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Dark Immolation
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 Posted: Wed, Feb 02 2011, 19:25 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Which is fine. Because Epics on Amia are really that epic(yielding to whatever DMs call.)
But famous NPCs are not bound to that law.
The same Balor's Elminster had "trouble" with back in hell would certainly give "trouble" to any group of Epics on Amia. There's no need to assume that every balor everywhere in Realmspace is just as tough though, so it's fine to have our "Amia" balors too.
_________________  You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Wed, Feb 02 2011, 19:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Not it isn't. A balor is suppose to be a Ass-raping monster that has trained EONS (Since they're immortal) with magic and weapon. And you're standing against this creature with your piddy adventurer.
It's suppose to be Overwhelming, But it isn't.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Feb 02 2011, 19:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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It would be, if you weren't overwhelming yourself.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Wed, Feb 02 2011, 20:03 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Very_Svensk wrote: Not it isn't. A balor is suppose to be a Ass-raping monster that has trained EONS (Since they're immortal) with magic and weapon. I'm not saying they're not. But they're certainly not all equal across the board. An elder balor from the 667th plane of the Abyss who was present at the signing of the Pact Primeval is not the same balor that's standing around in the suburbs of Zanshibon. It's all relative. Our "piddy" adventurers are "piddy" when compared to some epic beings. They're quite adequate when compared to others. It's not the categorical situation you're seeing it as. _________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Zinovy
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Posted: Wed, Feb 02 2011, 20:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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Quote: A balor is suppose to be a Ass-raping monster that has trained EONS (Since they're immortal) with magic and weapon. Quote: It's strictly banned on Amia. RPing out a rape scene, as well as including it in a current storyline both are prohibited. Explicit rape, implicit rape, doesn't matter. OOC consent and agreement between all parties involved doesn't make it acceptable, either. It's banned. Period. I've never had this problem with balors, but I'm disappointed to hear about their behaviour.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Wed, Feb 02 2011, 20:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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If you see any balors at it, let us know. Let the banhammer swing...
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Wed, Feb 02 2011, 23:14 PM |
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Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Nekhy wrote: We didn't want to give just some genasi ECL0. It had to be all or nothing. Earth genasi is under observation now, and there may be future tweaks in addition to the latest tweak, if necessary. Heh, I just saw this comment... I would have thought the balance team would have spotted this faux pas sooner.
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Ulir
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 2:06 AM |
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Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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This topic has derailed quite a bit, eh?
_________________ 
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 2:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quite. At page one, no less.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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tsukasa1991
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 3:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
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just saying... balors START at cr 20...
then they get class levels...
and are eons old...
think about that.
_________________
Plays-
Maggot Bucktooth (Retired)
Giando Paladrious (Retired)
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 4:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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They are not all eons old. You overestimate how things work. Most are quite old though, yes.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 4:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Indeed and they come in Hordes because that is what the Abyss is all about. I'm personally not even thinking about removing the Balors because this is an epic server and the highest tier of monsters should remain thus.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Uberuce
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 11:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Not what I was getting at. Rather making area's & balance choices designed to beat the shit out of powerbuilds encourages it. Because what happens is that by default if you nerf things from the perspective of a build that's extremely strong, and make it so how it's used is more challenging, what your doing is also nerfing the basic builds and non-powerbuilds. This means in order to effectively play without having a hair tearing time of things, you need to build a powerbuild of your own. Paladin/BG saves. Monk AC. Divine Might/Favour. Discuss.
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 11:17 AM |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Uberuce wrote: Paladin/BG saves. Monk AC. Divine Might/Favour. Discuss. Time to nerf tumble AC? _________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Magiros
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 13:04 PM |
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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Nothing constructive to say else than would love to see monsters stronger. (Will hate it that cant solot but then again, the rp experience from a hunt could be better.)
_________________
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm
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Vaul Tarrith
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 19:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Location: 9th Circle of Hell...with the steaks and Rum
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If someone doesn't lock this thread soon, we'll all be playing human Commoners with a level 10 cap... Now THAT is BALANCE, baby!! 
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 21:33 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Vaul Tarrith wrote: If someone doesn't lock this thread soon, we'll all be playing human Commoners with a level 10 cap.. I would like that. Well, I'd include other setting-appropriate subraces too, but that sounds like an environment where you could maintain some atmosphere and danger. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 21:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Hahahaha
True. My dream version of Amia would be level 20 cap and different races only being cosmetic.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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My Sovereign
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 22:38 PM |
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Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Hahahaha
True. My dream version of Amia would be level 20 cap and different races only being cosmetic. SHUT UP!
_________________
- "The fiend is less hideous in his own shape....then when he rages in the breast of man"
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 22:47 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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IronAngel wrote: Vaul Tarrith wrote: If someone doesn't lock this thread soon, we'll all be playing human Commoners with a level 10 cap.. I would like that. Well, I'd include other setting-appropriate subraces too, but that sounds like an environment where you could maintain some atmosphere and danger. I don't play Amia to play Sims, goddammit. Adventurers can become Epic. They fight and kill century-year-old creatures. They save the world. They can massage, mend, and break the very fabric of reality through intellect, faith, force of will, or matter. They serve powers that can create or destroy this world and the next. Some even become those forces. And they slay the [removed] out of Balors. Get over it, people. _________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Silvarus
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 22:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Dark Immolation wrote: I don't play Amia to play Sims, goddammit.
Adventurers can become Epic. They fight and kill century-year-old creatures. They save the world. They can massage, mend, and break the very fabric of reality through intellect, faith, force of will, or matter. They serve powers that can create or destroy this world and the next. Some even become those forces.
And they slay the [removed] out of Balors.
Get over it, people. Word
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 23:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Dark Immolation wrote: IronAngel wrote:
I don't play Amia to play Sims, goddammit.
Adventurers can become Epic. They fight and kill century-year-old creatures. They save the world. They can massage, mend, and break the very fabric of reality through intellect, faith, force of will, or matter. They serve powers that can create or destroy this world and the next. Some even become those forces.
And they slay the [removed] out of Balors.
Get over it, people.
What you describe sounds like some children's fantasy comic book or Hollywood film, which can be a cool genre but not one I want from my RP. But that's just me, and we can put issues of taste aside. It is simply a fact that NWN at level 10 is better balanced, the combat is cooler and more tactical, the variety of monster models can be put to better use and the world is simply designed for that. There's no getting over the fact that Amian spawns make little IC sense, no matter how you try to twist and turn it. Brogendenstein orcs are almost as challenging as hordes of tanar'ri? You can raid the strongholds of magical monsters, but wolves and chickens will give you a hard time? That's not an Amian problem, it's simply a problem with high levels and the monsters available. I'm not saying it's a big deal, but trying to pretend it's not an issue at all is ridicilous. I'm not suggesting we should lower the level cap, but it would be cooler. We're not magical heroes in fairytale land, we're a ragtag crowd of would-be adventurers in a dark and gritty world where our career is more likely to end in our untimely demise than not. That's my taste, and while it's not the only one it certainly has nothing to do with Sims and isn't the kind of absurd extreme Vaul tried to present it as. Of course we shouldn't be fighting hordes of balors, illithids, beholders or whatever. That has nothing to do with level and our ability to defeat those monsters, but simply the fact that the world doesn't have hordes of high-level monsters who're dumb enough to continuously throw themselves at adventurer swords. You can kill a balor, I'm cool with that. But why would some backwater layer of the Abyss be full of epic balors wandering around aimlessly, just waiting to be butchered one by one? Big bad monsters are better used as bosses, lest we have to come up with new homebrew bosses with no flavor because none of the traditional bad guys are scary anymore. Big Bad Guys are not hordes of sword fodder at any level, so we should come up with more imaginative challenges that give XP without killing a hundred challenging monsters. Despite the balor example, monsters on the Prime Material are more of an issue because admittedly the Abyss does have a theme of "senseless magical slaughter grounds," by the way. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 23:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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I share those frustrations.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 23:38 PM |
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Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 23:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Grmblrbm... Been trying to say that all along. With less wording.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Feb 03 2011, 23:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Cool is sbjective. I find slaying Balors quite a bit cooler than being level 10, after all.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Fri, Feb 04 2011, 0:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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But Im going to assume that you also think it's cool to play in a setting appropriate to lore also? It's a matter of what weigh the most.
And that's, as you say, subjective.
I really don't mind butchering balors. It's fun. It's almost even hard sometimes! But in the back of my mind a little Dnd nerd screams of rage.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Feb 04 2011, 0:06 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Our setting is appropriate to our lore, and anyone who says otherwsie, I give the finger to and say "You're wrong, because we are the lore and we say so."
We are capable of manufacturing threats bigger than Balors anyways, and they do not need to be demons or devils or fallen angels or engines of destruction.
Sometimes the most destructive threats are simply human.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Fri, Feb 04 2011, 0:16 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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IronAngel wrote: [That stuff he said] Well that's understandable about the sword-fodder and what not. But there's nothing "rag tag" about a lv 30 [insert class]. That is certainly not to say that there are numerous, numerous, more powerful [insert class] out in our FR world, as there are if they ever came to Amia, but that doesn't in turn water them down necessarily. The level cap is not where RP begins, either. Or at least, it shouldn't be. If we did lower the cap, it's more like saying "we don't think your RP can be meaningful without you being at a lower, more 'realistic' level". Which again, it shouldn't be. There's just RP on different scales. A lv 10 adventurer may save a town. A level 20 may save a kingdom. A lv 30 is out there doing things that determine the course of history. But I realize that it's a lot easier for our DM's to impress, plan for, and set up plots for low levels. And its a lot easier to wrap one's mind around the stuff that occurs on that level too(I could see myself saving a person's life, I have no idea what it would really feel like to save a nation or the world). If it bothers people like they say it does, just keep your PCs at a lower level. I do that for more than one of my characters, at least temporarily. I don't feel their story has progressed to the point that would merit them being as powerful as they will be at max, and so, I do not level them as such. And with that, I fully accept there are more powerful people and creatures, PC and NPC, than my character that may be involved in his/her story. And to say that what I describe is fairytale fantasy...well...yes. It is. What else do you call it when people can stop time, call meteors from the sky, split a man in two with a single flick of his hand, and all of the other things adventurers may do at the higher levels? I'm not saying they're invunerable, the most interesting superheroes aren't, but they are superhumanoid, plain and simple. And I always hate it when we try to water them down like they're something they're not. Of course DM's get to set the parameters of what adventurers are capable of, but in a world where our rules of reality don't exist, there is principally no need to superimpose our own expectation of plausibility on them. Epic is as Epic does. If I have a character that can lift an ox over his head, throw fireballs that can utterly burn to death a crowd of bandits, and evoke forces that make him run twice as fast as a normal man, what is he? Some would say that's fairytale. Some would say superhero. And they'd both be right. There's no reason to kid ourselves. Note: I'm not saying all adventurers are superhuman. Certainly a lv 5 fighter has a lot more in common with a regular joe. Hell, up to level 20, he plausibly still is for most purposes. But Epic is that which trancends the "joe", the Zero that becomes the Hero, goes outside, climbs the mountain, gets to the top and moons God while saying "Do something about it!." _________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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HellScourge
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Posted: Fri, Feb 04 2011, 7:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1
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TormakSaber wrote: We are capable of manufacturing threats bigger than Balors anyways, and they do not need to be demons or devils or fallen angels or engines of destruction.
Bebelith Broodmothers. *sagenods* They snack on Balors for breakfast! _________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder." TeroSNS wrote: Hello Everyone [...] I like tentacles [...] 
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Feb 04 2011, 10:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Undoer.
Elf Eater.
List goes on. There are LOT's of epic monsters.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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American_Knight
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Posted: Sat, Feb 05 2011, 9:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Location: The United States of America
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...Looking back to the Origin of the thread... The Genasi have pretty good benefits, but I see the drawbacks as rather deadly. I've been on the receiving end on my shifter, believe me, outsider slaying arrows HURT. People seem most worried by the Earth Genasi, they've got 100 temporary DR +5 that is bypassed by any damage over 10 (quite common as I understand it) Any elemental damage, and +5 weapons. They get +2 Str and Con while losing -2 Wis and Cha. Most importantly, they are given Outsider status. This is just my immediate list off the top of my head Pros: -Easier to acquire Strength feats/Constitution feats -Temporary Damage Reduction (lessened effectiveness say around levels 20+?) -Immunity to Hold/Charm/Dominate Person, Tasha's laughter, other spells targeting humanoids Cons: -Discouraged Wisdom -2(will modifier suffers) and socially awkward -2 Charisma -If RPed correctly, easily identified to introduce the following complication -Outsider status... <Any Good/Evil domain cleric can "Turn" you <Various spells(and arrows) "Banish" you into instant doom <(Untested) Racial prestige classes are unavailable I'm all for removing the adjustment, the benefits can be matched by many methods and the drawbacks can hinder you terribly. I believe there are a few Epic Bosses that happen to make good use of some spells that remove your summons, and if that happened to be Banishment, you're in for some nasty hunting. 10 DR for 10 hits isn't the biggest boost, my main does over 40 damage every hit without a crit, and he's not necessarily a "powerbuild." Shadowdancer assassins, truestrike weapons, strength fighters, any elemental damage and not to mention a Dispel could strip the brief advantage along the line. I just want to ask, as outsiders, aren't they bound to the Material plane? My point being where are they "Banished" to?
_________________
"Truth, Justice, and the American way..." "Give me Liberty or give me Death"
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Sat, Feb 05 2011, 9:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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American_Knight wrote: <(Untested) Racial prestige classes are unavailable
Consider it tested. Once your race changes to Outsider, you are unable to take certain classes.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Feb 05 2011, 10:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: I just want to ask, as outsiders, aren't they bound to the Material plane? My point being where are they "Banished" to? To death.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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oshizo2
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 19:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: USA, Mississippi
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uh i'm checked this thread and all i hear about are genasai.. are there any other changes or are those the only ones.
_________________
Iman Emanni: Learned, wanderer, dangerous
Jurl Blackskull: Why people fear the underdark.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 19:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Only ones.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Jehran
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Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 19:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
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Elflings and Shadow Elves also lost their ECL's
_________________
Jehran- Elven Enchantment Wizard
Prink- Jehran's Familar
Joe Bloggs-Just your average guy
Madock-Vassal of the Black Hound.
Vanassidur-Druid/Ranger of Mielikki
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DoomKnight
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Posted: Fri, Apr 01 2011, 5:15 AM |
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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I just want to point out that I find it funny that for the first two pages, the BANITE players (AKA the 'omglolpwnzor powerbuilders') were complaining about balance and powerbuilding. Heheh. hehehehehehe. *Hides from the firestorm*
_________________
The Incredible Johnny Space
'Sand'
The Shadow
Master Lemming
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Apr 01 2011, 5:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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And with that inflammatory comment, that earns a lock. I'm extremely disappointed in you. Why did you even feel the need to disparage a faction like that? You are damn lucky you're not eating a forum ban fr that random trolling.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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