AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mk. IV

Somehow I like sneaky builds now. Rogue19/Fighter4/WM7 hin with dagger+shield sounds good? Or just scrap the WM7 and get dual-weapon feats instead?

With a shield? Roll with a shortsword as a Hin. No real reason not to. Or maybe a handaxe if you want that huge multiplier.

hendrack wrote:

Somehow I like sneaky builds now. Rogue19/Fighter4/WM7 hin with dagger+shield sounds good? Or just scrap the WM7 and get dual-weapon feats instead?

I've had some fun with a similar build, Rogue17/Ftr6/WM7... two more Ftr levels gives you Weapon Spec at low levels and Epic Weapon Spec later on. If my limited understanding of character builds is accurate, this one is considered to be one of the "oldies."

Rogue17/Ftr6/WM7 is tight on feats as Human, so I don't see how Gnome will work with 19/4/7 without missing some pretty things. Epic Dodger WM7 is a great build, so even if you take leave of your senses and ditch the Epic WS it'll still work, just not as well.

I'd already considered the Gnomish version so luckily I have the build plan written out.

Its for a dagger chap just because I like the option of being able to throw on some dual wielding gloves and net that extra attack for general party pvp.

You can do it on a gnome. Just drop WM to 5 and bump fighter to 8. You pick up the extra feat in pre-epic then. Its actually the frank for non-humans.

17 Rogue 5 WM 8 Fighter

Gnome
10str
18dex
14con
14int
8cha
8wis

Pre-epic would look something like this: 8 Rogue 7 Fighter 5WM
Final fighter comes at level 29.

Obviously you go 1 Rogue, 2 Fighter 2 Rogue 2 Fighter
1 R: Dodge
2 F: Mobility
3 F: Weapon Finesse, Expertise
4 R:
5 R:
6 F: Weapon Focus
7 F: Spring Attack
8 R:
9 R: Whirlwind Attack (+4) intimidate
10 WM:
11 WM:
12 WM: Imp Critical
13 WM:
14 WM:
15 F: Blindfight
16 F: Weapon Spec
17 R:
18 R: Called Shot
19 F:
20 R:
21 R: Great Dex
22 R: Crippling Strike
23 R:
24 R: Epic Weapon Focus
25 R: Improved Evasion
26 R:
27 R: Armor Skin
28 R: Defensive Roll
29 F: Epic Weapon Spec
30 R: Epic Dodge

Hide 33: MS 33: Discipline 32: Set Trap 33: Disable Trap X: UMD 31: Tumble 30.

I had also tossed in the idea of dropping Great Dex in favor of epic fort because of small stature, but the violence with which Gnomes treat Kobolds for instance made me shy away from that.

ewww... Gnome models are so grossly crapped out. Tiny Elves turned into Tiny fur-less Orangutans... No wonder us Kobolds with sexy proportionate bodies despise them.

In any case, why Dagger though?

DustSpray101 wrote:

ewww... Gnome models are so grossly crapped out.

Nope, you just have to do it right like I did. Female gnome, fat phenotype, and just the right head model. The arms don't even look put of proportion anymore. I was quite surprised. I've played gnomes before and the arms always bugged me.

Now I can pummel kobolds and look good doing it.

Where's Weapon Spec, Mosh? I wondered how you fit Improved KD in when Frank didn't, then spied the lack of pre-epic WS.

Ah yeah where KD is, is supposed to be Weapon Spec and where IKD is supposed to be Called Shot.

Copy pasted the wrong build xD.

Why called shot you may ask! Size doesn't matter!

I'd like to rebuild my Lolthite priestess in a way that'll let her kick more ass. She's currently a pure caster cleric that's mostly an RP build. I'd like to be able to go toe to toe a little better with her so she isn't such a joke. If anyone has any detailed builds for Trickery/Evil domains it'd be great.

With spell focus, high WIS and 28 cleric there is not much room for improvement to 'kick more ass'. Caster clerics can go toe to toe with almost everything. I spot a rebuild with more proper feat/skill/ability reallocation, unless you want to go melee instead?

looking to rebuild my cleric of silvanus... any ideas on a good build that would make IC sense before i make a request for it? I was considering 23 cleric/6 ranger/1 druid just to cover all the aspects of his faith. Any ideas other then mine?

Why 6 ranger?

Pet maybe?

Personally I like the idea of 24 Cleric 5 Harper Scout 1 Druid. But that is because I like the Harper Class for some unknown reason.

DustSpray101 wrote:

In any case, why Dagger though?

Shortsword is medium for small-sized races, such as gnome and halfling. The build in question does a fair bit of dualwielding in PvM, even though it doesn't take the two-weapon fighting feats. However, there is a dagger with both, Ambidex and TWF, making it profitable switching between dualwielding and shield, and this is where going with a tiny weapon pays off: to minimise dual-wield penalties.

Now now, Mosh. You little hipocryte... You wanted people to step away from loooong

Loooong

loooong
Builds.

But here you go and make one yourself!

Quote:

Pet maybe?

Personally I like the idea of 24 Cleric 5 Harper Scout 1 Druid. But that is because I like the Harper Class for some unknown reason.

Ill tool around with that build and see how it goes.

Bit feat starved, In my eyes. Considering you spend 4-5 Feats on Spell Focus and Metamagic, then -also- two feats for Harpe-Scout prequistiq

Alertness is quite handy though if that cleric's going the zen archery / spot route.

It's quite handy even if you weren't, but also accessible with some items in the game. Going melee, the feats are: Extend, WF, Maximise, Blindfight, Iron Will, Imp Crit, KD, Alertness. You can also sacrifice Imp Crit for IKD. Can afford them just fine, it's the CHA version that's starved.

I have made my barbarian/bard, ragesinger etc (got any ideas for ic name as what he can introduce himself?)
but the main question is: what feats to take and why? all feats I can get are just the normal ones with 15/15 divide of levels.

I dont know for name. You as player decide the IC things. But as for the 15/15 I just see him as seriously gimped version of a bard and barbarian. You dont need to take barbarian levels to say you've got an awful temper or bard levels to be able to sing.

Consider doing something like 25 bard 1 barbarian 4 fighter....

Pre-epic you'll have the same feats as any other melee Bard, post epic, you can get one of the epic Rage types. You can in theory fit any of them, but the minmaxing and use of Great CON/STR feats makes Mighty Rage crazy to take on Gold Dwarf and probably impossible for everything else. Thundering is only a little less masochistic, so really it's going to be Terrifying.

1 Curse Song
3 Extend Spell
6 Lingering Song
9 Knockdown
12 Weapon Focus
15 Maximise Spell
18 Blindfight

21 Epic WF
24 Armourskin
27 Terrifying Rage
30 [optional]

Go pure Bard until level 12 then take your Barb so you can focus in a Martial Weapon, then I think you might need to take your 12th level at 15 to get Maximise although I'm not sure. If you don't, then take your 12th Bard level at 13 so you get the +4GMW early as possible, then you're Bard12/Barb8 for maximum AB. Then take the rest of the Bard levels, then Barb.

My pure combat characters and my Clerics, Druid, Ranger and Paladin would certainly all like to have that guy as a buddy rather than a functionally pure Barb, especially from level 23 when the Bard15 arrives; that's Mage Armour, Improved Invis for free and Haste for the nastier fights, as well as a nice AC/AB bonus, but they'd really prefer him to be a pure Bard for the all day Haste and ability to spam Curse into every spawn, rather than just the worst.

My mages would like the Curse Song since it lowers enemy saves, which is worth the lack of serious DPS oomph on your part, but most mages aren't as heavily into spamming status effect spells like me, so they'd not get as much benefit.

My Bards, however, would think he sucks; okay, it's another body on the frontline, but he's nothing like as damagey or robust as a real Barb.

How well would a 25ranger/3rogue/2monk (18ran/2mon) do here, mainly against some of the bosses?
chultan, dex based, kamawielding, could end with 28 in basic dex, no epic dodge, ESF: spot, max skillpoints in: disc,hide,ms,spot,tumble,UMD,AE(if its worth taking?)

And I dont wanna hear: dexbased and no epic dodge = epic fail

Question, how powerful is a bard song and a curse song with 30 bard and 100 perform?

RTFW.

Zifon wrote:

How well would a 25ranger/3rogue/2monk (18ran/2mon) do here, mainly against some of the bosses?
chultan, dex based, kamawielding, could end with 28 in basic dex, no epic dodge, ESF: spot, max skillpoints in: disc,hide,ms,spot,tumble,UMD,AE(if its worth taking?)

And I dont wanna hear: dexbased and no epic dodge = epic fail

You may not want to hear that, but it's true. You won't do very well. Iffy damage and AC.

My Sovereign wrote:

Question, how powerful is a bard song and a curse song with 30 bard and 100 perform?

http://nwn.wikia.com/

It gives/deals 48 HP at that level.

Ranger is probably the class that best gets away with DEX-base and no Epic Dodge; between Bane of Enemies and the pet it's a smaller percentage of your overall output to go from +14 STRmod to +6 than anything else except a Sneak Attacker, which this build has a wee scrap of anyway.

However, if the boss isn't on your Bane list, then you really suck if the pet goes down, which they can very swiftly.

Zifon wrote:

How well would a 25ranger/3rogue/2monk (18ran/2mon) do here, mainly against some of the bosses?
chultan, dex based, kamawielding, could end with 28 in basic dex, no epic dodge, ESF: spot, max skillpoints in: disc,hide,ms,spot,tumble,UMD,AE(if its worth taking?)

And I dont wanna hear: dexbased and no epic dodge = epic fail

Chultan monk = fail.

why do I need maximize?

To selfbuff with max STR/CON/DEX/WIS/CHA and hopefully your party members too!

On only 15 Bard, I'll concede that Extra Music might trump Maximise, but I've not tested this theory, and the ease of putting gearsets together when you can rely on +5 ability buff is wonderful.

STR, DEX and CHA only as a bard, though.

They get them all except CON, sillyum.

Not a huge problem when you consider how easy it is to get said CON enchantment.

Maximised it is. That's +5 CON, effectively opening you 3 free spaces in your gear.

MoshingChris wrote:

Uberuce wrote:

Then, when you get the dragon, you take three castings of extended Aura of Vitality and Blood Frenzy and one casting of owls insight so you don't ballocks all your spell slots when you shift and run about stomping things with your sexy 60STR.

Minor fix there.

Mulan or ffolk work best for the Dragonshaper because it'll free up an epic feat from wisdom. Again its a build numerous folk ask for so I'll post my favourite variant of it.

Mulan
14 strength (maxes to 26 use darts and net automatic mighty +8 damage over a slings)
8 dex (7) (tough going because you can't wear metal armour however you can reverse the strength and dex attributes at creation)
14 con
18 wis (19) -> 26 level ups -> +4 great ability = 30
10 Int
8 Cha

28 Druid 1 Ranger 1 Rogue

1 - 20 Druid
Feats: Extend Spell, SF & GSF Evocation, SF & GSF Conjuration, Zen Archery, Called Shot (or blindfight), Empower Spell.

21-24 Druid
Feats: Great Wisdom, Great Wisdom
Druid Bonus: Great Wisdom

25 - 27 Druid
Feats: Great Wisdom

28 Rogue: Tumble/Spot Dump

29 Ranger Feat: Epic Spell Focus Evocation or Conjuration depending on Mummy Dust choice. Discipline Dump.

30 Druid: Mummy Dust + Dragonshape

Unshifted Zen AB = 43 GMW/Bless/Aid

The problem with Dragon shape is that is has very limited use. Great for pvboss. Sucks for general pvm and in pvp any player worth his salt will avoid you. Luckily your also a druid and possess some of the most potent spells available.

If you take 2 from Con and put them into Int you can grab UMD (15 points) and Heal on your rogue level. With your wisdom bonus you'll essentially be able to use the Herbalist job to keep yourself healed on nothing but kits and foraging which is nice for RP.

*Random*

What sounds more appealing.. ( AC would be 63 or 65 )

+2 AC / +10 Skill

--

+2 AC / +1 Str

--

+1 Str / 1d8 Sonic / DC 20 Stun

:mrgreen:

I assume that by +1 STR you mean modifier as in +1 AB and damage? The middle one is rationally thought out perhaps the most reliable choice, though personally I'd be intrigued to go with as much cannon as possible.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

I assume that by +1 STR you mean modifier as in +1 AB and damage? The middle one is rationally thought out perhaps the most reliable choice, though personally I'd be intrigued to go with as much cannon as possible.

Pretty much its..

Armor Skin / Epic Skill Focus

vs

Armor Skin / Epic Strength

vs

Epic Strength / Thundering Rage

You haven't said what it's for. If it's a PvM focus, then Thundering+STR works best. Otherwise Armourskin/STR - you can boost Intimidate/Discipline higher than you need to with gearsetting, but you need all the AB/AC you can get, ans they're both capped.

CookieMonster wrote:

If you take 2 from Con and put them into Int you can grab UMD (15 points) and Heal on your rogue level. With your wisdom bonus you'll essentially be able to use the Herbalist job to keep yourself healed on nothing but kits and foraging which is nice for RP.

Why would I do that?

Druid is 4 SP per level as is ranger and rogue is 8.

Human nets a +1.

Thats five Skillpoints/level.

Discipline, Tumble, Spot, 10 points in Animal Empathy, 31 points in UMD, everything else into Concentration and with the herbalist job and being able to cast heals it makes more sense for you to craft heal potions.

MoshingChris wrote:

CookieMonster wrote:

If you take 2 from Con and put them into Int you can grab UMD (15 points) and Heal on your rogue level. With your wisdom bonus you'll essentially be able to use the Herbalist job to keep yourself healed on nothing but kits and foraging which is nice for RP.

Why would I do that?

Druid is 4 SP per level as is ranger and rogue is 8.

Human nets a +1.

Thats five Skillpoints/level.

Discipline, Tumble, Spot, 10 points in Animal Empathy, 31 points in UMD, everything else into Concentration and with the herbalist job and being able to cast heals it makes more sense for you to craft heal potions.

Don't forget 15 points in Spellcraft for Mummy Dust.

Is Tymora's Smile dispellable or is it considered a supernatural/extraordinary power?

DerkDerkistan wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

CookieMonster wrote:

If you take 2 from Con and put them into Int you can grab UMD (15 points) and Heal on your rogue level. With your wisdom bonus you'll essentially be able to use the Herbalist job to keep yourself healed on nothing but kits and foraging which is nice for RP.

Why would I do that?

Druid is 4 SP per level as is ranger and rogue is 8.

Human nets a +1.

Thats five Skillpoints/level.

Discipline, Tumble, Spot, 10 points in Animal Empathy, 31 points in UMD, everything else into Concentration and with the herbalist job and being able to cast heals it makes more sense for you to craft heal potions.

Don't forget 15 points in Spellcraft for Mummy Dust.

With 12 int in singleplayer I got:

Full concentration
30 spellcraft (granting bonuses vs spells)
30 Tumble
32 UMD (Saved rogue level for level 29)
32 Spot
30 Discipline
10 or so Animal Empathy

I actually wouldn't invest anything in concentration. But that is just me. If you get caught with your pants down as a druid, your going to die unless you dragonshape immediately.

I ditched the bard/barbarian build and now I want to make a FULL BARD! MWAHA!
any suggestions? buffery is all I am looking for.

Any preferred race? Bard/DWD is tankey and buffery. If you want to go 30 bard you can still nab epic damage reduction by going CON on a gnome or dwarf.

Bard/Dwarven Defender... Wow, That does sound pretty awsome, Honestly. And very Dwarf'ish. Almost Sterotypical...

AC whore, Plus DR Whore, Plus Buff whore, Plus Song whore ... = Your Favorite Party member.

@ TeroSNS - Define full bard? Some consider 20 bard a "Full bard", some only consider 30 bard as the 'Full bard'

The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mk. IV

Who is online