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Janna Ogder
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 Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 14:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Sep 2010
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TormakSaber wrote: Someone didn't see where I specifically said that those posts were made as a lampshading and parodying the extreme drama in the rest of that topic. I saw it. I've always taken your posts as I think you've meant them. I always begin at the assumption that when someone posts, if they seem to be a little acerbic, it is usually tongue-in-cheek. Jumping right to "this guy is a complete asshole" is, to me, a bad assumption in most cases, and one that I have fell victim to on occasion, when the intended meaning of a post is lost in the roar of knees jerking. I've been on the interwebs since 97, and have grown some tough skin.
_________________
I hated hipsters before hating them was cool.
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Estara
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 16:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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IronAngel wrote:
He's hardly the only one guilty, though. I almost feel bad for ragging on him with good reason, when so many others do so for little reason.
Oh, I'll call myself out. I definitely am sometimes! Just so everyone knows.
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 16:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Tormak wrote: I just want to say.... I don't appreciate the PMS and MSNs I got blaming me for this and saying Amia is now only reserved for the "elite". I guess this was a kneejerk reaction but I don't appreicate being blamed for it, or nything like that. Thanks. I was gone this whole weekend so coming home to that was a rather unwelcome treat,and tells me more than a bit about how people think of me. IronAngel wrote: I can't stand his forum presence (as a DM he's a nice guy, IMO) No doubt, he does a his job as a DM. I totally agree on that. But well, you reap what you sow.
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hendrack
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 16:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Sometimes it would help if I knew some forum posters gender. Then I'd know if they're just mean or suffer mood swings. 
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Ramika
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 16:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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The forum behavior I can ignore. I've had worse problems with MSN and other people. If people go way too overboard, yeah... they should have at least a warning thrown their way. I say 'people' because despite everyone seemingly going after a few DMs... I've seen almost as bad, if not worse, from players over the years I've been here.
_________________
Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu
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ShadowSoul89
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 17:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Location: Somewhere...
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Ramika wrote: The forum behavior I can ignore. I've had worse problems with MSN and other people. If people go way too overboard, yeah... they should have at least a warning thrown their way. I say 'people' because despite everyone seemingly going after a few DMs... I've seen almost as bad, if not worse, from players over the years I've been here. And as far as the mentioned DMs go, I see them as Gregory House. They may come off as harsh sometimes, but they know what they are doing. I let it go with an occasional chuckle.
_________________
Retired
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Dwagin
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 20:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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He who laughs at the folly of man will always be amused.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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Janna Ogder
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 21:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Sep 2010
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Dwagin wrote: He who laughs at the folly of man will always be amused. Which explains the constant shit-eating grin on my face.
_________________
I hated hipsters before hating them was cool.
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feycourtier
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 22:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2008
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Im on Tormaks side here,the school anology is good though. Try being a DM for a day...go on,try it...you can do it streight through gamespy. I was a DM on server for a while,not a hands on one ,my job was too approve/reject char builds,races etc..I lasted 3 months... Its pure Hell, and I still get hate mail! All praise too the people who do it...especially the ones who have too give out smacks. there is a guy here who,imho, summed it up with his web-com,hang on I,ll find it... here you go.. http://jjsattic.com/DMsDiscretion/index.php?id=1This is so true,really.
_________________
I havn`t got time today.....I`ll cry tomorrow..
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drahgon
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 3:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho
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I used to DM on a more laid back server, was a lot of fun. Of course it wasn't nearly the size (both players and server) of Amia nor as complex. Really though, its just all about what you put into it, if you want to take everything seriously you will be pulling your hair out by the end of the week. Everything just needs to be taken with a grain of salt. If needed, log off and go find something to de-stress. This being said to both DM and Players alike, including myself.
oh and feycourtier... I bookmarked that page, hilarious lol
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Keelah Se'lai
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 3:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Dramatic_Prince wrote: Tormak wrote: I just want to say.... I don't appreciate the PMS and MSNs I got blaming me for this and saying Amia is now only reserved for the "elite". I guess this was a kneejerk reaction but I don't appreicate being blamed for it, or nything like that. Thanks. I was gone this whole weekend so coming home to that was a rather unwelcome treat,and tells me more than a bit about how people think of me. IronAngel wrote: I can't stand his forum presence (as a DM he's a nice guy, IMO) No doubt, he does a his job as a DM. I totally agree on that. But well, you reap what you sow. That's really creepy. Are you like searching the topics for anytime people give me shit? I don't need a stalker.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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drahgon
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 3:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho
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I want a stalker 
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Keelah Se'lai
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 3:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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I actually get quite miffed when its always Yoss and Tormak being brought up in this topic. Prior to his resignation due to real life I'm sure Ron would have copped it aswell.
But thats mainly because I'm an Aussie and what you guys call flaming and rudeness I call a normal conversation. Cultural differences and probably the reason I've had a complaint or two made against me in PM's.
I will try to moderate the level of indignation and annoyance that i get from repeating myself in Improving Amia 46 million times.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Yossarin
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 4:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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I make the Herculean effort not to take it personally, though, and just accept the criticism as an indication that I'm losing the necessary respect and capital I need with the players to actually work things out for the betterment of the server.
Herculean is a word for the Lexicon thread...
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 4:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Your all gits.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Palemaster
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 4:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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No YOUR a git!
_________________
The Old Man ~ Tribe of the Damned
All comments above are strictly the biased opinion of a player.
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 4:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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TormakSaber wrote: Are you like searching the topics for anytime people give me shit? One does not have to look very far or very hard. Poop slinging back and forth with the players; I don't think that's appropriate behaviour for a forum mod. Of course, that's just one opinion with regards to what this thread is addressing.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 4:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Palemaster wrote: No YOUR a git! Your mothers a git.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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762
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 4:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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Yoss? Wut?
_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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Mahtan
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 5:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 May 2006
Location: That place with the green grass and that blue sky.
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I haven't posted here because I have little good to say to this crowd. Just now I am really getting disappointed in many of the people here. I try to keep things going nicely as I can with every single one of you, yet I have to read shit like this.
Big thing is, the moderators and DMs are not on the levels of players, we are a step above and do have authority over these forums and game. I agree with the claims of lead by example, which is really what I have tried to do as positive as possible with this community, even venting elsewhere so I do not go off in your faces. The one thing I will not stand though is this constant being walked over. The DM's that take the most heat around here are the ones that get walked over at nearly ever possible opportunity. Of course they are fed up and pissed at a number of you and will take a more defensive stance with some individuals and even with some topic subjects that have lead to them being taken as a joke.
Now I am getting tired of this, grow up already and learn your places, for lack of better terms. If you can not cooperate with the authority we have here, leave. Some of the people posting here I am really sad to the stances you took here against the DMs. If there is serious problems going on here, take it up with that person individually, none of us here are against solving beef you got against us. But this garbage I see here with basically trying to get the DMs to display "Bad behavior" rather than flat out banning you for continued baiting and testing our patience.
Nearly all of you here I like to think we stay on pretty good terms and we can seriously talk to each other when we got some trouble with one another. I am just at the end of watching this stuff go by, hoping it will pass or the community will see how stupid most of these arguments are. I've seen the majority of this topic being trash talking about the DMs. Then Tormak and Yoss come on the DMs behalf and take it all directly in the public.
So if you guys have anything serious left to say that needs an answer, PM me, add to MSN, whatever. Just keep this endless rant off the forums.
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Mahtan
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 5:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 May 2006
Location: That place with the green grass and that blue sky.
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To clarify the Quote: "If you can not cooperate with the authority we have here, leave." because yes I was a bit more irritated and I have the fixed mentality of "if you're only hear to complain and not willing to work with people, leave and don't waste my time." I am willing to work with people before that point if they are willing to work with me seriously. This was not saying "GTFO if you do not agree with me."
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762
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 6:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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Mahtan Tasadur wrote: If you can not cooperate with the authority we have here, leave. I respect you Mahtan, but be careful what you wish for. This is a two way street. No one will care if I as an individual leaves, but if enough people perceive a problem and the staff ignores it, then everyone loses. People HAVE left because of the exact problem under discussion. I've talked to several of them. So this is not a trivial matter. And I think this thread is evidence enough that a problem exists. With authority comes responsibility. When anyone in a position of authority ignores that responsibility, it creates a ripple of discontent that sends waves throughout the community in question. I've been on both sides of this coin. I've adminned on contentious forums where flamewars broke out every day, and banned people as a result. But I always in doing so maintained a level of professionalism and decorum, because I knew damn well my credibility in the community would drop to zilch in a heartbeat if I didn't, and the problem would get worse. Adminning those forums was a shit job. You guys have a shit job. You couldn't get me to do it with a salary, and I empathize strongly with all the whining and bullshit you all need to put up with on a daily basis. But when we, the responsible players, the ones who actually make an effort to sympathize and make your lives as easy as possible, have to deal with the same bullshit in return, over something we had no part of, it sort of makes us not want to sympathize anymore, and just say f*ckit. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. So please let's not gloss over this issue by saying you guys have a hard job. I know goddamn well you do, and I think most players do. And even if some of the players act like douchebags and make your lives unhappy, I think the ones who don't do that deserve a bit of professional respect by default. I'm sorry to say it, but it comes with the job. (As a personal disclaimer, I can be a douche on the forums on occasion, and can live with being treated as one when I do. What pisses me off is when I'm making an extra effort to be civil and get my head bitten off by a DM anyway.)
_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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Mahtan
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 6:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 May 2006
Location: That place with the green grass and that blue sky.
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Thank you, and I know it can, and I know it comes with the job. There is much better sides to it though that makes it worth it.
Just I get tired of seeing that its the entire team, and we all ruin the game for people. That stuff is starting to get to me and all this forum behavior stuff, and the "Fight the power" and Rebel troops I have to read all about, it gets me to where I wonder why I even bother some times.
So, putting my self out there now, offering so we can try and understand each other better. The people that ignore this offer and continue are the ones that don't want to work to a solution and rather just argue. (Or of course just missed this post <.<)
Yes the cooperate or leave was a bit harsh but it will get some people thinking more than other words I could have said. Kinda goes with the tired of being walked over.
So lets work on something to stop this endless mess we got here that is just turning into spam and baiting.
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Dwagin
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 9:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Mahtan Tasadur wrote: Just I get tired of seeing that its the entire team, and we all ruin the game for people. If someone truly feels that way and stays here anyway they're crazy, or lying about how they feel, or just trying to get your goat. I think the staff put up with far more flack from players on the forums here than I think they should have to. If someone's that unhappy and they can't leave on their own, I ask you do me and everyone else who doesn't want to see it a favor and help them on their departure. Mahtan Tasadur wrote: That stuff is starting to get to me and all this forum behavior stuff, and the "Fight the power" and Rebel troops I have to read all about, it gets me to where I wonder why I even bother some times. I wish that you and the other staff didn't have to feel like you did something wrong for trying to help folks have fun. People are always gonna piss and moan about stuff, some/most of it is just backround noise and should be filtered out. Its sometimes hard to not turn that filter all the way up though, especially if you give a damn cause its sort of like being in an abusive relationship. "Why do I bother trying if I'm just gonna get bit again?" and that leads to jadedness, burn out and cynicism. People are people. People aren't perfect. Gonna screw up, gonna have emotions, stress, crap will still happen. It will always happen.. but we should try to be adults about it and own up to our own faults and try to fix/iron it out, do whatever you can do. Even if that means you know you're having a horrible day and saying, 'You know i shouldnt be around other people, i'm feelin like being a douche.'
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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Dakotaen
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 9:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Location: Denmark
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Mahtan Tasadur wrote: Nearly all of you here I like to think we stay on pretty good terms and we can seriously talk to each other when we got some trouble with one another. I actually think that's the case with most players and DMs, Mahtan. Personally I've rarely had any trouble with anyone on the DM team in-game, it's only really on the forums that I've ever noticed bitching. And that bitching has come from both sides, mind. One thing is the sarcasm that WonkWonk brung in his days of DMing, as I said earlier that just always seemed amusing to me. Another thing entirely is the endless list of snide remarks that one could no doubt make, from various DMs, that should've never been made unless the DMs in question were prepared to see it tossed back in their faces. Even though the only DM experience I've had was short lived and on a small, dying server, it didn't take long to realise how ungrateful a service it is to provide people. You'll have to listen to constant bullshit and horrible daft questions, and that shit sucks, but you're chosen for the position because you were, and hopefully are believed to be able to handle it. When someone is no longer able to handle it, they should be called out on it. It doesn't matter how horribly bitchy, whiney and annoying we the playerbase can be, 'cause you can be damn sure that we'll be called out. Hell, we'll get punished looong before any DM would, as has been evident for ages. With all that said, I'll echo what I hinted in the beginning. I don't see a problem with the DM team as a whole. The balance of it, mentalitywise, seems good. You have different tempers, different oppinions on various things (some things need overall clarification, though, but that's a given in all kinds of team) and players fairly easily learns who they work best with if they have an idea for something they'd like to do. You honestly do a great job at DMing. But this thread isn't about DMing, it's about forum behaviour.
_________________
Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko
Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale
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Khylaria
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 10:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 May 2007
Location: East Coast, US
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It's not just Mahtan that's getting tired of things, by the way. I've actually been tempted a few times to just wash my hands and walk away from Amia, because it gets so damned disheartening at times seeing the way people treat each other here. I guess it's a good thing I consider myself to be an optimist, because otherwise....yeah. I would have given up long ago.
One of the things I get tired of seeing over and over and over and over again is not just the blatant baiting that goes on, but the fact that sooooo many of you jump to the bait and/or help things to escalate. How hard can it be to just take a deep breath and move on? I've done it on a few occassions, myself.
I particularly can't stand the way that some of you out there seem to have nothing better to do on these forums than to add fuel to flames already burning. One of the reasons I'm so damned quiet on these forums is because I don't want to subject myself to the same treatment as the ones who are on the receiving end most of the time. I'm not confrontational by nature. I don't like having to get in people's faces to tell them they need to stop being jackasses because I'd rather they realize it themselves. That rarely happens here.
So you get the more vocal members of the DM team having to repeat themselves over and over, which frustrates them to no end, mind you. So yes, their frustration and stress sometimes comes across in a bad way in their posting, as well. Does that make it right? No. Does it entitle you to respond in a like manner? No. Could it possibly be that you're reading tones into their written words that weren't intended to be there by the one who wrote them? Yes. Other times, no, they're saying it with the exact tone you perceive because, for some of you, it's just the same things over and over and over.
Now, touching on the tones of individuals posts - it's my personal opinion that the majority of people who post in these forums (that includes everyone, I'm not singling out any particular group) just don't seem to think about how the way they post could come across to other readers/posters. What one person writes as a simple comment intended to be taken in jest, another finds offense in. What one writes as a serious concern is seen as whining or complaining by another, who then derides them and tells them to get over it, or grow up, or countless other phrases meant to be derogatory. Baiting and flaming ensue.
It needs to stop, on all sides. Until we, as a forum community, can grow the fuck up and stop pointing fingers at everyone else, instead of looking to our own flaws, no one is going to win here.
Also, I was going to write a lot more than this, but I don't feel this is the right thread in which to vent my own frustrations. Instead, I'll end with this little tidbit, having to do with all the finger-pointing and blaming of DM's for various woes and sorrows: If you have a problem with a DM, don't blame the entire DM team, and don't just let the issue(s) fester and boil over to the point that there's no possible way to solve it. Take your issues to the one in question, and if you still get nowhere, take it to another DM or neutral party to mediate. We keep stressing this, and stressing it, and stressing it, but rarely, if ever, does it happen because it's never brought to our attention.
[/ rambling rant]
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 11:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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In all fairness, I think you're reading way too much into the majority of posts here. There are a few certain people who have a bone to pick with the team or are just paranoid. I think most players see that too and know to take it for what it is. I don't see many comments about the team as a whole or its DMing. There's just poorly formulated opinions made my people who aren't masters of communication. You've every right to your feelings, whether you're tired or frustrated or something else, but I don't think it's fair to guilt-trip the playerbase for that any more than we would be right to berate all of you as persons and a team just because we don't like certain actions.
That said, you have the authority. And that authority is not contingent on your own conduct. Even if a forum moderator breaks the forum rules occasionally, he still has absolute authority in enforcing them and nobody can use that as an excuse to evade punishment. Yours is the authority of the office and the authority of the Forum Code of Conduct, not a personal trait. That's why I don't think this topic is going anywhere: the issue is acknowleged. It has been acknowledged for years. The DM team scolded its own, myself included, whenever someone saw a need. All the steps have been taken and probably are being taken. You expect us to follow the rules and you've promised to work on it yourself. Not because you have to or because your authority depends on it, but because you choose to. And that's that, really.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 11:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Dakotaen wrote: Another thing entirely is the endless list of snide remarks that one could no doubt make, from various DMs, that should've never been made unless the DMs in question were prepared to see it tossed back in their faces. But this thread isn't about DMing, it's about forum behaviour. Lally and Khy, these are forum mods who I think have shown exemplary conduct. I have only seen them to be polite and diplomatic in their responses. I do not recall ever seeing them bait, flame, gloat or be nasty to players. I would also like to mention Uce, one of our mechanics encyclopaedias, for exemplary behaviour as a learned being. He probably answers alot of the same mechanics related questions over and over, but I do not see him speak with a l33ter than thou attitude. _________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 11:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I don't think it's helpful to compare individual moderators here, even in a positive light. I hate to echo the doctrine of the rules because I'm so cool and rebellious, but they do state that issues with specific cases can and should be brought to the team. As a player, I have been on both the reporting and receiving end of scolding in relation to moderators. As a moderator, I've received and read reports about myself and others both on DM forums and in my own PM box. It really does work much better than any of this, and I've always been glad that those issues were resolved efficently through official channels rather than public compaints.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 11:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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IronAngel wrote: I don't think it's helpful to compare individual moderators here, even in a positive light. I think it does because this topic is also about good forum behaviour and moderators setting good examples. Yossarin wrote: I feel that we have something to prove, and it is that we ought to be leading by example.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 13:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Fair enough. In that case I'd like to mention Yossarin's posts, which are virtually never out of line or rude. I don't understand why some people seem to think so. His blend of sincerity and show is not only delightful but also open to honest response. He rarely makes any assertions about other people but lets them confirm or refute whatever hidden assumptions he might have with their own response.
The above only goes to show that people have different tastes and different interpretations about forum posting. Hells, even I've been told I'm interpreted as inappropriate, insulting or inflammatory when I go out of my way to never be such. I don't think it's important to put people in order based on how good moderators or forum posters they are. What's important is that everyone feels fairly treated and that the same rules and expectations apply to all posters equally. As I said earlier, I have issues with neither the DMs nor other posters. I wasn't enthusiastic about any stricter forum moderation policies in the first place, and I haven't changed my mind.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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762
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 14:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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I've never seen Yoss lose it either, so I'm not sure what that complaint is about.
_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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corypx
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 14:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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when I was in highschool in class we had kids who would actup cause problems and over all make it so kids could not do thier work.
teacher tryed sending them to the hall, so they harassed people out there, tryed sending them to the office and they would send them back because they needed to get work done and did not need him there bugging them, teacher tryed to phone home but they did not care, threatened to fail him but still nothing.
but she could not yell,be rude or anything as it would reflect poor on the school and lawsuit, so nothing got done and others had to suffer......till I turned around and beat the shit out of the kid and said everyone who causes a problem in the class would get a smack upside the head.
so when a kid would get out of hand the teacher would come up with a reason to leave the class room and I would put them in thier place.
and you may think what does this have to do with forum behavior, well sometimes the DMs need to give the person a smack upside the head, and if one does it more then the others they are acting as the lightning rod so the others dont have to take the hit from the player who is mad, because being nice only gets you so far, and this is the internet so being nice is even more useless then in the real world in some cases.
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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Yossarin
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 14:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Nice of you to say so, Iron, but now I have this sinking fear Prescia is going to find evidence of my sins somewhere...! I'll go ahead and give a preemptive, "Well, maybe I could have said that better."
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corypx
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 14:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Yossarin wrote: I have this sinking fear Prescia is going to find evidence of my sins somewhere...! like that screenshot of the shout of you looking for a "black fag" the "L"key ruined you _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 14:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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corypx wrote: Yossarin wrote: I have this sinking fear Prescia is going to find evidence of my sins somewhere...! like that screenshot of the shout of you looking for a "black fag" the "L"key ruined you Haha I remember that one, but I didn't take a screenie. But what Gurth said: Quote: I've never seen Yoss lose it either, so I'm not sure what that complaint is about.
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 15:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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Personally, I've never had an issue with how Tormak (aka Emo Elitist Tordek  ) or Yoss or Brainsplitter handle things. They're blunt and to the point. I like it. I don't need to have my hand held all the time. The issues I have aren't really about "Forum Behavior", so I'll save them for another topic.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Kudark
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 17:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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I don't mind if they smack me upside the head, as long as they hold my hand too.  _________________ 
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Estara
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 17:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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My biggest question for you, Prescia... is how would you like to punish Tormak or Ron better? Hmm? I see your complaints and I raise you some more stalking effort on your part. Go stalk away and come back with some ideas.
Would you want to demote him from his role? Because I think you'd see how fast the server sinks after that. He does, and has continually, so much more (I'll call it) "busywork" than many of the other DMs. Be it requesting, lore and build questions, what's possible and what's not mechanically, even dealing with DM issues while he's playerside because he's a fast typer and doesn't mind!
I'm tired of the complaining. Bah! He's gone on breaks before, taken hiatuses, and talked to lots of people! He has a tendency to be blunt (and I think funny), but he's tried his best to cull it and I want him to be given the respect for those efforts that he deserves. And the respect for the other efforts he does that you don't even know about, too!
What I wonder is if there's going to start being complaints about why I defend the DM Team so much as a player. How do I know Tormak does so much? What secret services am I getting from them?!
Oh, maybe I'll just tell you... Yoss and Tormak go out with me to gay bars and buy me free drinks all night every other week! Be jealous!
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Estara
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 18:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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And I want to state, coming back, before you even respond... I'm not serious with that question. Please don't post some serious ways of how you could punish Tormak better for his supposed mistakes. It's a sarcastic question. How does complaining on some public forum really help you at all? Because if you do have advice on how to do it better, you could just say it to him. Or to Nekhy. Or Lally, and Lally'll take it to them. Because if those people don't disappoint you forum-wise, they shouldn't disappoint you when approaching Tormak either.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 18:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Yossarin wrote: Nice of you to say so, Iron, but now I have this sinking fear Prescia is going to find evidence of my sins somewhere...! I'll go ahead and give a preemptive, "Well, maybe I could have said that better." I used you inconsiderately as a means to an end, which was to make an educational point. Only now does it occur to me that by fondling your ego I've done you a great disservice! I'll try to make this up to you. I can start by saying that sometimes you can be an infuriating martyr.  _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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The Cobbit
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 19:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Location: Satellite Of Love
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Don't the DMs get punished enough, having to put up with a server/forum full of us gits all the time?
_________________
I have a large seashell collection which I keep scattered on the beaches all over the world. Maybe you've seen it.
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ticket
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 19:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Oops! In hindsight, maybe I was too naive in naming Tormak. Sorry. Estara wrote: I'm tired of the complaining. Bah! He's gone on breaks before, taken hiatuses, and talked to lots of people! He has a tendency to be blunt (and I think funny), but he's tried his best to cull it and I want him to be given the respect for those efforts that he deserves. And the respect for the other efforts he does that you don't even know about, too! Irrelevant. If Tormak wasn't a DM I would have zero complaints on the way he conducts himself in the forum. He's a DM; they are held to a higher standard. I'm calling him out so that he can better lead the change to a more respectful forum. That's the whole point of this thread wasn't it? Yossarin wrote: Show your fellow users some respect. It is very easy to get caught in the trap of, "Well, I don't have any respect for that person for this reason." If you don't respect a person, don't let that turn into breaking general forum conduct. Handle it maturely and responsibly.
But let us, the DMs, make a concerted effort at it first. Though you may disagree, I feel that we have something to prove, and it is that we ought to be leading by example. Take it easy Estara, there's no need to defend the DMs. We know DMs get a lot of crap but it doesn't matter one bit because it's not an excuse for poor forum behavior. This isn't about their DM-ability nor their parenting skills. It's about forum conduct. Edit: Oh and for the record I think all the DMs here are great. Tormak especially, because in my view he has done the most for Amia; next to Disco at least.
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hendrack
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 19:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Could have used PMs as well instead of topic bumping and following with discussion of specific DMs. I mean, if I had to read two pages of discussion, obviously referring to me, (like talking about someone in third person standing right next to you), it'd leave a coppery aftertaste in my mouth. In conflict resolution, you talk to someone eye to eye, first, if that doesn't help, you go one level higher. Nekh is the head DM and responsible for this kind of stuff. We as players may raise our concerns if we feel we are treated badly ingame or in forum topics, but this open discussion of how DMs should set examples and act is not constructive and is a bad form of cummunication.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 20:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: I mean, if I had to read two pages of discussion, obviously referring to me, (like talking about someone in third person standing right next to you), it'd leave a coppery aftertaste in my mouth. I'm used to it.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yossarin
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 20:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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IronAngel wrote: Yossarin wrote: Nice of you to say so, Iron, but now I have this sinking fear Prescia is going to find evidence of my sins somewhere...! I'll go ahead and give a preemptive, "Well, maybe I could have said that better." I used you inconsiderately as a means to an end, which was to make an educational point. Only now does it occur to me that by fondling your ego I've done you a great disservice! I'll try to make this up to you. I can start by saying that sometimes you can be an infuriating martyr. Amen to that.
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 23:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Estara wrote: My biggest question for you, Prescia... is how would you like to punish Tormak or Ron better? 1. Why does there have to be punishment? Is it because you believe leopards can't change their spots? 2. Why have you brought up Ron, who is retired? No need to use my hand to take potshots at him? I believe people can change. ticket wrote: Irrelevant. If Tormak wasn't a DM I would have zero complaints on the way he conducts himself in the forum. He's a DM; they are held to a higher standard. I'm calling him out so that he can better lead the change to a more respectful forum. That's the whole point of this thread wasn't it? Moderators moderate the users. who moderates the moderators when they aren't being moderate?
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Logicality
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 23:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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Considering that they do a bit more than moderate, I'd say that, with the exception of unacceptable behaviour that is chronic and/or outstandingly terrible, they don't need to be moderated. It's strange that you're more forgiving of players when DMs and devs are tasked with a lot more.
Yes, they should strive for exemplary behaviour relative to the rest of the server's population, as clearly stated in the original post. They should be trying to set an example. But we all know what example that's supposed to be, and calling them out on past instances of less-than-amicable words is not in the spirit of that example.
I wonder if it would be best for us all to strive to be exemplary to each other. There's a thought...
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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Estara
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 23:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Well, I'm not that heated. I'm sorry it came off that way. I just didn't think the incessant repetition of complaining was doing anything. Not that my incessant comebacking did or is doing much either. I'll stop after this. Dramatic_Prince wrote: Estara wrote: My biggest question for you, Prescia... is how would you like to punish Tormak or Ron better? 1. Why does there have to be punishment? Is it because you believe leopards can't change their spots? 2. Why have you brought up Ron, who is retired? No need to use my hand to take potshots at him? I believe people can change. 1. I don't want or need anyone to change. Punishment can bring about change, so I assumed you wanted to use it based upon your quoting tactics. And if you don't desire any punishment, then what is the public bitching for? For peaceful change? I don't know if I can believe that from your methods... peaceful change is, as has been repeatedly said, usually done face-to-face. Works best. Public comments do not provide the best peaceful change. 2. You take potshots enough yourself. I was in no way attempting to do it for you.
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Dwagin
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Posted: Tue, Nov 02 2010, 23:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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TormakSaber wrote: Quote: I mean, if I had to read two pages of discussion, obviously referring to me, (like talking about someone in third person standing right next to you), it'd leave a coppery aftertaste in my mouth. I'm used to it. VAMPIRE! (Pale, doesn't breathe.. use to coppery tastes in his mouth. So so is.) Yossarin wrote: IronAngel wrote: Yossarin wrote: Nice of you to say so, Iron, but now I have this sinking fear Prescia is going to find evidence of my sins somewhere...! I'll go ahead and give a preemptive, "Well, maybe I could have said that better." I used you inconsiderately as a means to an end, which was to make an educational point. Only now does it occur to me that by fondling your ego I've done you a great disservice! I'll try to make this up to you. I can start by saying that sometimes you can be an infuriating martyr. Amen to that. Or infatuating martyr. While we're on the topic of stalking and all.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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