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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 10:38 AM 

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Any other successfully way to multi-class a barbarian, Beside the 24/4/2 ?

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Uncle-Opustus
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 10:55 AM 

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Yep. Plenty.

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 13:54 PM 

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I need some advise on what feats I should take at certain levels [in red].

Azra-

L24 Wizard
L6 Shadowdancer

1(W). +2 Dodge, Luck of Heroes
2(W).
3(W). +1 Mobility
4(W).
5(W). +1 Extend Spell
6(W). +1 Toughness
7(W).
8(W).
9(W). +1 Scribe Scroll
10(W). +1 Maximize Spell
11(W).
12(W). +1 Spring Attack
13(W).
14(W).
15(W). +2 (? Metamagic) Spell Focus: Conjuration
16(W).
17(W).
18(W). +1 Stealthy
19(W).
20(W). +1 Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
21(W). +1 Mummy Dust
22(W).
23(W). +1 (? Metamagic)
24(W). +1 Greater Ruin
25(SD).
26(SD).
27(SD). +1 Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration
28(SD).
29(SD).
30(SD). +1 (? Epic/General)

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 14:03 PM 

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You need, 1x Great Intelligence feat.

For Metamagic feats; You need
    Silent Or Still spell
    Maximize
    Empower
    Extend

Since you're a wizard, It's always handy to have
    Craft Wand
    Brew potion

Since you're going Shadowdancer, You need
    Dodge
    Mobility

Overall Suggestion.
Take 1x Level Shadowdancer Pre-Epic. Since you get extra Bonus feat at level 5-10-15-20 Wizard, This means your level 20 Bonus feat becomes Epic Bonus feat.

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DustSpray101
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 17:17 PM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
Any other successfully way to multi-class a barbarian, Beside the 24/4/2 ?


Yes. 17/13. Barb/Rogue respectively. Terrifying and Epic Dodge. Highly effective together with a sling or ranged weapon.

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Ulir
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 17:50 PM 

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Since you're a wiz, you dont need to take "scribe scroll" at level 9. You got it automatically.

I would suggest you take epic dragon knight, since you're going for epic conj., of hellball, which is grand. You might wanna take another look at the build you posted. You can't take epic spell foci: conj. or any epic mage spells when you level your SD at 21, 24, 27 & 30.

Ya, save a wizard level for the spot at level 21, 24, 27 & 30. That way you can get those fine epic spells and foci.

So, suggesting you to grab your SD levels at 22, 23, 25, 26, 28 & 29. I would prolly do that.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 18:09 PM 

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Ulir wrote:
Since you're a wiz, you dont need to take "scribe scroll" at level 9. You got it automatically.

I would suggest you take epic dragon knight, since you're going for epic conj., of hellball, which is grand. You might wanna take another look at the build you posted. You can't take epic spell foci: conj. or any epic mage spells when you level your SD at 21, 24, 27 & 30.

Ya, save a wizard level for the spot at level 21, 24, 27 & 30. That way you can get those fine epic spells and foci.

So, suggesting you to grab your SD levels at 22, 23, 25, 26, 28 & 29. I would prolly do that.


One level SD Pre-Epic, so he gets level 20 Wizard Extra feat in Epic.

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 20:23 PM 

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Thanks for the help.

Is there anything wrong with it now?

Azra-

L24 Wizard
L6 Shadowdancer

1(W). +2 Dodge, Luck of Heroes
2(W).
3(W). +1 Mobility
4(W).
5(W). +1 Extend Spell
6(W). +1 Toughness
7(W).
8(W).
9(W). +1 Brew Potion
10(W). +1 Maximize Spell
11(W).
12(W). +1 Spring Attack
13(W).
14(W).
15(W). +2 Craft Wand, Spell Focus: Conjuration
16(W).
17(W).
18(W). +1 Stealthy
19(SD).
20(W). +1 Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
21(W). +1 Mummy Dust
22(SD).
23(W).
24(W). +2 Greater Ruin, Dragon Knight
25(SD).
26(SD).
27(W). +1 Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration
28(SD).
29(SD).
30(W). +1 Great Intelligence

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 20:43 PM 

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Don't need both EDK and EMD, some of the EMD options get extended as well with epic spell focus conjuration. Instead of one of those epic summons and brew potion, get skill focus and epic skill focus hide.


 
      
Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 20:45 PM 

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I see no Still or silent Feats.
Nor any Empowered Feats.

Add those, and remove Spring attack, Luck of Heroes

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 20:49 PM 

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He has only conjuration spell focus, what do you want to cast silent, empowered or still from that? Extend and max is fine enough for buffing and ice storm / IGMS. Murex's build is fine aside the lack of hide boost, since he's a SD with some summons. Luck of heroes is awesome too.


 
      
Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:05 PM 

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hendrack wrote:
Don't need both EDK and EMD, some of the EMD options get extended as well with epic spell focus conjuration. Instead of one of those epic summons and brew potion, get skill focus and epic skill focus hide.


Why exactly should I not get both EDK and EMD?

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:06 PM 

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Because you cannot have the cake and eat it. You have to sacrifice something to gain something. Effectively, By gaining SD levels, you don't have as many EPIC feats as you want.

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:09 PM 

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And in case you didn't know, you can't have both summoned at the same time. An extended Mummy Dust will last an entire rest cycle anyway, and a Dragon Knight extended with Epic Conjuration would be enough too. Simply in terms of efficency, when one is summoned it's time wasted for the other.

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:15 PM 

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Epic Skill Focus: Hide would be nice, but is it even possible get 20 ranks in Hide with this build for the prerequsite?

I am aware that both epic summons cannot be used at the same time, I chose both because if one dies, I can then summon the other.

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Palemaster
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:22 PM 

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Personally i'd recommend EMD over dragon knight. EMD on amia is leaps stronger than the vast majority of epic melee characters. While the dragon knight gets stomped on pretty easy.

Remember with its long duration even if your using EMD for pvm, you could just buff it and watch it destroy most epic spawns.. IF it gets hurt just feed it a heal pot.

I agree with Sven. Spring attack is a waste 100% on a wizard, luck of heros is also something you dont need. Take the metamagic feats. They help TONS with your spell book layout as a wizard.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:26 PM 

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Palemaster wrote:
Personally i'd recommend EMD over dragon knight. EMD on amia is leaps stronger than the vast majority of epic melee characters. While the dragon knight gets stomped on pretty easy.

Remember with its long duration even if your using EMD for pvm, you could just buff it and watch it destroy most epic spawns.. IF it gets hurt just feed it a heal pot.

I agree with Sven. Spring attack is a waste 100% on a wizard, luck of heros is also something you dont need. Take the metamagic feats. They help TONS with your spell book layout as a wizard.


>_> That really isn't true. No summon is stronger than a properly setup mele fighter. The thing you are thinking of is the fact that the EMD, at least the default version, is immune to crits and a lot of other things. So... while it can barely hit anything with 60ac give or take it tanks like a BEAST. The EDK on the other hand doesn't have the immunity to crits but trust me... it holds its own with the fear aura alone, and the fact it can spot SDs and spank em.

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Palemaster
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:34 PM 

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Trust me.. I have in my playervault some of the strongest melee characters on the server, and I know Sven has some pretty smexy powerbuilds aswell. I have both WM's and Cheesy like Barb/Bard/PM's.. EMD buffed is a huge pain and might even spank most of them. I'm even taking into consideration that I swap to a +4 warhammer with 2d6vs Construct. The summon is awesome. EDK however is a waste of space vs anyone.... including a good rogue. Where as EMD is SUCH a pain that in any sort of PVP I would not -ever- consider fighting it, but instead focusing on who ever summoned it. It hits hard to..

Maybe try something like this


1(W). +2 Dodge, Spell Focus: Conjuration
2(W).
3(W). +1 Mobility
4(W).
5(W). +1 Extend Spell
6(W). +1 Toughness
7(W).
8(W).
9(W). +1 Brew Potion
10(W). +1 Maximize Spell
11(W).
12(W). +1 Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
13(W).
14(W).
15(W). +2 Craft Wand, empower spell
16(W).
17(W).
18(W). +1 Stealthy
19(SD).
20(W). +1 Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration
21(W). +1 Mummy Dust
22(SD).
23(W).
24(W). +2 Greater Ruin, ESF: Hide
25(SD).
26(SD).
27(W). +1 Epic Spell: Of Your Choice (But not another summon!)
28(SD).
29(SD).
30(W). +1 Great Intelligence

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:35 PM 

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You have plenty of skillpoints to spare as a wizard with, apparently, at least 22 Intelligence. So of course you'll have 20 Hide by level 19, when you take your first SD level. You will obviously want to maximize your Hide and Move Silently.

You'll also probably have 30 Tumble, right? Free AC is nothing to scoff at, even if you don't intend to get hit a lot. In any case, 14 Tumble is enough to make you immune to Attacks of Opportunity from moving, which means Spring Attack doesn't do anything. So I'd definetely sooner take 14 (15) ranks in Tumble than waste a feat on Spring Attack, even if I thought it important to move freely in combat.

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:46 PM 

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I was planning on this character to not have any AC, so Tumble would be a waste.

Here is a revision-

Azra-

L24 Wizard
L6 Shadowdancer

1(W). +2, Dodge, Mobility
2(W).
3(W). +1 Spell Focus: Conjuration
4(W).
5(W). +1 Extend Spell
6(W). +1 Toughness
7(W).
8(W).
9(W). +1 Skill Focus: Hide
10(W). +1 Maximize Spell
11(W).
12(W). +1 Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
13(W).
14(W).
15(W). +2 Skill Focus: Move Silently, Spring Attack
16(W).
17(W).
18(W). +1 Stealthy
19(SD).
20(W). +1 Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration
21(W). +1 Mummy Dust
22(SD).
23(W).
24(W). +2 Greater Ruin, Great Intelligence
25(SD).
26(SD).
27(W). +1 Epic Skill Focus: Hide
28(SD).
29(SD).
30(W). +1 Epic Skill Focus: Move Silently

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Palemaster
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:49 PM 

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With no DISC you want tumble.. IF someone gets close and can spot you the tumble could very well save your life.... Its not about the AC per say its about avoiding the AOO's (As a mage you can give yourself pretty decent AC with spells anyways)

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 21:55 PM 

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My sd/Wizard has 57AC, and 90/90 Hide/MS - It's PvM Oriented, and works well...

I can guarantee you, You do want AC, because not having discipline hurts you soooo baaad

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:06 PM 

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Very_Svensk wrote:
My sd/Wizard has 57AC, and 90/90 Hide/MS - It's PvM Oriented, and works well...

I can guarantee you, You do want AC, because not having discipline hurts you soooo baaad


Okay, if my build can achieve this kind of AC (and Hide/MS), then sure. I'm just questioning how 57 AC is possible for having no armor.

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:10 PM 

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Armor adds a few points at best. What's your base Dexterity modifier? Add +6 from maximized Dexterity bonuses. You could grab Epic Mage Armor to give you +5 of every type of AC and free tons of equipment slots. On top of that, there's Haste and Mage Armor for +5 Dodge combined. I'm not sure what boots there are in game, but you should find be able to find +4 Dodge AC for wizards.

You'd want a shield, though. There are large shields with no spell failure in game, but you'd have to drop something from your build.

Spring Attack costs one feat. 15 Tumble costs 15 skill points. You can afford the latter better even if you don't want the AC. And when you drop Spring Attack and go for AC, you can easily afford Shield proficiency.

Listen is also worse than Spot, and generally lower. So you don't necessarily need Epic Skill Focus in MS, certainly not normal skill focus (since it's not a prereq for the epic variant).

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Last edited by IronAngel on Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:28 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:18 PM 

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L24 Wizard
L6 Shadowdancer

1(W). +2, Dodge, Mobility
2(W).
3(W). +1 Spell Focus: Conjuration
4(W).
5(W). +1 Extend Spell
6(W). +1 Toughness
7(W).
8(W).
9(W). +1 Skill Focus: Hide
10(W). +1 Maximize Spell
11(W).
12(W). +1 Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
13(W).
14(W).
15(W). +2 Shield Proficiency, (Craft/Brew?)
16(W).
17(W).
18(W). +1 Stealthy
19(SD).
20(W). +1 Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration (I guess you intend to take a Conjuration-extended EMD?)
21(W). +1 Mummy Dust
22(SD).
23(W).
24(W). +2 Greater Ruin, Great Intelligence
25(SD).
26(SD).
27(W). +1 Epic Skill Focus: Hide
28(SD).
29(SD).
30(W). +1 Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor

Swap order as possible and desired. That's what I'd do, given the general idea you have.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:22 PM 

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Palemaster wrote:
Trust me.. I have in my playervault some of the strongest melee characters on the server, and I know Sven has some pretty smexy powerbuilds aswell. I have both WM's and Cheesy like Barb/Bard/PM's.. EMD buffed is a huge pain and might even spank most of them. I'm even taking into consideration that I swap to a +4 warhammer with 2d6vs Construct. The summon is awesome. EDK however is a waste of space vs anyone.... including a good rogue. Where as EMD is SUCH a pain that in any sort of PVP I would not -ever- consider fighting it, but instead focusing on who ever summoned it. It hits hard to..


It's a tank with crappy ab, imo. *Shrugs* Everyone has their different opinions. EDK though is far from useless for anyone who takes it. There is a lot of little things it has, Fear Aura + True Bioware TS for one, that makes it stand out.

Before the Dev Crit change I might of agreed with you solely because EDK use to be insta deved a lot followed by "LOL". Anywho, this isn't the place to really discuss the, "OMG my level 30 undead cleric shaman summon is better than yours" debate. So with that, ill run off before I am smited for not assisting peeps in builds.

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:24 PM 

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DEX will be 14

Tumble would be mostly a cross-class skill, but I think I'll go for AC, so tumble would be good. I think I will also throw in Epic Mage Armor at L24 instead of Greater Intelligence. More mythal slots would be good for +5 to Hide/MS.

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:27 PM 

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Murex wrote:
DEX will be 14

Tumble would be mostly a cross-class skill, but I think I'll go for AC, so tumble would be good. I think I will also throw in Epic Mage Armor at L24 instead of Greater Intelligence. More mythal slots would be good for +5 to Hide/MS.


Tumble is a Shadowdancer class skill. You don't need to take it on wizard levels, just save the points for those SD levels. Skill-dumping is quite standard practice. You can get 30 by level 27. And yes, freeing up slots is exactly why I think Epic Mage Armor is worth it.

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:30 PM 

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Allright, here is where I stand now-

Azra-

L24 Wizard
L6 Shadowdancer

1(W). +2, Dodge, Mobility
2(W).
3(W). +1 Spell Focus: Conjuration
4(W).
5(W). +1 Extend Spell
6(W). +1 Shield Proficiency
7(W).
8(W).
9(W). +1 Skill Focus: Hide
10(W). +1 Maximize Spell
11(W).
12(W). +1 Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
13(W).
14(W).
15(W). +2 Skill Focus: Move Silently, Spring Attack
16(W).
17(W).
18(W). +1 Stealthy
19(SD).
20(W). +1 Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration
21(W). +1 Mummy Dust
22(SD).
23(W).
24(W). +2 Greater Ruin, Epic Mage Armor
25(SD).
26(SD).
27(W). +1 Epic Skill Focus: Hide
28(SD).
29(SD).
30(W). +1 Epic Skill Focus: Move Silently

(Can Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration be taken at L20???)

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:33 PM 

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I'd play that. But you still have Spring Attack in there. Why? It's not required for Shadowdancer, and it doesn't actually do anything. You're immune to AoE's from moving thanks to your Tumble, anyway.

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:36 PM 

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IronAngel wrote:
I'd play that. But you still have Spring Attack in there. Why? It's not required for Shadowdancer, and it doesn't actually do anything. You're immune to AoE's from moving thanks to your Tumble, anyway.


Immune??? :?

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:38 PM 

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Whenever you move in combat, you provoke attacks of opportunity. Tumble is a skill that lets you roll to avoid these attacks. However, the DC is not the attacker's Attack Roll. The DC is a fixed 15, meaning 14 ranks will always pass the check even if you roll 1.

Spring Attack makes it so you don't provoke attacks of opportunity, it has no other benefit. And since you'll nicely avoid those attacks anyway, it's pointless.

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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:40 PM 

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Do you need the SD HIPS for RP or as greater sanctuary substitute? Anyway, you still want 1 great INT otherwise your INT would be uneven at level 30 and that hurts.


 
      
IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:42 PM 

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hendrack wrote:
Do you need the SD HIPS for RP or as greater sanctuary substitute? Anyway, you still want 1 great INT otherwise your INT would be uneven at level 30 and that hurts.


So take one less Int, maybe. 20 Int is quite enough if you're not casting a lot of offensive spells with DCs. And there's not much of that in Conjuration. This is a cool niche build that won't be an optimal spellcaster, but I think you'll do just fine with only 20 Intelligence and 24 CL.

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:53 PM 

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Yes, this character is basically a sneaky summoner, not an offensive caster. 20 INT will do me just fine I think, maybe I can get more DEX that way and have more AC. I'll take out Spring Attack since I don't seem to need it.

hendrack wrote:
Do you need the SD HIPS for RP or as greater sanctuary substitute?

Both.


Just a couple questions-

1. Can Epic Spell Focus be taken at L20 or not?

2. Do I need high Concentration for the use of the spell Black Blade of Disaster?

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 22:55 PM 

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Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

Its late, mixed up assassin and SD. Unless the HIPS is so essential for roleplay, I'd skip SD alltogether, make something like a 25 wiz 4 fighter 1 rogue with 20 INT (Iron is right there about spell DC being not necessary), rest into STR and make a corner sneaking guy with quarterstaff EWS on tenser's steroids. Armor skin, tumble, EMA and -ASF armor makes quite enough AC. That'd be some cool build instead of all the pseudo-GS HIPSing wizards. I'll just do that sometime in the future. The literal old gnome wizard fart hiding in the bush and whacking you on the head from behind with his walking stick.

Epic spell focus can be taken at wiz 21+. BBoD does not take concentration into account, its still useful for casting spells while taking damage though.


 
      
Palemaster
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 23:18 PM 

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keep the SD

No concentration is needed for BBOD because it checks every round to see if your character is concentrating via his actions. If your hasted you can build up an action queue like this: Spell/emote/spell/emote/spell/emote and cast with BBOD w/o breaking the check. If you time it right. (Spell/heal kit/spell/heal kit) also is easy to use.

That said~ If your a mage, you want at least maxed concentration skill wise.. Trust me. Or you wont be able to cast ANYTHING if something hostile reaches you. And you will be very vulnerable to taunts (Spell failure and reduced AC)

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 23:20 PM 

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Quote:
No concentration is needed for BBOD because it checks every round to see if your character is concentrating via his actions. If your hasted you can build up an action queue like this: Spell/emote/spell/emote/spell/emote and cast with BBOD w/o breaking the check. If you time it right.


And that, Sir, is an exploit.


 
      
Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 23:23 PM 

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Allright, this time with 1 level of Fighter-

Azra-

L23 Wizard
L6 Shadowdancer
L1 Fighter

*Only 5 Tumble ranks as a WIZ
*10 ranks in Hide, and 8 ranks in Move Silently (pre SD)
*Tumble Dump to 15 ranks when SD (or 20 if possible)
*Get Spellcraft to 26


1(W). +2, Dodge, Mobility
2(W).
3(W). +1 Spell Focus: Conjuration
4(W).
5(W). +1 Extend Spell
6(W). +1 Toughness
7(W).
8(W).
9(W). +1 Skill Focus: Hide
10(W). +1 Maximize Spell
11(W).
12(W). +1 Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
13(W).
14(W).
15(W). +2 Skill Focus: Move Silently, Stealthy
16(W).
17(W).
18(W). +1 (?)
19(SD).
20(W). +1 (?)
21(W). +1 Mummy Dust
22(SD).
23(W).
24(W). +2 Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration, Epic Mage Armor
25(SD).
26(SD).
27(W). +1 Greater Ruin
28(SD).
29(SD).
30(F). +2 Epic Skill Focus: Hide, Epic Skill Focus: Move Silently

I needed the extra epic feat so I can get both ESF: Hide, and ESF: MS, just still pondering what to choose for those two pre-epic feats.

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IronAngel
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 23:29 PM 

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You don't get Epic Skill Focus as a Fighter bonus feat, though. On a Ranger you would.

Why don't you try it out in game? You can use console commands to level up easily enough, or download a test module. I use this: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=mo ... il&id=4215

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Palemaster
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 23:32 PM 

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Quote:
And that, Sir, is an exploit.


Its listed in the NWN wiki and a common and valid tactic as far as im concerned. Dont like it? Guess someone should fix a script for it then.


Murex, personally with that build i'd lean more towards dropping the fighter and sticking with the 24wiz. Max your spellcraft, max your concentration, max your tumble, max your hide/ms. You can stick with just ESF hide and be alright w/o the esf MS.

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hendrack
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 23:36 PM 

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Palemaster wrote:
Quote:
And that, Sir, is an exploit.


Its listed in the NWN wiki and a common and valid tactic as far as im concerned. Dont like it? Guess someone should fix a script for it then.


Some things cannot be fixed in a feasable way. Just because the NWNwiki posts exploits doesn't mean you can use them to circumvent intentional behavior of spells on Amia. :D


 
      
Murex
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2010, 23:41 PM 

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Allright, Ranger instead of Fighter. I want high Move Silently and Hide. Thanks for the test module btw, I'll use it.

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Palemaster
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 21 2010, 1:38 AM 

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Quote:
Some things cannot be fixed in a feasable way.


By your logic then, anyone casting any spell with BBOD summoned is using an exploit. Besides, an eight year old with a crayon could implement a script to change BBOD if it is infact considered an exploit. That said, I still disagree that its an exploit.

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Ulir
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 21 2010, 3:29 AM 

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At level 20 you get nothing, since you have 19 wiz levels and one SD level.

11 feats pre-epic if you go 19 wiz/1 sd and 12 feats pre-epic if you go 20 wiz. All about what you might need in pre-epic really. At level 21 with 21 wiz levels you can pick a strong summon to help you. If you go 20 wiz/1 SD, you will have two epic feats, but may not pick an epic summon until level 24, since you need to have 21 caster levels to gain an epic spell (differs with pale masters). The time from 21-24 is not really that long on Amia, if you find a bloodthirsty group.

Like this perhaps?

1 Wiz - Feats: Toughness, Dodge
2 Wiz
3 Wiz - Feat: Mobility
4 Wiz
5 Wiz - Meta: Extend Spell
6 Wiz - Feat: SF: Conj
7 Wiz
8 Wiz
9 Wiz - Feat: GSF: Conj
10 Wiz - Meta: Empower Spell
11 Wiz
12 Wiz - Feat: SF: X school/SF: Hide/Spell Penetration
13 Wiz
14 Wiz
15 Wiz - Feat: GSF: X school/SF: MS/Greater Spell Penetration, Meta: Maximize Spell
16 Wiz
17 Wiz
18 Wiz - Great Fortitude
19 SD
20 Wiz
21 Wiz - Feats: Great Int or ESF: X school (one of the feats has to be from the epic wiz feat list), ESF: Hide
22 SD
23 SD
24 Wiz - Feat: Epic Spell: Mummy Dust or Epic Dragon Knight Rider
25 SD
26 SD
27 Wiz - Feat: Epic Mage Armor (remember 26 spellcraft)
28 SD - Tumble Dump, HiPS
29 Ranger - Feat: ESF: Conj (has to be an epic spell focus feat. The others are not that interesting for casters), Hide/MS Dump etc.
30 Wiz - Feats: Greater Ruin or Hellball, ESF: MS

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 21 2010, 5:25 AM 

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After using that mod, I have come to this conclusion-

Azra-

L23 Wizard
L6 Shadowdancer
L1 Ranger
*Only 5 Tumble ranks as a WIZ
*Get 10 ranks in Hide, and 8 ranks in Move Silently
*Tumble Dump when SD
*Get Spellcraft to 26


1(W). +2, Dodge, Mobility
2(W).
3(W). +1 Toughness
4(W). 17 INT
5(W). +1 Extend Spell
6(W). +1 Spell Focus: Necromancy
7(W).
8(W). 18 INT
9(W). +1 Stealthy
10(W). +1 Shield Proficiency
11(W).
12(W). +1 Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy 19 INT
13(W).
14(W).
15(W). +2 Skill Focus: Move Silently, Skill Focus: Hide
16(W). 20 INT
17(W).
18(W). +1 Maximize Spell
19(W).
20(W). +1 Craft Wand 17 DEX
21(W). +1 Mummy Dust
22(SD).
23(SD).

24(W). +1 Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy 18 DEX
25(SD).
26(SD).

27(W). +2 Greater Ruin, Epic Mage Armor
28(SD). 19 DEX
29(SD).
30(R). +2 Epic Skill Focus: Hide, Epic Skill Focus: Move Silently

Thanks for all the help everyone!

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Murex
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 21 2010, 5:52 AM 

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Since I'm here, I may as well get some questions answered (unrelated to previous posts).

1. Is the spell Finger of Death a Touch attack?

2. At what level do Palemasters become immune to death magic? (or do they?)

3. What are the rules on getting the Winterwight? (32nd–33rd CL ???)

4. Does the +2 AC from Armor Skin stack with the effects of the spell Epic Mage Armor?

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TheCortroy
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 21 2010, 5:57 AM 

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Murex wrote:
Since I'm here, I may as well get some questions answered (unrelated to previous posts).

1. Is the spell Finger of Death a Touch attack?

2. At what level do Palemasters become immune to death magic? (or do they?)

3. What are the rules on getting the Winterwight? (32nd–33rd CL ???)

4. Does the +2 AC from Armor Skin stack with the effects of the spell Epic Mage Armor?


1. No, it is not.
2. They don't become immune to death magic, only Crits, Sneaks, and Stuns.
3. Becoming a PM adds +2 CL to your stuff, allowing you to get Winterwight. I would add further explanation, but I'm not entirely sure.
4. Yes. (I think, at least.)


 
      
Palemaster
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 21 2010, 6:17 AM 

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Sounds like it'll be a pretty decent powerbuild. Should be sauce in most pvp situations. Enjoy!

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Ulir
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 21 2010, 6:20 AM 

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If you have fx 10 levels wizard and 19 levels of pale master, you have a caster level of 29. Add the +3 that the Summon Greater Undead gives you as a pale master and you're at caster level 32 and can summon a Winterwight. So, you can basically not use more than one level on another class, without losing the Winterwight. 20 wiz/10 pm fx would give you caster level of 33.
Check out the "Summons" section.
Remember that +1 ecl would mean that you have to use all your levels on pm and wiz or pm and sorcerer. Wiz fits best though, since high int makes your arm attacks stronger.

Armor skin stacks with everything. Only selectable once from the epic feat list.

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