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"Ilmater preserve, Broken One preserve... "

Similar idea.

There was a moment yesterday where if my character were in this world, he would have used the term "Achilles' heel". Not in the sense of the tendon, in the sense of the weakness.

Faerunian translation? :idea:

I think we can find some sort of story of weakness in either deity mythology or some epic NPC's life. I'm sure of it, I just can't think of it now. It sounds so naggingly familiar.

regarding cloaks post

Quote:

The use of “Achilles’ heel” as an expression used for “area of weakness, vulnerable spot” dates only to 1855 (Merriam-Webster).[5] It derived from the Greek "Achilleios pterna" (Greek: Αχίλλειος πτέρνα) literally meaning Achilles’ heel.

now, if we can figure out what the term for -it- was in 1854...

Glyph wrote:

regarding cloaks post

Quote:

The use of “Achilles’ heel” as an expression used for “area of weakness, vulnerable spot” dates only to 1855 (Merriam-Webster).[5] It derived from the Greek "Achilleios pterna" (Greek: Αχίλλειος πτέρνα) literally meaning Achilles’ heel.

now, if we can figure out what the term for -it- was in 1854...

Weak spot? Chink in the armor?

Dark Immolation wrote:

Rosencrantz wrote:

Only issue with that is it sort of implies you may enjoy that pain. Other solutions?

Well it could mean that you are calling out her name in a curse. Short for "Damn the bitch, Loviatar". And you'd likely shorten it to Lovi as her full name said out loud could be equated to a curse, I suppose.

Ilma! or Ilm! Might be a good one too, short for Illmater, like you're crying out for him to ease you pain.

"'Mater! This fecking hurts!"

Trouble is that an exclamation needs to flow phonetically, short and concise.

Jesus' wounds = "Zounds!"

Ilmater's wounds = "Zounds!"

Janna Ogder wrote:

Trouble is that an exclamation needs to flow phonetically, short and concise.

Which is why I suggest "Ilm!". Reactive expressions/curses are usually short when it comes to syllables. (Ouch, Aw, Eww, Damn, Zounds, 5 of Carlin's 7 words, etc.)

This might be a bit of a let-down, but I actually found out there are the equivalent of gypsies in the Realms already.

The Gur, or Gurs, are known as "Selûne's Children." They're nomads travelling the Western Heartlands in motley caravans. Gurs are believed to originate from Rashemen, at least by what few scholars have studied them.

Oh, no, that's actually kind of interesting. I wonder how much they're like gypsies we are familiar with, right down to duende and soforth.

Yossarin wrote:

Jesus' wounds = "Zounds!"

Ilmater's wounds = "Zounds!"

Same with 'swounds, 'strewth or 'sblood (god's wounds, truth, blood).

'Bloody' as a contraction of 'by Our Lady (the Virgin Mary)' would obviously need another source. Or it could simply be meant literally. Xavi uses 'bloody hells' as a curse on occasion and means it as a reference to the Abyss (obviously not correctly, but it sounds better than 'bloody abyss'), which place I imagine smells of blood on occasion, given all the torturing and screaming that goes on there.

Or you remember that Xaviera worships a Female deity, perhaps THE female deity of femininity and is thus perfectly empowered to use the contraction "By Our Lady".

When I hear "By Our Lady" in FR terms, my mind automatically goes to Selune! AKA Our Lady of Silver. However... yeah, no...

Our Lady of Silver, Our Fair Lady (Sune), The Lady of Mysteries, there's really no reason to contrive a new one when the current one works just fine.

Xaviera wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Jesus' wounds = "Zounds!"

Ilmater's wounds = "Zounds!"

Same with 'swounds, 'strewth or 'sblood (god's wounds, truth, blood).

'Bloody' as a contraction of 'by Our Lady (the Virgin Mary)' would obviously need another source. Or it could simply be meant literally. Xavi uses 'bloody hells' as a curse on occasion and means it as a reference to the Abyss (obviously not correctly, but it sounds better than 'bloody abyss'), which place I imagine smells of blood on occasion, given all the torturing and screaming that goes on there.

Or Bloody Hells, as in the 9 layers of hell that the devils rule over.

Last edited by billytheid on Thu, Nov 18 2010, 9:54 AM, edited 1 time in total.

I use that one all the time IC. Bloody Hells! Hells Bells! Tymora's Tits! All good for shock or surprise.

"By the Nine" is the coined term i believe.

TormakSaber wrote:

Or you remember that Xaviera worships a Female deity, perhaps THE female deity of femininity and is thus perfectly empowered to use the contraction "By Our Lady".

Very true. But the contraction of 'bloody' doesnt really fit Sharess. It could, however, be appropriate for a Loviataran to use it in that sense.

Xaviera wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Or you remember that Xaviera worships a Female deity, perhaps THE female deity of femininity and is thus perfectly empowered to use the contraction "By Our Lady".

Very true. But the contraction of 'bloody' doesnt really fit Sharess. It could, however, be appropriate for a Loviataran to use it in that sense.

Would depend on the time of the month I wager.

Plus for Lovi I'd rather say something like: "By the nine coiled whip!"

Yossarin wrote:

Oh, no, that's actually kind of interesting. I wonder how much they're like gypsies we are familiar with, right down to duende and soforth.

There's a short blurb in Races of Faerûn. It just says they're treated with suspicion, travel around in caravans or settle in a few cities, and they like divination. Their secretive faith is possibly what kept Savras alive when he was imprisoned and not actively involved in stuff. They're also said to be honorable or honor-bound or something (read it yesterday). So I guess it's a pretty direct loan of your stereotypical gypsy fortune-tellers with clear norms within the community. I haven't found any other source yet, not that I've looked. Maybe some Heartlands book would be more helpful.

Any Faerunian equaivalent to "Thats my cross to bear"

It came up as a possible response but I couldnt think of any similar expression.

Links and other sources of that would come in handy (if there are any), Iron. Never knew there was something similar to the real life gypsies, thanks.

And opinion about the thread: Good stuff. I would, however, draw the line after obvious stuff, such as christen and Achilles' heel, as the amount of words to change would go too extensive if we moved a step further from that.

Janna, you could probably find something in Tyr's or Ilmater's past.

I'd say Ilmater would work better than Tyr, as he's the God of martyrdom. But I don't know any lore-specific information on his past.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Links and other sources of that would come in handy (if there are any), Iron. Never knew there was something similar to the real life gypsies, thanks.

And opinion about the thread: Good stuff. I would, however, draw the line after obvious stuff, such as christen and Achilles' heel, as the amount of words to change would go too extensive if we moved a step further from that.

Janna, you could probably find something in Tyr's or Ilmater's past.

I agree. Etymologically dissecting every word wouldbe going too far, for probably half the english language is made up from historical references.

A very generic replacement would be "That's my rack to hang on", because Ilmater is the god who hangs on the rack and I suppose it's a common form of punishment.

Of course, "that's my cross to bear" has a deeper meaning that the rack doesn't convey: it's not only that you have to endure the fate and punishment given to you. In fact, you have to labor to be able to do it; you are the one to carry your own cross to the site of punishment so you can hang from it. You have to muster your strength to move forward not be crushed by your burden, only to get closer to your end with each step. The phrase is loaded with meaning, so I doubt you can translate it all into Faerûn.

Opustus: They're known as the Gur, or Gurs. As I said, Races Of Faerûn, one of the lesser human ethnicities. FRWiki seems to be correct about them:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Gur

There's some interesting theories over at Candlekeep about their origin in the east, if you can find the topic.

tyvm, Using Google would've been way too stressful. If you happen to stumble across any other miscellaneous information of the Gurs in future, and have nothing better to do, you're always free to share that bit of info with me.

You can probably take some flavor for the Gur by looking at the Hin race. Not much is said about the Gur that I know of. Hin are a pretty gypsy-like race though, imo.

Bump, and got a new one. Odyssey, a word that stems from that Greek hero Odysseus, meaning a grand quest, an adventure. This could be used all the time in Amia as everything's epic, and I'm sure many bards would love to verbally endorse that. We need a legendary mortal hero, and the only ones I know have either become gods (though that's not a problem) or is Elminster.

Elminstey? :mrgreen:

That's a good one, odyssey. It might have a slightly different interpretation/connotation in the setting if you consider the fact that Odysseus' quest wasn't so much a quest foisted upon him by the gods (Poseidon isn't the bad guy), but rather a long journey made painfully longer by Odysseus' own greed and piracy.

O: "We'll stop on this island. See that smoke over yonder? It means there are people here, and people have stuff, and I should have gotten more stuff from Troy but didn't."
Crew: "Bad idea, cap'n."

O: "See those cows? Those would make the best burgers in the world."
Crew: "O gods, nooo!"

O: "To Hades with your wives, lads; all the tits and ass we need are here!"
Crew: "Oink."

"Straddling two horses"

A very brave and/or foolish act. A reference to Tempus and how he is said to ride into battle standing atop two horses, on foot on the back of each. While a very brave and impressive act, it poses very little tactical advantage other than showboating, possibly to the person's own downfall.

John: "Hey, did you hear about that paladin of Corellon? He said he'd take all of the Banites on at once, whatever time and whatever place they pick."
Jacob: "Aye. He's really straddling two horses with that idea."

Replacing a RL word with an IC one doesn't remove the connotation for that word to exist. For example: racism. If it were replaced with another word, but then that word was still called on people who display xenophobic behavior with a negative connotation tied to the attitude of bigotry, then it would be just the same.

So, rather than suggesting a replacement for "racism", I'm suggesting it stop being in-game altogether and revert to good old pre-WW2 "hate for those guys" from RL - that is, without the "goodly" status associated with being anti-racist.

Zinovy wrote:

Replacing a RL word with an IC one doesn't remove the connotation for that word to exist. For example: racism. If it were replaced with another word, but then that word was still called on people who display xenophobic behavior with a negative connotation tied to the attitude of bigotry, then it would be just the same.

So, rather than suggesting a replacement for "racism", I'm suggesting it stop being in-game altogether and revert to good old pre-WW2 "hate for those guys" from RL - that is, without the "goodly" status associated with being anti-racist.

The word "racism" in this setting really bothers me, as well. My character(s) is called a racist often and I simply have him react like he doesn't know the meaning of the word. Then, when he is told its meaning, he acts as if being racist is the most normal thing in the world.

I think that some people forget that, while ultimately bad and wrong, racism is very much a part of the setting we're playing in. I don't think there is a single person in the FR setting that isn't at least a little bit racist. That's part of the fun of the world, the conflict that arises from the various prejudices, be it against drow, elves, humans, wizards, paladins, etc..

______

Also, another word to have a look at: Tantalize. Derived from Tantalus, Greek mythology.

I'm confused here... is the problem with the word "racism" or the perception of it by PC's?

The word racism simply means prejudice towards or in favor of one race over another. Which matches fine with FR's setting; there are plenty of people who think elves are superior, dwarves dirty, etc etc.

If you're complaining that PC's see "racism" as bad...well... that's not really up for discussion. Least not here. If a PC sees racism as bad or not, well, that's the PC, so be it, forget if it happens to be the norm. Just deal with it as you see fit. But the actual word "racism" is fine to use in the setting, for better or worse of our OoC connotations of it.

If a PC was about to get on my character for being a racist towards Kobolds, well he'd have no problem with that. Prolly say something to the effect of "Yes. I do think they are generally inferior things? Why? Because every time I step outside of the city, some of the more feral of the bastards try to kill me! Sure, there are some civilized ones, but I'm not gonna treat invite all of them to dinner just because there are a few that I have met that haven't tried to kill me." Replace "kobold" with drow, orcs, goblins, dwarves, what have you, and roll with the punches.

Thank you, Dark. I was hard pressed to explain that without a, "Read, understand, and make an effort to comprehend what this thread is about, please."

We're actually more interested in denotation here than connotation (although connotation is good, too, when it doesn't involve rehashing ancient complaints about the way other people roleplay on the server).

Yeah, I kinda knew that. I simply can't stop myself from responding to something that someone has written/said if I have a definite opinion on it.

In any case, I think my on-topic comment was somewhat hidden beneath the other part. I'll repost it here:

Also, another word to have a look at: Tantalize. Derived from Tantalus, Greek mythology.

Bast'ing? In reference to Sharess being a goddess of desires?

There's a pretty heavy negative connotation to the word "tantalize" though. I wouldn't expect a term derived from Sharess to have such.

Quote:

I had occasion to use it (Christened), and when it was typed out I realized that the Christ-reference, while it may have several possible analogs in the FR settings, the Jesus motif being the pervasive element that it is, would be unsuitable in its English form. Its etymology is grounded in an event that did not occur in FR. Now, we could give this word my aforementioned treatment and simply mentally translate it into a setting appropriate word of our own when it is perceived by the reader as incongruent...

Racism existed before, insofar as people hated ethnic groups, but it wasn't called racism. Denotatively, it's as anachrnonistic as "christened". I'll leave it at that, given the tone of the rebuttal to my point as opposed to the welcoming of the other 2 pages of off-topic listing of terms that are already specific to the setting.

Here's one that just occured to me, though it's not very obvious and I doubt it wouldbe used much in roleplay anyway; Teddy bear. Being created only in 1902, with the inspiration coming from the Roosevelt-Bear thing, then being named after him, Teddy being short for Theodore. Like I said, not one that would matter much most likely, but is an interesting one. How do you even begin to rename something like that, sine the whole item was inspired by him?

Stuffed bear?

Most faerunians do not attribute the creation of toys, stuffed or otherwise, to any one specific person, but one group of people know better, and well, you'd expect them to: The gnomes. The gnomes know of old Theodorus Burrotopulus, a great inventor of Lantan. Often deried and jeered at by his peers because his inventions weren't seen as practical, or useful, he nevertheless made them, and for free, giving them to gnomish children about the island. Some were small trinkets, even deisgned to be taken apart and put back together again, to help sharpen young budding gnomish minds, and others were large, complex works where the "play" consisted of pushing a button and watching the marvels unfold. Some of his simplest toys were small comfort objects given to children to soothe nightmares. The most common were dolls in the shape of animals, mostly badgers, moles, and other burrowing animals, but forest animals such as deer, wolves, and even the odd bear weren't all that uncommon either.

Theodorus went down in the history books, but not for the reason most gnomes do, or for the reason his peers wanted him to. He was a birllian inventor, but unfortunately snubbed by his intellectual equals. Those same intellectual equals would later come to even harbor a minor jealousy towards him for his longest lived and most loved invention: Those same stuffed animals that colloquially came to be named "Teddy bears", after the inventor. Theodorus reportedly left Lantan to travel around Faerun, creating new toys and inventions. When asked why, he simply stated: "Children are the future, and they should be cared for. The child playing with building block today, is the gnome that creates homes for thousands of tomorrow. They should be nurtured."

Tormak knows how to win at the Amian Lexicon!

Hah! Awesome!

Admittedly now Tuomas has some inspiration to cite whenever someone asks , but anyhoo..

..Tormak is good at this, I like that one.

Yeah, that's the trick. This is somewhat like an intellectual game challenge where there's a lot of hit and miss and the creative process is important. When presented with a word, there are two options, essentially:

1) Create a neologism ("new word") to supplant it. Example: "oghmanned" for "christened".

2) Maintain the same word, but manufacture a new etymology (origin) for the word. Example: Tormak's new version of the etymology of "teddy bear" coming from a gnome toymaker named Theodorus.

When you take either option, the real trick is to somehow make it memorable. In Option 1, you have to create a word that is easy to say and easy to remember because there is some intellectual link we can grasp between the word and its meaning. In Option 2, the etymology has to be kind of a good or memorable story. I won't remember all of the details of Tormak's origin of "teddy bear", but I will remember the following details: gnome named Theodorus, liked to make bear dolls, did it all for the kids.

Clearly what makes it memorable or even interesting is based on aesthetic sensibility, which varies from person to person. But any artist can tell you that while aesthetics is not a perfect science, it can come down to a majority/minority split, rather than some nebulous fifty-fifty stuff.

I just realized I used "run out of steam" in an IC PM. Help me (and resurrect this awesome topic)!

Why shouldn't "run out of steam" mean exactly the same thing in the same way as it does in RL, in a world with tinker gnomes?

That's an extremely marginal phenomenon, though. Tinkering with new technology isn't even the gnomish "thing" in the Realms nearly as much as it is in other settings. A colloquialism like that might be understandable only on Lantan.

Well then, clearly it refers to the well-known fact that mephits from the para-elemental plane of steam are much less powerful after they've used their breath weapon too often. They just run out of steam, you know.

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