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ShadowSoul89

Posted: Sun, Dec 12 2010, 16:23 PM

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Joined: 03 Aug 2009
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Eh...taking levels in fighter seems contradictory to being a Barbarian. Thanks for the response, though.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Sun, Dec 12 2010, 16:30 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
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hendrack wrote:

I think 24 barb 4 fighter 2 rogue is standard, could be wrong.

Very standard. Could go both Great Con route or Dev.crit route...

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ShadowSoul89

Posted: Sun, Dec 12 2010, 16:36 PM

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Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Location: Somewhere...

Built-like-a-bear would hint to Great Con... Damage Reduction would be fantastic, actully. And as for the Fighter levels, that could be switched out with Divine Champion, right?

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-Cloak-and-Dagger-

Posted: Sun, Dec 12 2010, 16:50 PM

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Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England

The Fighter build is basically Barbarian with Epic Weapon Specialisation. If you want something a bit different from the standard, and this char has the touch of the divine about him, as the previous post suggests...how about Barb26/Rog2(or 3)/Drd2(1)? Druid gets Nature Sense, +2AB in Natural Areas. Awesome! And a pet, which is cool, even if it only has 15 Hit Points.

Uncle-Opustus

Posted: Sun, Dec 12 2010, 16:59 PM

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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland

I'd rather go Barb28/Rogue1/Druid1. Nets an extra feat and more barb goodness. Bard fits a barbarian as well if you're going with the tribal sorta bastard.

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Naivatkal

Posted: Sun, Dec 12 2010, 17:53 PM

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Joined: 26 May 2010

So now I am thinking that Cleric 18/CoT 6/DwD 5 is a decent bet, too. Still gets the Def Stance 2 and another 9th level cleric spell slot

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Uncle-Opustus

Posted: Sun, Dec 12 2010, 18:01 PM

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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland

Defensive Stance is rubbish. The alternatives Uce listed work a lot better. Besides, there will be the time you'll think "Oh why God, why was I too foolish to take a longer duration for my round spells?"

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Naivatkal

Posted: Sun, Dec 12 2010, 18:27 PM

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Joined: 26 May 2010

Oh, wait, I was thinking of defensive awareness! lol

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 11:50 AM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Defensive awareness 2 is godlike. Since it effectively makes you Sneak-Immune in combat.

Didn't you have a Paladin/DWD Opustus, A paladin that could easily prance in to Manor Of Mourn and solo the whole lot without any real effort.

Quote:

The inability to be flanked, granted by defensive awareness (2), is extremely powerful in that it makes a character immune to sneak attacks whenever he is attacking something. However, this immunity is only effective while attacking — if the character stops attacking (such as when he can no longer reach his current target), he becomes subject to sneak attacks again.

Sin4given

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 12:15 PM

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Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in reality

Two Character concepts.

Wanting to see the validity of an engineer or craftman-like build. Someone who follows Gond. Perhaps a dwarf or something? Would be like a tinkerer or engineer to make things. Perhaps some build with sorc or wizard levels so DC summons could be reskinned to show him building something? I'm lost on this one.

A heavy, heavy sneak. Something of a one-hit kill assassin or something. Maybe soemthign with assassin levels? I am -really- interested in the posions available and curious about the assassin changes. A human maybe and perhaps with SD levels.

A heads up: I won't be making these PC's anytime soon. I'll probably make them February of next year, maybe. So no need for rushing or hasty builds, but I'm just curious of what builds could be for those two concepts.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 12:21 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

First one sounds like a Gnome Wizard

Second one sounds like a Rogue/assassin yes.
Lawful assassin or neutral/Chaotic?

Sin4given

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 12:46 PM

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Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in reality

Gnome Wizard? Huh.. well what build would best suit my concept? A summone/transmuter? Wait.. those two may be prohibited schools torward each other..

And a rogue assassin sounds nice. I'm leaning torward LE as a vigilante, or NE as a hired killer. So either of those two would work. More LE then NE to be honest.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 12:48 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Never specialize in a school, you'll always regret it afterwards. Generalist is the way to go, Unless you got a fancy RP reason to specialize.

With a LE assassin, you can mix in Monk and make it rather Powerful. Depends if you want SD levels though.

Ulir

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 13:46 PM

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Joined: 09 Mar 2009

Remember illusion focus as a gnome wizard. Very classic. You can of course have several spell foci as a wizard, so there are several schools to play with.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 14:25 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

A wizard has enough feats to get Epic spell focus in 2 schools without problems, PLUS both brew potion and craft wand

Sin4given

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 14:41 PM

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Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in reality

I thought that some schools were prohibitied if you did one school. I could be wrong though.

But yes, so what about a summoner Gnome Wizard? One that specializes in "building" summons and allies.

Oh, and an LE assassin with monk levels sounds good, and yea, maybe some SD?

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hendrack

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 14:55 PM

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Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

Spell specialization that you choose at first wiz level has opposing schools. If you're a generalist, you can take whatever spell schools for spell focus you want.

xXxSuShiKunxXx

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 20:26 PM

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Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Location: H-Town Texas

hendrack wrote:

Spell specialization that you choose at first wiz level has opposing schools. If you're a generalist, you can take whatever spell schools for spell focus you want.

I think You got it a bit off. The spell School is picked at the first level, which has opposing schools, and thus: Off limits magic. After that (provided you are generalist) You can pick any focuses/specializations you like.

Sin4given

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 20:43 PM

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Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in reality

Okay so maybe a summoning, transmuter gnome wizard? Epic spell focus in both and have a rogue or bard level so I can has access to UMD? I will want MD or DK.. depends though..

And yea, I decided I do want SD in the rogue/assassin build

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Zifon

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 20:46 PM

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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Denmark

I'm thinking of remaking my 29cleric/1bard from mainly STR based to mainly WIS based, he will then be a caster cleric and I'll go for high spot.
I'm also considering zen archery for ranged combat from behind my friends:
28 Cleric 1 Bard 1 AA, has been mentioned as a fine build, can someone lay this out abit?
Having two lvl 1 classes seems somewhat smelly to me though, is there a almost just a good build without the AA (I kinda like the old sling-shield combo but maybe thats just way outdated here)?

MoshingChris

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 21:02 PM

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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge

@sushi
Nope he's correct.
Specialist is specialist.
Focus is focus.

You don't pick any specialisations after first level at all.

@sin
SD is boring and I can tell you, you can't make a decent assassin with SD levels.

That said

10 Rogue 10 Assassin 10 SD works
or
13 Rogue 11 Assassin 6 SD for heavier sneaks.

@cleric/bard

If your going ranged just make a Bard/AA they work extremely well.

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Sin4given

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 21:06 PM

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Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in reality

Well.. if it doesn't make such a good assassin, then I guess it could be better without SD. In my mind it would be better for a heavy hitter, even if his AC is poor.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 21:44 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

So. Bit of a cold shower here...
Been levelin' this ranger chap, and realised halfway that ... "hey, Weapon finesse doesn't apply to longswords!"

Fail-hat please. ><

MoshingChris

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 21:50 PM

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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge

@ Sin

Could try 20 Assassin 10 Rogue

Or a Strength based 8 fighter 5 WM 17 Assassin

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TeroSNS

Posted: Mon, Dec 13 2010, 22:50 PM

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Joined: 26 Jan 2009

Very_Svensk wrote:

So. Bit of a cold shower here...
Been levelin' this ranger chap, and realised halfway that ... "hey, Weapon finesse doesn't apply to longswords!"

Fail-hat please. ><

*gives a fail-hat*
wear it with pride.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 0:35 AM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

@Natvakal. (Did i spell it right?) http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856 There's the Character Build Calculator i used before.

My Sovereign

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 0:43 AM

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Joined: 19 Sep 2010

MoshingChris wrote:

13 Rogue 11 Assassin 6 SD for heavier sneaks.

Can I get a step by step for a heavy sneaking, epic dodging version of this? Duel daggers?

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PaladinOfSune

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 0:46 AM

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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK

MoshingChris wrote:

you can't make a decent assassin with SD levels.

This x100

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My Sovereign

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 0:47 AM

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Joined: 19 Sep 2010

PaladinOfSune wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

you can't make a decent assassin with SD levels.

This x100

Or....should I just not do SD?

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TormakSaber

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 1:20 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Their point is that taking SD messes with your skill points and lowers your sneak attack damage, while also often lowering your AB by a point or two as well.

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My Sovereign

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 1:41 AM

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Joined: 19 Sep 2010

I have been fighting and fighting with myself on what I want Snarl to be...

I have decided to, for both RP and stats, to drop the SD and go all rogue Assassin...

help?

I was thinking 13rogue/17assassin

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 1:59 AM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

My Sovereign wrote:

Its a kobold, Right?

My Sovereign

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 2:22 AM

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Joined: 19 Sep 2010

Very_Svensk wrote:

My Sovereign wrote:

Its a kobold, Right?

You are correct friend!

Epic dodge, duel wielding daggers, huge hide/move silently

His stats at lv 1 are

Str. 8
Dex. 20
Con. 8
int. 16
wis. 8
cha. 8

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Naivatkal

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 3:18 AM

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Joined: 26 May 2010

Very_Svensk wrote:

@Natvakal. (Did i spell it right?) http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856 There's the Character Build Calculator i used before.

lol close enough

Yeah, I actually found it after you mentioned it was on NWN Vault =D
Thanks!

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Sin4given

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 3:56 AM

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Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in reality

20 Assassin/10 Rogue?

I'm guessing that will net me epic dodge and all the lovely poison feats.

What else will be included, or should I include? For the cocnept, the poison works well, and maybe ..erm.. well Craft Wand? Make Ghostly Visage wands and Darkness Wands

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ainjyll

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 4:22 AM

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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

My Sovereign wrote:

His stats at lv 1 are

Str. 8
Dex. 20
Con. 8
int. 16
wis. 8
cha. 8

Min-Maxed much?

I'd say that you just make sure that you hit on a bonus rogue feat in epic so you can pull Epic Dodge, make sure you throw ESF: Hide and MS in there (even though the only one you really need is ESF: Hide, IMO) and you're going to have to take a Great DEX or something to ensure that you don't land on an uneven final number. Should be a pretty self-explanatory build, really.

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PaladinOfSune

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 4:58 AM

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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK

Sin4given wrote:

You can't make wands out of those, as they're treated as feats, not spells. 13 Rogue/17 Assassin is the minimum Rogue levels you'd need for Epic Dodge, too.

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Sin4given

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 11:47 AM

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Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere in reality

D'awww. Well there goes my wand idea.

So, 13 rogue/17 Assassin? Not too sneak heavy, but it seems the Death attack will be powerful?

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Silent2001

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 12:33 PM

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Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire

DC27 + int (If you manage to find someone not wearing a freedom belt.(

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Dramatic_Prince

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 12:39 PM

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Joined: 11 Sep 2008

Sin4given wrote:

So, 13 rogue/17 Assassin? Not too sneak heavy, but it seems the Death attack will be powerful?

Hmm?
"Death attacks are made whenever an assassin would qualify for a sneak attack, regardless of the target's combat state"
"The bonus damage stacks with that for sneak attacks, including the blackguard's sneak attack."
That means you get the max 16d6 sneak die, no?

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PaladinOfSune

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 12:45 PM

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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK

Yeah. 13 Rogue/17 Assassin gets 16d6 sneak attack. 10 Rogue/20 Assassin only gets 15d6 sneak attack.

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My Sovereign

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 13:18 PM

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Joined: 19 Sep 2010

ainjyll wrote:

My Sovereign wrote:

His stats at lv 1 are

Str. 8
Dex. 20
Con. 8
int. 16
wis. 8
cha. 8

I never realized that until now....I feel silly.

I will make him

Str. 8
Dex. 19
Con. 10
int. 16
wis. 8
cha. 8

That will save me an epic feat...and net me some more HP

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Rosencrantz

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 14:56 PM

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Joined: 28 Apr 2007

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

I'd rather go Barb28/Rogue1/Druid1. Nets an extra feat and more barb goodness. Bard fits a barbarian as well if you're going with the tribal sorta bastard.

Wait! So you can make a Bard/Barb that works?

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DustSpray101

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 15:24 PM

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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale

You couldn't before?

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Rosencrantz

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 16:03 PM

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Joined: 28 Apr 2007

Well, they're both classes you want a lot of for them to be more and more useful. I just don't understand how you'd break down the levels to get enough of both to make up for the loss of not going mostly or purely one of them instead of sacrificing for the blend.

Edit: Don't get me wrong though, I really like the concepts that could grow from Bard/Barb.

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MoshingChris

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 16:37 PM

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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge

20 Bard 6 Fighter 4 Barb works I suppose.

25 Bard 1 Ranger 4 Barb
21 Barb 1 Ranger 8 Barb

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GreatPigeon

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 18:03 PM

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Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK

4 Bard
x barbarian
y pm

Where x is 20+
and y = 30-(4+x)

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Rosencrantz

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 18:11 PM

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Joined: 28 Apr 2007

A.. Singing, barbarian pale-master? Heh..

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Zifon

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 18:40 PM

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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Denmark

MoshingChris wrote:

@cleric/bard
If your going ranged just make a Bard/AA they work extremely well.

Ok, maybe I wasnt clear enough here:
I'm thinking of remaking my 29cleric/1bard from mainly STR based to mainly WIS based, he will then be a caster cleric and I'll go for high spot.

The idear is: minimun 25 cleric lvls, first and foremost WIS based, then a caster (evocation/conjuration), then a spotter, then (if its possible) a decend ranger damage dealer.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Tue, Dec 14 2010, 18:47 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Zifon wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

@cleric/bard
If your going ranged just make a Bard/AA they work extremely well.

It's more tricky now after the divine power nerf... Clerics, If they want to be Melee or ranged heavy, Must grab a fourth attack Pre-Epic to make it efficient.

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