AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Uberuce wrote:

I'm not enough of a Divine Might/Shield user to say with any authority what a minimum value is, although I do know that on my Barb/BG that used to have +9/9 rounds, he'd usually run out of Might/Shield with one mobster left alive when soloing the likes of the Frozen Wastes/Alamber Sea.

I personally love doing masochistic build things because I prefer to have a flawed but unique build to a well rounded common one, so I would ditch Might/Shield and go for Cleric23/Ftr6/Rogue1.

I dimly remember looking at EDR Clerics, and deciding the caster/Zen Archery route was the best of a bad bunch, but it'll be reasonably smooth getting to 30 with a greatsword; you're a Cleric who doesn't die easily, so it'll be fine.

Thanks for the encouragement . I'll give it a go, one way or another. I'm not sure which way I'll swing. I'm currently tempted to try and squeeze it all in in any case, nerfing INT and the skills.............70 is enough for 30 disc, 25 tumble dump and 15 spellcraft after all

You mean 30 tumble and 10 spellcraft.

TormakSaber wrote:

You mean 30 tumble and 10 spellcraft.

I think he's trying for EMD so he needs 15 Spellcraft. Pretty tight on skill points for my taste hence why I'm always putting extra point or two into Int because I can't stand a paltry allotment of skills.

Hey guys, I'm wanting a monk blackguard. I really suck at builds. How I have him now is 20 monk/ 10 BG, he has a 30 AB and 29 AC. He doesn't have much damage though, is this how most monks are?

So drop EDK on my druid?

The Hybrid46 wrote:

Hey guys, I'm wanting a monk blackguard. I really suck at builds. How I have him now is 20 monk/ 10 BG, he has a 30 AB and 29 AC. He doesn't have much damage though, is this how most monks are?

Pretty much. A monk's low AB combined with a difficulty in getting damage unless you go an STR base means you're arse to kill but your killing capability is likewise arse.

a str monk can still pull the same AC and a few more as your average tumbletank however....

maglorine wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

You mean 30 tumble and 10 spellcraft.

I think he's trying for EMD so he needs 15 Spellcraft.

This. Anyhoo.. I'm gonna play in the build pit a little longer. Again, muchos gracias for the advices. It's helped alot giving me a sense of what's possible, stoopid, and smart. Doesn't mean to say I still won't be stupid.

So no suggestions for my druid?

Go for Evocation as your focus. Earthquake and Sunburst vary from being a ridiculous status effects to very good ones, depending on where you are.

Call Lightning is worth firing off once per spawn too; if I recall I never had much use for 6th level spells so I Maximised it and dropped a nice regular 360/450 damage into the mob, depending on BoT and vulnerabilities.

That makes EDK pretty uninspiring unless you want to go the Stonehold/Mass Heal/Storm of Vengeance route for Conjuration, which is actuallypretty good too.

However, 24WIS doesn't cut it for a caster. Pimp it up like you're making a Dragonshaper.

STR 12
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 18 (26)
CHA 9

That good? Or should I add Greater Wis as well? That would mean dropping epic spells tho.

Also what do you mean by:

Quote:

That makes EDK pretty uninspiring unless you want to go the Stonehold/Mass Heal/Storm of Vengeance route for Conjuration, which is actuallypretty good too.

Sounds like a sort of "Hold in place and whittle away at them" technique.

Honest question: What is the purpose of this thread in a RolePlay server?

To help RPers not get PKed by power-builders.

Shit reason. Next.

Note2_Self wrote:

Shit reason. Next.

To make our RP builds and see what are other people doing when making their RP builds.

Do you mean to make power-builds and then base RP around them?

Honestly, what is the reason for this thread?

Note2_Self wrote:

Honestly, what is the reason for this thread?

Asked and answered.

SLS wrote:

To help RPers not get PKed by power-builders.

Note2_Self wrote:

Do you mean to make power-builds and then base RP around them?

Honestly, what is the reason for this thread?

I already told you, it's like the balance between nuclear weapons. If only one side had all the nuclear weapons, there would be nothing to keep them in check.

Likewise, even among the people who make RP builds, or for fun builds, there will be those who make power-builds, can't avoid that.
So that these people don't get a major upper-hand, others start making power-builds as well, and so on and so forth. The person who simply makes a PC based off their RP, tends to get their ass handed to them, I know, I've tried. Avoiding PvP doesn't count, cause you can't do that all the time, specially if you're part of a major faction.
The builds here, I wouldn't really call "power-builds", more like optimizing builds, so you can at least stand a chance in PvP AND PvE. The best power-builds, the ones that take on 5 PCs at once and win, are often kept a close secret by their creators.

So yeah, it's not the best direction an RP server can take, but that's how it is. Least something like this gives everyone a chance to stand on somewhat equal ground.

OK, I accept the answers given, but I also take into account the people that have given these answers.

I want to know the reason for this threads existence from the powers that be, the authorities, the ones in the know, the powerbuilders, the Moshing Chris, the Tormak Saber, the Uberuce, the GreatPigeon, the Uncle Opustus, and dare I say, the Very Svensk.

Note2_Self wrote:

Shit reason. Next.

In order for you to get any legitimate answer, you msut first define what is a "Shit reason" or not. Given that you are obviously already pre disposed against the thread and offer nothing more than a handwave answer to a legitimate reply to your pst, I declare that you either: Have no acceptable definition or: Weren't really looking for an answer and just wnated a chance to pontificate and talk about how much better you are than the people who post here.

In either case, kindly exit the thread: Some of us like to use it to do exactly hwhat he said: even the odds against the people the likes of which try to force nonsensical powerbuilds on people and turn the world into Plant/Travel clerics regarldess of their deity.

But here, let me humor you.

What is the point of this thread?

To help RPers not get PKed by power-builders.

Quote:

Do you mean to make power-builds and then base RP around them?

You are clearly in the camp that believes that if you have a decent build, then you must be a horrible roleplayer, as if somehow your black box of 67s of Persuade and Epic Reputation somehow mean you are better than me, simply because I do not have it. After all, you took Epic Reputation in the name of ROLEPLAY, and I did not, therefore you must be better ri-No. Wrong.

Anything that you don't roleplay is a shameless dickwaving cheesmonger powerbuild.

Anything that you legitimately, within server lore and reason roleplay is an RP build.

This means that the wizard 20/palemaster 10 can simultaneously be an RP build and a powerbuild based on the roleplay of the person using it. That goes for pretty much everything in the entire game.

You asked the questions and got your answers. Who they came from is irrelevant (but let's be serious: You included Svensk in "powerbuilding authority". I am already questioning your ability to pick out the right people to listen to.). You got your answer, and it is THE answer. 'Shit reason' or not.

Now let us help people, help us help people, or kindly exit the thread so that we may continue to do so in peace. Logging into Amia is ----------> that way, please use your time constructively instead of trolling a topic. Powerbuilding is going to happen on a server no matter what the rules are, no matter how mcuh you try to stop it, no matter what precautions you take. We are simply more honest here with it and are willing to help people who do not have a firm grasp on mechanics. Does this homogenize things a bit? Undoubtedly. Does this make things better on people who are afraid to roll a character type simply because they are worried about being bullied constantly? Sure. But in the end, I could hand you the best build in existence, and if you don't know how to play it, you're going to get the floor wiped with you. No build is gonig to fully substitute for rraw reflexes and experience, both in PvP and PvM.

If you are so worried about this topic, I suggest you begin to ignore it, because it is going nowhere. Having this topic does not affect the roleplaying quality of the server at all, this sort of conversation crops up on every forum for ever server out there. You only see it as more here because 1: We have a larger population, 2: We do not immediately strike the topic as super taboo and thus shove all the discussion into the dark and keeping it in the hands of the people who would legitimately abuse the system at your expense) and 3: we collect it in one super topic.

TormakSaber wrote:

... and turn the world into Plant/Travel clerics regardless of their deity.

Ok, here's my dummy question of the day... why is Plant domain so cool? Is it just because of Barkskin? I mean, it's a very fine spell and all, but isn't a natural AC bonus pretty easy to get from amulets or potions or whatever?

Last edited by hendrack on Fri, Feb 11 2011, 11:52 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Besides, having one thread is less messy than ten new threads every day.

Lizzie wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

... and turn the world into Plant/Travel clerics regardless of their deity.

Ok, here's my dummy question of the day... why is Plant domain so cool? Is it just because of Barkskin? I mean, it's a very fine spell and all, but isn't a natural AC bonus pretty easy to get from amulets or potions or whatever?

Because the cleric wants his WIS+5 amulet in that spot, so yes that one spell allmost makes it that good. Gearing a cleric is messy.

Barkskin. +5 AC. Enjoy using an Amulet of +6 universal saves. The amulet slot is always always always at apremiumand every AC you get from a spell buff is an item you ge tto use on something better thnan wasting it on a generic AC enchantment. This is why spellcasters have the best gear in the game: Epic Mage Armor, Haste, Barkskin, Shield of Faith, Greater MAgic Weapon, Keen Edge, Magic Vestment, these spells eliminate the need for the "Generic enchantment" that takes up so much room on weapons and thus frees up better things, and they can be extended to run for incredible amounts of time.

The original reason of this topic was to get all the build discussion into one place, which is more efficent than making a new topic for every question. You can't really ban build discussion (nor should you) but it's nicer to keep it in one place.

The reason for build discussion itself, though, is that it's fun and interesting. It's part of the game, and I'm sure people didn't spend their weekly allowance or whatever on a game just so they could ignore half the fun in order to avoid the disapproval of nerds on the internet. And what Tormak said.

Lizzie: you can't get +5 Natural AC from potions, and very few amulets give that. Freeing up the amulet slot for something other than AC is pretty great. As a Plant/Travel cleric, you can provide yourself with +5 Deflection, +5 Armor, +5 Shield, +5 Natural and +4 Dodge (plus whatever you get from Divine Shield) AC, which means you don't need to worry about AC on your gear other than your boots. It's pretty useful.

Potions of Barkskin are at level 12 if I'm not wrong, so that's +4. +5 is for level 13+.

15+. www.nwnwiki.com

Tormak et. al. wrote:

Hm. The fact that stuff like this doesn't occur to me, is the reason I could never be a powerbuilder. Though at least I wasn't so dumb as to ask why Travel is awesome, haha.

Got to say also, I'd been thinking about trying something Fenmarel-ish whenever I get around to trying something new, but knowing the sort of builds I'd be lumped in with, kinda makes me not want to go that route. Here's a thought... what are generally considered to be the *worst* domains? Maybe I'll pick a deity specifically for the awfulness of the domains offered.

Red Knight, taking Knowledge and Protection. That's my pick.

Great deity, but her other two domains are so much better.

Last edited by SLS on Fri, Feb 11 2011, 12:26 PM, edited 1 time in total.

TormakSaber wrote:

15+. http://www.nwnwiki.com

1-6 +3
7-12 +4
13+ +5

...um?

TormakSaber wrote:

Red Knight, taking Knowledge and Protection. That's my pick.

Great deity, but her other two domains are so much better.

Hey! my cleric of Gond has Knowledge, it's not THAT bad, you get some nice buffs to skill points when praying. Plus protection grants concealment.

EDIT: Also, the abilities from the domains.

Divine Protection - The cleric is able to cast an improved form of sanctuary that sets the save DC at 10 + charisma modifier + clerical level. The effect has a duration of 1 round per caster level + charisma modifier.

Better now then ever, since you can't cast in GS anymore.

Erm... well... I will take that as my cue to go to bed. Leave it to me to forget that Barkskin is the only AC spell that doesn't respect the 1/3rd AC rule.

Quote:

Hey! my cleric of Gond has Knowledge, it's not THAT bad, you get some nice buffs to skill points when praying. Plus protection grants concealment.

You asked for the worst two domains and they are it.

Cool. So long as it's clear.

Last edited by Zifon on Fri, Feb 11 2011, 14:48 PM, edited 1 time in total.

TormakSaber wrote:

Leave it to me to forget that Barkskin is the only AC spell that doesn't respect the 1/3rd AC rule.

*coughs,shield of faith,coughs*, actually are there others than magical vestment that respect that rule?

//btw: My cleric has a +5 WIS amulet and a +4 AC amulet, he uses the ac amulet as soon as he has cast his maximized WIS buff, then puts the WIS amulet on again just before rest. Thats a easy way to get +5 wis for clerics that dosent cast offensive spells//

Zifon wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Leave it to me to forget that Barkskin is the only AC spell that doesn't respect the 1/3rd AC rule.

*coughs,divine-shield,coughs*

//btw: My cleric has a +5 WIS amulet and a +4 AC amulet, he uses the ac amulet as soon as he has cast his maximized WIS buff, then puts the WIS amulet on again just before rest. Thats a easy way to get +5 wis for clerics that dosent cast offensive spells//

That's too much micromanagement for me. I'm far too forgetful to remember putting on the +5 Wisdom amulet before resting or before the spell runs out. And heaven forbid that a mage gets the Owl's removed with a Mords.

So got discussion got kind of sidetracked, any opinions?

SLS wrote:

STR 12
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 18 (26)
CHA 9

That good? Or should I add Greater Wis as well? That would mean dropping epic spells tho.

Also what do you mean by:

Quote:

That makes EDK pretty uninspiring unless you want to go the Stonehold/Mass Heal/Storm of Vengeance route for Conjuration, which is actuallypretty good too.

Sounds like a sort of "Hold in place and whittle away at them" technique.

SLS wrote:

The best power-builds, the ones that take on 5 PCs at once and win, are often kept a close secret by their creators.

I'd think if someone takes on 5 PCs and win, its more because of a mix of player experience from the Soloer and inexperience from the group of 5.

Quote:

I want to know the reason for this threads existence from the powers that be, the authorities, the ones in the know, the powerbuilders, the Moshing Chris, the Tormak Saber, the Uberuce, the GreatPigeon, the Uncle Opustus, and dare I say, the Very Svensk.

My running order of 'time well spent' goes Good RP -> Good Violence -> Bad Violence -> Bad RP. I can't do a damn thing about 1 and 4, but it's just silly to have a headful of knowledge of how to go from 3 to 2 and not share it.

SLS: Well, if you have a Druid pet and an EDK at your side, a Stoneheld enemy won't be getting whittled. Personally I would go Evocation, though.

In the context of the discussion I post in the build topic because its relaxing. Iron basically hit the nail on the head for me. Half the fun of the game for me is coming up with masochistic builds for myself running them successfully and then pointing out that 'class x + class b' aren't so bad together.

Uberuce wrote:

SLS: Well, if you have a Druid pet and an EDK at your side, a Stoneheld enemy won't be getting whittled. Personally I would go Evocation, though.

Ah, so EDK's summon time is extended with focus in conjuration, so the focus on that and the appropriate spells, I get it.

Also according to the game's mechanics, you can have your companion out with you and summon creatures. But if you try to use an epic summon with a Summon Creature spell active it cancels out the first summon right?
So at the end you'll only ever have two summons active, max?

As druid you can have your animal companion, summon (EDK/EMD or I-IX) and something fuzzy with animal empathy at the same time.

hendrack wrote:

As druid you can have your animal companion, summon (EDK/EMD or I-IX) and something fuzzy with animal empathy at the same time.

Likewise as a sorcerer/wizard: familiar, summon, dominated.

Ah, right, assuming I can find an appropriate fuzzy, would it be worth investing in Epic Skill Focus: Animal Empathy then?

No, you'll get enough through skill ranks and item buffs, if needed. I don't remember the DCs, but they're nothing you can't beat.

The beefiest ones are a tad below 50, methinks.

I think Massive Grey Renders of Brog are like 30-40 something, and they're magical creatures, so a bit higher than regular empathy resistance. Either way, yeah, I've never even seen one at 50.

Ah, good thanks, it was also suggested that I throw in SD levels and dump in Hide/MS to emulate a sort of "stay out of battle and let the summons deal with the baddies" strategy during PvP.
Namely so that they won't make a beeline straight for the Druid and ignore the summons, there any alternative to this? Aside from Dragon Form?

I wouldn't do that because it means gimping your summons, especially the animal companion. You can always drink an invisibility potion if that's an issue, but you'll hopefully be in a party most of the time anyway.

Doh' forgot about that, how about a level of Rogue to dump Hide and MS then? With camouflage it could get pretty high I think. Or should I just stick to a pure druid?

TS is the main problem with invis pots.

Rogue is always nice. Tumble dump wouldn't hurt for defense, but you probably don't need UMD whatwith your special druid gear. You ought to take 2 for Evasion I guess, because you get your last Druid bonus feat at 28 anyway. Then again, Ranger would net you Discipline dump (if you have extra skill points, anyway) and possibly a new weapon, if your faith/concept allows for that. Ranger taken in epic also lets you pick your Epic Spell Focus or Epic Weapon Focus instead of Favored Enemy. I don't know enough about high-level druids to say for sure. The boons of a level 30 Animal Companion might be signifigant.

Not too many spawns have TS, to be honest. Especially melee spawns. You can deal with those that do, just like every other class. You should be sturdy enough to live until help arrives; you generally don't die too fast on Amia. My wizard usually does just fine with vanilla Invisibility.

Hmm, a Ranger level would be nice yeah.
So you're suggesting that there may be a significant boost in abilities between level 28-29-30 for the companion? Can anyone confirm?

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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