Hm. So. I know, I know I try too hard to do everything right on this server (in some minds) but hear me out. It's a game, I like to have fun, and it's really hard (for me) to have fun when you (I) find yourself breaking rules that you didn't know existed because all you wanted to do was play a damn game and not read all the effing rules first. That might sound hostile because it is a little hostile, but it's not flaming. I just would rather stop any patronizing of my questions upfront because it's all a bit tiring sometimes.

My curiosity started in Nivo's request. I've never seen a request for the title of a non-NWN prc class-- I've only ever heard of Tormy calling Torin a soulknife. But I thought that was due to the special abilities he requested, not that he requested being a soulknife or the title or anything first.



Nivo's request and these guidelines we discussed briefly still don't answer my detail oriented mind on the subject of non-NWN specialized classes. I understand that this is all necessary in a rebuild, but it does not detail to me the rules about PrCs that are not NWN-based. Hear my argument. He's technically still 30 wizard. He could just rebuild his wizard levels without adding in all the Fatespinner "RP flavor" into the topic (because in the topic Nivo states himself that it doesn't add anything unless the DMs say it does) and it wouldn't be breaking any rules for him to then call himself a Fatespinner IG after the rebuild without having had included it in the request to the DMs (at least at this point) from what I can see. Where does a rule state anything about calling NWN levels a non-NWN prc?

I don't want rules about rebuilds, but am making the point that PrCs that are not NWN-based could be similar to races that are not NWN-based. I have this itching voice in the back of my head that says someone (or perhaps myself) could or will get dramatized to have played it all wrong because they didn't know about unwritten rules. (I'm not saying who will do the dramatizing, either. It could be a DM or a player-- I just think it could happen at some point so why not approach the subject now?)

Is there something in the rules stopping me from claiming my assassin (or wizard or paladin) levels are some other PrC instead that's not in NWN? Is it like nobility? Where you can claim it from somewhere else but it has no effect on the NPCs/world here unless asked for? Do PrCs really matter besides flavor? Can claims to PrCs such as Fatespinner or Platinum Knight have an effect on NPCs? Is it up to the discretion of the DM? The questions in Nivo's request for this PrC are pertinent here as well (the ones asking if his abilities cannot be scripted in, can they be used in Events, etc).

Eventually I could take a non-NWN PrC with one of my characters and I'd like to know how to go about it. Right now.. I'm not sure. Is it necessary to request? IF so, why? Etc etc. Perhaps this is all tedious to some of you DMs, but it's also tedious to some of us players too. There are rules I've broken because I was never aware there needed to be rules about that stuff because I thought people were relaxed enough to not be dramatic. So now I'm a little anal about all of it because I just don't feel like breaking rules or getting in trouble should I want to go down this path. Thanks for any input!

Psh. My thoughts on this arguement, and believe my words as they govern the fundamental foundation of almost anything... Ever.

When you purchase a game, you have done an act of selfishness. When you play that game, you are also being selfish (Selfish often has a negative connotation that I wouldn't be able to effectively, or coherrently argue at this point in time) - selfishness is an act of doing something for one's self. So naturally, when you enter the realm of Amia (as this is the prime and most fitting example) you are entering a world full of ego and wonder. Each and every player is playing for themselves.

However, that is both what I endorse and what can also be the problem. A player's ego needs to be quelched in order to fit suitably into this realm; as this realm - despite it's ostentatious fantasy-based orientation, is a reality. That reality needs to be governed, and those governers are the DMs that are appointed to the task of declaring, invigorating and inciting the laws, stories, and guidelines of our realm; of Amia.

So of course you're going to be butt-hurt when someone says 'Hey. No. You cannot do this,' or 'Hey - we are the authority and the power here, we ultimately make the decisions of what you can and can't do.' (Which i believe is the problem you are currently feeling.)

But this is all simple politics and restrictions put in place, ultimately, to defend against power. I don't mean power as in power-gamers (although that is a clause in this arguement), I mean power from all types. The DMs are in control, and therefore they need to ensure that control is asserted upon the players so the players understand the simple discourse of the server.

What you need to understand is that these DMs aren't gods. These DMs aren't professionally trained politicians or leaders - they're fat nobodies sitting at a computer desk; or aspiring writers, or your average student, or your relatively under-estimated field of expertise entrepeneurs: in all they are humans. They will make mistakes, and like all humans they are subject to that terrible Fatal Flaw given unto all of us - human error. Most of what they're doing is trial and error. Do they over-exagerrate situations that are relatively small? Sometimes, yes? Do they govern the players too firmly? In my opinion, yes. Do they do their best at something that gives relatively nothing in return apart from the satisfaction of encouraging creativity? Probably.

My point is - do what you bloody well want; flex your ego with your awesome PrC build in hopes that it will add some integrity to your duty of roleplay; shake off that underlying, malicious comment made by a DM trying to piss on your parade if you want: - as long as you aren't a Mary Sue and can justfiy for your choices coherently, I don't give a shit.

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'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'

I play 2* "proxy" non-NWN PRCs one that I had to get approved (Warlock) before hand, and one I just emulated to the best of my abilities (Warsling Sniper).
Eli had to get approved as Warlocks introduce a different variety of Arcanist and, in order to best emulate the abilities, did/will require a number of DC item requests that are script based. Requests will continue to be required for invocations that a sorcerer just can't mimmic. However, with that DM stamp on there and the privilege that comes with it (note I say privilege and not right), I can say 100% that Eli is a warlock.

Toby, on the other hand, didn't require anything special and he fit all the requirements for the class within the realm of possibility in NWN. However despite my own given backstory, unless I get the DMs to really sign off on the title of Warsling Sniper, all it remains is a title.

The way I percieve the difference in 'claiming' to be a non-NWN PRC without approval and actually obtaining said approval boils down to this:
IE (without DM approval): A Hin NPC from Luiren shows up, a true Warsling Sniper, sees Toby claiming the title of one and straight out puts Toby in his place with a friendly game of trick shooting.

IE (with DM approval): A Hib NPC from Luiren shows up, a true Warsling Sniper, sees Toby claiming the title of one, recognizes his talents as mirroring his own, and greets him as a fellow Warsling Sniper.

I hope that makes sense.
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*Nina bears the rank of Eldritch Knight within an organization and while I try my best to play her as semi-knightly it is not to say her build is a stand in for the actual PRC of the same name.

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

You typically don't need to request special base or prestige classes, with some qualifications: you cannot claim any powers you can't actually simulate with the mechanics, and those powers are subject to the same limitations as any vanilla class with those abilities. That is to say, you're not excempt from deity restrictions, somatic spell components or whatever by virtue of pretending to be something other than an NWN class. So your special spell you simulate with a wizard level is not a free action even if it would be in PnP, for example. And secondly, there are some extraordinary things that will require a request. These include High Magic and Psionics and some other things listed in R&L, and anything else the DM deem to be extraordinary. Use caution and common sense here, I guess. If it's a new type of magic entirely, it may need a request. Mundane classes and those who just combine traditional arcane or divine magic with something else should always be fair game.

Arcane Trickster, Breach Gnome, Bladesinger, Eldritch Knight, Shaman, Urban Ranger, Runescarred Berserker or whatever? That's always been fine. Don't claim you're a divine caster who doesn't need a deity or try use Paladin to simulate something with no code of conduct, though. I think it's pretty clear when you ask yourself, "Would this character as a vanilla class face some restrictions, and if so, will I adhere to them in my new interpretation?"

It's funny that anyone should even ask this, because it has always been an Amia staple. Not just an Amian thing, but almost the Amia thing. When I joined, the freedom of creativity was an important selling point of the server and everybody knew that. You wanted to play a primitive shaman of Mielikki and use cleric levels? Sure. You wanted to be a brawler with a monk levels? No problem. Times and points of interest change, I guess.

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Bingo.

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"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."

I made a Truenamer character and did him as a Special Character request because of the difference in what he actually would be compared to the base class I am using to represent him.

To me, I believe that PrC's are primarily RP flavour. On a minor scale they effect how one builds their character, and similarily how the character acts, but in the end I don't many people call others by the character Class.

Personally I play Jack Tesilent as both a Merchant Prince, and Duelist.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Merchant_Prince
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Duelist

Both due to how he acts. Merchant Prince being his insight in prices, how he deals with customers, attempting to make coin while keeping people happy as best he can, not to mention his high conversational skills (Bluff, Inti, Persuade) and his Appraise. Duelist being how he fights, crazy high parry skill added with AC and dodging.

Regardless if either of those PrC's are "Approved" or not by anyone other than myself, I couldn't care less. That is who Jack is, it is part of him, and nothing will change that.

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Jack Tesilent - Jack's Bio

You requested a Truenamer because of Truename magic, not because of the "Difference".

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Also true , Tormak. I admit freely I haven't played the fellow as much but I do get to playing him once in a while.

Thanks, Iron! Can you point out to me where this is in the Amian staple directions/rulebook/etc? I'll refrain from speaking on what should or shouldn't be common sense-- whew. I looked through all the topics I know about on this kind of stuff and couldn't see anything specific. Not only have rebuild rules gotten more strict, but when I start seeing someone request for something that they don't need to request for and getting approvals like it's the norm, I get confused as to whether there was a need to request for that sort of thing before or whether it's new or whether it's needed at all.

Perhaps putting that in somewhere would help as common sense as it seems to you or not. I figured it was as you said, but when Nivo said in his request that his "class ability requests are separate from the request for the PrC class," it really got me confused. Didn't know if requesting for the title was necessary to start requesting abilities, etc etc.

Oh and to clarify for ya:



I'm not upset about being denied or granted anything. I'm not upset at all! I just get annoyed when people say things like, "This question is obvious" or "common sense" when it obviously isn't to me if I'm asking.. and I was attempting to stop it before it happened! If only it always worked. Did my best. Some rules are far too complicated for me and the "common sense" of this server (and many multiplayer games) can be far too complicated for me to care. I did research and didn't find anything so I tend to ask privately first. If that doesn't work (which it didn't), I ask about these sorts of things to the public before I might get involved in breaking some rule.. That's all.

My feelings don't get that hurt.... I only get mildly annoyed. I do my best to stop even that from happening though, because even a mild annoyance can ruin a game that's meant for fun. It has for this server multiple times!

Haha, I didn't mean to be snide, especially not towards you. I was lamenting the change of the general server/forum culture that's lost sight of some things that used to be commonly agreed on. It's not your fault that you wouldn't know for sure; the fact that you even have to ask means it should be brought to public attention more vigorously.

The last topic I can recall that explicitly dealt with this was made by Aleph sometime in 2005 or 2006. Simulating Prestige Classes with NWN stuff was the subject matter, and back then it was pretty clear to everyone that this was fine (with some exceptions). That topic doesn't exist anymore. So yes, it's not like there's any clear information available.

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