AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mk. IV

let's start out with Race, eh?

so you guys are saying that a hide of 116 sucks?

A hide of 116 doesn't 'suck'. It's more than what most PCs, except for dedicated spotters, could ever hope to see. And, it's as Tormak said: there are a lot of miscellaneous factors that influence both spot and hide. A spotter could see a SD in one situation, and not in another.

Quote:

Little request here, I've been dying to try playing a "Warrior" type character for years but every time I go to make one I realize that I have literally no idea how to build one.

Stick to the basics? Fighter/rogue/WM. You could also try BG 16/fighter 10/ rogue 2... or 16/11/1. Both STR-based. Mosh posted a few drow 'warrior' builds on the page before this.

TeroSNS wrote:

so you guys are saying that a hide of 116 sucks?

116 is fantastic.

See, there's a couple things with hide, and to the same degree, spot.

You can sit at about 55 hide and probably out hide 90% of people in the entire server. You don't really need any gearsetting to do that. It works because those people just plain don't have spot.

Then you can gear up a bit and outhide 98% of the people at about 80-85 hide or more. This will start to take care of some of the dedicated spotters but the ones who don't have wis focus or a reasonable way of keeping true sight and other things to top off the +50 pretty well.

Thnen if you're super serious, you gear up to your 116 and you're going to outhide 99% of the entire server. What's going to see you? A cleric or Druid Zen archer with as many feats in spot as you took in hide. That's really about it.

That 1% will be me since I have a boner for spot in most of my builds nowadays. Aside the zen types theres also the ranger who can gear towards spot easily. Mine has around 113 or so vs favored enemies.

Ah, yes, i forget the epic elf ranger since favored enemy bonuses apply to Spot.

Yes, a 30 Ranger nets +7 to spot vs favoreds that doesn't count towards the +50 and if you are a 30 Ranger you have so many favoreds that PC races are going to be plentiful on their favored lists. Plus they have a positive WIS bonus base to work from. Mine is not even an Elf and didn't take every single spot feat but will have a spot score well over 100 vs favoreds.

Eh, you don't need to be WIS-focused to be able to catch 116 Hide users. As long as the spotter has Darkvision or a light source, the Hide/Spot mechanics are always slightly in favour of the spotter and they wouldn't be able to stand around spying for more than half a turn without getting caught.

All this relies on the fact you have decent equipment for it, however.

I'd like to try a build with 7 weapon master and going for scythe. also was thinking of going devastating critical, and possibly 15 barbarian after fighter/wm. got any suggestions how to progress my levels, what skills to get, ability scores and possible other options replacing 15 barbarian?

Hmm I was just thinking of something and wondered how a Paladin20/Cleric 10 would fare?
Though, I was thinking of a scythe for the concept I am thinking... so maybe Paladin 20/WM 10 would be better?

The essential concept would be someone who appears nigh-incorruptible, a man that took his vows seriously. Perhaps a bit too seriously.
So I was thinking of the scythe, since it is a rather good weapon to smite the holy heck out of things, especially when combined with WM.
Though, Champion of Torm comes to mind as a good class to add in. Never done a Paladin before, though, so yeah...

Do i smell a Kelemvorite in the making?

I'd advice against 20/10 Paladin weaponmaster... You don't get anything from 10 WM, 5-7-13-16 are the Key-levels to a Weaponmaster.
And trust me, you'll be so feat-starved on that paladin that it's not worth it.

Do you want to be a great smiter?
What race will you take?

Kelemvoriteness: Nah, don't think so. Not really sure what deity, though
WM: Thanks, I wasn't sure about the levels of WM to take. So basically the lack of all the feats would gimp him to a point?
Race: I was thinking human, of some sort

I'm looking for him to do a damn good amount of damage, the better destroy evil. Great Smite does sound like that would be helpful, heh
Is Extra Smiting worth it? I assume so?

Paladin19/CoT10/Rogue or Monk1 is perhaps the cheesiest of the Smiter builds, but there are several other variables to consider. Paladin30 has been proven a fine one, Paladin29/Cleric1 why not? Really, it's either superheavy Pally or middling Pally with CoT.

I had a Great Smiter before With Great smite 7. I tested a Scythe crit before, and it was about 1.200 damage.
*Joy-Gasm*

But Other than a 3/day Smite, he felt pretty gimped... But it's cool to be able to down an enemy in a few blows. And paladin's doesn't really lack damage or AB in any term.
Anyway - Yes, You need Extra smiting.

If you Pvp a lot, Im inclined to say that rapier or scimitar is the weapon of choice. A normal Great Smite does about 200-300 damage, and even if the crit is only x2, it's enough. The trick is to have a weapon that is prone to critting..

And if it, he/she doesn't die - hit him again

That's right, I did forget that the scythe is a 20 base threat range. Hmmm I'd like to not do a cheesy build, of course, so the Rogue and Monk levels just cause are out. Rogue 2 has some reasoning, and I could at least only focus skills in the same sets that a Paladin class is allowed to get (so no UMD and such), or possibly something advantageous. Maybe. I try to be uncheesy with my characters, if at all possible.

But in any case, CoT is a good idea... but I would like to max out Paladin. I do like the idea of level 20+ characters, depending on their concept.
Maybe just a straight 30 Paladin? That's nasty enough lol

Also, for the weapon. I dunno about rapier/scimitar. They both seem very un-Paladin lol
I usually think of something like a longsword/greatsword or possibly bastard sword. I dunno D=

Everything is Cheese. Just provide a RP reason and it's less cheese... More like Cheddar.

It sounds like you're into the go'old 23Paladin/6Cot/1 Something... Because you shouldn't deny the effectiveness of dumping tumble. But if you're not into it, You can always cross-Class tumble. Its just 3 less AC.

23Paladin/6Cot/1 Harper scout maybe?

Hmm I suppose. I do like providing RP reasons, so I know that helps assuage my panic (lol)

So 23 Pal/6 CoT is pretty good, eh? 6 CoT does looks pretty nice. And it would fall in line with his nigh-zealotry as well

1 HS, though, nah, that's just mean.. maybe? I dunno I just heard something about HS only items and the whole HS 'clique' thing. or maybe that was another lore-group/ I dunno, hah!

1 Rogue wouldn't be -too- bad, I suppose...

For a paladin, Choosing between Harper scout and Rogue is like choosing between clubbing an old lady or helping her cross the street... Less paladin rogues please!

The idea of Harper-scouts is that you trade 2 Feats pre-Epic, For one feat in epic AND you can also dump in tumble and stuff.

Ahhh I see. As long as there's not lore issue, then I am fine with it, ya'know?

Depends entirely what type of paladin you are making

Lemme go and dig up Dwagin's old post about paladin Orders and stuff for you..

Edit - http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52179

From what I have read about Harpers, it does not strike me as an organization paladins would join. They lean towards chaotic and have a thing for balance that would put off most LG paladins I believe. And they assassinate people.

So here I think rogue actually fit better lore wise, with monk being an even better option.

As for me: The standard BG build is 12 fighter, 2 rogue, 16 BG, right? How would it fare if you switched out rogue with bard instead? Obviously evasion and snak goes out, but now my BG can sing about his vile deeds.

And how are the starting stats? 14 across the board?

Mosh had a very cool epic dodging Blackguard / Rogue that worked well.. I think it was a 13Rogue/16Blackguard/1Fighter.
It's a good one, Since it had both Divine power/Might and -Very- strong sneaks for a Plated guy. Decent ab also

Throwing this out here to see if it appeals to you, QPR

Quote:

The Harpers are a secret society. Members are dedicated to holding back evil, preserving knowledge and maintaining the balance between civilization and the wild. The Harper scout performs many duties including espionage, stealth and reporting information.

In my ears, That sounds much better for a paladin that meddling with poison, Burglary or Sneak attacking....
Harper scout can also be RP'ed like an ordinary 'Scout' Class. Rogue is always Rogue

Except that rogues can also be lawful good thief catchers. Harpers are harpers, and they meddle by assassinations, blackmail, manipulation etc. In their mind, the end very much justifies the means. And that is not very much pally like to my eyes. But that is for the Lore thread.

As for the BG, I am aiming for a str based one this time, not a dexer. And he needs perform. Unless that really screws things over.

At least the harpers dedicate themselves to 'Hampering the progress of evil'. Read the quote.
Rogues are rogues, They're everything between the sun and moon, Good, Evil, Insane!
Harper scout is definitely a better option to tumble-dump with on a paladin.

Either way, HS is a poor choice as the Pally Smiter is tight on feats already as it is.

The Rogue13/BG16/Ranger1 is a gimmick, though fearsome. But as that wasn't your question, forget it.

But yes, Bard works just as well. The main point of taking Rogue is UMD and Tumble, anyway, though then I'd go BG 17 to get a slightly better duration.

Hm, so then I take it the best idea of a Great Smite Pally is 23 Paladin/6 CoT is one of the best ideas? Prolly with Rogue to go with it?

Could go Blackguard Monk?
Blackguard Cleric?
Blackguard Sorc (Spellsword)

@ Naivatkal.
I enjoy 19Paladin/10Cot/1 Something. It gives the most Feats in epic, Feats you invest to strengthen your Smite. But you'll loose a Spell-slot then.
23/6/1 gives 1 less Feat, but longer duration and one more Spell-slot, and you're not so easily dispelled.

Hmmm I think either would be fine. Course, the one less slot means only two Holy Swords as opposed to three, but... still seems rather powerful. Yeah

I need to think of a deity I want, first. Tyr/Torm/Helm come to mind first, but I do not know for sure.
Also: Thanks for that link, I'm checking it out

Helm > Tyr, Torm.

Kelemvor. ><

Anyway, Naivatkal, wait for other builders to chime in regarding that Paladin build before you go and make it. There's always another rock we can turn over

Not really a build question but I didn't want to start a whole new thread for so simple a question. What determines the DC for undead to make the save against lay on hands?

It's treated as a Touch-attack. And it's to much to Quote, so you can just click this text to get to nwnwiki.com and read about it.

But basically, Its BAB + strength modifier (only if positive) + nature sense + epic prowess (unless a ranged weapon is equipped) + unarmed weapon focus feats (if unarmed or using a creature weapon) + effects

My smite paladin is built 18 Pal/10 CoT/2 Rogue.

He'll end with like smite 8 or 9 I believe.

Very_Svensk wrote:

It's treated as a Touch-attack. And it's to much to Quote, so you can just click this text to get to nwnwiki.com and read about it.

But basically, Its BAB + strength modifier (only if positive) + nature sense + epic prowess (unless a ranged weapon is equipped) + unarmed weapon focus feats (if unarmed or using a creature weapon) + effects

Wrong.

The DC is 10 + 1/2 character level + charisma mod, iirc. Damage is whatever you'd normally heal for, in positive energy.

Quote:

When used against undead creatures, it is treated as a touch attack spell that delivers damage instead of healing.

And all touch attack spells follow the same, as described in my post above. If its not been subject of a homebrew change.

He asked for a DC vs damage, not how you hit. So yes, you are still wrong.

TormakSaber wrote:

The DC is 10 + 1/2 character level + charisma mod, iirc. Damage is whatever you'd normally heal for, in positive energy.

Is that half character level or pally level? If it's pally, does it combine with divine champion?

Mrm. Probably Paladin + CoT, yes.

Stacks yes.

23 Paladin 6 CoT 1 Monk is dandy as a smiter. Monk fits better than Harper Scout.

Harper Scout doesn't need to be a Harper at all. Same with PDK. Those two classes have been unofficially home brewed on Amia to Scout and Knight respectively. Similar to CoT in this instance.

I've been pondering this dual-bladed sword build, with improved two-weapon fighting. The blade looks pretty neat, even though there only are a few models to play with and basically only one blade in game worth using. Can't remember those in the gauntlet and abyss, but its safe to say that the Life and Death blade is very neat and fits an elf type race (thinking LoTR, hehe).

Would a bard 20/5 cot/4 fighter not be an ok choice? (feytouched ecl+1).
I know there is a lot of talk about bards with less level than 21 being silly, but 20 is what it takes to get lasting inspiration.
Any info on this?

From what I calculated, the build (str) can get you up to 61 ab (without smite evil), on a cursed and taunted target, which should be funny. However I am planning on a spellblade build, including either bard or sorcerer levels or both. Any solid ideas, please pm me.

20 Bard is what you aim for. 21 Bard if you want lasting inspiration reasonably early.

20 Bard 4 Fighter 6CoT is the stock saves/melee Bard for good/neutrals.

23 Bard 6 fighter 1 Ranger is the spotter/melee Bard.

The Cot/Fighter bard can also be a spotter, mind you.

Spott-classes wrote:

arcane archer, assassin, champion of Torm, dwarven defender, red dragon disciple, shadowdancer, ranger, rogue, shifter, weapon master

Ulir.
you can also try 20bard/10Cleric. The nerf went down strong on this, but it's still reasonably good.

MoshingChris wrote:

Stacks yes.

23 Paladin 6 CoT 1 Monk is dandy as a smiter. Monk fits better than Harper Scout.

Harper Scout doesn't need to be a Harper at all. Same with PDK. Those two classes have been unofficially home brewed on Amia to Scout and Knight respectively. Similar to CoT in this instance.

So, then, I assume the 1 Monk would be at level 30 for Tumble and all that?

Yep. Mind, you're not getting a Great Smite on a Monk level, so you might want to take it on level 28 to keep it simple.

Ahh, makes sense. Though wouldn't level 29 work as well? Or am I missing something in the progression?
Another thing: When people were saying 'Smite 8 or 9' and such, was that referring to the Great Smite feat in epic?

Skills: What would the best focus be? Persuade and Discipline?
Next question: What would a good level progression be?

And now, stats. Off the cuff I am thinking (Human, remember):
STR 14
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 15 (Sinking all level prog ability points in here)

Yes/No?

MoshingChris wrote:

20 Bard is what you aim for. 21 Bard if you want lasting inspiration reasonably early.

20 Bard 4 Fighter 6CoT is the stock saves/melee Bard for good/neutrals.

23 Bard 6 fighter 1 Ranger is the spotter/melee Bard.

I only have 29 levels to play with.

No.

You need 25cha for the great smite feats, so you'll probably want to start on 18charisma.

On a base human therefore

14str (requires 6 points at creation)
8 dex (0)
8 con (0)
10 int (2)
14 wis (6)
18 cha (16)

Therefore your end stats would look like

14str
8 con
8 dex
10int
14wis
26cha (7 level ups +1 great ability feat)

I am personally not a fan of smiters because they are limited in their rolls.

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