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BrainSplitter
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 Posted: Fri, Oct 29 2010, 0:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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To be fair, there aren't good examples being set. That said, I'll behave. I crossed the line in that thread.
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Mostly Retired
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Yossarin
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 8:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Admission doesn't absolve you from poor behavior, but you do have a point that good examples aren't being set. I don't want to have to start taking everybody down, including myself, just to make a point.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 8:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Poor behaviour is poor behaviour. You screw up, you screw up. It's the danger of it becoming a common behavioural trait that I'm concerned about. I'd wager every single forum user's stepped over the line a few times.
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Mostly Retired
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Dakotaen
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 8:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Location: Denmark
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As long as some of the most prominent DM figures are allowed to act like utter douchebags (yes offense), it isn't fair to expect any of the players to behave. Isn't fait to punish them, either.
_________________
Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko
Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale
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Estara
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 15:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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I don't agree with that, Dako. That's like saying a parent can never punish their children if they mess up in life. It's just that the parent also has to be self-aware enough to let the children know it's mistakes they made as well. And also, attempt to punish themselves if they keep doing it. And I've seen a few DMs get punished before.
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Dwagin
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 15:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Do keep in mind everyone has different levels of what they would consider too far.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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762
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 15:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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Estara wrote: I don't agree with that, Dako. That's like saying a parent can never punish their children if they mess up in life. It's just that the parent also has to be self-aware enough to let the children know it's mistakes they made as well. And also, attempt to punish themselves if they keep doing it. And I've seen a few DMs get punished before. "Do as I say, not as I do" doesn't work in any setting. Anyone who's ever run an online board knows the admins and mods set the posting tone for the forums. People by and large, either consciously or subconsciously post in the same tone, be it sincere and respectful, passive-aggressive or blatantly hostile.
_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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Estara
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 16:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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AlphaWaves
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 17:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: I'm pretty lost but I don't wanna be found.
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Estara wrote: I don't agree with that, Dako. That's like saying a parent can never punish their children if they mess up in life. It's just that the parent also has to be self-aware enough to let the children know it's mistakes they made as well. And also, attempt to punish themselves if they keep doing it. And I've seen a few DMs get punished before. DMs are not parents. They're not even real authority figures. They're players like everyone else. Of course they also get to moderate us all, and really Dako's right. If they've got the ability to ban us for behaviour they themselves show, are they really the players we want moderating us? DM doesn't mean you're a good role player, it doesn't mean they're even a good person. That's not to say that DMs are bad people just because they are DMs. They're as diverse as all the other players in their behaviours, opinions and quirks. But if a DM is a hypocrite for telling someone off for behaviour they themselves show then that's where things get pretty shitty. Who moderates the moderators? We all do in a certain respect, but the problem is we haven't the means to enforce in the same way the 'super'players (DMs) have for being a DM. Anyway, I'll end there. My point is in there somewhere, but it's lost in my stream of consciousness if anyone cares to put this through a sieve. Tata  _________________ "The householder's disdain for the vagabond hides a hint of jealousy."
~ A hin proverb
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boobookittyscrew
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 17:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Oct 2010
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IMHO there's always a trigger that sets it off....sometimes by a rude player, sometimes a rude DM. But in every instance the trigger causes it to snowball into something disasterous.
If the forum moderators could nip the initial trigger in the bud, then it wouldn't be so bad.
Usually the trigger can be easily found...if you read the threads backwards from the last worse post.
Alot of the time it contains several things, either cursing, sarcasm(which never helps), and sorry to say but the words "I take offense to (insert reason here)"
I admit I myself have gotten upset because all the posts about the balance changes that screamed "I want my way!"
In the case of DMs I sense more of a frustration than an actual wish to offend people.
My advice to DMs would be to take deep breaths and actually try to avoid voicing your frustrations...which I imagine can be tough.
As for players, the same can be said with addendums...particularly coming on with the opinion you are better than the DMs and other players, or the opinion that the DMs should somehow serve you.
Oh..one more thing....it would probably be best if the DMs actually openly voiced problematic stuff rather than give the "And you know what we're talking about." because no one else knows what you're talking about and in the end it just looks bad on you.
A prime example of that is in the request section where the DMs voice some serious frustrations against Taliazalin(something or other) for his(her) post about a summon reskin.
At first glance it made the DMs look bad....until you scroll down the threads and notice every other request is this same player.
Sometimes it helps to give everyone else an idea of what you go through by letting the public know, instead of keeping it amongst only DMs, because no one should really believe their bad behaviors can be kept private.
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Kudark
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 17:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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I would think the DM's moderate each other, along with the player input.
Also, the DM base isn't a solid thing like the Supreme Court, there are DM's coming and going, which give fresh ideas and styles a chance to flourish.
I do agree that the Moderators set the tone for the forums, and I'm not saying they should be all happy smiley all the time, but brutal bluntness on a continual basis will only lead to the same from the player base. I'm not saying they are brutal bluntness all the time either, but I do see a lot of it.
On a side note, I also see many postings that require brutal bluntness from the DM's as well.
(Wizard's First Rule)
_________________ 
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Estara
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 17:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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AlphaWaves wrote: Estara wrote: I don't agree with that, Dako. That's like saying a parent can never punish their children if they mess up in life. It's just that the parent also has to be self-aware enough to let the children know it's mistakes they made as well. And also, attempt to punish themselves if they keep doing it. And I've seen a few DMs get punished before. DMs are not parents. They're not even real authority figures. They're players like everyone else. Agree to disagree!
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Grymia
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 18:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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I have to disagree, in that DMs are entrusted by the server's owners to handle any matters of breach of rules. However, in that , they should strive to be the examplar, not the exemption.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 21:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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It's not a simple thing. In practice, a DM has no authority above him other than the Head DM, and that role hasn't been actively exercised in years. I can assure you, it's not just Yossarin pushing his own agenda here, the entire team is aware of the expectations they face. But there's only so much you can do to stop someone's behavior if they don't see it as inappropriate or it's a persistent habit, and you aren't willing to force a confrontation. Losing a good DM over bad forum conduct seems like a poor deal to make. What else could be done? Ban an active DM from the forums? That'd be practical. I'm neither defending nor condemning the DMs. It's just the ugly reality of compromise. Personally, I'd rather have a bit of unfairness and hypocrisy than complete lack of control and rampant flamewars. Easy for me to say, not having to take the role of the hypocrite, though.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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ticket
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 0:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Elephant in the room. Obviously not all the DMs, not even the majority of them, are setting bad examples - hell only two thirds of them are even active and even less so in the forums - so why not just name here the DM(s) who are crossing the line?
There's no need to bash or ban them, because like Iron said it's not practical. Simply reminding them that they've been acting inappropriately ought to be enough. I trust them to evaluate their forum behavior properly when they're requested by players to do so.
In my opinion, Tormak is the only one with the forum problem among the DM team these past few months. I personally wish you would stop insulting the players.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 0:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I wish players would stop obviously baiting me with references to months an dyears old events in an attempt to elicit a response from me, or making veiled comments that are very clearly directed at me but just vague enough to where they can justify them as "I'm just joknig!" or "I didn't mean HIM", if I get upset and bring it to Nekh.
(does not apply to previous post. If you can make requests, certaily I am allowed to as well?)
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ticket
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 0:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Sure, seems fair. Those vague references to past specific events causes most of the thread locks anyways and I hope we players stop with the baiting too.
IMO mods can delete such posts, if they do crop up, and bring it to PMs. No need to air out the dirty laundries in public. Nip it at the bud as boobookittyscrew says.
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Jes
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 0:21 AM |
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DM
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole
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That's my main problem, I guess. Dirty laundry. I don't want to see it, and I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way. If two people have a problem and they're two players, their argument is to be taken to PMs, as per DMs' words. But that is the case for all of us here, DM and Player alike. I would rather problems that DMs have with players or other DMs not be aired on the forums where anyone can see them. Leave it in PMs and discussions elsewhere, I say. =/
_________________ Login: The Copper Queen
Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym
Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant
Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] The Voice
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 0:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Removal, not Rebuttal, TYVM.
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Mostly Retired
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ainjyll
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 0:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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Often times short answers are misconstrued for snippy, snide, rude or otherwise malignant remarks. Well, DM's have to sift through this whole damn site (including the faction only boards) and answer tons of questions, along with their PM's and then, if they get done with that, find a few minutes to jump IG and do some of the fun stuff.
Cut the poor guys (and gals!) a break. Being blatantly flaming or rude is way different and in my mind irresponsible. But, short concise answers should never be looked down on. Like many people have said, if you didn't like my answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.
That said, I believe this is one of those topics that should have been tucked away forever ago. Lead by example. If there's no fuel, there's no flame. Ignore the bait and move on. If nobody bites on the troll's bait, then they'll either change their ways or move on to somewhere else.
_________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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Estara
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 0:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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I'm just saying that I think DMing here -is- like parenting. I'm not saying that anyone is doing a good or a bad job of it. If you want my opinion on specific DMs, ask. But I'd just like to say that the amount of ridiculousness that the DMs have to put up with could perhaps even be worse than parenting teenagers. In fact, probably a good chunk of the playerbase ARE teenagers. 
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 2:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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DMing is certainly very reminiscent of taking care of significantly younger family members.
"Please don't do that"
"PLEASE don't do that"
"Don't -do- that!"
"..."
"Ok, fine, you did it. No dessert"
"..."
"Please stop crying and calm down"
"..."
"Sigh"
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Mostly Retired
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762
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 3:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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...how does this help?
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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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Estara
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 7:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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By pointing out that you're wrong.
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Dakotaen
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 10:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Location: Denmark
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He isn't wrong, though. Moderating/DMing and parenting is not the the same, you can see that, not only in how players respond when they do behave but also in how DMs respond when they don't behave. Ron has a tendency of being a complete ass on the forums, sometimes even in-game, but mostly he's got something about him that makes me laugh it off, because he's humorous. Yossarin can be a right bastard as well, but he's got some odd authority over him, at least in my oppinion. Tormak has an air of authority over him as well, but he's just too much of an asshole so often that I personally have a hard time not just telling him to go stuff it up the black hole that must be his soulhiding anus. (<-- Note: I actually did try adding a humorous tone there, but it may sound horrible anyway.) Those three fellas are the prime examples, in my mind, of "when DMs break their own forum rules." They also happen to be three of the best DMs I've had the fun of playing under in plots both large and small. Does that give them the right to act like children with an extensive vocabulary? Not at all, and hell yes should they be punished when they do. It may not be worth stripping them of their DMness, I won't bother pouring on my oppinion on that matter 'cause I think I may have spilled enough fuel here already, but something certainly does need to happen to them when they cross the line, just as players who cross it needs to get some sort of slap over the wrist. Oh, and I know other DMs do it as well, but really, no one does it quite as good or quite as often as those three. 
_________________
Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko
Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 11:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Oye! At least use me in the past tense. I haven't been a DM for months; been too busy training.
I love you too, though. <3.
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Mostly Retired
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My Sovereign
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 13:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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BrainSplitter wrote: DMing is certainly very reminiscent of taking care of significantly younger family members.
"Please don't do that"
"PLEASE don't do that"
"Don't -do- that!"
"..."
"Ok, fine, you did it. No dessert"
"..."
"Please stop crying and calm down"
"..."
"Sigh" Yes that, all of it, just....just so that
_________________
- "The fiend is less hideous in his own shape....then when he rages in the breast of man"
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Didi
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 13:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Location: UK - GMT
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Except sometimes its a very fractious parent with a short temper and the neighbours have to call in social services  _________________ 
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Didi
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 14:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Location: UK - GMT
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I am rather disappointed by DMs unlocking threads to place comments disparaging the playerbase. Machiavelli, I refer you to my thread in the Qos forums which I hope sheds light on your treatment. I feel that a semi private forum is much better place to hold such a discussion than a locked thread in which no-one can respond to your very one sided statement.
[edit] Sorry, that comes off as way too condescending. I AM disappointed by DMs showing their lack of faith in big groups of players on the forums. Its my pet peeve. I think that by talking about groups being antagonistic, you make them more antagonistic, and its a really bad trap to fall into. Then I just fell into it, so sorry. That said, get your ass over to the Qos forums, Mach, because I -do- think you got a bum deal for your good intentions.
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Lally
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 15:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.
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Both of this that posted were typing mid my post. You can post in locked threads now as a dm and they had not seen I locked it.
_________________
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 15:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Haha, that post barely makes sense. (Except now that you edited it in the middle of my posting!)
You've always been able to post in locked threads as a moderator, btw, and you might not notice they're locked even when it doesn't happen mid-post. But yes, I do think that you should generally post nothing but the explanation for the lock when you close a topic. Getting the last word in is bad taste, if rarely malicious.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Lally
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 15:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.
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yeah thats what I get for posting from my smartphone with it's handy smart text. >.<
_________________
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.
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Didi
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 15:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Location: UK - GMT
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That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
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Yossarin
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 15:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Yes, both Tormak and Mahtan posted before they even knew it was locked. I'm just going to guess Mach didn't even know it was locked when looking at the thread and posted anyway.
I posted in the long changes post-lock re: Mago only because so many people were surprised at his extreme behavior and it needed some addressing. Any necessary reprisal can come in my PM box because it was my decision, though I doubt there is any.
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Estara
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 16:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Oh but you and Gurth are both so wrong, Dako. You can't be a good parent unless you try to teach your kids to do things ways that you didn't. Do as I say and not as I do is a great way to parent a child, as long as you admit to the child that that is what it is. It is never wrong to say: "Look at how I fucked up-- do better."
And that's how DMing can be, too: "Hey, sorry that I was a huge ass on the forums. But that doesn't mean you should be, either, because see how much it doesn't help?"
The only argument you have is that the DMs can't get AS mad at players because it comes across as superbly hypocritical. But that's not a bad parenting or moderating style. It's fucking life.
Also, hypocritical and wrong aren't the same thing.
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Estara
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 16:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Not to mention that I don't think I've ever crossed the forum lines except maybe one time in a shmevul drow topic mostly on accident. So I'm totally a living breathing example of being better than Ron, Yoss and Tormak! Such good parents they are!
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hendrack
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 16:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Real life comparisons about educating little brats doesn't work with internetz forums.
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762
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 17:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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IronAngel wrote: You've always been able to post in locked threads as a moderator, btw, and you might not notice they're locked even when it doesn't happen mid-post. But yes, I do think that you should generally post nothing but the explanation for the lock when you close a topic. Getting the last word in is bad taste, if rarely malicious. This.
_________________
Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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Janna Ogder
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 19:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Sep 2010
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I've tried a hand at DMing a world, once. It was fun, for a bit and then as the player base got bigger and more and more personalities clashed, it seemed like all I was doing was breaking up flamewars and punishing people. I couldn't jump on as a player for more than five minutes without getting tells about situations that just came down to plain consideration and common courtesy. It did make me bitter for a time and I was probably one of the more hard-nosed dm's after a bit, until I threw in the towel.
So, I can understand being a DM, and how tempting it is to come out nasty on the forums. However, (I'm not claiming to be a saint, cos I am far from it) I did not, because I felt that it was my responsibility as a DM to present the face of an impartial referee. I think that if you as a dm are nasty to someone in the forum, you only open yourself up for future troubles regarding questions of your impartiality. Being impartial is hard, and not a skill everyone has, but if you do take pride in being DM, then you work to being the best DM you can be. If you can't, then just be a player, IMHO.
_________________
I hated hipsters before hating them was cool.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 19:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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The roles of a DM and a forum moderator are different. The former takes priority, though, so I don't think anyone should be turned down as a DM because they'd make bad moderators.
Estara: "Do as I say" works better than "do as I do" if you don't do very well, I can agree with that. We shouldn't give up "do as I say" just because the authority figure (forum moderator) can't always or even usually keep that same standard. But 762 is certainly right in that it harms the moderators' credibility, sets the tone of the forums and is less efficient than an environment where the moderators also set the example, not just the rules.
Personally, I'm not really bothered by the behavior on the forums, by either DMs or players. As long as I can call the moderators out for whatever BS they may spew, I'm content with them spewing said BS. I mean, the fact that we have a topic like this where we can freely point fingers and berate the DMs, warranted or not, speaks highly of their transparency. A little conflict gets the adrenaline pumping!
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dakotaen
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 19:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Location: Denmark
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Estara wrote: Oh but you and Gurth are both so wrong, Dako. Nope, I'm always right. Quote: You can't be a good parent unless you try to teach your kids to do things ways that you didn't. Do as I say and not as I do is a great way to parent a child, as long as you admit to the child that that is what it is. It is never wrong to say: "Look at how I [removed] up-- do better." I agree, though I think it's fairly unhealthy to try your best to make sure that the child never fucks up. They have to learn on their own as well as learn from you. Quote: And that's how DMing can be, too: "Hey, sorry that I was a huge ass on the forums. But that doesn't mean you should be, either, because see how much it doesn't help?" DMs aren't parents, though, and since that "sorry" so very, very, VERY rarely comes, it's a moot point. Quote: The only argument you have is that the DMs can't get AS mad at players because it comes across as superbly hypocritical. But that's not a bad parenting or moderating style. It's [removed] life. I don't think I ever said that, did I? They can get just as mad as players can, they can be just as immature as players can, they can bait and flame as much as us, but they certainly have to get the same punishment as we do. Or worse, even, since they, to some extent do need to set the examples that we follow. When it comes to behaviour, at least. Quote: Also, hypocritical and wrong aren't the same thing. Again, don't think I ever said it was.
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Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko
Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale
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Estara
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 20:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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I like being a player. I'm going to keep defending these DMs and enjoy not DMing!
Heheh. Well yes. The world of DMing could be a perfect and wonderful place of butterflies and honey if this were heaven and we were all Godlike beings. But we're not. So expecting that out of them is absolutely, utterly ridiculous. So they set the tone in a bad example? One-up them. Your arguments fall on my ears like the way a baby cries. "Life is unfair and it's their job to do this and not mine." It's not their job. It's done out of free will and they must enjoy suffering. DMing is like parenting, but WORSE! That's my point. They're parenting people they hardly even know in a way that it's 10x more difficult to even come up with a fitting punishment for things that people shouldn't even need to cheat over or spend 20 hours debating over because it's a flipping game. DMing is 100% better with a "Do as I say and not as I do" attitude because they get all these responsibilities placed upon them with very rarely much benefit.
I'll even defend DMs I don't like, I probably just won't play on their servers or join in many of their plots. There certainly are DMs I don't like. But I have yet to even bitch about one of them. Why? Because I can easily have fun without worrying about it. It's just not worth it. I love playing Amia, and I love most of the DMs. If you don't like 'em, you're crazy, and leave. Blah. Why fight for a place that seems so hopeless to you?
Oh and I totally don't think they should get punished as badly. Just that they should get punished a little. They go through so much more shit than players that if they finally relinquish a little forum anger and madness it's so much more understandable. Not that it means it's a good thing, but it's certainly more understandable than the reasons I see players lashing out.
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Dwagin
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 21:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.
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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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762
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Posted: Sun, Oct 31 2010, 21:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida
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It depends how prominent and embarrassing the flaw is. If people laugh at you and shun you for wearing such a glaringly bad diamond, it might be worth considering the pebble.
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Araxus Balmor
Gurth Balmor (retired)
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Yossarin
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 3:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Dako, darling, I may be an ornery bastard some of the time, but that bark is far worse than the bite. I'm shooting myself in the foot here, but a lot of it is staged for effect. If I go out of my way to be nice and helpful and cheerful, I am accused of favoritism. If I let it go too rough and tumble, I get called a bastard, but I can live with that more than the accusation of favoritism. If I play impartial referee, I'm a dirty fencesitter. So in the grand scheme of things, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't and so instead I've just adapted to supplying whatever honey or vinegar or indifference is necessary to the situation, sometimes going so far as to bait and switch on the tactics to illicit truths or confessions or admissions that would not otherwise have been revealed.
And other times I'm actually speaking my mind, which is not always pleasant, and is better expressed than ignored.
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Estara
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 3:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Told you it was worse than parenting.
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 3:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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ticket wrote: In my opinion, Tormak is the only one with the forum problem among the DM team these past few months. I personally wish you would stop insulting the players. TormakSaber wrote: I wish players would stop obviously baiting Stop taking the bait? Stop handing out bait of your own? Quote: There was never meant to be one "Best" rage. Stop being stupid, Svensk. Quote: Because there's none to make. Deal w/ it. *smugface* Quote: Getout.gif Quote: Your tears are delicious. Clerics literally complaining aobut being underpowered is probably the most hilarious thing that came from this update. Ever. Quote: LMAO You have no idea what balance is, your posts read like a jilted huntard in WoW.
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Logicality
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 3:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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There is a lot of maturity in this forum. Let's put it to good use and just... be nice. We're all here to have fun, and sometimes people slip up. Even the best of us sometimes make mistakes. We deal with it, we move on, we try to better ourselves. Calling people out rarely accomplishes anything. I would wager it actually tends to perpetuate the problems it attempts to address.
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"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 5:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Dramatic_Prince wrote: ticket wrote: In my opinion, Tormak is the only one with the forum problem among the DM team these past few months. I personally wish you would stop insulting the players. TormakSaber wrote: I wish players would stop obviously baiting Stop taking the bait? Stop handing out bait of your own? Quote: There was never meant to be one "Best" rage. Stop being stupid, Svensk. Quote: Because there's none to make. Deal w/ it. *smugface* Quote: Getout.gif Quote: Your tears are delicious. Clerics literally complaining aobut being underpowered is probably the most hilarious thing that came from this update. Ever. Quote: LMAO You have no idea what balance is, your posts read like a jilted huntard in WoW. Someone didn't see where I specifically said that those posts were made as a lampshading and parodying the extreme drama in the rest of that topic.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Nov 01 2010, 11:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I've got to agree with Tormak. I can't stand his forum presence (as a DM he's a nice guy, IMO), but that's because of his bullheadedness, inflexibility under the pressure of better arguments and being strongly opinionated before he even gets into the debate. It's worse because all these things are my pet peeves. He's my nemesis. However, in most of the above quotes I interpreted dry humor and maybe even a hint of self-irony. You don't emote *smugface* seriously. That said, I'm annoyed by the fact that in many topics like the ones those quotes are from, Tormak fails to deliver concise arguments, listen to counter-arguments and adapt his stance as appropriate. If you can't rationally defend your opinion, you don't deserve an opinion, IMO. Blunt one-liners are irrelevant in comparison.
He's hardly the only one guilty, though. I almost feel bad for ragging on him with good reason, when so many others do so for little reason.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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