idea. I really like it, honestly!

She doesn't have an 'ideal' set of gear. That can be fixed easily, but the question was more build-wise, not item-wise.

Church_Legion wrote:

So then that leads me to the question of: what favored enemies would be the best to take? There's such a wide range on Amia, would I just take the standard 7 races or take some of the more prominent monster races like outsider?

Edit: of course, RP-wise the ranger herself would have to have some reason as to why she favors this hunt above the others, so going the PvP route with BoE would break all RP sense if I were an elf that favored hunting elves.

The RP for your character is up to you, but I'm pretty sure I could come up with a damn good reason for a ranger character to have BoE with their own race... for starters... it's your race, it's you... you should know their habits better than any other.

hendrack wrote:

Human, Elf, Outsider, Undead, Giant, Aberration + something else you want to kill in PvP. Drow is elf subrace too. BoE is not the PvP route, its the "I want to do some damage to the monsters I slaughter" -route.

I politely disagree. +2 AB and +2d6 damage is overwhelmingly beneficial in PvP.

Human, Elf, Outsider, Undead are key, but Dwarf or any other PC available class would work great. It makes being a DEX-er Ranger actually worth it.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Church_Legion wrote:

Ranger 9, WM 19, Monk 2. (Just kinda threw this together. 9 ranger for the duel-wields, 2 monk for the massive APR (With kamas, should be 7 attacks per round, 8 with haste) and tumble, and.. weapon master for crits/ab I suppose.. feel free to switch that with any other ideas.)

Cool idea. I really like it, honestly!

Hrmmm not that great an idea really.

10 Fighter 19 WM 1 Monk does all this and more you just need to invest in dexterity.

I built a plain jane human chap similar then totally modified it for my Earth Genasi.

20 Strength
15 Dex
11 Con
13 Int
6 Cha
6 Wis

10 Fighter levels in pre-epic nets you 6 bonus feats or your requirements for WM.
Standard Feats: Exotic Weapon Prof, Blindfight, Improved Critical, Ambidex, Two Weapon and Improved Two Weapon, Power Attack and Great fort.

Epic feats: Great Strength 1, Epic Discipline, Armor skin, Great Cleave*, Epic Weapon Focus, Overwhelming, Epic Prowess.

*Taken at level 27 when you take your Monk Level for 30 Tumble.

AB: 4 WM, 4 EWF/Prowess/WF, 15 Modifier, 25 BAB + GMW + Bless/Aid = 55 AB -2 For dualwieding - 2 running flurry all day =
Main Hand: 51, 48, 45, 42, 39, 36
Offhand: 51, 46
Free Attacks: 55 (Haste) 50 (Flurry of Blows) 45 40 (Great Cleaves)

Heya, I'm in a bit of a pickle. I've been thinking of bringing back one of my PC's, but I can't seem to find the build sheet I had for him. i remember his concept though.. Could anyone help me?

I remember wanting him to have a good step in being an AA, so I think I wanted high AA lvls, and the concept was.. Sniper.

As of now, he is level 4 and here are his stats..

Race- Moon Elf

STR- 12
DEX- 19
CON- 12
INT- 14
WIS- 8
CHA- 12

He already has Called Shot, Point Blank Shot, and WF/WS: Bow.

Could anyone help me fill out the rest of his build? I'm horrible with figuring out an AA build, so if is possible, could I possibly have a step by step build, or even something along the lines of what feats and skills to take? My biggest concern is that I don't know when to take what class at what level. All i'm really wanting is him to be really good with his bow *nodnod*

Thank you guys so much

P.S.- A PM would work just as well, as to not clutter the thread.

Class? What class is he?

OH yeah!!

He's a Level 4 fighter. Also, for his arcane class, I was thinking wizard..

Thanks and sorry for that mess up hehe =/

You'll get the most AB out of a DEX based fighter/AA that is for sure.

You took the latest Ability point into DEX; correct? That means you started at 18DEX flat.

It's not really a build you can mess up, Honestly. Get the normal Bow feats, Called/Wep.focus/Point blank/Imp.Critical/rapid shot etc and then just pick whatever suites you.

Grab the wizard level at level 5 is my recommendation, so you can start using Summon VII Scrolls

He's already got WS Bow, so a level 4 Fighter.

Fret not, you have can do the Fighter10/Bard2/AA18, meaning Fighter9/Bard1/AA10 pre-epic or in case you want more bard, Fighter6/Bard5/AA19. The latter misses out on EWS and I thus rate it inferior to the first spread out, but it's got more bard and more giggles, in case that's what you're looking for.

Invest rest of your ability points in DEX, grab UMD, Discipline, Tumble, Spot, MS, Hide for skills and you're set to go. For feats go with the regular set: WF, Blindfight, WS, Called Shot, Imp Crit, PBS, Rapid Shot for pre-epic and EWF, Armour skin for epic. Everything else is under your discretion, though I'd recommend feats that increase saves, Spot and Discipline, or just saves and some slight melee upgrades in case you're planning the character weighted completely on the PvM side of the game.

EDIT: Yeah, don't listen to most of what Svensk said, just the stuff he agrees with me.

Dude, he -asked- for wizard levels :lol:

Better yet, 4 bard, 8 fighter, 18 aa. Gets you more ac and damage. You will even have a spare feat for extra music or lingering song if you like. That's +1 ab and +2 damage from bard song. Remember weapon spec and epic weapon spec. Taking bard with 12 cha will give you level 1 and 2 spells to play with, which is better than nothing.

3 bard/7 ftr/10 aa pre-epic. 8 aa/1 ftr/1 bard in epic.

19 dex now.. that means you will have to use an epic feat on great dex to even it out to 26. Should net you 54 ab with a +4 bow and no buffs.

*curls into a ball and rolls up a tree, firing arrows randomly*

*edit* more ac and damage when comparing to wiz level/s.

All these sugestions are very nice but yus, I would like to try the Wizard route if possible? Also, a thought popped into my head..

If I didn't go the AA route, but more of Ftr/rog, with a heavy emphasis on rogue.. what would be that outcome? It'd give me tumble and UMD regardless and the sneak attacks from so many rogue levels would be fun. Correct

?

Ulir wrote:

*curls into a ball and rolls up a tree, firing arrows randomly*.

The outcome would be fancy damage whenever you hit.. But your ab would be suck. What's the point of huge damage if you cant hit?

Rogue/AA with epic dodge trumps the fighter/AA in a severe manner.

You want Bard because you want full tumble ranks and wizard just wont work for that.

Really should have gone Bard at first level for the extra skill points.

Still prefer 10/9 Monk 1/2 Wizard 19 AA myself.

Or 17 Rogue 2 Bard 11 AA.

Or 8 Bard 9 AA 13 SD.

Or 21 Bard 9 AA.

Even though everyone has a hard on for the Fighter/AA/Bard its probably the worst of a good bunch.

Nah, it's great. In comparison to the rogue/aa it's good, if not better. Depends on the situation. Ftr/aa always works and you won't have to worry about distance to your enemies. Epic dodge is neat, but if getting the attention you will do pitiful damage compared to the ftr/aa. Almost feels like being a zen archery druid on mild steroids.

Sure it's fun and the sneak attacks do looooads of damage, but meh.. depends on which classes you like, Sin, and what your character should be like. Personally I prefer firing at a long distance and avoid melee combat as an archer. -IF- you get into a melee scrap, you can still keep the same damage as before, if not better due to point blank shot and survive.

One is situational, sneaky and kinky, the other allround and beefy. Ramen beef mind you :idea:

<Try the Dev.crit AA. It should suite your needs of doing huge damage and still hit things you attack.

MoshingChris wrote:

Rogue/AA with epic dodge trumps the fighter/AA in a severe manner.

You want Bard because you want full tumble ranks and wizard just wont work for that.

Really should have gone Bard at first level for the extra skill points.

Still prefer 10/9 Monk 1/2 Wizard 19 AA myself.

Or 17 Rogue 2 Bard 11 AA.

Or 8 Bard 9 AA 13 SD.

Or 21 Bard 9 AA.

Even though everyone has a hard on for the Fighter/AA/Bard its probably the worst of a good bunch.

Having an Epic Dodging Rogue/Bard/AA myself (pretty much the build I highlighted), I can attest that it's more than nasty. With the AA arrows and her sneaks, she can whack enemies for a substantial amount of damage per hit without much trouble and her AB is pretty nasty at that. I can't remember the exact number, but I know that she never has that much trouble nailing anything she gets in her sights.

I'm rather fond of the Bard/AA/SD one. It fits the sniper role nicely.

Its alright I suppose but very heavily strapped in regards to epic feats. You can only really afford EWF, Armorskin, Epic Dodge and ESF Hide aswell as the epic shade lord feat.

I've chosen my build! I've caved and chosen bard >_>

Also, from watching a movie recently I've felt the need to revive my old character. A wood elven Barbarian!

I'm stuck at lvl 3 though.. I'm not taking the barbarian levels 'til lvl 4. I chose to take the three fighter levels first for weapon feats and such. He uses a greataxe and I'm really only caring about the dmg and AB. Any suggestions on how i should build the rest of him? i know I may have screwed his build up already with only 12 INT but eh, I'll spend the point ability point on INT to increase it. No biggie. But I was hoping to make him have alot of barbarian levels, mixed with fighter for EWF/EWS and then some rogue for tumble. Any ideas and siggestions on what feats I should take? How many barbarian levels in pre epic?

His stats are..

18 STR
14 DEX
14 CON
12 INT

Start over.

1 - 20 is all Barbarian.

MoshingChris wrote:

Start over.

1 - 20 is all Barbarian.

^This. And go 24 Barbarian/4 Fighter/2 Rogue.

Hey everyone,
Can someone help me, which is the best weapon for a dev critter that DOES NOT have exotic weapon proficiency. Is it scimitar or is it longsword/axe etc?

Would appreciate if someone helped with the breakdown of the advantageous and disadvantageous of each weapon, ie. damage vs critrange.
If there is a topic/post already on this would appreciate if you could let me know which it is.

Thank you kindly!

Vinasius wrote:

Hey everyone,
Can someone help me, which is the best weapon for a dev critter that DOES NOT have exotic weapon proficiency. Is it scimitar or is it longsword/axe etc?

Would appreciate if someone helped with the breakdown of the advantageous and disadvantageous of each weapon, ie. damage vs critrange.
If there is a topic/post already on this would appreciate if you could let me know which it is.

Thank you kindly!

My suggestion is to flavor the weapon to the character and not the other way around.

No kidding.

Quote:

My suggestion is to flavor the weapon to the character and not the other way around.

The character concept in mind is a travelling human fighter mercenary. He views every weapon as the same, he sees the weapon as a tool, wether it be a hammer, or sword, flail or scimitar. He does not believe in the sacredness such a weapon would hold to some fighters, and views weapons merely as means to get the job done (ie. weaponmasters, samurais etc, which is why my char would not take exotic weapon proficiency, and wont take weaponmaster class).

So if his character intention is to find the ultimate killing tool. (for a dev critter, with no exotic weapon proficiency and uses a shield) Which would it be.
note: posted in the Build Advice thread for that purpose. (to optimise a potential build)

Well, every weapon can't be the same for a dev critter since they'd be using one weapon better than another?

To answer your question from a mechanical standpoint, they were all balanced to be somewhat equally effective.

For a character built around Dev Crit, I'd think the primary concern would be getting the Dev Crit to trigger as often as possible. Therefore having a wider critical threat range, rather than a higher critical multiplier, would be key. So I'd go with something like rapier (18-20/x2) rather than something like handaxe (19-20/x3).

In raw numbers in onehanders of chance-to-Dev multiplied by duration-of-Dev against a target of AC that you always have crit threat against, you get the most bang for your buck out of the 19-20 range; six chances to flatten for two rounds. The longer threat scim/kukri/rapier give nine chances to crit for one round, and the high threat give three of three.

There's a hell of a lot of difference between a two round KD and three, though.

Uberuce wrote:

In raw numbers in onehanders of chance-to-Dev multiplied by duration-of-Dev against a target of AC that you always have crit threat against, you get the most bang for your buck out of the 19-20 range; six chances to flatten for two rounds. The longer threat scim/kukri/rapier give nine chances to crit for one round, and the high threat give three of three.

There's a hell of a lot of difference between a two round KD and three, though.

But the odds are bigger that you re-Crit again when the enemy's prone with a low threat range weapon. Even tho it causes less damage.

Sin4given wrote:

18 STR
14 DEX
14 CON
12 INT

Also this should be

17STR (Wood Elf moves that to 19)
11DEX
14Con
14 INT (Wood Elf reducts to 12)
8WIS
8CHA

There's also the fact that you won't be snubbed as a goddamn WHORE if you don't use the scimitar/rapier/kukri.

TormakSaber wrote:

There's also the fact that you won't be snubbed as a goddamn WHORE if you don't use the scimitar/rapier/kukri.

Hehe

This is true... This is true.

If he chooses to play a Cordor whore, there shouldn't be any problem. :wink:

Uberuce wrote:

Especially since your stock shop-bought +4AC fullplate/towershield/amulet/ring is around 12,000 a pop. There's drops from the +3bin that cover that, let alone the +4.

Well, just wanted to say that to a 24 lvl bard, she wants to 0% spell failure so fullplate and towershield isnt gonna work here imo. Chain armor with +3 and large shield with +3 seems to be the way. But even with that you should at least net erhmm,,58 AC...

Fullplate is still adequate in PvM although I always go with the chain myself on my bards unless it's some silly masochist build.

And yus, should be 10 Base + 4 DEX + 6 Song + 5 Tumble + 7 Armour + 5 Shield + 4 Cloak + 4 Amulet + 5 Boots + 1 Mage Armour + 4 Haste + 2 Armour Skin = 57 or 55 if you haven't taken Armour Skin yet.

What would be a good build for a kobold RDD?

Ive been milling it over and over in my head, and wasnt happy with the bard.

It makes the most RP sense to go Sorc/Rdd

But ive no good way to go about it!

You just want to play an RDD then? I'd be more worried of the main class than the RDD, though. RDD is a prestige class, and one could say that a character's main theme is vastly determined by the base classes.

If you want to play a Bard/RDD, then play a Bard/RDD. It's perfectly decent, and truth be told, the Sorcy variant doesn't do much better.

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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