AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mk. IV

You said it doesn't work. But it does work.

For the loss of 1 AB/Damage he can nab 60 HP and +2 fort by pushing his con up to 12/13 which he'll grow to love.

Meh, now you tell me. I'm already level 7 so it's a bit late for that. I've never found low HP particularly problematic though, considering my other melee PCs are a bard and a cleric. I guess I'll manage, and rebuild later if it gets really annoying.

Tssk. The way you've chosen is the best way.

Parry, what does it do, how does it work, and is it worth taking on a rogue?

Nope, not really. So far I've heard it's really sexy on a single build, though never bothered enough to test it myself on different types of setouts.

Bards make good Parry masters.

Bards are the -only- good parry masters and they require devastating.

MoshingChris wrote:

Bards are the -only- good parry masters and they require devastating.

How come?

Bard songs bonus skill points effectively. Means you can still bump your discipline and saves high enough whilst not wasting huge amounts of gear slots on the parry skill..

could anyone give answers to my question? It seemed to be ignored.

TeroSNS wrote:

could anyone give answers to my question? It seemed to be ignored missed.

Fixed. That's what generally happens, unfortunately.
And I would help, but I've never played an AA. Want to, though lol

I'd advice you to scroll through the last 10 pages or so. Every basic AA build has been mentioned and the layouts for most have been given.

MoshingChris wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Honorable mention goes to the Bard/AA because it partybuffs better than the cleric.

And a Wizard is only good if its got enough Wizard levels. 21 isn't enough.

The top five AA builds I've played, played with or played against are:

28 Cleric 1 Bard 1 AA Zen Archering Caster Cleric.
21 Cleric 2 Bard 7 AA Dex/Cha Cleric (Ridiculous AC aswell as the mentioned damage and AB)
10(9)Monk 1(2)Wizard 19 AA
18 AA 10 Fighter 2 Bard
17 Rogue 2 Bard 11 AA

I don't rate the Bard/AA at all since running in and cursing and running back out to shoot is counter-intuitive, thus doesn't even rate an honorable mention in my book.

*Pant pant pant*
There, Saved you some searching..

Quick Question Regarding Arcane Archers:

Can they use scrolls and wands to cast spells to enchant their arrows for bonus elemental damage via imbue arrow?

Or do they have to be able to cast the spells personally?

Thinking about starting an Arcane Archer, but am unsure how many lvls of wizard to take.

It seems like if they can just use bought wands and scrolls to enchant their arrows, then they don't really need to take more than one wizard level to benefit fully from Imbue Arrow.

So, I was thinking some kind of build along the lines of:

1 Wiz/9 Ranger/ 20 Arcane Archer.

Or 1 Wiz/9 Fighter/ 20 Arcane Archer.

I def. want all 20 arcane archer for Enchant arrow +10 :mrgreen:

Do these builds look viable? And please, no comments on how a cleric archer is superior. It just won't fit the concept I have in mind.

Thanks.

You can get enchant +10 with 19 AA. That gives yu one level in epic for either epic weapon specialization, or tumble/UMD.

Snape75 wrote:

Quick Question Regarding Arcane Archers:

Can they use scrolls and wands to cast spells to enchant their arrows for bonus elemental damage via imbue arrow?

Or do they have to be able to cast the spells personally?

Yes, scrolls and wands and even equipment that allows castings will work for AA's Imbue Arrow... or it did the last time I played mine.

For AA build, just look up a few posts and you'll see a few quite nasty ones there.

Well that was dumb of me. The posts relating to AA are sitting RIGHT above me.

I think I'll go with 1 wiz/ 9 ranger/ 20 AA or
1 wiz/ 10 ranger/ 19 AA.

Thanks Tormak, for correcting me on Enchant arrow.

Ranger fits the character concept better - as he's going to be an outdoor guy. A wastelander, if you will.

Bard just wouldn't make an ounce of sense. Studying just a few formulae from whatever magical goods he's scavanged in the Waste Lands over the years, he has one lvl of wiz - I can sort of buy this.

Thanks your help!

Ahh, okay, I know why Hide/MS weren't merging - the shapes already had natural bonuses to them. Is this supposed to be happening?

Quick Question-

Would a Monk with a shield be in any way impaired when fighting with fists?

yes, he would lose monk attack progression on unarmed and kama attacks and usage of flurry of blows.
edit: and even ac bonuses and speed

A monk's UBAB, armor class bonuses (from wisdom and every 5 levels), and speed are all negated when the monk wears armor other than clothing or uses a shield.
-nwnwiki

so basicly, with shield you are a fighter with increased unarmed damage, bab progression of 3/4, and without any kind of armor.

Howeve,r you can still do a hilarious full plate tower shield weilding monk 20/fighter 4/CoT6 in unarmed feats and RP combatting with Cestus and shield whacks.

I'd approve of that.

Alamut wrote:

Any ideas about how to build a BG with Great Smite ? Since BGs are vs good alignments I was wondering to max it's peculiarity with Great Smite. Since I'm used to build Dev, I have no idea how to build it.

At first, something with Cleric and BG's levels ?

MoshingChris wrote:

I don't know why you just don't stick with the Build you've got now Alamut. The Balance Change really had no effect on BG's other than taking away the ability to one-shot with Dev and that was taken away from everyone.

And Divine Favor. But as I said, I was just wondering if it was possible to build a Great Smite Blackguard. But it seems it's not possible.

It would, but I have a strong feeling that it wouldn't be as half as good as paladin build would be.

Well, apart from the obvious fact that there's not much Good stuff to smite outside of PvP, you have a problem with low class levels. Your class level can't go above 20, which immediately drops your Smiting damage a good deal. You do get Great Smiting as an epic bonus feat, so it's feasible. It doesn't even seem to require any acrobatics. However, it's a one-trick pony with less AB and less Smiting damage than the Paladin, so it's not even a very good one-trick pony.

TormakSaber wrote:

Howeve,r you can still do a hilarious full plate tower shield weilding monk 20/fighter 4/CoT6 in unarmed feats and RP combatting with Cestus and shield whacks.

I'd approve of that.

"Feel the wrath of God!" *Emotes Fisting the ground* (Casts Earthquake!)

alamut wrote:

I was just wondering if it was possible to build a Great Smite Blackguard. But it seems it's not possible.

It is possible.

Starting with 20 CHA gets you a max of Great Smite VII; 19 CHA with G.Smite VI, 18 CHA with G.Smite V, 17 CHA with G.Smite IV, and 16 & 15 CHA with G.Smite II.

But it still blows goats, now if the blackguard had a spell book with progression per level then maybe we'd be in business. But it doesn't.

MoshingChris wrote:

But it still blows goats, now if the blackguard had a spell book with progression per level then maybe we'd be in business. But it doesn't.

Yeah, this is pretty much the other issue that kills it. Paladins get sweet AB from a bunch of sweet spells. Blackguards don't, and your Strength will suck. (See my min-maxed Paladin build earlier this page.) The other issue is, of course, the fact that you'll never have more than 20 HD to count for Smite.

Which is perfectly reasonable, I've seen a blighter smiter with only 23 HD Run amok with Smite 4.

The build I believe was the somewhat versatile 23 Paladin 6 Fighter 1 Rogue.

::PrC: Runescarred Berserker::
Race: Human (Rashemi)
Classes: 20 Barbarian 9 Cleric 1 Harper Scout
Required Feats: Iron Will, Toughness, Alertness
Cleric Domains: Travel, Plant

Special Class Abilities:
Runescar: Grants the Berserker the ability to store spells within his runescars for use at a later date. The Berserker can store spells equal to a casters base spell progression using Runescarred Berserker levels as his caster level.

For the purposes of NwN these are:
PfE, Endure Elements, Bulls Strength, Endurance, See Invisibility, Freedom of Movement, Magical Weapon, Healing Spells, Spell Resistance, Haste, Divine Power, Divine Favor, Deathward

Ritual Scarring: The Berserker gains +1 natural AC at third level, +2 at sixth level, +3 at ninth level (plant domain bark skin mimics this ability)

Base Abilities:
18 strength (26)
8 dexterity
12 constitution
15 wisdom
10 intelligence
8 charisma

1 - 18 Barbarian:
Feats: Weapon Focus, Blindfight, Improved Critical, Knockdown, Power Attack, Toughness, Iron Will, Alertness
19 -20 Cleric:
21 Cleric: Great Strength
22 Cleric
23 Cleric:
24 Cleric: Armor Skin
25 Cleric:
26 Cleric:
27 Barbarian: Thundering Rage
28 Harper Scout: ESF Discipline (Tumble 30)
29 Cleric:
30 Barbarian: Terrifying Rage

Skillpoints: 114
Lore(mimic craft: scarring): 5 Ranks
Intimidate: 33 ranks
Search: 2 Ranks
Discipline: 33 Ranks
Tumble: 30 Ranks

Yeah just a bit of fun on part.

Take a look a this build:
16fighter/4bard/10pm (15/3/2 pre epic)

Tuigan
STR:19 -> 26
DEX:9
CON:14
INT:14
WIS:eight
CHA:eight

LVL:
1f: Luck of heroes, strong soul, exotic weap.
2f: Weap. focus: dwarven waraxe
3f: Toughness
4f: Weap. spec: Dwarven waraxe
5f: -
6f: reflex, KD
7f: -
8f: Imp. KD
9f: fortitude
10f: expertice
11f: -
12f: will, imp. expertice
13f: -
14f: blind fight
15b: extra song
16b: -
17f: -
18b: lasting song (or whatever its called)
19pm: -
20pm: -
21pm: epic. weap focus
22pm: -
23pm: -
24f: epic weap spec, armor skin
25pm: -
26pm: -
27pm: epic prowness
28pm: -
29pm: -
30b: ESF in something, or one of the epic savings

Skills: Disc, UMD, Tumble, Heal, Spellcraft all maxed, perform: 9, abit left over

Thoughts: Too crappy?, too cheesy?, too used? what could be better?
I'm not talking of the RP behind the bard and pm lvls (or the 8 in CHA on a bard for that matter), this is the build thread, not the RP thread

Builds like that make me wonder why Pale Masters aren't given the undead template and made turnable.

I was curious as to Feats when playing the Shifter class. Is there a list anywhere of ones that are pretty much useless to take because your forms override or negate their function?

To Kev: If you're planning on using 1 shape, say a risen, you should take scythe feats. For general shifter builds, alot of people take skill focus or resist energy. Remember that many forms are 'unarmed', so unarmed feats can be useful.

Zifon wrote:

Take a look a this build:
16fighter/4bard/10pm (15/3/2 pre epic)

Tuigan
STR:19 -> 26
DEX:9
CON:14
INT:14
WIS:eight
CHA:eight

LVL:
1f: Luck of heroes, strong soul, exotic weap.
2f: Weap. focus: dwarven waraxe
3f: Toughness
4f: Weap. spec: Dwarven waraxe
5f: -
6f: reflex, KD
7f: -
8f: Imp. KD
9f: fortitude
10f: expertice
11f: -
12f: will, imp. expertice
13f: -
14f: blind fight
15b: extra song
16b: -
17f: -
18b: lasting song (or whatever its called)
19pm: -
20pm: -
21pm: epic. weap focus
22pm: -
23pm: -
24f: epic weap spec, armor skin
25pm: -
26pm: -
27pm: epic prowness
28pm: -
29pm: -
30b: ESF in something, or one of the epic savings

Skills: Disc, UMD, Tumble, Heal, Spellcraft all maxed, perform: 9, abit left over

Thoughts: Too crappy?, too cheesy?, too used? what could be better?
I'm not talking of the RP behind the bard and pm lvls (or the 8 in CHA on a bard for that matter), this is the build thread, not the RP thread

You're a 10PM. You will have an abundance of AC
#1 Go Scythe.
#2 Focus on Dev.Crit
#3 Try Disarm/Imp.Disarm. The bigger the weapon 'You' use, The Bigger the AB Boost you get.

FattyBunny wrote:

To Kev: If you're planning on using 1 shape, say a risen, you should take scythe feats. For general shifter builds, alot of people take skill focus or resist energy. Remember that many forms are 'unarmed', so unarmed feats can be useful.

Weapon Focus: Unarmed doesn't apply when you're shifted. Only Improved Critical, so don't take the focuses. Other than that, there's not a whole lot of truly useless ones.

MoshingChris wrote:

But it still blows goats, now if the blackguard had a spell book with progression per level then maybe we'd be in business. But it doesn't.

Instead I'am for stacking BG+Cleric CLs for divine favor and GMW, that would make the BG class more appealing. But that flies in the face of lore and balance, probably.

Very_Svensk wrote:

You're a 10PM. You will have an abundance of AC
#1 Go Scythe.
#2 Focus on Dev.Crit
#3 Try Disarm/Imp.Disarm. The bigger the weapon 'You' use, The Bigger the AB Boost you get.

Man, others will get angry at this cheesy build if it even disarms them aswell..
With shield it has AC:57 (67 with imp expertice on), and the crit and sneak immunities. AB, is 46 with 26 in STR btw.
He could afford going scythe I guess, its just that:
1. shields here are +7 AC, yummy and they can be mythalled.
2. Every scythe players I have seen here act like 13 years old powergamers,,,I guess this build are in that league

Luckily as an RP'er first and builder 21st I can refuse to help you build that zifon. Funny fact is that I helped another player build pretty much that exact build a few hours ago because he/she gave me very good RP reasons behind why they were taking that class combination.

On an RP server there is no distinction between build and rp, and the best builders on the server, who happen to be among the best RP'ers on the server won't touch that class combination with a ten foot pole.

Its also not cheesy, its actual a fairly mediocre bordering on poor build as it stands, and svensk advice would make it even more-so.

I think many of us are wice enough to cook up some RP that could justify even this build:
"He was a normal fighter that got caught by Tarkuul mages who preformer their evil necromancy deeds on him".
That way he dosent even have to be evil, no pally-smiting here.
But lets not kid eachother, we all know the bard and pm lvls are for +6 AC and the immunities.
I couldnt care less what kind of build other players make, its their behaveour with that build that matters imo.
If some start to misbehave, mainly in pvp, then its time for the hammer, not before.
Just my humble opinion.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

FattyBunny wrote:

To Kev: If you're planning on using 1 shape, say a risen, you should take scythe feats. For general shifter builds, alot of people take skill focus or resist energy. Remember that many forms are 'unarmed', so unarmed feats can be useful.

Weapon Focus: Unarmed doesn't apply when you're shifted. Only Improved Critical, so don't take the focuses. Other than that, there's not a whole lot of truly useless ones.

Raaaaaage!

Zifon that is a terrible way to look at it.

Honestly saying that you are just looking for the +6AC and immunities is even more disheartening and sends the wrong message about you as a player to me as both a player and a developer. It says you aren't here for the story, your here to play an arcade game and believe that you can win Amia.

FattyBunny wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

FattyBunny wrote:

To Kev: If you're planning on using 1 shape, say a risen, you should take scythe feats. For general shifter builds, alot of people take skill focus or resist energy. Remember that many forms are 'unarmed', so unarmed feats can be useful.

Weapon Focus: Unarmed doesn't apply when you're shifted. Only Improved Critical, so don't take the focuses. Other than that, there's not a whole lot of truly useless ones.

Raaaaaage!

Heh...well I had a few open spots in my build so I wanted to make sure the direction I picked didn't end up biting me in the arse later.

MoshingChris wrote:

Zifon that is a terrible way to look at it.

Honestly saying that you are just looking for the +6AC and immunities is even more disheartening and sends the wrong message about you as a player to me as both a player and a developer. It says you aren't here for the story, your here to play an arcade game and believe that you can win Amia.

First of all, I havent said I'm going to play that build.
Secondly, I think most if not all builds here are tuned in to be stronger, not for RP reasons, but for mecanical reasons.
When a player take a lvl of rogue at the end of his warrior build, its hardly RP justified, its for the tumble/UMD skill dump.

*wishes Amia had a minimum 3 level rule where everyone multi-classing needs to take a minimum of 3 levels in any additional class by lvl 30*

DustSpray101 wrote:

*wishes Amia had a minimum 3 level rule where everyone multi-classing needs to take a minimum of 3 levels in any additional class by lvl 30*

You realize that the stated PM build is normally 10 fighter/4 bard/16 PM or 16 fighter/4 bard/10 PM and thus satisfies your requirements while not cutting down on the "cheese" at all, right? Meaning that your suggestion hasn't donw aht you wanted it to at all.

I meant this more as a blanket statment. 3 levels of rogue for instance in a warrior build so that they can tumble dump adds the RP of them actually bothering to have learned how to be a rogue, etc. It won't curb cheese, but it will make it smell a little better.

Not really. It's nothing but a cosmetic change that might make feel you a little better about yourself/others but offer no additional substance to the story. Not to mention the fact that 3 rogue nets you more skillpoints, 2d6 Sneaks, Evasion and Uncanny Dodge, so it's often better than just 1 rogue. >_< Don't take this as evidence why that specific blanket rule is poor, but rather conclude that blanket rules are usually bad by default.

Mosh: I bet you can Great Smite with only 20 HD, but it's pretty pointless because you effectively waste half your epic feats in comparison to a pure Paladin/COT. Every Great Smite you take is only 2/3 of the power of the same feat on the latter build. The loss is really big.

luckily we are yet to see kamehamehadoken which wipes everyone.
thanks for answering to my AA question

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