AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The New Balance Changes (Questions/Comments)

I'm almost positive that they said they have that fixed and waiting to go in. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Tensers added AC that was overriden by Epic Mage Armor, so the AC comment is false.

And I'm still confused at to what your saying

8 strength 14 con pure wizard

Base Attack Bonus = 15
Maxed strength = 5 AB
Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Focus = 3 AB
Tensers = 10 AB
GMW = 5 AB
Bless/Aid = 2 AB

Total AB = 40 AB

HP
Base HP = 120
Maxed Con = 240
Total HP = 360

Your problem is not the spell, its incorrect gear setting/poor building.

The Spell even without the temp HP is still really good, and on a pure wizard you are only missing 3AB from the former iteration of the spell if you are correctly using the spell in combination with readily available potions which can be used prior to casting tensers.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Extra Attacks.

It is when you look at it correctly.

I built numerous testers ranging from 50 AB to 55AB and higher on the wizard scale.

The reported AB for those wizards where as follows.

50 45 50 45 40
And
55 50 55 50 45

Extra attacks are made on their own scale at maximum BAB scaling at -5.

Now a weapon Master has an AB scale with haste as follows

55 50 45 40 55

See the difference? A Weapon Master completely devoted to his art is actually worse than a Wizard when it came to hitting things.

Tensers was -never- meant to make Wizards into frontline meleers, the original iteration that went in was a mistake, that has now been corrected.

Mordenkainen's Disjunction performs the following when cast from a Scroll or Item -

On a Single Target - Breach of 6 Spells, followed by a Dispel Check on all remaining spells.
On a Group of Targets - Breach of 2 Spells, followed by a Dispel Check against two remaining spells.

Firstly, the Spell Breach;

Spell breach works in a simple manner. It looks at a list of spells (below), and in order removes either 6 (if single target) or 2 (if area effect). The spells have been written below, in order from first to last, of the spells that will be stripped by a Breach effect.

Greater Spell Mantle, Premonition, Spell Mantle, Shadow Shield, Greater Stoneskin, Ethereal Visage, Globe of Invulnerability, Energy Buffer, Greater Sanctuary, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Spell Resistance, Stoneskin, Lesser Spell Mantle, Mestil's Acid Sheath, Mind Blank, Elemental Shield, Protection from Spells, Protection from Elements, Resist Elements, Death Armor, Ghostly Visage, Endure Elements, Shadow Conjuration Mage Armor, Negative Energy Protection, Sanctuary, Mage Armor, Stone Bones, Shield, Shield of Faith, Lesser Mind Blank, Ironguts, Resistance.

Sorcerer / Wizard spells are Blue
Clerical spells are Green
Shared spells are Gold

I did not include Domain spells as Clerical.

As a result, these are the spells (in order) a cleric is at risk of losing from a Mordenkainen's Disjunction;
Greater Sanctuary - This spell provides the Greater Sanctuary effect, CL * 5 Temporary Hitpoints, 100% Spell Failure for CL / 6 Rounds.
Spell Resistance - This spell provides 11 + Caster Level spell resistance.
Stoneskin - This spell provides 10 / +5 Damage Reduction, until CL*10 (max 100) has been absorbed.
Protection vs Elements - This spell provides 30/- Resistance to Fire, Cold, Electrical, Sonic & Acid, until a maximum of 40 has been absorbed.
Resist Elements - This spell provides 20/- Resistance to Fire, Cold, Electrical, Sonic & Acid, until a maximum of 30 has been absorbed.
Endure Elements - This spell provides 10/- Resistance to Fire, Cold, Electrical, Sonic & Acid, until a maximum of 20 has been absorbed.
Negative Energy Protection - This spell provides immunity to Negative Energy Damage, Ability Drain, and Level Drain.
Shield of Faith - This spell provides up to +5 non-stacking Deflection AC.
Resistance - This spell provides +1 Saves for 1 Round.

Now, the Dispel check;

Note, despite descriptions, Dispel's DC is actually 12 + Caster Level, and not 11 + Caster Level, as has been reported on the NWN Wiki.

Therefore, the following shows the likelyhood of a Caster Level X Cleric, Wizard, or Sorcerer having any given spell stripped by the Dispel portion of a Scroll Cast Mordenkainen's Disjunction;

Code:

CL - DC - Ave%
-6   18   100% 
07   19    95%
08   20    90%
09   21    85%
10   22    80%
11   23    75%
12   24    70%
13   25    65%
14   26    60%
15   27    55%
16   28    50%
17   29    45%
18   30    40%
19   31    35%
20   32    30%
21   33    25%
22   34    20%
23   35    15%
24   36    10%
25   37     5%
26+  38     0%

As can be seen - anyone with 26 or more caster levels is immune to having their spells stripped by the Dispel portion of Mordenkainen's Disjunction, simply because the Dispel check is insufficient to break through. Alongside, a cleric with 21 levels only has a 1/4 (25%) chance of having each spell removed (The roll is made on a per-spell basis). It's only when you get down to CL 16 that true danger starts to show as it's stripping at an average rate of 50% or more.

Those are the facts. Make your own assessment as to how powerful a Scroll Cast Mordenkainen's Disjunction is against a Cleric.

I can tell the developers behind this have prepared for many arguments... *applaud* Anyways, I have nothing to say on the matter aside from the fact that there are loop-holes to everything. You just gotta figure out how to work /with/ the changes.

Wait.. Does a Mord Scroll have Dispell and Spell Breach and both happen? Or does dispell have to be successful before spell breach happens?

It does the Breach, and then the Dispel. I realized that I pasted the paragraphs in the wrong order just now. Fixing. The Breach does not need to breach anything for the Dispel to trigger, though.

MoshingChris wrote:

Dark Immolation wrote:

Extra Attacks.

Tensers was -never- meant to make Wizards into frontline meleers, the original iteration that went in was a mistake, that has now been corrected.

What about not being able to use any items? What's that about?

Read a bit. Posted. Tested it all. Back, Didn't really read anything. Here ya go.