That bit makes it impossible. Disco has already said quite a few times that scripts for that kinda thing would lag the server to high heaven. It's basically the same type of scripting that would be used for patrolling guards that react to PC's.

Which brings up the point that 80% of the shop's on Amia are in guard patrolled towns, so you'd need a DM present.

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

This is why I was suggesting only items created by the job system be liftable. This would make these items, and as a result the job system, more pertinent to the game. Otherwise it's just mean more loot grinding.

EDIT: Obviously money as well.

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Jess Incognito: F.L.A.G. Inc.
Gharl Killith: Hobgoblin Headhunter
Olaf Grudgebringer: Bad tempered Dwarvern Weaponsmith
"But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation."

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, Selvec.

There's an option on Merchants that let's them not accept stolen goods. I'm just saying that should be taken off in the interested of not metagaming what's been "rightfully" stolen from and by PC's.

Or were you talking about my suggestion for a script that determines what is looted off a PC?

So is there anything else to be added here or do we lock it up?

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Jess Incognito: F.L.A.G. Inc.
Gharl Killith: Hobgoblin Headhunter
Olaf Grudgebringer: Bad tempered Dwarvern Weaponsmith
"But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation."

In a world of scrying, and personal attachment to items, something being lost which was important to your PC can -always- be found and attained. With the right amount of effort unless its destroyed in a forge/magic.

However in a module in NWN, it being sold to a vendor, binned, dropped on the ground.. eaten by the Craftmonster.. things can just cease to be. Too many ways for it to just go poof forever. Just unmade.

You steal it, and .. its gone and not recoverable. That one of the major issues I've always had. Another is permanency of punishment. Stealing is permanent change for some PCs. In an environment where rules state such is not the purview of another player to inflict on a player it is at best a faux pas, at worse a legal griefing mechanism if it is instituted that is weighted heavily in the favor of the griefer.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

This is exactly the crux of the issue. The fact that the rules and the general server culture accept the player's ultimate right to the untouchability of their PC is the fact that keeps us from making many changes.

Griefing is a scare word that doesn't hold much weight as an argument: griefing is illegal, and it will remain illegal no matter what kind of changes to thievery, muggings and criminal punishments we implement. Griefing is easy to track and easier to stop. Griefing is, for the most part, a non-issue on Amia. On the more "hardcore" servers I've played, it's even less of an issue, so the correlation between griefing and IC freedoms and consequences seems to be an inversed one.

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This is also why I suggested a term of 'reasonable limits'. Job System stuff only was the first big one.

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Jess Incognito: F.L.A.G. Inc.
Gharl Killith: Hobgoblin Headhunter
Olaf Grudgebringer: Bad tempered Dwarvern Weaponsmith
"But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation."

I'm not gonna get into you on the 'crux of the issue' just the issue with the Status quo and how it stands now.

I'm also not gonna go there because it gets close to judging other's RP.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Well, the whole point of this thread is unhappiness with the status quo of criminal RP. If you want to state how matters stand now, that's fine. It's a moot point in discussing change though, since that change extends to the very thing you use as a point against it. Make no mistake: no matter what cosmetic changes you conservatively apply to ease the pain, absolutely nothing will change until we rightfully let go of the principle that we are in control of our own characters. That, and that alone, is the biggest obstacle to much RP on Amia.

To deal with the items disappearing issue you brought up, there are many options. The practicalities are really just that, secondary problems that can be worked around easily enough when there's a unified vision of what we want to do. No point getting stuck on them before there's a consensus on the direction to be taken. For example, you could limit free stealing to gold, or require that theft of all customized or unique items be reported to the DMs so that the items can be tracked and don't end up disappearing for good. But it shouldn't be a big deal, since it's your job not to carry irreplaceable junk around.

There's no scrying or other searching methods readily available on Amia anyway. You're looking for excuses if you use them as an argument. We need to live with what we get, and it shouldn't be too hard to deal with being able to store only a limited number of valuable items and risking permanent disappearance of any items you carry on your person. It might seem unfair right now if someone demanded everything you carry in your inventory, because you've freely assumed they're stashed away somewhere safe. But if we change this, everyone will know what to expect and can prepare accordingly. Most PCs are homeless adventurers, and even the few that rent those expensive apartments have limited storage space there. Not that a house couldn't be broken into. You'd just have to accept that the wealthier you are, the greater the potential loss. If you know it and expect it, it's not "unfair" or "unrealistic."

Of course, greater opportunities for crime should come with a greater risk of imprisonment, permanent slavery, loss of limb and even execution. If you want to take the risk and mug that celebrity for the Vorpal Sword he carries around, you also take the risk of getting publically and permanently sentenced to death.

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Okay so the point went over your heads. Alright I'll explain.

When someone steals something from an NPC merchant, or even a PC merchant, in cities like Cordor, they need to be aware that NPC guards are present around them, as is the NPC himself. If the theft is done, the guards must not be ignored, and thus a script would need to be put in place to make sure the guards roll spot and take appropriate actions for the theft. The alternative is not to use guards with scripts, which would require a DM, as your not allowed to ignore the NPC guards. In which case changing things to steal from a merchant is a waste of time as you currently need a DM to steal from an NPC merchant as it currently is.

Better?

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

Not unhappiness, genuine curiosity. I wanted to know what everyone thought about criminal RP, wether or not it even existed and so on.

As to the stealing of stuff from PCs... everyone keeps jumping directly to the assumption that the first thing to go will be the vorpal sword of smashness or something. It doesn't have to start there... what about gold and infinite items (potions, job system stuff. etc...). Stealing somethinf epic should take careful planning and execution (ie; dm oversight)... stealing a few bits of wood or some coins shouldn't.

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Jess Incognito: F.L.A.G. Inc.
Gharl Killith: Hobgoblin Headhunter
Olaf Grudgebringer: Bad tempered Dwarvern Weaponsmith
"But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation."

As a player of a character who is a licensed Citizen of Cordor, I would accept these risks if I'm given the ability to store my items as well as my coin. It's been long overdue for some sort of 'Bank' on the isle of Amia, as I've see a good deal of characters who do business transactions with Jack use Bank notes. An actual form of storage would be good as well. Morgan & Sons is cool, store 20 items. But as I recall I use to get yelled at by the game every time I logged on..

"YOU ARE CURrENTLY CARRYING 738 ITEMS, PLEASE TRASH OR SELL SOME UNTIL YOU ARE BELOW 500."

20 item storage doesn't do much good for merchant PC's. I'd be all for chances to be stolen from, if I'm allowed to have ways to keep from being stolen from.

Shit, I've opened a number chances to be stolen from which, mechanically, I would have no way of getting my items back. When I do business privately, I've blatantly dropped the item in question right on a counter as a merchant would normally do. Items' I've done this with items ranging from simple suits, to Greatsword's Sure Strike and Perfect Mythal's. I've used what I can, also mechanically but somewhat RPly, to deter people from attempting. This would be my bodyguards who know that the second the customer attempts to touch the item without being invited to, or after they have been invited if they attempt to move away from the counter they are to subdue the customer immediately and remove said item from their person.

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Jack Tesilent - Jack's Bio