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Dramatic_Prince
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 Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 11:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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I'd like to seek some DM clarification on this regarding PC presence in-game vs on forums.
- Assuming one of my characters was not in-game for scenario X, and as such, would I be or not be entitled to make any IC actions influencing the outcome of the scenario?
- Could I have or not have saved/aided/obstructed Character Y because I was not physically there to intervene?
- Is it legit or metagame, to forum post stating my character just happened to be there, or is entrenched there 24/7 during the time I play my other characters or during offline time.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 12:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I'm not a DM, but since this open to public discussion as opposed to a PM:
I think this is way too abstract a question for DMs to answer. That is to say, they shouldn't answer it even if they could theoretically make a complex rule covering all circumstances. "Common Sense" is the rule of thumb, and DMs will clarify specific cases when consulted.
I think common sense generally says that if everyone's fine with it and thinks it's fair and reasonable, it shouldn't be a problem. If my PC holds a political speech in a public space, I damn well expect characters to be able to have been there even if they didn't actually stand in that place in game the moment my PC was there. However, you can't expect people to know or care about any characters and their actions other than those who're immediately present. If my PC prepares to rob a few travellers and uses a disguise only your PC has ever seen, I can't be expected to consider that your PC might actually be there watching and recognizing me while you're actually offline. In most cases, common sense is pretty self-explanatory and needn't be qualified further. In those cases it isn't, an agreement between the players involved (or in the case of NPCs or disagreement, the decree of the DM) fills in the blanks.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 14:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Okay a less ambiguous but hypothetical scenario. What would be the ruling for such a scenario? We assuming the parties involved cannot agree and thus DM ruling is required. Quote: Kobbie the Kobold(L28 Sorcerer/L1 Rogue/L1 Ranger) is terrorizing goblin territory, say Brokentooth Cave and the immediate map surrounding it.
Gobbo the Goblin(L18 Ranger) is a resident in that goblin territory. He decides Kobbie should be banned from the territories.
*Gobbo the Goblin patrols the goblin lands regularly. For the few hours that he needs to rest, his familiar, Lupus the Dire Wolf would stand guard in his stead. If Kobbie the Kobold dares walk into goblin territory, he is either killed on sight or driven away.* Kob: //You can't do that. Your toon is not strong enough to beat Kob. Gob: //Yes I can. I have homeground advantage. I can call on the tribe to drive you away. Kob: //Those are only low level goblins. They can't chase Kob away. And you're not around physically around to see me in game. Gob: //Gob is there 24/7. Kob: //I'm going to ask a DM.
Last edited by Dramatic_Prince on Tue, Jan 11 2011, 14:29 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Esprey
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 14:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Location: U.S.Bleh...
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In that situation, refer to the words of wisdom directly bellow
~corrected~
_________________
Mylana Feycaster- The witch!
All other characters shelved due to burn out..
Last edited by Esprey on Tue, Jan 11 2011, 14:49 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 14:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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Tresspassing on guarded areas or faction areas is not allowed and the faction can have you tossed out as it's THEIR territory. While players aren't allowed to say what or how guards would react, entering a faction area without DM supervision OR faction approval is against the rules IIRC.
_________________
Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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Nekhy
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 14:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Gravemaskin wrote: Tresspassing on guarded areas or faction areas is not allowed and the faction can have you tossed out as it's THEIR territory. While players aren't allowed to say what or how guards would react, entering a faction area without DM supervision OR faction approval is against the rules IIRC. Correct, you need a DM for that or the relevant players present to play out the appropriate reaction. As a rule of thumb, if there's a reaction from someone to be expected (players or NPCs), you need someone to play that reaction (players or DMs). Ignoring it is metagaming.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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Silvarus
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 14:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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On more general cases, interaction without being online is generally a BAD idea. It is a pretty thought that others could be there to react, but it is practically impossible.
Timezones often make interaction impossible as it would be a pain to have opposing forces shout at each other over the forums for actions taken in game when neither are online at the others timezone.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 14:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Gravemaskin wrote: Tresspassing on guarded areas or faction areas is not allowed and the faction can have you tossed out as it's THEIR territory. While players aren't allowed to say what or how guards would react, entering a faction area without DM supervision OR faction approval is against the rules IIRC. We're assuming its an area with no guards, hence the example is the area outside Brokentooth cave, but technically, it's still goblinland. Or another example covering a large territory; The Barony of Caraigh which is ICly legit, I think. Can Banites still storm the towns when there are no PCs present? Are the local militia trained to elite war knight standard? Nekhy wrote: As a rule of thumb, if there's a reaction from someone to be expected (players or NPCs), you need someone to play that reaction (players or DMs). Ignoring it is metagaming. As with above, if it is in-game, and there are no defending PCs around. Do the Banites have to OOCly turn back because there is no one to respond to them? _________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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QPR
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 15:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Dramatic_Prince wrote:
Or another example covering a large territory; The Barony of Caraigh which is ICly legit, I think.
Can Banites still storm the towns when there are no PCs present? Are the local militia trained to elite war knight standard?
As with above, if it is in-game, and there are no defending PCs around. Do the Banites have to OOCly turn back because there is no one to respond to them?
Just how IC'ly legit the Barony of Caraigh can be discussed, especially in the case of Ceyrens Mill. The guards there act on their own, and although I am 99% sure they are not able to resist an attack by loads of level 30 banites, one would still need DM supervision and or approval as they are NPCs. Wether PC's are defending the twon or not is fairly irrelevant, the NPC's must still be taken into consideration.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 15:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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If there's NPCs (guards or civilians) and the actions say, the Banites were about to do, were hostile: they cannot just storm the place without DMs present.
Even if there's no NPCs present, no place on Amia can just be attacked and razed to the ground or anything without a DM present. The game world cannot react appropriately without a DM present, and a game world response is required for the town or village to be, say, be set to fire. If there's no DM, it doesn't happen because it cannot happen.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 15:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Nekhy wrote: If there's NPCs (guards or civilians) and the actions say, the Banites were about to do, were hostile: they cannot just storm the place without DMs present. Assuming the same conditions that no defending PCs are present. The Banites have no outwardly hostile intentions. In the an area where they are declared banned by a PC who claims authority, can they walk in and throw a party?
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Nekhy
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 16:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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If someone's been banned from an otherwise public area and this ban has been solidified by checking with a DM for example, then no, the banned people cannot just walk in and throw a party.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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hendrack
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 17:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Ideally there would be scripted message boards in actual IC locations. You click them to read and add messages, with a forum output as well. But thats too much work probably.
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Zinovy
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 17:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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Quote: Kobbie the Kobold(L28 Sorcerer/L1 Rogue/L1 Ranger) is terrorizing goblin territory, say Brokentooth Cave and the immediate map surrounding it.
Gobbo the Goblin(L18 Ranger) is a resident in that goblin territory. He decides Kobbie should be banned from the territories.
*Gobbo the Goblin patrols the goblin lands regularly. For the few hours that he needs to rest, his familiar, Lupus the Dire Wolf would stand guard in his stead. If Kobbie the Kobold dares walk into goblin territory, he is either killed on sight or driven away.*
Brokentooth Cave itself has NPCs, the Bramblewood map doesn't. It's easy to tell when it would be matagaming guards/NPCs by the mere presence of NPCs; as for PCs, I don't understand the problem given the example given (excluding bans, then the banned people should know not to travel through). The example implies that no one can kill any goblin in Bramblewood at any time, because a logged-off PC "should" be there blowing the whistle to the Brokentooth denizens? I think that would be a bad way to go about things, because then I can just make a character to post on every map on the server and be the ultimate spy without ever interacting in-game. A ridiculous example, but it's the same principle, if I understand correctly. I was under the assumption that if there are no NPC guards, the faction that those NPCs belong to aren't actively guarding it, and that a PC does not revert to the state of "NPC at the location of the player's choice" on logging off.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 17:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Ah I missed the kobo/gobo example... but yeah, if it's a public area that doesn't have any non-hostile NPCs (except carts and other neutrals), and there's PCs claiming territory and they are not present, then they are not present.
It's reasonable to assume that a PC stays in their home base or factional area when not logged in, but it's not reasonable to assume there's invisible PCs at just any area on Amia.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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Kudark
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 18:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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Nekhy wrote: It's reasonable to assume that a PC stays in their home base or factional area when not logged in, but it's not reasonable to assume there's invisible PCs at just any area on Amia. My character has no faction or home base. He lives in Amia Forests and sleeps wherever he is patrolling at the time. Unfortunatley, being human, he logs in at the Temple of Waukeen (I'd love to be able to spawn in Amia Forest by the way if possible too), which isn't a problem. What I'd like to know in relation to your post is where should he be considered located when I'm logged off? _________________ 
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Grymia
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 18:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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If you have the Amia Forest Node, you can set it as your starting area through your portal wand.
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Kudark
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 18:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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And when I log in, I'll spawn there as well?
_________________
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Esprey
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 18:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Location: U.S.Bleh...
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Yes. Upon activating the mirror in the entrance area, you will spawn at that point.
Once you have bound your portal wand to amia forest as one of your slots, open the menu on your wand as if portaling, select choose homepoint, and setit to the bound slot that Amia forest occupies.
_________________
Mylana Feycaster- The witch!
All other characters shelved due to burn out..
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Nekhy
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 19:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Kudark wrote: Nekhy wrote: It's reasonable to assume that a PC stays in their home base or factional area when not logged in, but it's not reasonable to assume there's invisible PCs at just any area on Amia. My character has no faction or home base. He lives in Amia Forests and sleeps wherever he is patrolling at the time. Unfortunatley, being human, he logs in at the Temple of Waukeen (I'd love to be able to spawn in Amia Forest by the way if possible too), which isn't a problem. What I'd like to know in relation to your post is where should he be considered located when I'm logged off? If he lives in Amia Forest, then he's in a camp in Amia Forest or something when you're not logged in. It's not really relevant where exactly a character is when the player is logged out, it could be a rentable home, too. The point is, that the character cannot participate in say, defending the Amia Forest from an attack when not logged in. So if you're not logged in when an attack comes, your character slept through the battle. Or something. That's the reason attacks are scheduled, too, so as many characters who would be present don't need to think of excuses why they were not there. Because if they're not logged in, they're not there. And in particular, attacks to factional bases need to be scheduled, because there most certainly would be characters present to defend the faction base.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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Kudark
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Posted: Tue, Jan 11 2011, 20:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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Thank you, I figured as much, I just wanted clarification.
_________________
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 7:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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The way I do things while offline is: If something happens to a place where my character lives or frequents while I happen to be offline, my character was simply "not there". Where was he/she? Anywhere else, but not there.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 8:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Dramatic_Prince wrote: Gravemaskin wrote: Tresspassing on guarded areas or faction areas is not allowed and the faction can have you tossed out as it's THEIR territory. While players aren't allowed to say what or how guards would react, entering a faction area without DM supervision OR faction approval is against the rules IIRC. We're assuming its an area with no guards, hence the example is the area outside Brokentooth cave, but technically, it's still goblinland. Or another example covering a large territory; The Barony of Caraigh which is ICly legit, I think. Can Banites still storm the towns when there are no PCs present? Are the local militia trained to elite war knight standard? Nekhy wrote: As a rule of thumb, if there's a reaction from someone to be expected (players or NPCs), you need someone to play that reaction (players or DMs). Ignoring it is metagaming. As with above, if it is in-game, and there are no defending PCs around. Do the Banites have to OOCly turn back because there is no one to respond to them? We trained the guards. We didn't train them to elite war knights or anything. They are just guards, probably about the same standard as Cordor's guards now. The only guards that the War Knights have ever trained to anything beyond Cordor Guard's leveling of training is Endir's Point, and that's because they got new armor, new weapons, a shit load of training, and experience fighting monsters. They where expected to be able to deal with a low level epic character. Even though Calin and Snobbles are Master Ranked Drillmasters, there is no way in hell we could have trained the Caraigh guards that much better then they are. We pretty much gave them the most improvement they could possibly get from a few hours RP Training Montage with a DM.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Note2_Self
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Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 8:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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Going from the original post, I would agree with the topics title, if you weren't there, it didn't happen.
If something In Game has occurred (such as the killing of a character for example) and a post made about it, then I don't think it fair or reasonable for someone to say their character has done something to affect that scene (such as raising/tending to the killed character, witnessing the killing from the bushes etc) without actually having been In Game at the time to play out that scene.
Other issues such as NPCs, regardless of their level of IC training, are quite clear that a DM is required to aid in such events.
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Galenson
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Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 9:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
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If you're not there, you'll hear about it pretty quick.
Trust me, back in my day when I was a Cordor Guard I knew about every gossip, rumour, heart break, lesbian accusation, Banite accusation, huggle snuggle accusation, fallen paladin accusation, thayvian accusation, dating rumour, Monty slander, Defender slander, Cordor Guard slander, the secret location of love, the tracking of bird migration patterns, 5 ways to determine how crazy a mage was...
AND
the top 10 hide out locations for criminals in Cordor all from standing there on duty from reset to reset.
People talk. They talk even more when they used to come out of the Temple recounting the tales of their untimely deaths which you'd ignore half the time because they were boring... Its inevitable.
_________________
Plays:
"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."
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Note2_Self
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Posted: Wed, Jan 12 2011, 9:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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True enough, but hearing about it is not the same as being there and being able to do something about it as or when it occurred.
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