AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Earth is still the word for dirt and sod and that which is the ground.

Insofar as comman usage goes I've notice some severe reactions to appropriation of Gods names and such for use as points of excitement or exclamation.

'Tymora's tit's that was a big fish!' for example would seem to me to be an apt use of an FR diety in general slang. I've had some IC reactions that were not so happy on that though.

'Southies' was another term that I and a few other players I've met used to refer to poor folks in Cordor. Not just those from the South of course but I'm sure the slang would stick.

Would be nice to find some that were more general in their application as well. I mean, not every man in the street will know the dogma of every god. I'd expect paldins to be shown as much fear as respect by the common folks. So, slang terms for paldins and war priests that are not diety specific?

Didi wrote:

From Greek:

Amazon, ambrosia, arachnid, atlas, attic (relating to Athenian architecture), bias (one of the seven sages of Greece), cathartic, cosmos, chronology, draconian... you get the drift.

Rather than make these words taboo, I'd think of them as a goldmine for some homebrew plaguarised mythology. Mythology doesn't have to be true, in any real sense.

There's too many "this world" references which are so ingrained and the roots so obscure, that though its a fun game for the forums, its not something anyone should be a pedant about in game.

Agreed.

Amazon is one I'd outright replace. Well, not so much replace as not use, because it refers to a mythical tribe and it doesn't really have a general use even in modern English, as far as I know.

I think there was some minor/dead deity of time named Kronos in the realms, but I'm not sure. Some adventure module features a lost shrine to the forgotten god, or something? So that's easy enough.

Draconian derives, of course, from the Time of Dragons when draconic masters ruled the primitive humans, dealing severe punishment for minor transgressions. Today, even the dragons that aren't considered depraved and cruel (the metallics) are treated with suspicion due to their inhumanely strict moral expectations.

As for champagne, it would be cool to check which place is the most renowned for its sparkling wine, and use that as a general term. I bet there is something to be found in Aurora's All Realms Catalogue, so I'll check when I'm on my PC.

What about popular terms used by English speaks that are in different languages like touché, avant-garde, de facto, karma and gesundheit?

There are a few Amia/Faerun specific terms I see used and that I use on certain characters:

Furies = Followers of any of the Gods of Fury.
Tallers = People of Human/Elven height (Used by the racist shorties of Amia).
Garagocious = Destructive (In reference to Garagos, god of destruction).

That's all I can think of right now.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bitch Queen: Lolth

That's a bit lost in translation since "Bitch Queen" is a very common term to refer to Umberlee. In fact, it's seen as bad luck to say her true name out loud so Bitch Queen is used fairly often.

Dwagin wrote:

She's a Sharesshan - "Girl who likes other girls"

This can't really apply, as at least 80% of Amian females fall under this category, regardless of their deity.

Yea, Umberlee's other titles are "The Bitch Queen" & "Queen of the Depths"

If anyone said "Bitch Queen" in game I'd totally assume it was Umberlee, and so it follows my characters would.

Anyway, sorry for the derailment.

Well the fun of this thread is completely removed for me by two stuffy lore-men.

Some of what'll make the Amia lexicon unique is sufficient ties to the Lore to be accurate, but also with enough context to the land to be appropriate too.

I was under the assumption what was wanted was Words with meanings that are used in common conversation on the isle of Amia.

I have to be honest here and say that the usual bout of Faerunian words aren't used for the same things generally. Thus I don't see why some words used on Amia should be changed just because they have a Faerunian equlivent.

Bitch Queen for example. Umberlee really doesn't have enough of a presence on Amia to justify it being used as a nickname for her. Heck, till this moment I never even knew it was a nickname for her. Always used it for Lolth, and I'm pretty sure a large percentage of people also used it from Lolth.

Quote:

What about popular terms used by English speaks that are in different languages like touché, avant-garde, de facto, karma and gesundheit?

I nearly mentioned this before, lots of words for companions. hombre, ese, comrade, cohort, and the like..there are of course more than come to mind.

also you missed my favourite one, Coup d'état =D coup de gras following swiftly in second, I enjoy when that one pops up ingame xD

all of the above can be solved with english. touché and coup de gras being exceptions imho...can't exactly run up to them and shout !sneak attack foo'! >_>

found an interesting one, the word crystal comes from a combo of ice, and a general greek term for the rocks they observed. cryo being the modern equivilent to the ice prefix, the original greek would be prenounced something like (krustallos)

and apparently quartz pretty much means 'hard' in all its original languages.

chrono is a prefix for time, and i never knew they named choosing one side over another after a greek sage O-o

and no I have not seen anyone call anyone else 'ese' in game >_> just trying to make myself somewhat clearer...

since I am failing so very much to stay on topic, last thing

Quote:

"Crusade" is particularly annoying, but I've yet to think of a generic enough a replacement.

conquest. (or war?)

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bitch Queen for example. Umberlee really doesn't have enough of a presence on Amia to justify it being used as a nickname for her. Heck, till this moment I never even knew it was a nickname for her. Always used it for Lolth, and I'm pretty sure a large percentage of people also used it from Lolth.

My character Johanna says it a lot. She might not have any followers, but Amia being surrounded by sea it is something that likely weighs on the minds of the inhabitants, I'd imagine.

Even though she may not have many followers it wouldn't necessarily mean everyone just ignores her. Many might even pray to her on their journeys to and from Ruathym via Gus' boats. I sure would!

AlphaWaves wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bitch Queen for example. Umberlee really doesn't have enough of a presence on Amia to justify it being used as a nickname for her. Heck, till this moment I never even knew it was a nickname for her. Always used it for Lolth, and I'm pretty sure a large percentage of people also used it from Lolth.

My character Johanna says it a lot. She might not have any followers, but Amia being surrounded by sea it is something that likely weighs on the minds of the inhabitants, I'd imagine.

Even though she may not have many followers it wouldn't necessarily mean everyone just ignores her. Many might even pray to her on their journeys to and from Ruathym via Gus' boats. I sure would!

Well quite a few of the people whom I rped with as Xal for the last 3 or 4 years used it for Lolth. As I had no idea it was a nickname for Umberlee he certaintly didn't know thats a name Umberlee is known by.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I was under the assumption what was wanted was Words with meanings that are used in common conversation on the isle of Amia.

I have to be honest here and say that the usual bout of Faerunian words aren't used for the same things generally. Thus I don't see why some words used on Amia should be changed just because they have a Faerunian equlivent.

Bitch Queen for example. Umberlee really doesn't have enough of a presence on Amia to justify it being used as a nickname for her. Heck, till this moment I never even knew it was a nickname for her. Always used it for Lolth, and I'm pretty sure a large percentage of people also used it from Lolth.

The OP explicitly stated that this wasn't a campaign to outlaw or change words commonly used in the game, nor is it a catalog for your character's own personal vernacular. If you'd enjoy a thread like that better you can make one. This thread was simply meant to be a fun exercise, and perhaps a vehicle to create alternate, lore and setting specific worlds to prevent the breaking of immersion for those particularly sensitive to the etymology of words, and to add a little flavor to your character's speech.

As far as "Bitch Queen" goes, you may not use it and there may not be many followers of Umberlee on the isle, but it doesn't make it any less true to lore that it is in fact Umberlee who is referred to by that title, and any seafaring NPCs would most definitely refer to her as that when paying tribute, as she directly affects a large aspect of their lives. Too many people forget that Faerun is truly a polytheistic society, and for the common man to disrespect any of the gods by not paying homage to them when involving themselves in something they preside over is asking for some horrible misfortune to befall you.

I agree with the polytheistic thing you're saying, 'lanna. Most people forget it completely! Even I sometimes do... :oops:

And I think that polytheistic is a totally great word to change with some Faerunian contextual replacements. Polytheistic in the modern world has a bad turn to it not to mention how it more describes those who are polytheistic. I hardly hear polytheistic believers calling themselves polytheistic. Similar to how it can be an insult to be called "Godless," perhaps it could be an insult to some to be too polytheistic, or to some to not be polytheistic enough.

I enjoy the fact that Holy Cow still works in FR as it can refer to summoned divine cows and minotaurs.

Okay, I'm gonna give this thread a miss then. Ignore most of my posts, as I clearly don't get it.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Oh I thought of one.

Can 'O' Faith: An architectural paladin in full plate armor.

I'm assuming you mean "archetypical"? Although, to be fair,"architectural" does have interesting subcurrents...

-VK

There is the old American term "Mexican Standoff" which theoretically could be termed as an "orcish gambit"

a "Napoleon Complex" Could possibly be rephrased "Halfling Ambitions"

Though honestly I'm beating my head against the wall with that one...

A Mexican Standoff is clearly simply a "Stalemate", in the Red Knight's terminology.

ok, what about something for 'Showdown at the O.K. Corral'.

We call that "Good Evening".

Also known as Amia Forest

TormakSaber wrote:

We call that "Good Evening".

this really made me laugh

Logicality wrote:

Gypsy is another word that doesn't translate well into this world. It finds its origins in the misconception that the Romani people came from Egypt, a place that clearly doesn't exist on Toril. However, the (unfair) stereotype attributed to gypsies could still easily be used on people on Toril: cheaters, con artists, nomads, exotic folk, etc.

Watch out for Brandies in Waterdeep. They'll cut your purse before your eyes and convince you it was your idea.

Might be even better used with a play on Mask... two-faced?

Ah ha, yes, I've encountered this before, but it slipped my memory. It was absolutely necessary, imo, for a brainy bard to reference gypsies and gypsy culture at some point, and that point inevitably did come, and so I thought to myself, "Would they be called gypsies?" I knew the Egypt appropriation and that it wouldn't fly, so I alternated to their more cultural name - the Romani, or Roma.

Which lead me to the obvious play on words of Roma and roam, indicating the stereotypically nomadic lifestyle of the gypsy.

Thus, I referred to gypsies as "the roma people" or "the roaming people", otherwise known as "roma" or "roama", leaving gypsy completely unstated by keeping more or less intact their cultural name. I never bothered to work up an etymological reason for why "the travelling and dark artists from the middle mountains and distant, fertile plains" were actually called roma, but the romani-roam connection worked just as well in the imagined language of Common as it does in English.

So now any time my PCs reference gypsies, they are not called gypsies, they are simply called Roma, or more colloquially, the roamers.

Didi wrote:

There's too many "this world" references which are so ingrained and the roots so obscure, that though its a fun game for the forums, its not something anyone should be a pedant about in game.

Didi is absolutely right, and this whole process here is just a fun (well, for some people) exercise, and there's no intent to be pedantic about our use of the IG language. And in fact, it is a definite challenge to attempt to solve the "problem" (and it is only a minor intellectual problem with no lasting, harmful, or even noticeable consequences!) of an unsuitable word/phrase while at the same time creating a substitute that is easily grasped and understood by even the casual player.

I point to the gypsy case above. Calling them Brandies or Callies is a great suggestion, and I absolutely see them being referred to by those names in some areas (hin communities in particular using Brandies and regions in sensible proximity to Calimsham travellers using Callies), but it can cause players less familiar with the deities some confusion. However, in my opinion, simply referring to them as "roamers" conjures the archetypal image of the nomad, in this case the nomadic artist community, which among its many associations has a very good chance of hitting the "gypsy" bullseye. Especially to smarty-pants players who immediately make the mental roam/Roma/Romani connection.

Of course, people are different, and some may make the connection more easily with Brandies or Callies, but I wouldn't, personally. But then, I'm much less grounded and certain of IG lore than the peoples I opened this thread up to play around in, and I'm loving what I see coming out here. Even in the posts that are somewhat exterior to the core discussion.

diamond stems back to latin via france, through the word diamant, and adamant, which leads me to believe adamantine is some referance to an actual substance.

also mercury should probably be refered to as quicksilver for historical bonus. roamers works pretty well, the modern day equivilent being travelers, one does not simply walk toward gypsys and call them such, for some reason it is deemed racist...don't ask me why it makes zero sense and its just the system gone mad.

lord believe it or not does not stem from the bible directly, it actually has something to do with bread, and is(was) a generic term for the head of the household.

I also just found out terrorism was a term used as early as the 1800's. still don't entirely agree with its over use ingame...

Adamantine is actually a reference to the definition of Adamant.

Also 'Watch out for Brandies in Waterdeep...' wouldn't really work, there's a hell of a lot more people than "Brandies" that'll cut your purse in Waterdeep.

Glyph wrote:

lord believe it or not does not stem from the bible directly, it actually has something to do with bread, and is(was) a generic term for the head of the household.

I don't see why it would come from the Bible, its got origins before that. God has names which are mentioned in the Bible but is commonly referred to as "The Lord" because his names were so holy to speak them was Taboo.

I don't often think of the roots of words often but this has proved to be an interesting topic. My take on many of the words which come from different languages is thus... they are from different languages. I have seen people treat Cormyr as an Equivilent of France (I think its a lot more Arthurian and idealistic than France ever was, but there you go), so words like Coup d'etat, Riposte, Touché, Coup de Grace would come eventually from the Cormyran language which due to the fact that they are romanticized in many stories around Toril and have many trade links have stuck in the common trade language as it creeps around the world.

Words which have a link to real world people are a little harder to do and there are quite a lot of them. Caesarian for example is thought to have come from Caesar even though it probably didn't. August came from Augustus Caeser. So these words would perhaps need to be remade with a little bit of history behind them so that they fit. Some may not even have to change at all... just change the history to fit. My Example, Stoic.

"The "Stoic Philosophy" was first pioneered in the early years of the Dale reckoning calender by a Priest of Tyr named Idris of Northvale. With the growing relationship between the humans and the Elves in the area around the dalelands Idris perceived several traits that he admired about the elves and which would be indicative of the Faith of Tyr.

He retreated into isolation while he meditated on his philosophy and two years later began teaching his philosophy in the center of a village named Stoanne's Pride. The Village has long since been lost to antiquity, destroyed by an Orc raid but the name lives on as his particular branch of philosophy and behavior became known as Stoic philosophy. To this day, some of its tenants are seen as key by Paladin orders across the length and breadth of Toril and the word Stoic has been incorporated into modern day common."

It could be argued that what we are reading on our screens is merely a rough translation from Faerunian common to Earth common (english), and that anything you type into the game is being translated into it's Faerunian equivalent, so, arguing lexicons is pointless.

:twisted:

I won't make that argument, however.

The thread is fun and gives some pause for thought about what I am typing.

Might enhance the flavor of this world.

Beat you to that argument, actually. Pays to read both the original post closely as well as the post it came from in an entirely different thread.

Two of my favorites for insulting dwarves:

Milk drinker
Bearded Gnome

Saw in game today an example of what the OP originally meant, I think...

One character described another as having his hair in a mohawk. Obviously, there were never any Mohawk indians in Faerun.

How about referring to that hairstyle as an Uthgart?

Yep, that is an example. You could call it Uthgardt, but do people really think of Uthgardt was wearing mohawks? Is that really an immediate association?

There are two ways to approach these sometimes - if you don't create a new word, you create a new etymology that is clever and easily understood. Like, why would a mohawk be called a mo-hawk even thought the Mohawk tribe never existed?

...or perhaps they did. And it was an Uthgardt tribe.

Venificius and Disciplis.

Well, it is certainly easier to find discrepancies with common current slang. So I'll choose something easy that will be fun to argue.

The word 'Cool' used as slang in Amia as we use it currently.

The use could be justified by an Amnish character (or a character from another desert filled region of Faerun) because in Amn it is a good thing to find a place that is cool, or to be cool. So it could be argued that the entymology grew in Amn for 'Cool' to mean 'good' or 'nice' in general.

Edit: Okay. Another reply that doesn't adhere to exactly what is asked in the topic.

If you, like me, find it awkward to use class names in RP to refer to what you or another character does, I like using a few easy substitutes.. although I could use a better monk one.

Barbarian --> Rager
Bard --> Troubadour
Cleric --> Priest
Druid --> Wilder
Fighter --> Warrior
Monk --> Speed Demon
Paladin --> Knight
Wizard/Sorceror --> Mage
Ranger --> Warden
Rogue --> Scout/Sneak

avoiding 'cool' or kool as I instinctivly write it in every case anywhere anytime...is kinda tricky, as is awesome, i tend to stick with excelent and, alrighty then, though the latter could be seen as ripping off a certain animal detective...

I thought of another one that totally boggles the mind, music. musical terms to be precise. folk is doable, as is rock and roll if you put enough emphesis on the emotions, but classical for one is one for debate when regarding amia, and FR in general. as is Jazz, if everyone in cordor started clicking their fingers, and gnome AM came out from the alleyways blowing on a trumpet like device, thats jazz...but is it?

more simply terms like machine head (the twisty bits on the headstock of guitars, lutes, etc that tune the string) and such would seam to not apply, or be different at the least.

I wonder what they used to call machine heads...*finds out via google.*

ed: tuning pegs...I guess 'pegs' work. still the point is valid.

*Blinks* I've always called them tuning pegs ...

I seriously doubt they have anything resembling modern music styles on Faerûn.

The Light Hand and Dark Fist.

A reference to Torm defeating Bane in the ToT as an alternative to "David and Goliath".

Possibly. Though is there a more appropriate analog in FR of "small man" versus "gigantic man"? Or, for example, mortal versus deity and mortal wins?

IronAngel wrote:

I seriously doubt they have anything resembling modern music styles on Faerûn.

What do you feel they have? I realize this is outside of the scope of the thread, but you know it is a matter dear to my heart for reasons.

Finder and Moander?

I still like Torm and Bane reference better. 1) Because Torm was arguablely a small pickins demigod going against a (weakened) Greater Deity and 2), because I'm biased to Torm.

Yossarin wrote:

IronAngel wrote:

I seriously doubt they have anything resembling modern music styles on Faerûn.

What do you feel they have? I realize this is outside of the scope of the thread, but you know it is a matter dear to my heart for reasons.

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Well, we know for a fact that there used to be, and now again is, a tradition of bardic colleges who each have their own distinguishing characteristics, and "real" bards are expected to study all the classical traditions. So yeah, there are definetely different styles. But I think we're operating in the field of what we'd call classical (or more accurately, art) music, here. Not popular music. The borders between folk and classical music are probably blurred in FR: there's a finer, more proper way of playing similar music the riff raff play in their taverns, but the instruments are probably pretty much the same. Royal fanfares etc. aside, music seems very much centered around the figure of the bard: there are ensembles, but a single bard is all it takes to play both the finer traditions of music and the popular folk tunes.

Either way, music is not solely entertainment in the Realms. Popular music made its breakthrough because of radio and records, mediums of communication. But in the Realms, music is the medium. It preserves history, relates news and comments on contemporary issues (which isn't different from popular music, of course). I doubt the common minstrel goes for experimentation and musical brilliance. I see more emphasis on lyrics, probably sung to a (variation of a) traditional tune people know. Besides, if the list of instruments in Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue features every typical instrument, we don't have stuff like modern guitars, pianos, trumpets or drum kits. While the idea of a smoky jazz club or a sweaty rock act aren't impossible in FR, they do seem a little forced.

If only we were in Eberron. Then we could have anything, as long as it was steampunk. >_>

I seriously doubt that ... contraption would work without magic.

That would sooooo be the abomination of a gnomish bard!

Yurell wrote:

I seriously doubt that ... contraption would work without magic.

It could work with magic... a single cantrip heating the water... YES!!! *gnomish glee*

Ouch!

The word is German in origin.

Faerun solution:

Well we need something that deals with pain.. Like Loviatar.. But shouting Loviatar is too long.
So maybe the cry of painc an be 'Lovi!' .. Or the like.

Only issue with that is it sort of implies you may enjoy that pain. Other solutions?

Rosencrantz wrote:

Only issue with that is it sort of implies you may enjoy that pain. Other solutions?

Well it could mean that you are calling out her name in a curse. Short for "Damn the bitch, Loviatar". And you'd likely shorten it to Lovi as her full name said out loud could be equated to a curse, I suppose.

Ilma! or Ilm! Might be a good one too, short for Illmater, like you're crying out for him to ease you pain.

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