AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mk. IV

Prolly, yeah. I went 12 INT with my paladin build, but Iron didn't seem so bothered about a big choice of skills. Seven epic feat choices gives a lot of flexibility.

10 Int nets me Discipline, Tumbe and Taunt, though. There's still Concentration, Heal and Lore that would all be cool, but I'm not sure if it's worth it?

And UMD.
I reckon it's best to tone down on the INT, though, unless you particularly want a skill, or for RP.

Yes well, I doubt I'm going to take Rogue, I'll just cross-class Tumble. It's not that it's cheesy, it's just unimaginative.

Well, personally, I don't think Concentration or Lore will be very useful. Heal, on the other hand, could be. Really depends on the character. If it were on a non-RP server, I wouldn't get it.
Also, and this is a bit off-topic, how does a Paladin RP taunts? I don't see a paladin getting people angry, especially not hardened evil-doers.

Considering a rebuild. Not that it will affect my decision, but does the BG eagle's splendour work as a feat and stack, or just like an extra casting?

Just like an extra casting.

No. Bg's eagles splendour stacks with potion.

Very_Svensk wrote:

To Jyro X; With Sincere Regards from Very_Svensk

You liked the 23/6/1; So this is what i came up with.

Paladin
Champion Of Torm(CoT)
Monk

(lvl)1 Paladin Feat; Wep Focus
(lvl)2 Paladin
(lvl)3 Paladin Feat; Power attack
(lvl)4 Paladin Ability Bonus Charisma
(lvl)5 Paladin
(lvl)6 Paladin Feat; Divine Shield
(lvl)7 Paladin
(lvl)8 Paladin Ability Bonus Strength
(lvl)9 Paladin Feat; Divine Might
(lvl)10 Paladin
(lvl)11 Paladin
(lvl)12 Paladin Ability Bonus Strength + Feat; Imp.Crit
(lvl)13 Paladin
(lvl)14 Paladin
(lvl)15 Paladin Feat; Extend spell
(lvl)16 Paladin Ability Bonus Strength
(lvl)17 Champion Of Torm(CoT)
(lvl)18 Champion Of Torm(CoT) Feat; Cleave + Extra Feat; Blind fight
(lvl)19 Champion Of Torm(CoT)
(lvl)20 Champion Of Torm(CoT) Ability Bonus Strength + Extra Feat; Great Cleave
(lvl)21 Paladin Feat; Great STR 1
(lvl)22 Paladin
(lvl)23 Paladin
(lvl)24 Paladin Ability Bonus Strength Feat; Great Charisma 1
(lvl)25 Paladin
(lvl)26 Paladin
(lvl)27 Paladin Feat; Great STR 2 + Extra Feat; Epic Wep.Focus
(lvl)28 Champion Of Torm(CoT) Ability Bonus Strength
(lvl)29 Monk
(lvl)30 Champion Of Torm(CoT) Feat; Overwhelming critical + Extra Feat; Devastating Critical

// Damn that is one COLOURFUL build!

Here you go, Iron. The Exact build i made to Jyro, But you gotta switch a few feats around and such, but you get an Overall Idea of how it looks.

Very_Svensk wrote:

No. Bg's eagles splendour stacks with potion.

Woah, since always?

KrautBoy wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

No. Bg's eagles splendour stacks with potion.

Woah, since always?

It doesn't stack.

Good to be proven wrong, Now i can pass on the truth next time!

Alright! It's time to end my indecisiveness! After reading the first 20 or so pages of this thread, I'm unsure of what build to choose for my Unseelie feyblood, but have narrowed it down!

23 Bard/6 Fighter

Rogue16/WM7/Ftr6

Or a dual-weilding, Devy Critting glass cannon for PvM fun!

Which should I settle with?

P.S.: Thanks for your help again, PaladinOfSune.

Edit: Basically I want to add a 'fighter-type' to my character pool because I only have casters and sneaks. I also want something fun to play. With both casters and sneaks leveling up (grinding) has always been a pain.

I would say some combination of the last two =D rouge/wm/fighter with dev, epic weapon specilization and focus, and epic superior focus...basically you will hit everything. make it dual wield, forget about epic dodge and focus on the strength, and well, you'll be laughing.

ed: could swap the rouge for blackguard or something else, fighter 6/wm 7 is a good base but don't get stuck trying to middle it out, go all out on the strength and AC or saves, and as much as i'd prefer not to do math right now, full plate is going to grab you more AC than your dex modifier in this case, so grab some.

just checked, epic superior weapon focus is a level 13 WM feat so...grab prowess instead.

last note, something I recommend for all melee builds, if possible grab improved power attack and expertise. =D

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I am personally a fan of:

16 Strength
8 Dexterity
10 Constitution
10 Intelligence
14 Wisdom
16 Charisma

Level up Charisma to 18, and rest in Strength, with one Great STR to make it 22. That way, you'll have a +10 score to your UMD, so you can put in 5 of the extra points you'll gain from the rogue level and have a 15 UMD score overall. You'll also have a base 30 Fortitude including buffed Charisma bonus, which is dead easy to get to 40.

If you want the tumble dump, 23 Paladin/6 CoT/1 Rogue. Otherwise, I still say 26 Paladin/4 CoT.

Thanks for the help, everyone. I think I'm going with this ability set-up without the Tumble-dump. Why 26/4 and not 24/6, though? Same number of feats, somewhat shorter buff duration, but +1 Saves and a sweet Divine Wrath for bosses and PvP.

Edit: I tried out 24/6. I have no idea how to spend all those damn epic feats. The only ones I have left by 30 (6th CoT) are Epic Toughness and Great Wisdom. If I took 26 Paladin instead, I'd have to pick Epic Reputation. >_> Dev. Crit is starting to look more alluring so I can put these feats to use. Or then I'll do that high Charisma smiter.

You don't go Dev Crit with the Rogue/WM/Fighter build that Rosen asked about - it's an Epic Dodge build. Quite a good one too! By the sounds of it, you'd probably enjoy that one the most, since you were looking for a sneaky damage dealer warrior hybrid. Take a finesse weapon like rapier, and go 16 Rogue/7 WM/6 Fighter, since you have +1 ECL.

IronAngel wrote:

Thanks for the help, everyone. I think I'm going with this ability set-up without the Tumble-dump. Why 26/4 and not 24/6, though? Same number of feats, somewhat shorter buff duration, but +1 Saves and a sweet Divine Wrath for bosses and PvP.

I prefer 26/4 over 24/6 because it gives +5 for Divine Favour and immunity to dispels. If you've got too many feats post-epic, perhaps you should take 2 CoT levels pre-epic. If you do that, it gives you seven epic feats. I suggest:

Epic Weapon Focus
Armor Skin
Epic Prowess
Great STR I
Epic Skill Focus: Discipline

Then you have two spare leftover. You could use them for RP, or take Great STR another two times, I suppose. (I still suggest a smiter to see the fun high damage numbers!)

Yeah, I tried the strength build but I didn't like it. Smiter it is. Can you repeat this for me, though: when does Divine Favor become +5? 25 or 26? I'm starting to lean towards going Aasimar, since I have a cool theme in mind now, and 25/4 would be a Smiter of the Aasimar variety.

On a pure human:

26/4 Paladin/CoT (20 Paladin pre-epic)

Str 14
Con 8
Dex 8
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 18 (26)

Weapon Focus
Improved Critical
Power Attack
Divine Might
Divine Shield
Extend Spell
Extra Smiting
Extra Turning
--
Epic Weapon Focus
Great Charisma I
Great Smiting I-VI

How does this sound? If I go Aasimar, I will start with 15 Strength and 20 Charisma instead (since I can drop 2 from Wisdom and put into Str), which means I don't need a Great Stat feat, leaving me at Great Smiting V.

So basically ending with the same Charisma on Aasimar means +2 Strength. +1 permanent AB and Damage. I won't be able to take it until 24 though, because I need 25 Charisma as soon as I hit epic to start collecting those Smites. What I lose from Aasimar is one Great Smite. Hum, do I also lose 1 BAB from missing out on 30? I think so so, and it looks like Aasimar is actually not worth it for a Great Smite paladin. Unless I forget the Strength increase and go for 28 Charisma, I guess.

maybe go aasimar and keep great smiting IV and pick up a toughness feat? IV and V are both going to kill what ever evil they hit.

Yeah, but that's less awesomely huge numbers.

IronAngel wrote:

Hum, do I also lose 1 BAB from missing out on 30?

You get your last BAB point at level 29. (21,23,25,27,29)

TormakSaber wrote:

Yeah, but that's less awesomely huge numbers.

What kind of numbers would Smite VI bring to the table, out of curiosity?

+(6xPaladin/CoT levels) damage. So, usually, about 174 or 180.

Quote:

Specifics: Whenever the character makes a successful smite attack, it adds two times the character's level to damage. This feat may be taken multiple times, up to a maximum of 10 times — each time adding additional damage equal to the character's level to the smite attack

Thats normal nwn... Changed on Amia perhaps? Wheres the 6 from?

IronAngel wrote:

<snip>

In terms of Aasimar versus Human for Smiter builds (plain human race anyway), Aasimar definitely comes out ahead. You gain the last Divine Favour bonus at 25 (10, 15, 20 and finally 25), 26 is just for the bonus feat. Lack of Blind-Fight on your pre-epic feats is depressing, though the rest are good.

With a +1 ECL, I'd actually advise 23/6. Take 2 CoT levels pre-epic for Blind-Fight, and do whatever you like. I'd be tempted to take out a Great Smite for Armor Skin, but that's just personal preference.

You could go Pally/cot/wm Scyther w/great smites for funny numbers in the thousands on a smite crit.

If you want nifty numbers... that is.

wereguy2 wrote:

+(6xPaladin/CoT levels) damage. So, usually, about 174 or 180.

So, you guys are willing to spend 6 epic feats (and to pump up CHA "beyond reason") to be able to do 180 extra damage 3 times pr. rest (if the smite succed)?
Seems a high price to me..

Zifon wrote:

wereguy2 wrote:

+(6xPaladin/CoT levels) damage. So, usually, about 174 or 180.

So, you guys are willing to spend 6 epic feats (and to pump up CHA "beyond reason") to be able to do 180 extra damage 3 times pr. rest (if the smite succed)?
Seems a high price to me..

Its more than just being able to pump out 180 extra damage, there is a Rp aspect about your character really being able to be -anti- evil. If you are playing a Paladin you really shouldn't be out there smiting other LG Pallies. There is a fun aspect of Rp it opens up... how my paladin preforms well in combat but when he really is fighting true evil that he is passionate about stopping, then his true "skills" come out.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Its more than just being able to pump out 180 extra damage, there is a Rp aspect about your character really being able to be -anti- evil. If you are playing a Paladin you really shouldn't be out there smiting other LG Pallies. There is a fun aspect of Rp it opens up... how my paladin preforms well in combat but when he really is fighting true evil that he is passionate about stopping, then his true "skills" come out.

You cant smite other LG'ers I think,,only evil enemies (hence the smite evil)
And I'm not really buying the RP aspect, I think most just want to get tells form their partymembers saying: "omfg a smite-crit, that was 588 dmg dude, your so cool".
Hmm,,do I sound like a grumphy old man now

Zifon wrote:

Maverick00053 wrote:

Its more than just being able to pump out 180 extra damage, there is a Rp aspect about your character really being able to be -anti- evil. If you are playing a Paladin you really shouldn't be out there smiting other LG Pallies. There is a fun aspect of Rp it opens up... how my paladin preforms well in combat but when he really is fighting true evil that he is passionate about stopping, then his true "skills" come out.

You cant smite other LG'ers I think,,only evil enemies (hence the smite evil)
And I'm not really buying the RP aspect, I think most just want to get tells form their partymembers saying: "omfg a smite-crit, that was 588 dmg dude, your so cool".
Hmm,,do I sound like a grumphy old man now

That is why I said you -shouldnt- be out there smiting other LG Pallies. Cause... it fails, and it makes no RP sense. >_<

You are allowed to think what you wish =) My Pally is setup to end with Great Smite 8 or 9, and not for the cool "Dude that was so awesome!" tells.

My set-up for my smiter was 19 Paladin 10 CoT 1 Ranger.

I hated it, although it was funny pulling the one shot LoH on the pirate and such.

If you want to go the super balanced chap Iron I do suggest

23 Paladin 6 CoT 1 Ranger if it fits your RP. Mine did given my chap was an Osirant, and the Lord of nature theme screamed for some ranger loving.

The one ranger is in epic, and thats why i'd suggest going 12 int. . .so you can take ranger at 30 and hit-up 33 spot and net that bonus ranger feat for epic weapon focus.

This is how Taur looked

Mulan
Pre-epic: Blindfight, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Might, Shield, KD, IKD, Improved Critical

Epic: Epic Fort, Epic Spot, Epic Discipline, Called Shot
Paladin Bonus: Armorskin
Ranger Bonus: Epic weapon focus
CoT: Disarm, Improved Disarm, Epic Prowess

That said i ended up shifting the build around a bit to a 23 Paladin 4 Fighter 3 Rogue just for giggles and because CoT wouldn't have worked with the PrC ambition for the character.

Quote:

So, you guys are willing to spend 6 epic feats (and to pump up CHA "beyond reason") to be able to do 180 extra damage 3 times pr. rest (if the smite succed)?
Seems a high price to me..

Firstly its CLx12 not x6.. So its alot of extra damage! And secondly.. Have a character that is decent in pvm (paladins are..) and great in pvp vs evil, is awesome RP wise. They are a baston of good, a beacon of light and hope against the most powerful and evilist creatures.

Great smites are AWESOME rp wise. You dont need a PC that is TN and good vs everything in order for it to be worth while making..

Palemaster wrote:

Great smites are AWESOME rp wise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX_jsbdfc6Y

Palemaster wrote:

You could go Pally/cot/wm Scyther w/great smites for funny numbers in the thousands on a smite crit.

That build is realllly hard to pull off.

Also, it is 6x; "This feat may be taken multiple times, up to a maximum of 10 times — each time adding additional damage equal to the character's level to the smite attack."

Dont know why I was reading that earlier and thinking it was double the characters CL. Must have been having a serious age momment haha

There was a screenie of a smite on amia doing 1000s in the off topic thread. Dont think it was a WM however. Too many requirements for WM.

Zifon wrote:

wereguy2 wrote:

+(6xPaladin/CoT levels) damage. So, usually, about 174 or 180.

So, you guys are willing to spend 6 epic feats (and to pump up CHA "beyond reason") to be able to do 180 extra damage 3 times pr. rest (if the smite succed)?
Seems a high price to me..

Well, I add my Charisma modifier to Divine Might and Shield damage, AC and duration, as well as saves and CoT Divine Wrath duration. It's not a bad deal.

I'll take Mosh's suggestion under advisement, too. What kind of stats are we looking at? That's the hardest part for me to figure out, and unfortunately the part that's relevant immediately at character creation. I have 30 levels to decide if I want a ranger or a monk level anyway, so I can do what feels right by then.

If I went balanced with an Aasimar, I guess S16/D8/C10/I14/W14/C17 would be a smart start, going to 18 Charisma and 22 Strength. I really don't know what I want, though, so I might ditch the whole PC. :evil:

Spamming...

I think I'll go for the Smiter anyway.

Aasimar
23/6 (18/2 pre-epic)

Str 15 (16)
Dex 8
Con 8
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 20 (26)

WF: Warhammer (dunno, depends on what's available in game.)
Imp Crit
Power Attack
Divine Might
Divine Shield
Extra Turning
Extra Smiting
Extend Spell
Blind-Fight
--
EWF
Armor Skin
Great Smiting IV

I think that's quite enough Smiting, considering I'll add +120 damage to my smites and I'm already running +14 from Divine Might, in addition to everything else. I could always drop Armor Skin for an extra Smite or move all COT to epic and drop one pre-epic feat , but that seems wasteful. And if I understand pre-epic saves progression right, I get +3 Fort and Ref from two COT levels, whereas the last two Paladin levels to 20 would only get me +1 Fort?

I'm thinking about a rebuild for my drow cleric. Since the BG nerf, the cleric nerf, and the fixing of the bug which allowed me to have my reskinned Epic Dragon Knight (didn't realise it was a bug), I don't think I'm exagerating when I say I've probably been hit harder than anyone on the server, with the loss of 4 feats, 1 reskin, +10 to each save, 1 attack per round and a few ab. Not a massive problem rp wise, but the time is definitely right for the rebuild.

I'm looking at going from 23 cleric 2 BG 3 rogue to some other combination of those same 3 classes.
I need to have:

28 levels including:

17 levels of cleric
Trickery domain
At least 18 final charisma
At least 19 final wisdom, 20 if going for EDK
Epic Skill Focus spot
Battle rather than spell focus

I don't think there is room any more to have the EDK, but I'm open to builds with or without it.

Could anyone help me with the details? Thanks so much!

I've got the same problem Didi, I'm pretty sure bg levels are useless unless taken in large quantities now, maybe change bg for fighter. If you take 4 pre-epic you get your attack back and some nice bonus feats including weap spec.

If you want to dump a load of skills in spot you're gonna have to take 2 levels of rogue so you can get up to 20 skill points for epic skill focus, then take another at your last level to max it out along with tumble. That leaves you with 22 cleric which is pretty pointless. Maybe just settle for EDK, take 1 rogue and forget spot, your dragon can do all the eagle eye shiznia for you.

Get 20 wis and build up charisma as best you can and you still get the nice ac bonus from divine shield, but I think we're going to have to forget about epic saves =(

I'm wondering about the current changes and the old BG's build. Not that I'm complaining about the nerfs. Something had to be done to create new possibilities and such. So, I'm ok with it, even with low Divine Favor

(I'm not always a bawler).

And I'm talking about 16BG/2Rogue/12fighter. Still a good build ? Or do we have a hot alternative ?

Last edited by Travis on Sat, Oct 30 2010, 15:45 PM, edited 11 times in total.

Alright, so build improved. Here is my 21/6/1

STR 14 DEX 10 CON 10 WIS 16 INT 12(+2) CHA 14(+2)

1) Cleric (add to con +spell craft with cleric levels) Luck of Heroes/maximized spell
2)
3) Extend spell
4) +1 WIS
5)
6) Power attack
7)

+1 WIS
9) Divine shield
10)
11)
12) knockdown +1WIS
13)
14)
15) imp knockdown
16) +1CHA
17) Fighter Weapon focus (whatever, scim, warhammer, your choice)
18) imp crit, blind fight
19)
20) +1CHA weap spec
21) Epic weapon focus
22) Epic weapon spec
23) Cleric
24) +1CHA Prowess/Armor skin
25)
26)
27) Rogue (tumble, spot dump) Epic skill focus: spot
28) Cleric +1 CHA

STR 14 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 14 WIS 19 CHA 20

Skills invested: concentration 31 spellcraft 31 spot 30 tumble 30. Might want to change spellcraft to umd or whatever now there isn't a summon involved, unless you can work in a mummy dust.

Epic skill focus: spot + imp knockdown, just incase you're not happy with that much anti-sneaker stuff.

Obviously can be varied if you want, could change to 24/4/1, you'd be sacrificing epic weapon spec for an extra cleric feat and a little more to your spell durations. feats are yours for the choosing, this is just a basis to give you an idea.

number 8 is the coolest level, apparantly.

Don't go EDK without Epic Conjuration Focus, IMO. If you want a summon, take Mummy Dust instead. It now comes in all kinds of cool shapes. Greater Ruin is scarier, though.

I'd swap Luck of Heroes for Maximize Spell or Divine Might. I can't live without Maximized ability buffs, myself. Go with 8 Con and you'll get 20 Charisma, I guess. I agree with Travis's general idea, though.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the duration, never miind the EDK then. I find i never have room to take maximized spells in my spell book, but I guess that's down to what you fancy.

Didi wrote:

I'm looking at going from 23 cleric 2 BG 3 rogue to some other combination of those same 3 classes.

Try 23 Cleric/4 BG/ 1 Rogue?
STR 16
WIS 15 (Raise to 20)
CHA 16 (Raise to 18)

16 Cleric -> 4 BG -> 6 Cleric -> 1 Rogue -> 1 Cleric

You can nab EDK and ESF:Spot without a problem. 4 attacks per round @ 52 AB with WF and EWF feats. Aura of despair and better saves. The same 2d6 sneak die. Oh and a free casting of eagles splendor (if it's the same as the Harper's feat based one, it's stackable.)

alamut wrote:

I'm wondering about the current changes and the old BG's build.

Huh, what changed with BGs?

I realize it has no Blackguard, but the configuration Veh currently has still seems like the best option. You could try taking 4 Blackguard pre-epic for better BAB and the 4th attack, 21 Cleric and 3 Rogue. Your fourth attack will have a relatively low AB, though, so you won't be hitting much with it. Cleric and Blackguard simply don't complement eachother very well, so every level of Blackguard just gives you +1 to saves. Not really worth it, IMO.

From Travis' build I would take another couple Fighter levels in Epic instead of some of those Rogue levels, to take Epic Weapon Specialisation. 6th one at 27 for Discipline dump. Don't take Rogue level till Epic either, bad for BAB. Better be 16/4 at level 20 for 4 attacks now Divine Power is nerfed. End 21/6/1? Or 21/5/2 but I don't think there enough spare feats for that.

alamut wrote:

I'm wondering about the current changes and the old BG's build.

Huh, what changed with BGs?[/quote]

save boost is restricted to level, so 4 levels of bg will be limited to +4 saves regardless of a greater CHA modifier. changing the fighter levels to bg will mean you lose a feat to cleave, and also 3 feats that fighter gives. 4 feats for +4 on saves, probably not worth it. If you took only one level in rogue, you'd have to take it at level 27 so you can put the most you can into tumble and spot whilst still being able to take the epic skill focus in spot as your final feat. So yeah, 21/6/1

Wasn't the save cap introduced long ago though? Anyways, +4 to all saves and aura of despair makes it worth it for me. The only thing missing is the discipline dump at the end.

37 AB at the 4th attack is alright for PvM. And besides is it easy to lose one's BGness?

There updated it. I'm sure its possible to roleplay attempting to break whatever pacts you had with whatever demons gave you the powers.

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