AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

So, one day, a few weeks ago, sitting around in the town square, and a character asks the general loiterers if there was anyone who could tell him what a certain ring's properties were. My character piped up, said she could, and he handed her the ring. I looked at it, and although I didn't tell him the name of said Item, since I don't believe my character could possibly know the name of every magical item out there, I did tell him the general properties of the item. Only to receive a double slash ooc that my character couldn't have possibly known these things since the ring was a plot item. I responded in kind, saying that I guessed all of those lore points I took were a waste. The experience farked me off, really, with the OOC thing and the insinuation that I metagamed.

My questions are: In Identifying an item, especially for someone who is experienced in magic, why wouldn't my character know what properties an item contained, especially if game mechanics let me ID it. Should I just discount that? Should this happen again, then what would my response be?

Game mechanics are the truth is my stance on these matters.

In PnP, identifying magical properties usually required the use of an identify spell or similar magic. Lore about items could typically tell about its history. 'This sword was wielded by King so and so, used to slay the evil baron Such and such.'

However, game mechanics here simply deem otherwise. You read a bunch of books, and can simply tell what properties magic items have. Unless a DM deems otherwise according to plot, etc.

These are pretty much the conclusions I came to. Although I have played PNP, it was back in the days of THAC0, and things in this video game are necessarily different.

Nivo wrote:

In PnP, identifying magical properties usually required the use of an identify spell or similar magic.

For the lower magic items (in PnP), usually a Detect Magic spell along with a Spellcraft check is enough to discern the properties. Higher magic items usually require the Identify spell, a bottle of fine wine, an owls feather, and a pearl worth at least 100GP, oh, and four hours heh.
But yeah, DM's make the call on what's necessary for a particular item of note.

I say if they're that concerned about someone knowing about an item that's not supposed to be known, it should be written out clearly in the description text under the notion of an OOC marker, such as ((OOC: This item can only be identified with a spellcraft DC of 30)) or something of that nature.

According to Kudark, my ex-girlfriend is apparently a higher magic item.

What I generally tend to do is use lore like Nivo said. To tell the item's origins and perhaps give a vague description of what it was originally used for. If my character also happens to have Spellcraft, then I would go into more specifics if asked.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

According to Kudark, my ex-girlfriend is apparently a higher magic item.

LOL
Most women in general my friend, and then you never know if the Identify even worked, hell, they don't even know.

If the person asked you to ID it but didn't want you tell them magic properties, what did they want you to do exactly?

Isaiah wrote:

If the person asked you to ID it but didn't want you tell them magic properties, what did they want you to do exactly?

To tell you the truth that is what I wondered...

Yeah, I think this falls into the game engine category. If your character can ID the item, then your character can know all about the item... or at least what the description window tells you.

Also, the DC to ID an item is directly related to that items value. I believe it's possible through the toolset to adjust the value of plot items (since they can't be sold to merchants, there's no chance to abuse this for more gold) and hence, make the DC higher. So, if they didn't want you ID'ing it without a certain level of lore, you wouldn't be able to. I could be mistaken about this, though.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Lore

55 lore - ID items worth 12 million.

Not sure if it goes higher.

My question is this.

Without identifying an item - wouldn't the magical effects still work when putting it on? I mean, it may be a ring of debilitation, or a ring of awesome-cosmic-power! But just donning the contraption would ignite the magical qualities of the ring no?

That's just an illogicality I spotted in the whole unidentified magic items don't work when not identified.

The Peacock wrote:

My question is this.

Without identifying an item - wouldn't the magical effects still work when putting it on? I mean, it may be a ring of debilitation, or a ring of awesome-cosmic-power! But just donning the contraption would ignite the magical qualities of the ring no?

That's just an illogicality I spotted in the whole unidentified magic items don't work when not identified.

That's more a game engine thing. Technically, yes, items still work when unidentified and you can attempt to activate them blindly.

If you examine an un ID'ed item and properties show up, you know the properties. If you choose not to, that is your roleplay. If an item's description says anything, it might be best to pay attention.

Ah! So that does work in PnP... Cool. I thought it didn't.

Well that rests me at ease a bit more. I remember there was a belt you could wear on Baldur's Gate - if you wore it you could never take it off... It's best to ID things and not don them blindly.

Just to add my two bits about one of my favorite skills:

With enough Spellcraft you can pretty much identify all magical properties of any item. that doesn't really mean anything as Lore tells you that instead in NWN, but in DM events it's come in handy. For plot items, the "properties" aren't always listed or put on the item, but Spellcraft would still be able to tell you what it actually does (if your skill is high enough and DM allows).

Difference between Lore and Spellcraft is that in a lot of cases items have a detailed discription, with some kinda basic lore about them attached. I tend to think that the lore in the description is the kind of knowledge Identify also reveals, as well as properties of said item.

Add's flavor.

The Peacock wrote:

Ah! So that does work in PnP... Cool. I thought it didn't.

Well that rests me at ease a bit more. I remember there was a belt you could wear on Baldur's Gate - if you wore it you could never take it off... It's best to ID things and not don them blindly.

Cursed items have been one of the best part ofs my DnD experiences. Too bad NWN is not suited for those.

Think Nethack, and you know how I like my items. Oh how awesome it would be to see some generic Nethack items as easter eggs on Amia. (Nethack being an old but FUCKYEAHAWESOME Roquelike (text based dungeoncrawler) game loosely based on 1st edition DnD)

Remove Curse is pretty much the most important spell you can have, and scrolls of identify are the best scroll you can find.

Silvarus wrote:

The Peacock wrote:

Ah! So that does work in PnP... Cool. I thought it didn't.

Well that rests me at ease a bit more. I remember there was a belt you could wear on Baldur's Gate - if you wore it you could never take it off... It's best to ID things and not don them blindly.

Cursed items have been one of the best part ofs my DnD experiences. Too bad NWN is not suited for those.

There is at least one readily available "cursed" item in Amia. And in Wyvern Crown there are a few I think. In any case, it's fully possible with NWN mechanics, it's just not implemented often nor should is it really worth it on a persistent server outside of DM events. People would complain that they can't be arsed to go through the RP to get rid of it, or search for ways to. And when they would finally get rid of it, it would likely spread through common knowledge which items are to be avoided.

Could always randomly make the tasty random-generated loot cursed though >_> But still, I don't think it adds that much to RP beyond a gimmick.

I know at least one truly cursed item on Amia....only one way to get rid of the dang thing.

It would be an awesome change to have some cursed - uncursed - blessed mechanics and having bestow curse affect worn items, but it would be impossible to expect people to adapt to such a huge change on how loot works.

Best left for event items... Especially since a cursed item may become quite awesome once the curse has been removed.

Touch anything dealing with mages/clerics?

On Amia?!

Stone the heretic!!!

Isaiah wrote:

I know at least one truly cursed item on Amia....only one way to get rid of the dang thing.

I -HATED- that thing. Took me the better part of a week for my character to find out how to get rid of it. I loved the idea, though. Kudos to whichever Dev put that in.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Touch anything dealing with mages/clerics?

On Amia?!

Stone the heretic!!!

Stop complaining in every topic. IT's annoying.

There's this little guy called Sarcasm I'd like you to meet, Tormie. I see you're familiar with his friend, Exaggeration.

Relevant question: There would be no way to show the properties of an item in NWN with it still being Unidentified, right? I imagine that's hardcoded.

No, there's not. If you know the properties, it's not very unidentified anymore, is it?

I think Tormak gets sarcasm! AWESOME!

I enjoy identifications.

Identification and Lore

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