AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Using the cart system to transport Captives

This is a question I've had in my head for some time now.

If someone has captured someone else, are they allowed to use the cart system to transport that captive? Because in my mind, that seems wrong. Since I can't imagine the cart drivers transporting people being held at sword point. Nor can I imagine captains of boats willingly transporting people in such situations.

Can I get a clarification about this please?

Knock them out and stuff them inside a bag of holding.

Die from no air.
There is no air in a bag of holding (apparently)

Shame on you. Bag of holding is just... meh. Stuff them in a crate marked building supplies instead.

Anyway, point is. Would the cart drivers transport someone being held against their will?

I'd imagine this might need DM supervision. I doubt cart drives would put themselves in that kind of danger, just for a couple gold coins. Hell, they dump you on the side of the road at the sight of a bunny's enlarged shadow, for the love of god!

But of course, DM's say what's up.

Since they drop you to the road at the least sign of trouble, I question their morale compass. But they wont like trouble either, I guess. A portal or going by foot is the way to go I suppose, since the cart driver is still a NPC and you can't know their individual reaction. There's a lot of them.

Well, you don't have to keep a blade at a guy's throat to keep him with you. Could be a bit more subtle.

"Oh yes, Mr. Driver, we need to get to Sandy Beach, posthaste! Don't mind my friend, he's just a bit sick and/or had too much to drink. That's why he's sweating and shaking his head and giving you the bug eyes." *Jabs the captive in the back with a small dagger to help him emphasize the point*

Not a question that's ever been asked before, to my knowledge. But it is a good one. I'm not going to give it a specific answer save that you're probably best off grabbing a DM if the idea bothers you.

However, I will say this: the fact that it happens is almost certainly part of why adventurers have a bad reputation in places like Cordor (who have the plug-in through stories disseminated by merchants and merchant elements like ACTF subsidiary, Amian Cart Services). All you have to do is hold these commoners at swordpoint when you're transporting a captive and they're probably just going to let you have a cart and ox, or give you passage in exchange for, you know...not getting killed.

I'd agree with the swordpoint thing IF I could kill that damned cart driver in Cordor West that dumps Xal off the cart every time he uses it.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Die from no air.
There is no air in a bag of holding (apparently)

Puncture a few holes then. :roll:

You know, I'm pretty sure that in RL, getting hit with a giant axe 10 times in a row would shapeshift you into an epic pudding. However, it seems that most of characters on Amia can survive this. So let's not seek a needle in the hay. If you got pwned in PvP, and people want to capture you (and i dont mean you but generally), just roll with it and accept their terms. You'll have some fun, and in 45 minutes tops, your character will be back, hanging around Cordor square like it never happened.

So you people are saying that they would refuze to transport a captive who's hanging a giant axe above their head? What makes you think that, at such point, they would think about what's good or wrong. Their job is to transport, not to be paladin, side up with goodies or anything similar.

In short:

Yossarin wrote:

All you have to do is hold these commoners at swordpoint when you're transporting a captive and they're probably just going to let you have a cart and ox, or give you passage in exchange for, you know...not getting killed.

That'd cause the Bag of Holding to cease funciton.

Dead, your post is dangerously close to trying to tell people what to do as if you are a DM. You are not.

Quote:

Puncture a few holes then

Puncturing a hole in a bag of holding sends the entire contents into oblivion, and if it weren't for the fact that in a context where bags of holding are incredibly easy to get and so can be abused as pseudo weapons, and for the fact thta A BAG OF HOLDING'S OPENING WILL NOT FIT A PERSON THROUGH IT, then it would really be something to worry about.

If you have a body, carry the body. You went through the trouble of dealing them.... have fun getting rid of your evidence.

Quote:

If you got pwned in PvP, and people want to capture you (and i dont mean you but generally), just roll with it and accept their terms. You'll have some fun, and in 45 minutes tops, your character will be back, hanging around Cordor square like it never happened.

This is an insult to a great deal of the server, and isb being said by someone who helps propagate the very statement they insinuate as a problem, nd so I say: The solution begins with you. If you wantonly kill less, then it begins to mean more. IT's as simple as that, folks.

For the record I was being sarcastic about the holes.

It would not be big enough to fit a person, but it is big enough to fit a double-axe, full plate armor, few helms and a great sword? Putting people in bags of holding is something that is being RPed on the server, commonly, so if you guys think that it's impossible, let the rest of the server know that.

It's an insult only to those who are not a sport and whine once being captured. Didn't point fingers. And not my problem if someone is finding himself in my post.

when platemail is put into a bag of holding i see it as taking each part of that platemail apart, obviously it wouldnt fit all put together. ie. you put the arm plate in, belt, chest piece etc. since it is composed of many small pieces. weapons and other things usually arent the girth of a persons waist imo unless you're dealing with an anorexic elf or a halfling but you can't really expose those people to different "get in the bag" rp than anyone else. if someone tried stuffing me in a bag of holding i would request they dismantle all my platemail, cut all my limbs off and then stuff me in there

i honestly don't think people can actually get stuffed in there anyways, i just see it as a workaround of allowing people to kill others and transport them about areas they shouldnt be able to. anyone who would need to transport their victims across a vast amount of space, imo, should just be more prepared. i know i wouldn't subject myself to doing something as stupid as rping putting my victims corpse in a bag of holding, seems lame to me. just from the prospective of a player, thats all.

Dead wrote:

.....Putting people in bags of holding is something that is being RPed on the server, commonly, so if you guys think that it's impossible, let the rest of the server know that......

I find myself having to agree with this (for all my opinion is actually worth....)

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Die from no air.
There is no air in a bag of holding (apparently)

"If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate." From the *d20 SRD. Of course, 10 minutes isn't enough for a cart ride, so whenever transporting captives held by means of questionable legality and using a bag of holding, always have a charged portal wand handy with the appropriate locations connected!

Of course, in PnP you could use a bottle of air to extend this, but I'm not sure if there's any way to make this apply in Amia. Aside from filling the bag with water and then making them wear a water-breathing ring or something. Would that work? Perhaps 'tis something for another topic.

*If Amia has specifics on it which differ, my apologies, please ignore.

Oh right,

TormakSaber wrote:

A BAG OF HOLDING'S OPENING WILL NOT FIT A PERSON THROUGH IT

Would work on the BoH in the SRD, but since it might well be different in Amia (reasonably so, what with the senseless abuse that can occur with extradimensional spaces) my point may be moot.

A bag of holding will fit a person in it, they are quite large, similar to a military gunny sack, two by four feet for a Bag of Holding I, I believe.
I thought there was enough air for an hour, but I'm not sure on that, I need to check my sources.

Bag of Holding
This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag’s contents, depend on the bag’s type, as shown on the table below.

Type I 15 lb. 250 lb. 30 cu. ft. 2,500 gp
Type II 25 lb. 500 lb. 70 cu. ft. 5,000 gp
Type III 35 lb. 1,000 lb. 150 cu. ft. 7,400 gp
Type IV 60 lb. 1,500 lb. 250 cu. ft. 10,000 gp

The pounds are weight limits for the bags, the cubis feet are volume limits. A person -will- fit, at least according to d&d rules. Furthermore... If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate.

The question isn't whether or not there's enough space in the bag, the problem is with the mouth of the bag. It doesn't open wide enough on the material plane to stuff a person through the hole. If you try to you'll tear it and everything in the extra-dimmensional space will appear at your feat. The bag would be ruined forever.

its two feet wide, your telling me your shoulders are broader than two feet?

Just checked, after you said that... They're exactly two feet. So I could squeeze through with no problem since I'm not some giant guy with 40 strength, and armor on. Either way I was talking about the Amian homebrew version if you will. If a DM says you don't fit than you don't fit.

Then the bag of holding should be listed somewhere with things that have been changed from D&D core rules. Perhaps if we could have a list of anything else that has been changed, because as dead says, many people rp putting people in them. Therefore many people have no idea that it has been changed. Or better yet, stick to core rules, and leave the homebrew for special requests.

Bags of holding are a rather cheap way to transport people.. Especially since bags of holding can easily rupture if punctured.. from both the outside and inside. Plus people inside have only 10 minutes of air before they begin to suffocate. Dumping someone into a bag of holding with spiked armor, sharp edges or whatever would have a rather high change of having the bag rupture, I'd say.

Bags of holding are the unimaginative captor's security blanket.

Gravemaskin wrote:

Bags of holding are the unimaginative captor's security blanket.

It works in PnP, we stuffed a dude into one so he would suffocate, when he was dead, we removed him and cut him up. One of the group wanted to eat him so...it can be creative, if not, than a means for RP.
Too bad we didn't have an officially licensed Tony Montana chainsaw.

Agreed wholeheartidly. My issue is trying to figure out what is Homebrew, whats still actual D&D, and all the rest. I have seen a Dm say one thing, that homebrew is bad. If we are homebrew, it should be clearly shown on the forum. Many people may be expecting D&D here, in a D&D game.

It is D&D, only modified.
Even the DMG states that these rules are a guideline.

Lavek wrote:

If a DM says you don't fit than you don't fit.

First rule of D&D. DM is always right. If so, then let DMs say that it doesn't fit. And let everyone know that.

Gravemaskin wrote:

Plus people inside have only 10 minutes of air before they begin to suffocate..

In 99% of the cases, people are ALREADY DEAD when being transported in bags of holding.

serbiris wrote:

If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate." From the *d20 SRD. Of course, 10 minutes isn't enough for a cart ride.

Even if so, you can open the bag every 5 minutes, during the cart ride, let some air inside, and close it. It is not that the cart driver will be taking a peak at your bags, even if there's some strange sounds coming from them. Unless the cart driver is Jason Statham aka Frank Martin.

Gotta say. The explanations being given are like watching someone grasping at breadcrumbs.

Take the Drow approach, force the cowardly cart driver to transport you and the captive, or our favorite, kill the cart driver, take his cart and transport yrself hehe

Ps second rule of D&D, the rules are guidelines and should never be absolute.
Bags of holding usually have volume and cubic feet listings, meaning the can hold air. I use to use one upside down over a characters head as scuba gear to cross deep water in plate armor.
Also, should you put some one you hate in such a bag and let them die, they are dead forever. Bags of holding interiors are space on another plane, and even true rez auto fails if not cast on the same plane they died on. So toss that pally you hate so much in a bag of holding and burry it some place lol
Finally, being a diver I can assure you that with 80 cubic feet of air you have an hours worth at moderate activity, a lot more if perhaps relaxed or unconcious.

Except it says you have ten minute,s so you have ten minutes.

Ten minutes works

Ten in game or real time minutes?

Here's an idea, stuff 'em in up to their shoulders and keep their head poking out, gag it, make up a story about it, whatever.

"Don't mind the talking head, here's your fifty gold."

Don't forget the flashlight.

Cast continual light on a gem and toss it in!

If you made sure they where weed plants you could double the usefulness.

Anyway, so from what I gather from this thread there is really no legit way to use the cart system while having a captive? Not without a DM controlling the cart NPC (Since PC's don't get to dictate NPC behavior).

Phearnun wrote:

Shame on you. Bag of holding is just... meh. Stuff them in a crate marked building supplies instead.

Just do this, make sure they're not concious either. Why would the Cart guy check inside the box? He doesn't care, to him its 50g for helping you transport cargo.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

If you made sure they where weed plants you could double the usefulness.

Anyway, so from what I gather from this thread there is really no legit way to use the cart system while having a captive? Not without a DM controlling the cart NPC (Since PC's don't get to dictate NPC behavior).

I agree with this, pretty much. I could see as a legitimate arguement if you were someone of legitimate authority in the region transferring a captive, then maybe.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Anyway, so from what I gather from this thread there is really no legit way to use the cart system while having a captive? Not without a DM controlling the cart NPC (Since PC's don't get to dictate NPC behavior).

I'd say, if there's NPC guards near the cart drivers, and no DMs to controll the guards, than its not legit.

If there's a lonely cart driver with approximately 9hp, who wants to live a long life, and doesn't give a damn if evilz are transporting captured goodz, than the answer is obvious.

But that's just me.

Person X. About forty years old, grizzled veteran of countless battles. Retires, drives carts, will kick your ass. Nuff said. NPC metagaming is a no no.

Just remember that as a player you can't play an NPC. If you can't get a DM then just skim over the whole thing and just agree with your captive PCs player that you were smooth enough to get a ride without getting stopped

I remember the countless times playing PnP that you can be a new starter group of.. well, rogues, then try to mug an old guy with a parrot on his shoulder, then the parrot turns into a Dragon. I suppose this could apply here.

Train your parrot to shout "Orcus!" then sell it instead :mrgreen:

Dead wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Anyway, so from what I gather from this thread there is really no legit way to use the cart system while having a captive? Not without a DM controlling the cart NPC (Since PC's don't get to dictate NPC behavior).

I'd say, if there's NPC guards near the cart drivers, and no DMs to controll the guards, than its not legit.

If there's a lonely cart driver with approximately 9hp, who wants to live a long life, and doesn't give a damn if evilz are transporting captured goodz, than the answer is obvious.

But that's just me.

Sounds like the kind of thinking that regularly gets so many evil players in trouble with the DM's. Just because your character can beat a 9hp Cart Driver, doesn't mean anything really. There are a lot of variables, number one being he may drive off without you.

Good original question. pity the topic crawls up its own ass right from the start! ahem... 0:)

*makes a personal note to have a snorkel handy for the next time she is 'bagged'* (sarcasm)

Selvec Darkon wrote:

There are a lot of variables, number one being he may drive off without you.

And get killed tomorrow instead of today? And risking his own life for 50gp per drive?

Dead wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

There are a lot of variables, number one being he may drive off without you.

And get killed tomorrow instead of today? And risking his own life for 50gp per drive?

Driving a cart through monster filled area's is already pretty harrowing. I highly doubt they have any issue risking their lives. Its because you don't know what the NPC would do that you shouldn't assume.

Exactly, no one (save a DM) should assume anything of what an NPC does, particularly.

Using the cart system to transport Captives

Who is online